SPDIF and Computer to Receiver

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mykel

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
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Speakers: Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 (i plan on getting a receiver, new sub, and center channel)

Projected Mobo: P4R800-VM
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-150&depa=1

Accessories: Asus AV/S Bracket (for the S-Video Out)
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-211&depa=1

for now i'm going to connect my HTPC to my PC's audigy 2 platinum (using either RCA or SPDIF). however, when i upgrade my speaker system, i want to get 5.1 [for movies, not games] from my HTPC to my receiver to my speakers.

is the SPDIF in the mobo capable of 5.1 or are all SPDIF's inherently capable of 5.1? is SPDIF patented so that only Sony and Panasonic receivers have it?

what alternative ways are there for sending surround sound from a HTPC to a receiver? Keep in mind that i want to keep this in a small case (size is an issue, no Audigies) Are there optical out/in PCI cards?
sorry if many of these questions have been asked before. i've searched the forum and didn't find everything that i need. plus i just want to make sure when money is involved. :)
 
The digital output on the motherboard should send the Dolby Digital signal from DVD's to your receiver just fine. How were you planning on hooking up the Klipsch Promedias with the receiver?
 
Don't buy an over rated Audigy 2 Platinum if you already have 5.1 SPDIF.
And buy real speakers with your receiver. Not PC speakers.
 
A Chaintech AV-710 should give you a s/pdif for cheap, if your current MB doesn't have one onboard. I also agree that you should get real speakers. What receiver are you getting?
 
mykel said:
is the SPDIF in the mobo capable of 5.1 or are all SPDIF's inherently capable of 5.1?
Click to expand...

S/PDIF is the method for carrying the digital signal. The actual connector you plug in to is either optical TOSlink or a normal RCA jack. When playing DVDs (and other pre-encoded stuff), the DVD player software gives you the option of passing the pre-encoded 5.1 digital signal on to the receiver, rather than decoding it. So, yes, any mobo with an S/PDIF will be able to output a digital 5.1 signal as long as you have the software set to pass it through. Unless you have an nForce motherboard with the SoundStorm chipset, everything else will output a digital two channel signal. Last I checked, SoundStorm was still the only chipset that did realtime encoding, but something else may have come out just recently.

what alternative ways are there for sending surround sound from a HTPC to a receiver?
Click to expand...

If your receiver has discreet analog inputs, you can hook it up that way. Takes a lot of cords and looks messy though :p

Keep in mind that i want to keep this in a small case (size is an issue, no Audigies) Are there optical out/in PCI cards?
Click to expand...

There are a lot of them, but I can't say I've tried any of them. M-Audio's Revolution 5.1 looks fairly small, but if size is an issue you should stick with a mobo with an S/PDIF header. Then you only have to worry about a small back plate connector, rather than a full card.
 
ptweasel said:
If your receiver has discreet analog inputs, you can hook it up that way. Takes a lot of cords and looks messy though :p
Click to expand...

However, unless you have soundstorm, it is the only way to get multichannel sound in gaming, or any other sounds not encoded to DD. For this reason, it would be a good idea to make multichannel analog inputs a required feature in your receiver shopping.
 
GodsMadClown said:
However, unless you have soundstorm, it is the only way to get multichannel sound in gaming, or any other sounds not encoded to DD. For this reason, it would be a good idea to make multichannel analog inputs a required feature in your receiver shopping.
Click to expand...

Not to mention SACD and DVD audio ;)

BillR
 
so long story short, SPDIF works for sending 5.1.

SirOwnzAlot said:
Don't buy an over rated Audigy 2 Platinum if you already have 5.1 SPDIF
Click to expand...
i had it many months before i even planned to get an HTPC so i'm just rollin with it for now ;)
i'm not going to get an audigy for the HTPC. i'm just going to use the P4R800-VM's SPDIF to send the audio to my future receiver (whatever it may be).

GodsMadClown said:
I also agree that you should get real speakers. What receiver are you getting?
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i'm not sure about what receiver i'm going to get. i've been eyeing the phase technology speakers. i hear the sub is supposed to be really good for under 500$. and the Phase's TEAC satillites are also supposed to be great. so those are what i was thinking about for a sound system. the klipsch speakers i've had for a while. i'm a college student so i'm upgrading one thing at a time. :)

what's a good cable company for a SPDIF cable. i need about 10ft. some linkage would be awesome.:D

any suggestions for a receiver? i was looking at marantz but i'm not sure if the money is worth it. i think the TEAC's are ~100W each.

are there any quality mobo's (ie Asus) with S-Video and SPDIF?

thanks to everyone's help thus far!! :D


*****
EDIT: the phase technology sats are actually called Teatro not Teac. woops.
 
Don't pay attention to wattage numbers. I would take Marantz's entry level unit over anything that Teac makes any day. Look at acessories4less.com for refurb Marantz action. That's where I got my SR5200. They are the sole authorized internet retailer of refurb Marantz equipment.

Slow down on the speaker purchase. Think big picture for a moment. What is the total budget for the whole rig? What are you willing to spend in total? Speakers should make up about two-thirds of that budget. Amplification, source and interconnects should take up the reamaining third, in about that order of importance. You can get some excellent computer source components for very little money.
 
isn't buying a refurbed electonic good a little risky?

budget? not sure. 500$ for a sub. receiver: <$400.

i figure i can get by with a receiver and sub and just use my current klipsch satellites for now. i know some of you will gasp at the idea, but hey, it'll do for now. :)
 
Anyone have any personal experience with the Yamaha HTR-5750?

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTR-5750.htm

I found some places that sell it for cheap.
$279.95
http://www.bestbuyplasma.com/plasma/Product.asp_X_SKU_Y_HTR5750_Z_REF_Y_DEALTIME
$259.85
http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-shopping.asp?id=964594435&rf=dt&dfdate=08_22_2004
I located these two links through http://www2.shopping.com/xPO-Yamaha_HTR_5750. They seem to be reputable stores.

I'm still looking at the marantz receivers but I'm not seeing a reasonably priced (<$400) one with DDPL IIx and DTS-ES.
http://www.accessories4less.com/Amazing/branditems.asp?CartId=6034525QGHCQ27-EVEREST-5&BC=MARANTZ&BN=Marantz&Cc=RECEIVER&tpc=&CN=Receivers
 
mykel said:
Anyone have any personal experience with the Yamaha HTR-5750?
.........
Click to expand...

I say the 5750 looks like an excellent choice. I've had the older model, the HTR-5250, for the last 4 years and it's performed perfectly. Comparing that 5750's stats and pics to my 5250, they look almost identical, except my 5250 is 5.1 and doesn't have component switching. Yamaha's sound quality is many steps ahead of the cheaper crap like Sony, JVC, AIWA, etc. Personally, I got hooked on Yamaha the first time I hooked up my 5250 and listened.

* * One important note though * *
When I purchased my Yamaha receiver 4 years ago, I found out that Yamaha only warranties it's units if you buy from an authorized sellers, which were listed on Yamaha's site. Now, I don't know if it is still this way today, but you might want to investigate it. If so, you could still get the receiver from a place like one of the stores you listed for those great low prices, but an extended warranty might not hurt (I rarely suggest extended warranties). Then again, it is Yamaha and they build their stuff to last forever, so it's up to you.

*Edit/add in*
I just checked Yamaha's site and this is their wording:
"All transactions must be done through the authorized Yamaha dealer network. Any purchase made from an unauthorized dealer/retailer voids the Yamaha manufacturer's warranty."
 
GodsMadClown said:
What is your total budget? One number. $900?
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Ya, 900$ tops. I'm only looking at buying a sub and a receiver now. So, 900$ for those two items.

This is the sub i was looking at getting:
http://www.phasetech.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cat=product_information&subcat=power_series&child=27

I need a lot of bass. For music and movies. So I want something that hits hard and loud. :D

Badger_sly said:
"All transactions must be done through the authorized Yamaha dealer network. Any purchase made from an unauthorized dealer/retailer voids the Yamaha manufacturer's warranty."
Click to expand...
Damn. I figured that would be the case. If I end up getting that receiver, I'll get the extended warranty. Thanks for the heads up.
 
GodsMadClown said:
http://svsubwoofers.com/
or
http://www.hsuresearch.com/

Those two companies do $400-$2000 subwoofers better than anybody else. Can I get a witness?
Click to expand...

Seconded!!

I've got an SVS PB2+. That beast is the size of a minifridge laying on its side, weighs 120lbs, and puts out >110dB at 20hz WITH THE GAIN AT 1/4. This thing will give you hearing damage in no time. When I was running it full-out for about 1/2 hour, the rest of the day I felt like I had a bad head cold =]

If you don't want to spend the 1300$ for that monster, they are coming out with a new 10" sub, the PB10-ISD. That will weigh in at 400$, go down to 18hz, and do all that at +-1dB, which is damn flat. If you are on a budget, I'd be looking at that.

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb10_isd.htm
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news.htm

EDIT: Any SVS or Hsu sub would slaughter that Phase tech sub. It might be fine for music, but you'll want more headroom for movies and games.
 
WOW that PB10-ISD hits low! 18Hz!!
That's really awesome i'll definitely look into it!

How does it sound though? Does is sound muffled/distorted/etc?

There's gotta be a catch... 18-100Hz 10" sub for 400$?
 
The catch is that it is not availible yet. It also has very limited input options. That is also pre-order pricing. The regular retail price will be higher.
 
I'm liking the specs on the PB1-ISD. The inputs appear to be a lot better too. It's a little over budget but it would be soooo cooool. :D

Do any stores sell these subs? I'm not seeing any dealer locator...
I'd obviously love to hear them before I drop a lot of cash on 'em.
 
mykel said:
I'm liking the specs on the PB1-ISD. The inputs appear to be a lot better too. It's a little over budget but it would be soooo cooool. :D

Do any stores sell these subs? I'm not seeing any dealer locator...
I'd obviously love to hear them before I drop a lot of cash on 'em.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, nobody sells these subs in stores. However, this is precisely the reason they are so cheap: no third parties charging extra money, no middlemen.

I was a little worried too, buying a 1300$ box without hearing it, but there was no reason. If you want some more assurance, go to www.hometheaterforum.com , which has a gigantic SVS following. do a search for Edward JM, who's done 3 very high quality reviews of different subs from SVS. SVS really doesn't do something unless they do it right, from what I've seen and read. Their tech support is also great. When I emailed them, it never took them more than a few hours to respond.

seriously, if you want a good sub, look around at HTF, you'll find a million positive things about SVS. In fact, you'd really have to dig deep to find somebody who is unhappy with them.

One last thing, the PB1-ISD and the PCi [the cylinder] are basically the same thing. The cylinder subs are just as powerful as the box subs [assuming the same drivers/# of drivers of course] but cost less. The PCi2039 is probably their most popular sub, lots of people have that. The PB2+ is also very popular, and many say it's the best sub under 2000$, but that would probably totally blow your budget.

As GMC mentioned, the PB10-ISD doesn't have speaker-level inputs, which isn't any kind of loss for me at least. As long as you have a receiver that supports DD or Pro Logic, it'll work fine. Basically, any receiver made in the last 5 years, give or take.
 
Ya, I did some hunting around them. I read one of Ed's reviews. It spoke pretty highly of the PB1-ISD.

So, in short it's worth the money and crossing of the fingers?

I guess I'll put it at the top of the list...
 
mykel said:
So, in short it's worth the money and crossing of the fingers?
Click to expand...

I'd say that it's definitely worth the $$. If all you've heard is standard computer speaker subs and car subs, this will be a world of difference. Even though my room is a big POS for any sort of audio setup, I still get great response. Not just quantity, but quality also. I can barely stand to listen to my brother's Klipsch 2.1's anymore =]

EDIT: Evidently I don't understand how to use quotes.
 
If you can wait until November, then the PB10-ISD is a good bet. They claim that shipment will start on Holloween. Scary... :rolleyes:

It's the continuously variable phase that is the real star. It is really a tremendous feature at this price point. When setting up a subwoofer, it's very useful.

Don't sweat the lack of input options. One is all that you need. At $400, they are tossing out as much cruft as they can to give you bang/buck. Nobody uses speaker level inputs on subwoofers nowadays. It's ancient technology that has held over from when recievers only had stereo output. Kinda like floppy disks and parallel and serial ports on computers.
 
Well, the PB10-ISD is also a 10" instead of a 12" and it's front firing rather than down firing. Or are those differences not worth the 200$?
 
mykel said:
Well, the PB10-ISD is also a 10" instead of a 12" and it's front firing rather than down firing. Or are those differences not worth the 200$?
Click to expand...

Depends. The front-firing vs downfiring is mostly asthetic, but the driver size isn't. A larger driver is going to give you better bass response, due to the larger surface area. Bass is all about excursion and surface area, all other things equal. However, the PB1ISD has a larger enclosure, which also makes it more efficient. Amp power vs enclosure size is governed by something called Hoffman's Iron Law, which basically states that the smaller the enclosure, the bigger the amp will have to be, and the stronger the EQ for lower frequencies has to be. Small subs, like the Sunfire True Sub series have amps that dump out 2700W, but they have to because they don't have much volume to work with. The opposite is true for SVS/Hsu subs. They are huge, and don't require nearly as much power to get the same sound.

I'd look at this too, if you aren't adverse to cylinders [they look neat =]

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pci_20-39.htm

It offers variable tuning points, unlike the PB1-ISD [the box version] so you can sacrifice some volume so that you can get deeper bass response.\

http://svsubwoofers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SSL&Category_Code=B-stock

Check their Bstock too, sometimes they have subs for a good 15-30% off.
 
Of course, any s/pdif (except those on certain Nforce boards) will only be able to output stereo, unless passing through encoded digital from things like DVD. You know this, right?
 
GodsMadClown said:
Of course, any s/pdif (except those on certain Nforce boards) will only be able to output stereo, unless passing through encoded digital from things like DVD. You know this, right?
Click to expand...

In the info about that thing, they never mention whether it can even pass 5.1 DD or DTS, so I'm guessing that it might not be able to. Better off buying a low-profile sound card of some sort, instead of chancing 30$ on some doodad.
 
any pass through is passing a digital signal. it has no effect on what sort of information is in that signal. The important components will be the source(if it's not encoded in dts or 5.1, you arn't going to get it), and then a digital decoder on the other end(must support dts or 5.1)

Pass through literaly means that, it doesn't touch modify the signal, but passes it digitally from source to another device(supposedly the decoder).

either way will work.
 
I think he's questioning the capability of that specific Turtle Beach USB audio device. Specifically whether it has required bandwidth to move the necessary data. I agree that a PCI solution would be more ideal.
 
mykel said:
Well I was thinking about getting ASUS "P4P800S" i848P. It has SPDIF, but can it transfer 5.1? :confused:
The receiver I'm still interested is the HTR-5750, thus far.
Click to expand...

There's no reason that it shouldn't be able to pass a 5.1 DD signal, but if you want reassurance, I'd look up a review online to double-check.
 
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