Speakers for under 350

counterpoint said:
These are on sale but I think this is way out of your budget: Polk Audio New Monitor 75T $220/each.
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Those are nice but they have dual bi-amp binding posts. You'd need a pretty heavy duty stereo amplifier to power these, no?

I was looking at the sub for this set, the 505:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130

Looks like you can plug the binding posts from each of the 75T's into the sub and then just use line out to a receiver. That'd be a sick setup. I'm curious as to how much power you'd need in an amp for these.
 
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EPOQ said:
Those are nice but they have dual bi-amp binding posts. You'd need a pretty heavy duty stereo amplifier to power these, no?
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Nope. The only things that matter are the impedance (too low and the amp could distort or even shut down (and if not, you may lose some maximum output), too high and the amp will put out less power and may not get loud enough) and the sensitivity rating (sensitivity is basically efficiency measured in a different way - they are not the exact same thing, but very close and directly proportional)

Larger speakers tend to actually be better with smaller amps than smaller speakers do. A couple of reasons. One, the larger speakers have larger motors (bigger/stronger magnets, so given the same amount of dynamic magnetic field (generated in the voice coil from the power delivered to the speaker by the amp) will generate more force due to the more powerful static magnetic field generated by the magnet of the speaker). And secondly, the larger enclosure itself is more efficient (you can learn something about why THAT is by studying Hoffman's Iron Law).

Larger speakers will often handle more power due to bigger voice coils and such, but because they usually have the larger motors with higher sensitivity, they will make more output with the same amount of power. And they then give you more expansion capability for power, because the larger voice coils will let you handle more power and the larger drivers can handle more displacement. The only downside to tower speakers is the size (and often cost). They are better in literally every single other way.
 
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dandragonrage said:
Nope. The only things that matter are the impedance (too low and the amp could distort or even shut down (and if not, you may lose some maximum output), too high and the amp will put out less power and may not get loud enough) and the sensitivity rating (sensitivity is basically efficiency measured in a different way - they are not the exact same thing, but very close and directly proportional)

Larger speakers tend to actually be better with smaller amps than smaller speakers do. A couple of reasons. One, the larger speakers have larger motors (bigger/stronger magnets). And secondly, the larger enclosure itself is more efficient (you can learn something about why THAT is by studying Hoffman's Iron Law).

Larger speakers will often handle more power due to bigger voice coils and such, but because they usually have the larger motors with higher sensitivity, they will make more output with the same amount of power. And they then give you more expansion capability for power, because the larger voice coils will let you handle more power and the larger drivers can handle more displacement. The only downside to tower speakers is the size (and often cost). They are better in literally every single other way.
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Interesting. So with the PSW505 would you just be able to connect the 2 tower speakers to the sub and just use the line in to the amp? I have a Onkyo M-282 WRAT 2 channel stereo amplifier. Power Output 6 ohms 2 x 125 watts/channel, Dynamic Power 2 x 140 W at 8 ohms. Would that be enough to power the 2 towers and sub? Just curious.
h107psw505-b.jpeg
 
Nope. The way you use that sort of subwoofer amp is one of two ways:

A) Do not use the speaker inputs OR outputs. Run a subwoofer line level connection to the subwoofer's line in. Speakers should be amplified by a separate amplifier/receiver. The line out for the subwoofer could come from the receiver, or you can use your computer's sub out, but keep in mind you will have to use processing such as Dolby Pro Logic II* or DTS Neo:6 or similar in order for the subwoofer channel to be used in most cases. Stereo audio without a surround mode will not use the subwoofer channel, and you will be missing out on some bass. This method is for home theater mainly, but is also recommended for multichannel PC setups. You CAN use this method for stereo audio - it is just not as simple as the next option.

B) Run the amplifier's output into the subwoofer's speaker level input, and then the subwoofer's speaker level output to your speakers. The subwoofer isn't amplifying the speakers - it's just pulling the bass out of the signal and otherwise just directing the amplifier power to the speakers. This is simpler and a better solution for stereo audio, but is not as good for multichannel because you can only run your front speakers through the subwoofer, not all 5/6/7/whatever. The line level stuff on the amp is ignored.

For a computer, you generally want option B. In summary, you use EITHER the speaker-level inputs and outputs, or the line inputs. They are basically never to be mixed.
 
dandragonrage said:
Nope. The way you use that sort of subwoofer amp is one of two ways:

A) Do not use the speaker inputs OR outputs. Run a subwoofer line level connection to the subwoofer's line in. Speakers should be amplified by a separate amplifier/receiver. The line out for the subwoofer could come from the receiver, or you can use your computer's sub out, but keep in mind you will have to use processing such as Dolby Pro Logic II* or DTS Neo:6 or similar in order for the subwoofer channel to be used in most cases. Stereo audio without a surround mode will not use the subwoofer channel, and you will be missing out on some bass. This method is for home theater mainly, but is also recommended for multichannel PC setups. You CAN use this method for stereo audio - it is just not as simple as the next option.

B) Run the amplifier's output into the subwoofer's speaker level input, and then the subwoofer's speaker level output to your speakers. The subwoofer isn't amplifying the speakers - it's just pulling the bass out of the signal and otherwise just directing the amplifier power to the speakers. This is simpler and a better solution for stereo audio, but is not as good for multichannel because you can only run your front speakers through the subwoofer, not all 5/6/7/whatever. The line level stuff on the amp is ignored.

For a computer, you generally want option B. In summary, you use EITHER the speaker-level inputs and outputs, or the line inputs. They are basically never to be mixed.
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So you'd run the amp line out to the sub line in and then connect to the computer via the amps line in? Here's the back of my amp:
onkyo_m_282_1.gif
 
The way that amp is set up makes it pretty easy to use either method. I would probably use the line method over the speaker method with that amp since it makes it easy. (Technically it's probably just the equivalent of a Y cable on the line-in to the line-out, but that's fine, and cleaner than using actual Y cables). Make sure to set your sub to around 100Hz lowpass.

If you have further questions about your setup, let's move that discussion to your thread since that discussion is going now.
 
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Sowexly said:
I'm pretty interested in these planar-magnetic speakers I think I'll grab these and that cheap t-amp
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Had a pair of Arx ribbon-tweeter bookshelves briefly. Pretty bright, pretty weak on bass compared to my Onix speakers. Didn't have a sub at my PC at the time (I do now, but I've long since returned those speakers). They might work well with one. I think I had a previous version of what you linked, though. I'm pretty sure they took the feedback that I and others (at least some of whom did complain about the exact same thing I mentioned - too little bass and too bright) gave and claimed to me the upcoming version would be better. I am fairly certain anyway. They would still probably be bright, but hopefully the bass is better which may make them seem less bright. Still, personally I wouldn't buy them.

I find planar/ribbon speakers an interesting idea, but they haven't really impressed me so far. I would like to get my hands on one of the LARGE Apogee ribbon speakers of the 80s to play around with sometime.
 
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Thanks for the info dandragonrage, I'm looking for some less bright; bass centric speakers after all so that would have been very disappointing on arrival.
 
Sowexly said:
Thanks for the info dandragonrage, I'm looking for some less bright; bass centric speakers after all so that would have been very disappointing on arrival.
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Avoid anything with a ribbon/planar tweeter for sure then. Not a single one of them would be acceptable for that. Some of the speakers will have good bass (since that doesn't depend on the tweeter..) but they will all be bright (to varying degrees). You'll want something with a relatively larger woofer (5.25"-8") and probably a 1-1.25" tweeter (as opposed to a 3/4"), however this (sentence) is a huge generalization that you should not take to be absolute truth, but more as a starting point for what to consider.

I would also avoid Infinity, and Klipsch, though Klipsch is out of your price range anyway.
 
You have to understand that many of the people who love horn loaded and planar magnetic tweeters are older folks who have that range of their hearing reduced. If you're young and have good hearing you won't have that problem. Go with the Polk Monitor line, either the 45B or the 55T. With their 1" silk dome tweeters they are slightly on the warm side of neutral and with their dual woofers you'll get good mid-range as well. The 65T in cherry is on sale right now and would be even better. But honestly, if you can afford it, the 75T will put out a bit better bass with their 6.5" woofers. They're just great for music. You can't go wrong with any of these and won't be disappointed. I'm not. =)
 
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I admit to being older. No worries there. Still hear well enough but certainly am not bothered by brightness as much as you youngsters.
 
The Lurker said:
http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers
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Absolutely not. I owned that set years ago, though it also had "THX" in the name. The highs were terrible. Rollercoaster response easily identified by ear, and far beyond bright and into "shrill."

To my ear, at least, I would go as far as to call that set garbage. Most computer speakers sound like crap to me, but those seriously and literally caused me pain to listen to beyond low volume (at volumes FAR below what I can comfortably listen to with speakers that I like).

They were capable of some decent volume for a computer set of fairly modest size, though. Just too bad I hated how they actually sounded so much.
 
You guys are crazy to put off infinity over the polk recommendations. The primus line with a receiver/amplifier would be a better combo IMO. I personally use audiosource 100watt amp with Paradigm Atoms for the desktop. My HT sub alone is $1000 plus :p.
 
Just to shake things up a bit

I have never heard the dayton speakers, but they come highly recommended. A full receiver < amp only option. The Daytons can be swapped with infinity primus line elsewhere.

Pioneer SW-8MK2 $90
Dayton Audio B652 $50
Audiosource AMP-100 $90

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-A...359596357&sr=1-1&keywords=audiosource+amp-100
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-B652-2...1359596285&sr=1-2&keywords=bookshelf+speakers

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SW-8M...TF8&qid=1359596213&sr=8-24&keywords=subwoofer
 
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dandragonrage said:
Absolutely not. I owned that set years ago, though it also had "THX" in the name. The highs were terrible. Rollercoaster response easily identified by ear, and far beyond bright and into "shrill."

To my ear, at least, I would go as far as to call that set garbage. Most computer speakers sound like crap to me, but those seriously and literally caused me pain to listen to beyond low volume (at volumes FAR below what I can comfortably listen to with speakers that I like).

They were capable of some decent volume for a computer set of fairly modest size, though. Just too bad I hated how they actually sounded so much.
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But sound is incredibly subjective. The OP may love a set of promedias if he listens to them. Just as many love tubes but you dont. In the end the OP is not you and you should be trying to help him be him instead of helping him be you.
 
mannyman said:
But sound is incredibly subjective. The OP may love a set of promedias if he listens to them. Just as many love tubes but you dont. In the end the OP is not you and you should be trying to help him be him instead of helping him be you.
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The guy said no bright speakers, and those ARE incredibly bright. I know we all have our own biological hearing curves, but bright speakers are bright speakers. Some people may not mind bright speakers, or may not hear how bright they are, but they are still bright speakers, which OP said he didn't want. You may be okay with them. I am not. OP should not choose them. There is a chance he might not be bothered by them as much as I would. But would you just recommend any known-bright speaker to someone who asked for no bright speakers, just because there's a chance he might not mind that particular bright speaker? We are not here to convert him into a lover of bright speakers.

96redformula said:
You guys are crazy to put off infinity over the polk recommendations.
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I will never recommend Infinity to someone who doesn't want bright speakers. I am definitely not a lover of Polk (I think they are just okay, for the most part, but with very good value options - not as familiar with their more expensive speakers), but I think they are a safer recommendation.
 
dandragonrage said:
I will never recommend Infinity to someone who doesn't want bright speakers. I am definitely not a lover of Polk (I think they are just okay, for the most part, but with very good value options - not as familiar with their more expensive speakers), but I think they are a safer recommendation.
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Heh, thats the reason why I don't recommend Klipsch / Polk, way to bright for me :p.
 
To specify what I want to stay away from, I want a sound signature closer to Pro 900s/ASG-1.2 an further from HD 595s (while not exactly bright they lack all bass impact).

I also had skullcandys FMJs I enjoyed their bass, and the Klipsch S4 was also a good pair of buds with great resolution for the price.
 
96redformula said:
You guys are crazy to put off infinity over the polk recommendations. The primus line with a receiver/amplifier would be a better combo IMO. I personally use audiosource 100watt amp with Paradigm Atoms for the desktop. My HT sub alone is $1000 plus :p.
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I can't recommend something I've never heard.
 
96redformula said:
Heh, thats the reason why I don't recommend Klipsch / Polk, way to bright for me :p.
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I don't think the current Polk stuff is bright. I've heard that their older stuff used to be bright, though. But I have heard the Monitor30, Monitor40, Monitor70, and the RTi A1 and I don't think they are bright at all. They're pretty neutral, and the Monitor line I would say is very slightly on the warm side. It also depends on what you are using to amplify them. Some amplifiers/receivers are bright and with a bright speaker it will be even more pronounced. The quality of the DAC also matters. Good DACs like Burr-Brown and Woflson are what you should look for. I use Emotiva amps and they are very neutral.
 
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counterpoint said:
I don't think the current Polk stuff is bright. I've heard that their older stuff used to be bright, though. But I have heard the Monitor30, Monitor40, Monitor70, and the RTi A1 and I don't think they are bright at all. They're pretty neutral, and the Monitor line I would say is very slightly on the warm side. It also depends on what you are using to amplify them. Some amplifiers/receivers are bright and with a bright speaker it will be even more pronounced. The quality of the DAC also matters. Good DACs like Burr-Brown and Woflson are what you should look for. I use Emotiva amps and they are very neutral.
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Yeah, Emotiva makes great stuff. The monitor series is the particular one that I thought was pretty bright too :). I thought the general AVSForum consensus was that polk RTI series is the way to go if you want polk.

I have demoed whatever I could around me and couldn't find a speaker I was completely happy with, returned from companies such as Aperion, Infinity Primus, Polk, Paradigm, definitive, B&W. The Paradigm I kept for the small size, but the Infinity Primus was a close second at more than half the price. Now, I truely miss the Infinity Beta 20's I used to have for the desktop, their sound was so much above anything else I demoed for bookshelves. I never had the budget to try out the $300+/speaker range for bookshelves.

In full disclosure still use Infinity Beta 50's / C360 in the HT/Multipurpose Room.

I would suggest whatever option you go, make sure their is a return policy if you don't care for them unless you get them at a good price on eBay(In which case you can resell near same purchase cost).
 
Infinity Primus 363 are a great bargain if you can get them on one of Frys intermittent deals for $200 a pair...
 
which is better: Cambridge Audio 30, Usher s520, wharfedale 10.1 or PSB alpha B1? Not gonna be for music, and i lean towards warm speakers.
 
Ref tech is bright. Our local store has them. Think klipsch. Usher makes damn good speakers. I had the 520 and heard the higher end models. Warm and fun.
 
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spaceman said:
Ref tech is bright. Our local store has them. Think klipsch. Usher makes damn good speakers. I had the 520 and heard the higher end models. Warm and fun.
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Yeah, Usher speakers are great. I actually had a pair of their woofers in my car briefly but they didn't fit well so I had to remove them. The 8945P. One of the best woofers I have ever used, for home OR car audio purposes, from any brand. It really upset me having to send them back because my doors didn't have quite enough depth for them :( (and they were only 1/8-1/4" off too)

I do not personally consider Def Tech to be quite as bright as Klipsch, though I wouldn't necessarily call them the safest recommendation either given OP's stated preferences. I can actually handle pretty bright speakers, just not very bright speakers. My favorite tweeter so far is still the Vifa XT19, which many people call bright. Polk used derivatives of the Vifa XT series tweeters in some of their speakers that people called bright. Of course, OP might be even more against bright speakers than I am.
 
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If space is an issue, then the best deal small-footprint speakers I can think of are the Kef HTS5001 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...1.2-3-way-Satellite-Speaker-Black-Each/1.html

If you watch he puts these on his daily special now and then (I got mine for $130 each, so $260 for a pair. They were retail for $350-$400 each or $700-$800 a pair.)

Low end is around 95 Hz when mounted on/near wall, and about 120Hz otherwise, so a subwoofer is a must. I'm using them with a fairly expensive Velodyne Optimum 8 sub, but a cheaper sub should work fine.

I also have the Kef HTS3001 SE egg speakers and the Kef HTS6001. The Kef HTS3001 SE are really NOT in the same class as the HTS5001 and the HTS6001. The HTS6001 is a bit tall for desktop use making the HTS5001 the better (and cheaper) choice.

It would be VERY HARD to beat these speaker for the asking price. The only shortcomming being that they really do need a subwoofer.

My current setup includes E-MU 0404 pro usb box, Emotiva a-100 amp, 2x Kef HTS5001, and Velodyne optimum 8 subwoofer. All good products for the money except the Subwoofer (which I got off eBay NEW for $500 which was a steal).

While I haven't tried them myself (not yet anyway), another speaker that is considered a great value (and getting great reviews) are the Emotiva Pro speakers:
http://emotivapro.com/products/powered_monitors/

While not quite as cheap as the Kefs, these are supposed to be some of the best sound-for-the-money you can buy right now.
 
Space isn't much of an issue I don't mind placing speakers on the floor and after reading the review I think I'll go with a pair of P363s and a cheap t-amp
 
I don't think a cheap T-amp will cut it... kind of a waste of time/money.

Those P363s dip at 4ohms plenty of times, I don't think a T-amp will be able to handle them.

But damn $117 per speaker for the P363's.. I'd pull the trigger on them and look on craigslist for a used receiver. Look for an older receiver like a Denon 3803, 2805 or some of the older Yamaha stuff like the RX-V1000. These were some good stuff 10 years back and will be able to power those speakers really well. I picked up my Denon for $80
 
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