SSD, my least favorite computer purchase ever

H

=HPSF=Roadrunner

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
285
I'm going to say, don't believe the hype when it comes to solid state drives. Faster, yeah, but I don't think they are worth the extra headache. I wish I would've just bought tons of gigs in WD blacks or spinpoints when they were cheap, instead of jumping on the SSD bandwagon.

I am very pleased with the Intel drive for the most part, but (big surprise) W7 just isn't ready for them.

Save your money, don't believe the hype. Until MS gets out of the dark ages they aren't worth the trouble.

I should add this is from a hobbiest/gamer point of view. I am sure they are plenty worthwhile for people using computers for work, and things like graphics rendering. For us casual users, it's a different story. I just wish someone had told me (or I had listened) before I spent my hard-earned money.
 
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but I don't think they are worth the extra headache
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What extra headache? On every system I have used an SSD on windows or linux. I just plug them in and use them just as I would a regular desktop hard drive. Although I have to admit I use windows 7 and recent versions of linux and have not tried ancient OSs.
 
What happend?

SSD was the best upgrade I have ever done for my old computer.
 
What the fuck are you talking about? What is your exact issue? All you says is blah blah blah MS sucks with SSD's blah blah blah...Great info there!
 
I have 4 WD Blacks on a hardware RAID card and my single SSD blows them away, even on a SATAII port.
 
OP - I've got to agree with xIronCrossx, you need some detail in your compaints, otherwise it is just whinning and helps no-one to understand.

I got my first SSD last spring, a 160 gb G2 Intel x25-m and am now so "sold" on SSDs that I hate the thought of using a PC that doesn't boot off an SSD.
 
Yeah I honestly just wanna get a massive SSD to put everything on. I love this thing, and I thought the hype was BS.(Before I got it)
 
One person who is not technically competent enough to set it up correctly concludes an entire line of very popular and well-tested technology sucks.

Way to go, Beavis.

I'm guessing you didn't articulate your exact issue because:
1) You are not experienced enough to know what the problem is
2) Are afraid we will tell you exactly how to fix it, making you look silly
 
Gotta agree with the majority here, my SSD experience has been almost flawless. I've even got my WHS running a Intel G1 with no issues. So explain your problems and let us help you or keep quiet.
 
I've had issues with getting AHCI drivers running on installs with older versions of XP, but anything newer with Win7 is as easy as it gets.

Coming here and dropping a rant bomb without any more info....meh. Whatever you're doing me thinks you're doing it wrong.
 
In Windows 7, you can treat the SSD like any normal HDD and the OS takes care of the details. I don't know how it can get any more optimized than that....
 
Just installed a Crucial M4 and it was easier than my previous RAID install. The BIOS deferred to the regular hard drives (I reused the RAID and left them on the first 2 SATA connections) but once I told it to make the SSD the boot drive, it went smoother and quicker than any other install. It's nice to see my desktop load almost instantly.
 
i went from 4 seagates 7200s in raid 0 to 240g Agility 3, no issues at all. I dont knwo what everybody is whining about.
 
The only thing I can think of being a "headache" is installing programs on a separate drive. I already keep all my games on a different drive (in my laptop, its a separate partition). Beside that very small "complaint" I don't know how owning an SSD is a headache. Expensive? Yeah. But for me it was no more of a headache than installing a traditional drive.

The only think I wish is that I were flush with cash and could afford to buy about 2TB of SSDs.
 
First of all, I believe I added in my post I have a pretty low level of understanding of computers in general. It is one reason I came here in the first place, to learn from the experts. I try not to ask advise or have people do things for me, but rather learn from them to do myself.
Secondly, if my first post was vague, it wasn't to try to hide my incompetence. I will be the first to admit I am over my head 9 out of 10 times. I didn't know how to replace a head gasket until I read about it, and tried it. I simply wasn't looking for help on a particular subject, rather sharing my experiences, from the stand-point of a hobbiest/gamer. The other reason I didn't go into detail, quite frankly, is I am tired. Tired of trying to fix it, reading endless threads about similar problems, and tired of failing.
Sometimes a guy just has to bitch, to vent. But I do really wish I had seen more of this kind of thread, rather than all the positive ones. As I said, I know SSD's are a great new device, and have a lot of advantages for a lot of people. I just don't think the average gamer (and maybe that's not me) is going to see that many real world improvements. At least not to justify the extra head-aches.
Can we just assume that I had a lot of BS I don't usually have to deal with on a normal platter drive? I really don't want to go into it all.
The bottom line for me is this. The only fixes to SSD's early problems have come from the SSD manufacturers, AMD, and Intel, and from users. I can find no info from MS (and their help department continues to grow more convoluted and redundant every day) regarding the install and setup of SSD's. W7 does very little in terms of setting up, or optimizing itself for SSD's, and the basic file structure doesn't allow for much customization. About the only W7 feature I can see related to SSD's is that the "Windows Customer Experience" will tell me it's time to spend more money on hardware.
It may be easy for some of you guys that work with computers, and really understand them, but for us regular guys, even the easiest of tasks can take hours of reading threads to get them accomplished. I feel MS has done a very poor job of making SSD installs user friendly, and even done a poor job of making resources available to get questions answered.
 
I'm not sure what the OP means by headache, but I can see where his disapointment may have come from.

SSDs carry a heavy price, and they do give you a noticeable speed boost, but from a bakers stand point its not the same as the performance you'd get from adding a new gpu.

Just my thoughts
 
=HPSF=Roadrunner said:
Can we just assume that I had a lot of BS I don't usually have to deal with on a normal platter drive? I really don't want to go into it all.
The bottom line for me is this. The only fixes to SSD's early problems have come from the SSD manufacturers, AMD, and Intel, and from users. I can find no info from MS (and their help department continues to grow more convoluted and redundant every day) regarding the install and setup of SSD's. W7 does very little in terms of setting up, or optimizing itself for SSD's, and the basic file structure doesn't allow for much customization. About the only W7 feature I can see related to SSD's is that the "Windows Customer Experience" will tell me it's time to spend more money on hardware.
It may be easy for some of you guys that work with computers, and really understand them, but for us regular guys, even the easiest of tasks can take hours of reading threads to get them accomplished. I feel MS has done a very poor job of making SSD installs user friendly, and even done a poor job of making resources available to get questions answered.
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But this entire thread is useless unless you say specifically what your problems were...Right now pretty much all you're saying is "I had problems with my SSD so don't buy one. I don't feel like saying what the problems were."
 
I'll send you a brand new 2tb Samsung for that 120gb Intel........
 
I want what he is smoking.

Installed windows 7 on over 10 different setups and all worked flawlessly and super fast.
 
The only disadvantage for inexperienced user might be the small size of SSD vs HD.

May be =HPSF=Roadrunner tried to install 500 GB of games on 120GB SDD and didn't succeed with it?
 
I don't make demands on people who are dissatisfied. They have a right to be. I can see many uses where the speed of the OS drive is not important.

As I have said in other posts on the topic: I see no advantage to SSDs. (And we have 3 of them installed on our computers.) I have provided a list of some of my complaints, including no measurable increase in speed. All I have gotten is the type of abuse that this thread has given the OP.

---

I don't say my experience is typical, but I do see other people claim their expeirences are typical. For that claim they are most certainly wrong.
 
Maybe the thread should be renamed "Windows 7, my least favorite computer purchase ever" because the only criticisms I could find from the OP were in regards to Windows 7. Though, personally, I had no SSD-specific issues with Windows 7 myself, sans the AHCI driver foolishness.

Also it's almost universally stated in threads here and everywhere else on the interwebz that gaming performance is just not dramatically affected by an SSD. So who gave bad advice?
 
Radical said:
But this entire thread is useless unless you say specifically what your problems were...Right now pretty much all you're saying is "I had problems with my SSD so don't buy one. I don't feel like saying what the problems were."
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Exactly this.

It isn't exactly good etiquette to come onto a forum, bash a product, and then not state what your issue is. I doubt anyone here would have an issue trying to point you in the right direction. Hell, that's part of what this forum is for!

tacohunter52 said:
SSDs carry a heavy price, and they do give you a noticeable speed boost, but from a bakers stand point its not the same as the performance you'd get from adding a new gpu.

Just my thoughts
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I think this is the biggest issue by far.


________

Were you trying to migrate an old install of Windows to your SSD or coming from a fresh install?

When I installed Windows on my SSD via a fresh install, pretty much everything was already done.
 
Alright, so I didn't articulate my thoughts exactly as I meant then. I was simply trying to tell others, that might be in a similar situation to think twice about the purchase. I do not see anywhere in my OP where I concluded "an entire line of very popular and well-tested technology sucks". I just want people to have realistic expectations, and maybe put that $150 they've been saving into a better video card. In my case, I think it would've been money better spent.

As far as headaches, a simple Google search will turn up countless threads on what to do, and what not to do when setting up SSD's. This was my first go at it, and I wanted to make sure I did it right. One big problem I had was that there's no real consensus on what is best, and what is necessary. I looked for some kind of install guide here, but didn't see any comprehensive set-up guide that I found other places.

@Baldrik-Drive installed now, sig needs update :p
@Eickst-Actually with the price of patter drives inflated, I think your 2TB Samsung sells for more. I got this 120gb at BB for about $160
@Stevedave-Let me talk to my room-mate
@Almalino-No, I went from a 150gb primary O/S partition. I have all but Fallout3 on my new install, and have about 60gb left.
 
=HPSF=Roadrunner said:
One big problem I had was that there's no real consensus on what is best, and what is necessary. I looked for some kind of install guide here, but didn't see any comprehensive set-up guide that I found other places.
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Let me understand it. You are not a computer specialist. You installed brand new SSD drive under Windows 7. Apparently you wanted to tweak Windows 7 after SSD installation and you could not find a guide for that.

Can I ask you a question - why did you want to tweak Windows 7 settings? Did you have problems with SSD performance after default windows installation?

I'm a SW designer myself and I installed SSD and it worked flawlesly without any tweaking of Winodws 7.
 
Monkey God said:
One person who is not technically competent enough to set it up correctly concludes an entire line of very popular and well-tested technology sucks.

Way to go, Beavis.

I'm guessing you didn't articulate your exact issue because:
1) You are not experienced enough to know what the problem is
2) Are afraid we will tell you exactly how to fix it, making you look silly
Click to expand...
What he did was even worse.
 
SSD is the single best upgrade you can make to an old pc, since nearly everything is disk-bound. And with Windows 7, you don't need any tweaks. Most of the guides are focused on reducing frequent writes, but with any decent ssd controller, the ssd will far outlast your pc even if all it did was constant writes 24/7.

But there is another side to the story. For someone who's not a gamer, i.e. typical home/office pc used for email/browsing etc, an ssd is not going to give a huge perf gain for the money spent, and usually Ram is a cheaper upgrade option.
 
I'm sorry you fell for a hype about SSDs in gaming world, but you should not be mad at SSDs for that, or even windows for not automatically sorting few things around. SSDs work perfectly under Win7 as they are, they can better, but guess what, so can hard drives with minimal effort and Windows don't set that up either, nor are there tons of tutorials.

Only thing you can get with SSD is faster loading time, and that's not really worth trading instead of a better GPU :)

Bottom line is, for your computer, always buy what is obviously obsolete or too slow. In case you already have great GPU, perhaps you need more memory, or stronger CPU, disk should always be the last on the list if you use your computer mostly for gaming (apart if we're talking about Rage, but that's something completely different :D)
 
Alright, I will try to explain. It's really not that big a deal.

I am not good at being consise, and given my limited understanding, and improper usage of terms, it's hard for me to explain things easily, and quickly.

Did a lot of research, avoid G1, G2 ok some brands, G3 best. To be honest, I don't even know what the 320 series is, but from my readings it seemed you couldn't go wrong with Intel. Even the G1 intel with firmware upgrade was good choice.
Bought two new Intel 320 SSD from BB. Headaches start here, not SSD's fault, mine for shopping BB.
First attempt was on son's rig, clean install, with no researching, just install like a normal HDD (as I had read in one forum thread paraphrased "modern SSD's are no different than normal HDD for installing W7.

One headache (for example only, problem solved, but nonetheless it WAS a headache at the time.)

Windows XP does not "like" (for lack of a better word) to be installed on SSD's. No big deal, as he will be running W7 64bit on his system EXCEPT...he has an upgrade copy of W7. As I understood it at the time, I needed to install XP on his SSD, and then upgrade to W7. Again, this issue has been solved, let's not address it. It is an example of a headache I had. It's not Intel's fault (though better directions would have helped) it's mine. I could've done more research. To make matters worse, XP created a partiton that I then had to remove using a different machine. I could not even do that through the Intel SSD toolbox, I had to use Disk Management. Again, problem solved, but more time spent NOT gaming. The whole idea of the SSD is to get me gaming faster. If I add all the time up I spent dealing with all this stuff, it makes those 5 second faster load times not as worth it.

He ended up with a bad mobo on his last upgrade purchase anyway, so we put his install on hold, until he got his new mobo. Do we need to start arguing about whether I am too dumb to figure out if we got a bad mobo? I will gladly go over all my troubleshooting, and reasoning, in all too lengthy detail.

Since I had some user-error related issues on my first attempt (and a lot of that was him rushing me to get his rig back up and running) I decided to really read up, and be methodical on my next attempt. After all, this was MY rig we we're dealing with now. Maybe I read too much, and made it overly complex. My faith in MS/Windows at this point was not really strong to begin with. Are you guys telling me yours is? I started at my usual info gathering spots, mostly here, but I didn't see any real comprehensive thread. Maybe I didn't look long enough, or check the right forum; usually that stuff get's stickied or a lot of activity so it's pretty easy to find. I ended up going with this guide. I work good with step-by-step checklist type of stuff. It just helps me work through unfamiliar territory. I was aware that partition alignment SHOULD be handled by W7, but since I had already had issues with formatting, I decided to make sure it was done. I ended up going with this guide, using or not using the suggestions, as I saw they applied to my situation.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-guide-optimization-for-ssds-hdds

I picked that one after looking at several, reading the threads about them, and the arguements about whether or not it's necessary, or even beneficial to turn off indexing etc. For the most part, that part went fine. The guide was well written, and simple. Most of the suggestions seemed to be the recent consensus, that I could find, and again I adapted the guide to fit my circumstances, or to what seemed logical. (Page file reduced, but not eliminated for example)

I do not know where posters in this thread get that I am bashing SSD's. I did not, and I even said I was happy with the drive itself. Where my disillusionment came in was the actual use. I was so excited and happy to finally get an SSD, and the lack of any real support from MS just ruined it for me. Is it too much to ask for them to have some official guide or tips? I am sure I am going to get a link to their SSD set-up page, but when I looked I found nothing. Even specific issues on their help sites don't ever really seem to address certain issues.

So, let's start the debate again I guess, about what folders to move to my HDD, and which ones to leave on the SSD. ANd then, just point me to the best way to do it. I have seen numerous ways to move folders, and as many people saying it's the wrong way, or unnecessary. Forgive me if I don't trust Windows to manage my hard-earned new purchase to maximize it's performance and lifespan.

I would also like to add, that I am not afraid to actually USE my SSD, and in fact, fill her up. I paid the premium for the faster performance (among other things) it makes no sense to me to not put as much stuff on there as I can. Even if it is just games, that's what this system is for. What I am concerned with, is reducing the amount of writes to the disk. Especially all the Windows crap writes like temp internet folders and such. As far as I have read, that seems to be mutually agreed upon to lengthen the life of SSD's.
 
I too was convinced that this would be "the single best performance upgrade" I could make. I read it over and over and over. This is just not true. At least it's not as cut-n-dry IMO. Going by the Windows Experience or whatever (and please give me enough credit for not putting much faith in that) my HDD was by far the weakest link. By my own knowledge, my 8mb cache Seagate was ready for an upgrade. Mt processor is by no means top-o-the-line, but an unlocked PII X2be running at 3.8 is plenty adequate in today's world. I just upped my mobo from a 785 to an 880, again plenty adequate. My GFX is my real weak link in a gaming rig, and I knew this. I have a 5870 on the way, so yeah, where's the weak link?

I still feel, in overall performance, yes, the HDD is, but in a gaming rig, how much better would games run with another 5870 in CF? Or I could've just spent $300 on a video card.

Let me reiterate my initial intention. I just wanted to offer another point of view for those, like me, that have been patiently waiting, and wanting a SSD. Make sure you will really benefit from it. it may not be the best purchase FOR YOU.
 
IMO the only real gotcha is AHCI mode. I see you had a bunch of issues, but quite a few of them were with parts other than the SSD - or from trying to over tweak things.

*Be in AHCI mode
*Buy intel ssd
*install windows 7 letting it do everything
*that's it.
 
Another great example:

My ACHI mode can only be enabled by enabling raid (at least in BIOS)
Intel SSD toolbox will not run optimization with raid enabled.

And there is debate about whether setting ACHI is even necessary.

I am aware that this is a issue with my mobo/BIOS, and not SSD's in general, or MS.

WHen did y'all turn into a bunch of MS fanbois anyway? :p
 
When did you start hating MS for no reason?

All of your issues are caused by something OTHER THAN WINDOWS 7.
 
=HPSF=Roadrunner said:
I still feel, in overall performance, yes, the HDD is, but in a gaming rig, how much better would games run with another 5870 in CF? Or I could've just spent $300 on a video card.

Let me reiterate my initial intention. I just wanted to offer another point of view for those, like me, that have been patiently waiting, and wanting a SSD. Make sure you will really benefit from it. it may not be the best purchase FOR YOU.
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i would like to sympathize with you as well. i kept reading about "best computer purchase you could make" etc back in the G1 days and thought id give it a try when i got osme money. bought an 80GB and popped it in my rig. the one time i booted every month or so went SUPER FAST, but that super fast meant i waited 10 seconds for windows to load instead of a minute. big fucking deal. with some games i guess they loaded faster too, but they didnt play any better of course. i usually have my laptop skyping my gf when im gaming, or maybe im reading [H] on it. or maybe i go take a piss while it loads. i just didnt see any real value in the cut down loading times. i sold it after about a week.

i think for a casual user or a gamer, a 7200rpm HDD is just fine. on this forum though, there are many serious gamers and other power users. for serious gamers with 2600Ks and trifire 6970s, a spinning disk is just ridiculous. its like putting 13" tires on your hummer. and for many tech-related professionals such as graphic designers, that extra speed does actually come in handy. i think because of these types of people on the forum, you hear more about how great they are than represents the majority.

are they fast? fuck yeah! are they worth the cost? only for power users imo. im rocking a 2.5" 160GB WD blue in my gaming rig right now, and i have no problems with it at all. got it for like $30 a year or two ago. i spent my big storage money on 6x2TB drives and 1x3TB about a year ago (~500 total) and am so glad i did. i might get an SSD in a year or 2, but its very low on my list of desires right now. i think id probably put one in my slow laptop since i boot it so much before sticking one in my gaming rig.

finally, id like to point out that i dont think your problems had so much to do with SSD vs HDD. it seems more like windows problems, formatting problems, and other problems that we all run into sometimes when trying to install and customize windows to our liking on any hard drive. if i were you id return those SSDs and get some computer parts that will make a bigger difference for you individually. the 5870 is a great start, i love mine very much. :D
 
From what I can see this is 95% user error and 5% user misinformation leaving 0% error on SSD and 0 % error on windows 7.


It's like saying you hate your job because you got a flat tire on the way to work.

SSD doesn't improve gameplay or FPS or performance. What SSD does is allow you to get into the game fast and spend less time watching load screens.

Boot Time reduction, Game install reduction, Game loading reduction. All by large margins. (reduced my boot time from 52 seconds to 23, Installed Diablo 2 in 2 minutes vs 20, L4D2 loads new levels and maps SIGNIFICANTLY fast) If you were expecting anything else you were misinformed.
 
=HPSF=Roadrunner said:
Another great example:

My ACHI mode can only be enabled by enabling raid (at least in BIOS)
Intel SSD toolbox will not run optimization with raid enabled.

And there is debate about whether setting ACHI is even necessary.

I am aware that this is a issue with my mobo/BIOS, and not SSD's in general, or MS.

When did y'all turn into a bunch of MS fanbois anyway? :p
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My box needs RAID enabled as well for AHCI. But that doesn't mean I need to HAVE a RAID (i.e RAID 0 or RAID 1), it just needs to be enabled, I have only one SSD in there. When it boots it says something like "AHCI RAID enabled - Single Disk". Therefore I don't have to worry about RAID and TRIM.

I'm sure everyone here would like to help you if you could just take some time to cool off and come back when you're ready for some help.
 
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