Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

To me it's not so much about realism as a sense of immersion and making it "feel" real (opposed to actual realism).

Even if they add in blindspots, I doubt they'll go to the effort of adding in blind spots for the pillars and such of the canopy, which is again a + or - of a given space ship.

We already are developing things like the Oculus Rift... I'm sure you could argue that future space ships will not even have a canopy, just a bunch of cameras that feed in to a helmet seamlessly. So I don't think "realism" is an argument for forcing cockpit view so much as a sense of immersion is the reason. I think what CR is trying to create is a tangible experience of jetting off across the galaxy, surrounded by status display monitors and controls for your ship, and having a cockpit is more tangible and more immersive than having a chase cam or a "hide cockpit" mode.
 
Skripka said:
Are we still going on about this kids?
Click to expand...
You got a problem with that, sweetie pie?

It baffles me why people come to a public forum to chat when they don't like what the general public is going to end up chatting about :p

Should be glad people are at least on topic (SC).
 
Last edited:
Very true. I think there's a very legitimate debate regarding views, whether it be first, third, first with HUD, etc. And I believe both sides have very valid arguments.

/mediation
 
Andyk5 said:
I'll tell you why this is a bad idea.
This game is being made for the people who wanted a true space simulation for decades, by someone who hold simulation, realism and immersion to a very high standard.
This game is being made so people can "feel" like they are in the seat of a space ship, for people like me who will buy an Occulus VR and fully immerse themselves in that universe.
It is not for people who is like" Lets fire up this game brahh, I wanna get me some kills, frag some noobs and hear them QQ all day on the forums braaaah!!!" bullshit.
I play warthunder as well and 3rd person view is a massive advantage in that game as well.
So if this game thirdperson dogfighting, here is what is going to happen. I am going to go get another flight stick, an Occulus VR, sit in the cockpit of my ship and while trying to enjoy every single bit of realism and immersion being thrown at me by the game, I am going to get blown up by some 3rd person flying turd who is just trying to either grief others or in the game not because of the game but he has been losing in all aspects of his life, so he just needs to win here. Ok fair enough, I am going to pop out to third person as well to be in the same playing field with that guy, and this is going to happen to many people and pretty soon everybody is going to play the game third person because no one likes to be at a disadvantage in a dogfight. So the whole immersion, realism and the simulation aspect of this game is going to go to trash and we are going to end up with an other arcade simulator in space game.
So please keep your hands off a game like this. There are hundreds of titles where you can "own,pwn,pawn noobs, seal club new players, flame them, make fun of them in official forums and feel like you are the ace,king,sir,Mr, professor, doctor pilot of the Universe" just not here.
Click to expand...


Did you even read what I said or did you just completely miss the point?

Unlike War Thunder you can still have third person view while giving them ZERO advantages over a first person view by simply not drawing things that are not in their field of view of said ship's cockpit from first person view.


Just because someone likes third person view doesn't mean they want an arcadey game, hell many of the best simulations (both real world flight sims and space sims) had third person views.

You are just trying to force a fixed first person view upon other people that might prefer to actually look at their ships.
 
Stiler said:
Unlike War Thunder you can still have third person view while giving them ZERO advantages over a first person view by simply not drawing things that are not in their field of view of said ship's cockpit from first person view.
Click to expand...

I do feel like this would be a lot of effort to do across all ships when you consider the canopy frame as well, and something a lot of people wouldn't really appreciate or understand when things pop in and out of view.

It would still be an advantage in certain circumstances where having a 3rd person view would more easily let you keep something (like a planet or space station) in view as you maneuver in a dogfight. In flying sims quite often in the heat of a dogfight you end up somewhere or in some orientation you didn't intend to be in. Unless you propose that you have a 3rd person view where everything that you wouldn't be able to see in the cockpit view is black, friends, foes, planets, etc... which I think would mostly just suck balls.

Also, about the "preferring to look at your ship", I think there's plenty of times where you'll just be cruising around not dogfighting or anything like that where it would make no difference whether you are in the cockpit or in 3rd person without a HUD (which is going to be in the game, so it's not like you can't cruise around in 3rd person, you just can't realistically dogfight in it).
 
Somebody talk me out of buying a Constellation! I already have an Avenger, Cutlass, and Super Hornet!
 
chineseman said:
Somebody talk me out of buying a Constellation! I already have an Avenger, Cutlass, and Super Hornet!
Click to expand...

LOL....How about no? ;)


I keep hoping they'll get the full Cutlass posted to the hanger skin and all...oh yea, and my Super Hornet upgrade applied.
 
chineseman said:
Somebody talk me out of buying a Constellation! I already have an Avenger, Cutlass, and Super Hornet!
Click to expand...

Don't buy it, get 2 girls and a bottle of whiskey with that money
Trust me, it will be way better than having an extra ship, I guarantee it.
 
Andyk5 said:
Don't buy it, get 2 girls and a bottle of whiskey with that money
Trust me, it will be way better than having an extra ship, I guarantee it.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. Can you help me convince my wife to get on-board with that idea? :)
 
chineseman said:
Sounds good. Can you help me convince my wife to get on-board with that idea? :)
Click to expand...

In that case get the ship, that money would only buy her one** pair of shoes, totally not worth it :p

**More or less depending on the woman ;)
 
Thuleman said:
Lots of people will have the Constellation, they all will need people to crew it. You are better off buying a Ghost or a Tracer imho and have some cash left over.
Click to expand...
The best thing down from the Constellation, if that's the type of play you want and that could be used by 1 person is the Freelancer. Besides, he already has a Super Hornet, lol.
 
I wish they'd give OBers the ability to buy ships with LTI AFTER the dogfight module comes out. How else are we going to know we like the ships we got? I bought a Freelancer, I just hope I don't regret going with a Hornet. I'm not totally sure in what way I'll play. I just kind of think like I'm playing Elite or something and want to have something that has cargo space for hauling. If I had any money to spare, I'd probably add in an Aurora LN just for plinking.
 
Thuleman said:
Lots of people will have the Constellation, they all will need people to crew it. You are better off buying a Ghost or a Tracer imho and have some cash left over.
Click to expand...

Tudz said:
The best thing down from the Constellation, if that's the type of play you want and that could be used by 1 person is the Freelancer. Besides, he already has a Super Hornet, lol.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it...you guys make some good points. My buddies tend to play the core/main roles while I typically play the roamer/flank and base my play largely off their actions. It probably makes more sense for them to be piloting the big ships while I do my thing. I typically have no interest in the macro/meta game or the economy side of them either. It's just so tempting...
 
bitgod said:
I wish they'd give OBers the ability to buy ships with LTI AFTER the dogfight module comes out. How else are we going to know we like the ships we got? I bought a Freelancer, I just hope I don't regret going with a Hornet. I'm not totally sure in what way I'll play. I just kind of think like I'm playing Elite or something and want to have something that has cargo space for hauling. If I had any money to spare, I'd probably add in an Aurora LN just for plinking.
Click to expand...

The fact that odds are you'll like what you bought based on the role you want to play.

For a multipurpose ship small - 325a/cutlass. Big constellation

Fighter 325a/avenger/hornet (or variant)

Trade.. freelancer or a starfarer (imho) or flexible trader.. constellation.


Lti shouldnt matter at all. If you end up really disliking what you have pledged for id say wait until the game drops and try to sell what you dislike with LTI for a buncha monies.. or trade it earlier w/ someone who has what you want etc.
 
bitgod said:
I wish they'd give OBers the ability to buy ships with LTI AFTER the dogfight module comes out. How else are we going to know we like the ships we got? I bought a Freelancer, I just hope I don't regret going with a Hornet. I'm not totally sure in what way I'll play. I just kind of think like I'm playing Elite or something and want to have something that has cargo space for hauling. If I had any money to spare, I'd probably add in an Aurora LN just for plinking.
Click to expand...

I don't think the dogfighting module will clarify much anyways. A lot can change in the next two years and I'm sure they're going to do a ton of re-balancing even after the game is released. What I don't think will change is the ship's intended purpose so I think you should base your decision off the broad description of the ship and not it's current specs.
 
You guys talk about soloing a Constellation like it's impossible, while I plan to some day solo a Bengal through a combination of espionage, social engineering, and exploiting. Like a heist movie, but IN SPACE!

(I've been kicking this idea around since before I read up and found out that there will be derelict Bengals just floating around out there...this may be easier than I thought)
 
bitgod said:
I wish they'd give OBers the ability to buy ships with LTI AFTER the dogfight module comes out. How else are we going to know we like the ships we got? I bought a Freelancer, I just hope I don't regret going with a Hornet. I'm not totally sure in what way I'll play. I just kind of think like I'm playing Elite or something and want to have something that has cargo space for hauling. If I had any money to spare, I'd probably add in an Aurora LN just for plinking.
Click to expand...
I'm sure some people will disagree with me, but I think this is smart business on CIG's part at the expense of supporters. Many people who have ships with LTI when the dogfighting module comes out will want different ships after flying them, and if they already have ships with LTI, they won't want to lose the LTI so will end up spending more money instead of trading existing ships.
 
Stiler said:
Did you even read what I said or did you just completely miss the point?

Unlike War Thunder you can still have third person view while giving them ZERO advantages over a first person view by simply not drawing things that are not in their field of view of said ship's cockpit from first person view.


Just because someone likes third person view doesn't mean they want an arcadey game, hell many of the best simulations (both real world flight sims and space sims) had third person views.

You are just trying to force a fixed first person view upon other people that might prefer to actually look at their ships.
Click to expand...

There will be a 3rd person view. You just wont be able to dog fight effectively in it. Cr has stated you wont have your targeting recticals or any hud display in the 3rd person view.
 
Filter said:
There will be a 3rd person view. You just wont be able to dog fight effectively in it. Cr has stated you wont have your targeting recticals or any hud display in the 3rd person view.
Click to expand...

This

Think of it this way, in 1st Person, u get a HUD, you get a retical, you get readouts, etc etc

In 3rd Person, you get NOTHING, just the ship in third person. You most certainly could use this for space exploration, but the second combat starts, I would be in 1st Person ASAP.
 
Filter said:
There will be a 3rd person view. You just wont be able to dog fight effectively in it. Cr has stated you wont have your targeting recticals or any hud display in the 3rd person view.
Click to expand...

This is what I don't get.

If you have third person, even if there's no reticle and you can just see around your ship, isn't THAT what people are worried about because you can see your enemy ships and how they are moving and have an advantage?

Not having a reticle isn't going to stop that and people will indeed be forced to third person it but also constantly switch back and fourth because of it.

If people would stop being so afraid of third person and this sense of "Everything must be first person" and embrace third person being viable they could instead work on balancing both and making sure that neither one gives you an advantage in some form over the other.

Give third person a reticle and actually let people fly/do combat in it, but only as ogod as first person with no visibility on anything you can't see from 1st person view. So if someone does like 1st person view they are fully able to use it without worrying about a third person view having an advantage.

Also for all the people that scream that third person view can't be done or will give an advantage over 1st person view, what about Occulus Rift/Track IR? I see hardly anyone talk about the advantages those perphials will give people that have them over those users who don't, yet that seems like something that's a-ok in the peoples book in terms of balancing.

Unless you have a joystick with a hat switch (which many don't have) you're going to be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to looking around the cockpit and keeping track of things around you as easily.
 
Well x rebirth is coming out this week so hopefully it will tide my space sim craving until the dogfighting module. thinking about picking up a 290 after i watched the trailer again. visually it looks amazing, lets hope the rest if the game is that good.
 
shifty68 said:
Well x rebirth is coming out this week so hopefully it will tide my space sim craving until the dogfighting module. thinking about picking up a 290 after i watched the trailer again. visually it looks amazing, lets hope the rest if the game is that good.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am really staring down Rebirth right now, it looks like it will be fun, if only to tide me over till SC.

I am still debating what to do ship wise, I think I am going to dump my Super Hornet and grab a Cutlass and Avenger.
 
TrackIR / Oculus Rift will be a much bigger advantage for looking around the cockpit than a hat switch TBH. It may be easier to use a mouse to look around if they have any sort of mouse look option too.
 
shifty68 said:
Ya i think grabbing the Cutlass and the avenger would be the way to go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinkin that too




Since the Super Hornet is NO LONGER available to anyone, I have an LTI in my possession, if anyone wants it, rather than me just melting the crap out of it and watching one go bye bye

$180 if anyone wants it, lemme know, I would rather someone in [H] get its it rather than no-one.

edit* I should clarify

This is the weekend warrior pack btw!
 
Last edited:
shifty68 said:
But...but... you won't get that fancy pistol. :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I just wont ever need the super hornet, I need long distance travel, and the hornet wont do that for me, I need to be able to get out and sleep in deep space depending on where my trips take me.
 
Question on the mechanics of sleep/logging out if anyone has heard.

If I am doing deep space travel in my Constellation with some friends helping crew it but they need to leave so goes to sleep. Are they stuck waiting for me to come back if they get on another time, teleported to the closest system, am I stuck being short crew, AI replace them, etc. These types of issues?
 
Ya i know what you mean. hey if all the ships are going on sale again you should consider the caterpillar. To me that seems like the best exploration/salvage ship. And its only $45 more than the weekend warrior.
 
shifty68 said:
Ya i know what you mean. hey if all the ships are going on sale again you should consider the caterpillar. To me that seems like the best exploration/salvage ship. And its only $45 more than the weekend warrior.
Click to expand...

tue, but I like the versitlity of the cutlass, being able to switch out between scavenging, hunting, pirating, I like that.

Plus it just looks like a kick ass scavenger

Im gonna paint it all Weever like (Serenity/Firefly reference yall)
 
FrEaKy said:
tue, but I like the versitlity of the cutlass, being able to switch out between scavenging, hunting, pirating, I like that.

Plus it just looks like a kick ass scavenger

Im gonna paint it all Weever like (Serenity/Firefly reference yall)
Click to expand...

*Reaver
 
FrEaKy said:
tue, but I like the versitlity of the cutlass, being able to switch out between scavenging, hunting, pirating, I like that.

Plus it just looks like a kick ass scavenger

Im gonna paint it all Weever like (Serenity/Firefly reference yall)
Click to expand...

I think you mean Reaver, unless you're going to paint it like a fish. :D
 
Stiler said:
This is what I don't get.

If you have third person, even if there's no reticle and you can just see around your ship, isn't THAT what people are worried about because you can see your enemy ships and how they are moving and have an advantage?

Not having a reticle isn't going to stop that and people will indeed be forced to third person it but also constantly switch back and fourth because of it.

If people would stop being so afraid of third person and this sense of "Everything must be first person" and embrace third person being viable they could instead work on balancing both and making sure that neither one gives you an advantage in some form over the other.

Give third person a reticle and actually let people fly/do combat in it, but only as ogod as first person with no visibility on anything you can't see from 1st person view. So if someone does like 1st person view they are fully able to use it without worrying about a third person view having an advantage.

Also for all the people that scream that third person view can't be done or will give an advantage over 1st person view, what about Occulus Rift/Track IR? I see hardly anyone talk about the advantages those perphials will give people that have them over those users who don't, yet that seems like something that's a-ok in the peoples book in terms of balancing.

Unless you have a joystick with a hat switch (which many don't have) you're going to be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to looking around the cockpit and keeping track of things around you as easily.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Third person needs to be strictly limited in this game.

Line of sight and fog of war in 3rd person needs to be directly tied to your 1st person view. After playing APB, half the game came down to exploiting corners and cover with the 3rd person camera and just waiting for your opponent to get close and wrecking him. There would be no point in scouting or being spotted if you and your friends could be fully hidden behind an asteroid and just use the 3rd person camera to look over and around it with no danger of you being spotted yourself. It'd be way too easy to remain hidden and launch an unavoidable and insurmountable alpha strike that just ruins fights.

3rd person camera distance would also need to be extremely limited as well. No point in having scanners or trying to flank if people could just zoom out and see everything around them.

Most important of all is no 3rd person during combat. Your opponent pulls off a nice move and you lose track of him? No problem, just toggle 3rd person and you'll know right where he is.

Those are just random cases off the top of my head. There are many more scenarios where 3rd person would grant a huge advantage.
 
Decimus said:
Question on the mechanics of sleep/logging out if anyone has heard.

If I am doing deep space travel in my Constellation with some friends helping crew it but they need to leave so goes to sleep. Are they stuck waiting for me to come back if they get on another time, teleported to the closest system, am I stuck being short crew, AI replace them, etc. These types of issues?
Click to expand...

I don't think we have full details yet, but they have said if you devote a character slot to a NPC crewman your friends can jump in and replace them in the middle of missions. I'm betting there will be the same option with hired NPCs but it might cost a bit more. As for if they start out crewing your ship, well, might be a good WH question. :)
 
chineseman said:
Agreed. Third person needs to be strictly limited in this game.

Line of sight and fog of war in 3rd person needs to be directly tied to your 1st person view. After playing APB, half the game came down to exploiting corners and cover with the 3rd person camera and just waiting for your opponent to get close and wrecking him. There would be no point in scouting or being spotted if you and your friends could be fully hidden behind an asteroid and just use the 3rd person camera to look over and around it with no danger of you being spotted yourself. It'd be way too easy to remain hidden and launch an unavoidable and insurmountable alpha strike that just ruins fights.

3rd person camera distance would also need to be extremely limited as well. No point in having scanners or trying to flank if people could just zoom out and see everything around them.

Most important of all is no 3rd person during combat. Your opponent pulls off a nice move and you lose track of him? No problem, just toggle 3rd person and you'll know right where he is.

Those are just random cases off the top of my head. There are many more scenarios where 3rd person would grant a huge advantage.
Click to expand...

Problem you have with FOV limitations is who do you want to screw? Even in cockpit is scaled properly a landscape Eyefinity rig would have a great natural advantage over a single 16:10 or 16:9 panel in just about any ship. And if you lock FOV, those with Eyefinity have a game that looks like shit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top