Steam Controller?

SeymourGore said:
http://www.pcgamer.com/steam-link-impressions-fantastic-in-home-streaming-for-50/

They talk about Wifi performance in this article - conclusion: surprisingly good.
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The author said he streamed Killing Floor 2 at 60 FPS with no issue over WiFi. Then he says he was unable to stream Rayman due to tanking framerate and high latency. He also states there was clear video artifacting in Rocket League, even over ethernet.

The article says he needs to test further with an updated Steam client. He concludes, "wireless will still introduce more latency, video encoding won’t be as sharp as a natively rendered image—but the hardware, at least, is ready for prime time." So the device works as advertised, but obviously it cannot overcome the limitations inherent in WiFi connectivity or requiring the host PC to encode video while simultaneously playing a game.

I'm not sure why PC gamers, the people who demand the highest performance and sharpest image quality, are seemingly glossing over video artifacting and high latency. If I were to guess, it's because this is a Valve product and such products are viewed through rose-tinted glasses.

There's a reason why Valve does not recommend using the Steam Link over WiFi. Connecting this device over Ethernet makes zero sense, as why not just run an HDMI cable to your TV instead and enjoy native gameplay?
 
So far I am having some problems with it on my Steam games. I game at 2560x1080 and maybe its just me, but it's not doing well on most of my games. There seems to be some kind of issue because games are locking up, I can't seem to config the controller in most games, and the controller doesn't seem to be able to use some buttons in some games. I imagine there will be some hot fixes for it, I have already had two controller updates from Steam. Overall I really like the way the controller feels and it seems like it is very responsive (on the buttons that work). I haven't spent a lot of time with xbox or playstation controllers but maybe that is a good thing. I don't have to un-learn some muscle memory.
 
Played through the first level of Dishonored on the Steam Link + Gamepad. The Steam Link worked like a charm with zero latency issues @ 1080P. Love it. The controller... I need some time to get used to. I don't like controllers regardless, and this one will need some time, but it worked exactly as it was supposed to.
 
The layout seems like it was designed by a bunch of different people, who didn't work together. Will wait for more reviews, but so far the design is not even slightly appealing to me.
 
crusty_juggler said:
The author said he streamed Killing Floor 2 at 60 FPS with no issue over WiFi. Then he says he was unable to stream Rayman due to tanking framerate and high latency. He also states there was clear video artifacting in Rocket League, even over ethernet.

The article says he needs to test further with an updated Steam client. He concludes, "wireless will still introduce more latency, video encoding won’t be as sharp as a natively rendered image—but the hardware, at least, is ready for prime time." So the device works as advertised, but obviously it cannot overcome the limitations inherent in WiFi connectivity or requiring the host PC to encode video while simultaneously playing a game.

I'm not sure why PC gamers, the people who demand the highest performance and sharpest image quality, are seemingly glossing over video artifacting and high latency. If I were to guess, it's because this is a Valve product and such products are viewed through rose-tinted glasses.
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Duh. Wired is going to be superior to WiFi, only so much a $50 first gen streaming receiver can do with a WiFi connection even with the GPU doing the hardware accelerated encoding - its not going to work miracles with a crap router/AP. Experiences are likely to be all over the board depending on the quality of peoples WiFi infrastructure.

Love how the goalposts have moved, by the way. Earlier this year you angrily swore in every SteamOS/Steam Machines related thread how Valve's efforts were "dead" and "vapor". Now that they're starting to materialize, you're trying to find any little thing to nitpick, with no actual interest in owning or testing the gear yourself to make up your own mind. Keep doin', it'll be comedy to revisit in retrospect.

crusty_juggler said:
There's a reason why Valve does not recommend using the Steam Link over WiFi. Connecting this device over Ethernet makes zero sense, as why not just run an HDMI cable to your TV instead and enjoy native gameplay?
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Wild guess: some people have a preexisting ethernet drop by the TV? Running 100+ feet of HDMI cable isn't particularly feasible for a lot of people. Options are cool, one more way to connect is cool. Hardthink concept, I realize.
 
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DPI said:
Wild guess: some people have a preexisting ethernet drop by the TV? Running 100+ feet of HDMI cable isn't particularly feasible for a lot of people. Options are cool, one more way to connect is cool. Hardthink concept, I realize.
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Powerline networking is a good option for people as well. I've been thinking of going that route to wire my consoles and if I get anything like Steam Link in the future I know I'll want it. I know there is no way in hell I'd ever run HDMI cables from my computer room to my living room and bedroom. Cables running through my hallway and across my kitchen sounds like a surefire way to trip and break something.
 
Derangel said:
Powerline networking is a good option for people as well. I've been thinking of going that route to wire my consoles and if I get anything like Steam Link in the future I know I'll want it. I know there is no way in hell I'd ever run HDMI cables from my computer room to my living room and bedroom. Cables running through my hallway and across my kitchen sounds like a surefire way to trip and break something.
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Was going to mention powerline ethernet. I think that's the way a lot of people who want better than WiFi quality/speed but can't run ethernet cables are going to go. Powerline adapters have really come a long way. Ten years ago I remember messing with some of the first gen adapters and throwing them in a junk drawer. But last month I hooked up a cheap pair (around $25) for a friend to get ethernet upstairs, and it was pushing close to 500Mbps. Hell, they have some that'll do 1.2Gbps.
 
So Steam Link is targeted towards PC gamers who have homes pre-wired for Ethernet and have CPUs powerful enough to handle video encoding alongside their gaming? And who also do not care about video artifacting?

Who are these devices for? Valve claims they want to mainstream PC gaming, but the Steam Universe devices seem targeted towards high-end consumers and uber geeks. How many mainstream consumers have a penchant for Linux gaming, a desire for touchpad controllers and own a home with pre-wired Ethernet? Valve has the "modern homeowner who hates Microsoft and wishes to stream Crusader Kings to his living room" audience locked down for sure. But does anyone else give a damn about Valve hardware?

Look, anything that lessens my image quality, input accuracy or frame rate is a no go for me. These are the big three of PC gaming and I find it completely bizarre that other PC gamers are fawning over Steam Link, Steam Controller and Steam OS - which respectively provide less image quality, less input accuracy and less frame rate. Why? Why are PC gamers willingly absolving themselves of the things that make the PC superior?

At the end of the day, PC gamers desire the things that make PC gaming great; high framerates, beyond-HD resolutions and precise controls. The Steam Universe devices provide an inferior experience on these three fronts. They are completely pointless.
 
Dion said:
Is a good argument.
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It is kinda a pain sometimes. I do that, but the way my house is set up I have to roll the HDMI cable across the floor, which means I need to put it away when I'm done unless I want to trip over it. I understand why people would like to be able to do it wireless for convenience.

I mean the best is to do it all in-wall, and with HD-BaseT or fibre you can do it to any distance, but few people are willing to spend the money or effort to make that happen. Hence, interest in wireless.

Personally I am thinking about trying some Wireless HDMI but there are some serious limitations with it. If you want uncompressed video, you have to go 60GHz which has low range and poor penetration. It is also expensive as all get out.
 
I used the basic Steam client to stream games from the computer in my signature to my ancient PC in the living room via WiFi. Always looked and played great for me on the highest settings. Games that have local multiplayer options like Gang Beasts and Assault Android Cactus allowed my niece to play on my XBOX 360 controller in the living room while I was on my real PC in my room. Is the Steam Link comparable to this?

Are the people having problems on i5's without hyperthreading maybe? My FX-9370 doesn't break a sweat encoding video while gaming. Maybe an i7 would give a better experience?

Personally I thought it was better than the invention of sliced bread. :)
 
crusty_juggler said:
Look, anything that lessens my image quality, input accuracy or frame rate is a no go for me. These are the big three of PC gaming and I find it completely bizarre that other PC gamers are fawning over Steam Link, Steam Controller and Steam OS - which respectively provide less image quality, less input accuracy and less frame rate. Why? Why are PC gamers willingly absolving themselves of the things that make the PC superior?

At the end of the day, PC gamers desire the things that make PC gaming great; high framerates, beyond-HD resolutions and precise controls. The Steam Universe devices provide an inferior experience on these three fronts. They are completely pointless.
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Valve just understands that if they wait until everyone has 1.2Gbps 802.11ac to release the product, it will be too late to make headway with Steam Machines and the associated devices. It's available now, but if you are unwilling to compromise in any way, these are definitely not products for you. It's first-gen hardware and Valve is at the mercy of other technology they don't control. If you want to go all-in with the Steam Link and get the best experience, you need to be willing to upgrade your networking equipment to make it happen, just like people upgraded to 802.11n so they could stream HD movies at home.
 
I use MoCa networking/adapters throughout my house to Gamestream with Nvidia's solution to my SHIELD TV and ADT-1 and Nexus Players and it works flawlessly for me - that's the next best thing to having ethernet drops throughout your house. Just FYI. It beats Powerline by miles.
 
crusty_juggler said:
So Steam Link is targeted towards PC gamers who have homes pre-wired for Ethernet and have CPUs powerful enough to handle video encoding alongside their gaming? And who also do not care about video artifacting?

Who are these devices for? Valve claims they want to mainstream PC gaming, but the Steam Universe devices seem targeted towards high-end consumers and uber geeks. How many mainstream consumers have a penchant for Linux gaming, a desire for touchpad controllers and own a home with pre-wired Ethernet? Valve has the "modern homeowner who hates Microsoft and wishes to stream Crusader Kings to his living room" audience locked down for sure. But does anyone else give a damn about Valve hardware?

Look, anything that lessens my image quality, input accuracy or frame rate is a no go for me. These are the big three of PC gaming and I find it completely bizarre that other PC gamers are fawning over Steam Link, Steam Controller and Steam OS - which respectively provide less image quality, less input accuracy and less frame rate. Why? Why are PC gamers willingly absolving themselves of the things that make the PC superior?

At the end of the day, PC gamers desire the things that make PC gaming great; high framerates, beyond-HD resolutions and precise controls. The Steam Universe devices provide an inferior experience on these three fronts. They are completely pointless.
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Why are you sweating it so much - literally every time this topic comes up - if its pointless to you? It's not attempting to be all things to all PC gamers as you're trying to paint it.

Steam Link for $50 is a cheap option for some people that might want to game in the livingroom on the couch on occasion, to not have to A) lug their existing PC to the living room, B) build a cheap HTPC to stream to, C) have Ethernet and/or use it with powerline ethernet or MoCA, D) dont have ethernet but are happy with the WiFi . More options are cool.

Steam Controller is trying to provide greater precision than thumbsticks for some games, but is not attempting to replace KB/M - which is cumbersome to try using on a couch. Steam Controller is not a requirement to playing games on SteamOS. You can use a 360/DS4 controller too. But more options are cool.

SteamOS is a purpose built OS for gaming, unlike Windows 10 which is anything but. No bloat, no Onedrive, no Metro layer trying to boostrap a failed mobile division, no cloud bullshit, no privacy settings to fight with and are never completely off, no forced updates or rebooting in the middle of a game or program because the OS has a mind of its own. And hating Microsoft is not a requirement to playing games on SteamOS. But more options are cool.
 
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I'm enjoying the controller so far, I've played about 6 hours of Darksouls 2 and 2-3 hours of rocket league. Seems to work pretty well. The trackpad for the right stick substitute takes some getting used to, but it's quite accurate once you get the hang of it.
 
So Valve may release the CAD drawings for the controller which would allow modders to 3D print their own controllers. Then also they mentioned that maybe even sell the parts and you can just design your own casing and upload the design for others to try. Steam Workshop for 3D printers? Neat!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2993...ve-wants-you-to-mod-the-steam-controller.html

“We’ll be doing a bunch of stuff in the future like allowing you, if you want, to get the CAD files for [the Steam Controller] or something," he continued. "Or order all the electronic guts and none of the form factor from us because you want to roll your own. We want to enable that kind of modding and hacking and see what happens. Whether it’s a workshop where you can upload your own form factors and other people can download them and 3D print them, who knows?

“Our goal here is to build a good living room experience for our customers. It’s not to sell a bunch of hardware.”
 
zrikz said:
I'm enjoying the controller so far, I've played about 6 hours of Darksouls 2 and 2-3 hours of rocket league. Seems to work pretty well. The trackpad for the right stick substitute takes some getting used to, but it's quite accurate once you get the hang of it.
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Same. I played some MGS5 with a "KB&M with right touch-pad as Mouse" with trackball on and mouse smoothing config and it was quite amazing tbh. It blows away a regular controller with thumbsticks completely out of the water for accuracy. With a bit of tweaking to the mouse and trackball settings I could see someone getting really good with this controller.

I am going to brainstorm some configs for Diablo 3 tomorrow after football but I think I could get it to a point where D3 is doable. Especially an easy build such as WW barb,etc.


Fantastic controller and it is only going to get better.
 
cageymaru said:
I used the basic Steam client to stream games from the computer in my signature to my ancient PC in the living room via WiFi. Always looked and played great for me on the highest settings. <snip> Is the Steam Link comparable to this?
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Steam Link uses the same Steam In-Home Streaming that's been around for almost two years. You don't need any significant H/W to run the streaming client- although it has to support h/w decoding for the best experience. I've been able to stream on my WinBook tablet- (Intel Baytrail-T) and I'm certain the actual Steam Link will have less oomph than that.

Using Powerline ethernet feed the living room TV and five devices (Tivo, Roku, FireTV, Network AVR, BD player) Steam Link will be the sixth.
 
naticus said:
Same. I played some MGS5 with a "KB&M with right touch-pad as Mouse" with trackball on and mouse smoothing config and it was quite amazing tbh. It blows away a regular controller with thumbsticks completely out of the water for accuracy. With a bit of tweaking to the mouse and trackball settings I could see someone getting really good with this controller.

I am going to brainstorm some configs for Diablo 3 tomorrow after football but I think I could get it to a point where D3 is doable. Especially an easy build such as WW barb,etc.


Fantastic controller and it is only going to get better.
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Sounds excellent. Wish I hadn't slacked on pre-ordering before the first round sold out. From what I'm reading around the net, a lot of feedback is that you really have to use it for 2-3 days before you hit a groove and it becomes one with you like Neo in the Matrix. 10-20 years of accrued muscle memory using analog sticks certainly factors for many gamers, and not something you just instantly unlearn I reckon.
 
DPI said:
Sounds excellent. Wish I hadn't slacked on pre-ordering before the first round sold out. From what I'm reading around the net, a lot of feedback is that you really have to use it for 2-3 days before you hit a groove and it becomes one with you like Neo in the Matrix. 10-20 years of accrued muscle memory using analog sticks certainly factors for many gamers, and not something you just instantly unlearn I reckon.
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Definitely and a big thing right now is a lot of people are just using the controller incorrectly. You want to use only the tip of the thumb on the touch-pad. And only use the face buttons sparingly. But the biggest issue I have seen with the negatives is that people are using the emulate stick option for the touch-pad. That is all wrong. You want to use the mouse option with trackball to on w/ high haptic feedback and high trackball friction. It then becomes a beast on another level compared to analog sticks.

Right now the best way is the use the controller with straight up M&KB configs. But in the future when more games support Controller+mouse that will be the way to go. Think left hand with analog movement + right hand for precise mouse aim= all at the same time. Will be nice. And it is coming.
 
DPI said:
Sounds excellent. Wish I hadn't slacked on pre-ordering before the first round sold out. From what I'm reading around the net, a lot of feedback is that you really have to use it for 2-3 days before you hit a groove and it becomes one with you like Neo in the Matrix. 10-20 years of accrued muscle memory using analog sticks certainly factors for many gamers, and not something you just instantly unlearn I reckon.
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Yar, this reminds me of when the N64 came out with its analogue controller. Took me days of replaying that first world just to get to grips with the analogue stick and playing on a 3d plane.
 
Dayum.........

TOjzRLW.jpg
 
Ehhh... it's okay... the touch pad is amazing, but for Rocket League, the XBOXONE controller is better for me.

I tried to play Dirty Rally, Dirt 3, and GRID 2 with it, I ended up using the joystick instead since it started to feel funky.
 
DPI said:
Why are you sweating it so much - literally every time this topic comes up - if its pointless to you? It's not attempting to be all things to all PC gamers as you're trying to paint it.

Steam Link for $50 is a cheap option for some people that might want to game in the livingroom on the couch on occasion, to not have to A) lug their existing PC to the living room, B) build a cheap HTPC to stream to, C) have Ethernet and/or use it with powerline ethernet or MoCA, D) dont have ethernet but are happy with the WiFi . More options are cool.
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Link itself sounds interesting. Another way to play PC games with friends if they come over. Yes you will be limited only to console style games, but you can play your other games at your desktop when you need to. A nice streaming option can be nice.
 
DPI said:
Dayum.........

TOjzRLW.jpg
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The pre-order was open for a long time. I seem to recall it being around for weeks. And even now, anyone who wants this should know it'll be released fully in three weeks. I'd say these controllers on eBay are a huge ripoff, but really, anyone who buys one deserves it at this point.
 
I received mine a few days ago. Works great! I love the configuration and tweaking options. Switched out my wired XBox One controller for the Steam Controller and haven't regretted it.
 
Richneerd said:
Ehhh... it's okay... the touch pad is amazing, but for Rocket League, the XBOXONE controller is better for me.

I tried to play Dirty Rally, Dirt 3, and GRID 2 with it, I ended up using the joystick instead since it started to feel funky.
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I think games that are designed around thumbsticks like Rocket League are probbably better for a more traditional controller setup. But third-person, or FPS games w/ no aim-assist are def better with the Steam controller.

For example Borderlands 2 allows both controller+mouse so it is really good for these situtations. But BL2 is also a very casual console FPS so a regular controller with a ton of aim assist also works well.

I played a bit of Stranded Deep, a fps crafting survival game that has zero controller support. It worked flawlessly with the right config. This game would probbaly not even be possible to play with a controller without a complete redesign of the UI and crafting mechanics.... and it works amazing on the Steam controller. . D3 is another perfect example. I di d a rift on my WWbarb with just a simple config I posted in the D3 subforum, and it worked well. You literally can't play D3 on PC with a controller but it works well with the steam controller. These are the cases I see the most potential.


Spammy action games and fighting games are still probably better off on a traditional controller but racing games can be setup to use the gyro....and it looks amazing.
 
I remember trying the F1 game on PS3 when it first came out using the Sixaxis controls. It was not a good time. The gyroscopic movement with the Steam controller is probably better. I'd like to see a demonstration using a faster car, though.
 
I haven't used the Steam controller much (busy weekend), but I do like the feel and I am very optimistic about the future as more configs are uploaded. As plenty of others have said, it will take time to get used to the controller but it has so much potential. I was playing Civ 5 in my living room while sitting in a recliner easily enough.

My setup is Steam Streaming from my gaming PC in the basement to the HTPC in the living room over wired connection. Windows 10 on both machines. Strongly considering SteamOS for the HTPC now though.

They need to get 5.1 / 7.1 audio working over steam streaming.
 
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