Suggest a external/standalone Dolby/DTS decoder

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Bun-Bun

Gawd
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Sep 11, 2003
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OK the Creative fiasco with X-Fi cards and Dolby/DTS decodeing is driving me up the wall... ive had it! Decided to just buy a standalone decoder and then it don't matter what sound card I have as long as it has TOSLINK in/out and supports the Dolby/DTS encodeing.


So... whats good? Looking for DAC's comparable to to the X-Fi Elite Pro but better doesnt hurt. Not looking to spend a fortune but I could see spending upwards $300-$400 if i had to.
 
Standalone DEcoder? Just buy the cheapest receiver or pre-amp that has DD/DTS decoding.

May I ask what the rest of you're setup is like? What are you trying to play? I ask because there may be better ways to do what you are trying to do.
 
criccio said:
Standalone DEcoder? Just buy the cheapest receiver or pre-amp that has DD/DTS decoding.

May I ask what the rest of you're setup is like? What are you trying to play? I ask because there may be better ways to do what you are trying to do.
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Sorry. Here I will show you my setup.

0018ercx

0018fqf4


Was useing X-Fi Elite Pro with my Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1's. This is my gaming rig but I listen to a lot of music and watch movies on it as well as I haven't gotten my own house yet to start doing up my real system. Though I got some B&W speaker stands last week with my logitech X-680 sitting on them... looks kinda funny lol.

I also have my PS3 hooked up via optical to the SPDIF in on the back of the elite pro break out box. PS3 is on the BenQ on the left so I can watch blu-ray movies and play any game with surround sound and the X-Fi would decode it properly. However while using my computer PSU to power a R/C car charger (I know I am an idiot) I fried the Elite Pro. Now the Elite Pro's on the shelf are SB055A which doesnt decode Dolby/DTS see this list http://www.soundblaster.com/X-FiList/

I have tried to obtain a new X-Fi SB0550 but after a month of back and forth with a seller on ebay I now have a Fatal1ty something or another with a SB0550 sticker on it (which is dumb because the box looked sealed and straight from creative). http://pics.livejournal.com/bun_bun/pic/0018zx50
http://pics.livejournal.com/bun_bun/pic/0019588p

And I tried it and it doesn't decode dolby/dts. Now there is a driver hack that makes them work but I don't want to trust that will be around for long. As its some russion programmer who did it so I cant even read the website just know enough to download the hacked .dat files.

So I was thinking of getting a X-fi titanium fatal1ty and something like http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/de005jazzspeakers/ but i question its audio output quality compared to the elite pro and I can't actually find it anywhere (havent looked hard).

I was perfectly happy with my setup the way it was... its just creatives BS and this decoding thing that is screwing it up. I want to stick with a gaming sound card for the performance benefit (can see as much as 50fps improvement in wow). I am not prepared to upgrade the speakers at this time either. So I dont know what im going to do... It seems like the only card that does what I want it to do is the Elite Pro SB0550...
 
Ehh, someone else is going to have to help you then. I absolutely despise "gaming" soundcards, I think they are completely worthless. Not to mention how bad "computer" marketed speakers are.. There are about a million threads on that, so I'm not going to start a new one.

You would have a great setup is you dumped those Klipsch's and got some real speakers and and amplifier (receiver). No more messing with soundcards and crappy drivers... You would get a dedicated place to plug in you're PC and PS3 aswell.

To each his own.
 
criccio said:
You would have a great setup is you dumped those Klipsch's and got some real speakers and and amplifier (receiver). No more messing with soundcards and crappy drivers... You would get a dedicated place to plug in you're PC and PS3 aswell.
Click to expand...

Gaming on a home theater setup brings problems of its own though, which is part of the reason DD/DTS encoding has become so popular. You're really just exchanging one set of problems for another.
 
Not really. Unless of course you really feel the need for 5.1 in games... I have been perfectly happy with my quality active monitors. A good stereo setup brings more then enough "positional audio" when gaming.

If you really want 5.1 audio with games, you will want to look into a DD Live/DTS Connect capable card, then like I said get some real speakers. :D

Now HT its a different story, bring on the full 7.1.
 
criccio said:
Not really. Unless of course you really feel the need for 5.1 in games... I have been perfectly happy with my quality active monitors. A good stereo setup brings more then enough "positional audio" when gaming.
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That depends on whether you're a music-listener who likes to play games or a gamer who likes to listen to music. Most people who fall into the latter category will not find a 2.1 setup sufficient, as you are relying on DSP effects to try and trick your ears into thinking a sound is coming from behind you.
 
criccio said:
Ehh, someone else is going to have to help you then. I absolutely despise "gaming" soundcards, I think they are completely worthless. Not to mention how bad "computer" marketed speakers are.. There are about a million threads on that, so I'm not going to start a new one.

You would have a great setup is you dumped those Klipsch's and got some real speakers and and amplifier (receiver). No more messing with soundcards and crappy drivers... You would get a dedicated place to plug in you're PC and PS3 aswell.

To each his own.
Click to expand...

I knew I was going to get a response like this.

I already stated once I get a house of my own I will have a dedicated home entertainment setup for movie watching and listening to music.

1. I dont have a lot of room for a full setup with receiver and speakers around my computer as can be seen by the pics.

2. For the money the Klipsch Promedia is hard to beat (cost me ~$300 CND so around $200-250 USD).

3. I am a hardcore gamer and onboard is killing me for the performance loss right now. However with a external decoder then I can have the gaming performance and better the quality theoretically.

4. I dont want dedicated switch points. I like being able to fade in my PS3 with whatever is going on with my computer.

5. I absolutly HATE dsp effects and surround sound over 2.1... seriously don't get me started on that crap.

Also mentioned I was perfectly happy with what I had. Though I did notice a difference between the elite pro and lower X-Fi's so I don't want to buy something that is going to give me less SQ then the elite pro did. That's why I am hesitant on that decoder I linked in my last post as nothing there really screams out high SQ.

That's not to say I wouldn't want a dedicated receiver with some good speakers on my computer. I just A) dont have the space B) dont have the time to research what I want C) have the money to completely change it out. The Klipsch Promedia's are also not that bad. When people diss computer branded speakers I can understand comeing from Logitech Z-5500's or similar but the Klipsch are good. Esspeically for the money I paid for them.
 
Christobevii3 said:
The creative labs ddts-100 should do what you want for $150

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=136&product=9468&nav=1
Click to expand...

Can anyone comment on the SQ from this? I will look into it some more... could be my solution. Stupid that Creative pulls these stupid things to get people to spend more money grrr....

Auric said:
Gaming on a home theater setup brings problems of its own though, which is part of the reason DD/DTS encoding has become so popular. You're really just exchanging one set of problems for another.
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Exactly. that's what im thinking of doing with this decoder thing is getting a sound card like the X-Fi titanium with the DDLive thing and encodeing everything to it and connecting my Klipch to it. Then my PS3 can hook up to the sound card and be set to pass-through to the SPDIF out and then I have the same thing... well now I think of it that would be two Dobly or DTS signals at once... might not work. hmm...
 
I call BS on the "performance loss" while using onboard. That was true about 10 years ago.. hasn't even been close to true recently.
 
criccio said:
I call BS on the "performance loss" while using onboard. That was true about 10 years ago.. hasn't even been close to true recently.
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I am experiencing it first hand. So cry your BS somewhere else please.

Anything that frees up CPU cycles will improve performance. And this includes all dedicated hardware controllers including sound cards, raid controllers, network cards... ect.

Otherwise the CPU would do everything including video :rolleyes:



Looked into that creative thing... its discontinued so unless I can find something on ebay...
 
I haven't measured any fps, but I definitely have not noticed any performance changes going from onboard to soundcard to external DAC. At the fps I run on all games, small changes in fps won't affect performance much, if at all.
 
Alai said:
I haven't measured any fps, but I definitely have not noticed any performance changes going from onboard to soundcard to external DAC. At the fps I run on all games, small changes in fps won't affect performance much, if at all.
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And those small FPS may in your opinion not affect you but they do in my opinion affect me. So please get off the topic and get back on the topic of the thread.

The closest thing I can find is http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_hometheater_hd.php but I really do not want to use HDMI as my audio input as it limits me in what I can connect to it and also HDMI cables are bulky and expensive compared to Optical... But it may have the upgradable OPAMPS like the rest of there cards and I could suck it up on the HDMI thing...

So... for my information and the possibility of going this way (and possibly setting up a dedicated box for this) are there any good (non gaming) sound cards that DO support Dolby/DTS decoding on a optical SPDIF port?
 
Put a receiver under that small LCD by the window. Problem solved.

If audio overhead is causing a meaningful impact on your computer's performance, either it's really old or you have some driver/software issues to sort out.
 
ashmedai said:
Put a receiver under that small LCD by the window. Problem solved.

If audio overhead is causing a meaningful impact on your computer's performance, either it's really old or you have some driver/software issues to sort out.
Click to expand...

Yup. No matter what you (the OP) say I still call BS. The phrase "you're doing it wrong" comes to mind.

Not trying to piss you off, but it has been proven time and time again that the "performance loss" when using onboard audio is completely a myth, and was marginal at best way back when.
 
An example is codec issues. A relatively common mistake among people that know just enough to get into trouble is to start installing codecs and codec packs wholesale, which will easily cause abnormal CPU load. For another, the wrong sound or chipset drivers will screw your system up just as quickly.
 
I should have known better then to expect something useful out of this forum.

I'm done you guys can't get on the fucking topic so fuck you all.

I am talking about fucking GAMEING performance with onboard as it stinks and I have done tests in many games that have seen as high as 50 FPS differences. Of course this is a moot point for games that do sound with software drivers only effects hardware modes which are becoming scarce in new games (especially with vista) but at this time they still affect me.

And to who said it has been proven time and time again a myth then show me this fucking proof and go over to the creative forums and wow forums and a few other game forums and tell everyone who is having performance issues when game makers decide to "turn off" hardware sound support that they are all a bunch of fucking lyers.

If you cant support the topic of this thread get the fuck out.
 
Relax, man. People are trying to help in their own way, but they're not here to be your personal concierge. Threads go off topic. That's their nature.

First off, I think the sound quality on the Creative decoder will be sufficient for your purposes. It probably doesn't have the highest quality DACs, but you don't have the highest quality speakers either. Klipsch makes some of the best PC speakers money can buy, but they are still PC speakers, and you can buy better unamplified ones for the same price. I'm not saying you should, only playing devil's advocate. You are still on the low end of the audiophile spectrum.

That said, I would avoid using real-time encoding, as you would derive no benefit from it, and it would further reduce sound quality. Not that game sound quality is all that high to begin with, but there's no sense in compressing it further without cause.

As for the performance issues, they are not and never have been a myth. However, it is safe to say that the sound solution will never be the bottleneck on any modern PC, because graphics and physics technology has continually improved while sound has basically stagnated. You're probably looking at a 2-3fps difference at most; if you are seeing a 50fps difference, then there is either a driver problem or a bug in the game's sound code. Of course, there are other concerns about onboard audio, such as EAX support, the quality of the OpenAL implementation, etc. I don't use onboard sound either.

As a side note, codec packs don't generally affect games (though ffdshow and other processors might run during cut scenes), because the necessary codecs are generally contained within the game's files and will be loaded regardless of what you have installed on your system.
 
Auric said:
First off, I think the sound quality on the Creative decoder will be sufficient for your purposes. It probably doesn't have the highest quality DACs, but you don't have the highest quality speakers either. Klipsch makes some of the best PC speakers money can buy, but they are still PC speakers, and you can buy better unamplified ones for the same price. I'm not saying you should, only playing devil's advocate. You are still on the low end of the audiophile spectrum.

That said, I would avoid using real-time encoding, as you would derive no benefit from it, and it would further reduce sound quality. Not that game sound quality is all that high to begin with, but there's no sense in compressing it further without cause.

As for the performance issues, they are not and never have been a myth. However, it is safe to say that the sound solution will never be the bottleneck on any modern PC, because graphics and physics technology has continually improved while sound has basically stagnated. You're probably looking at a 2-3fps difference at most; if you are seeing a 50fps difference, then there is either a driver problem or a bug in the game's sound code. Of course, there are other concerns about onboard audio, such as EAX support, the quality of the OpenAL implementation, etc.

As a side note, codec packs don't generally affect games (though ffdshow and other processors might run during cut scenes), because the necessary codecs are generally contained within the game's files and will be loaded regardless of what you have installed on your system.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I can't find the Creative thing though as it has been discontinued. There is one Ebay auction but its already almost $300 which is crazy.

My thought process on the real time encoding was it would eliminate the need for a high SQ sound card as the decoder would be your driving factor then. Also simplify the setup. Connect PC and PS3 to pre amp/decoder and then that to the speakers (and some have a bypass so that I can still connect the 5.1 from the sound card direct to the speakers). Also sets up for a better system later when I have more money/space/time ect. And please no one suggest replacing the Klipsch anymore. It's what I have and I have stated why I am not changing them out at this time.

I took one of the more usefull earlier suggestions and did a google search for preamp dds dts and came up with surround sound processors. Now trying to find one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Really like the Rotel RSP-1068 but $1500 list for just this... yeah way overkill.
 
You could check out Audiogon, one of the best places to buy audio gear. Maybe check out the bottom of the Adcom products? Adcom has a number of solid surround sound processors.

Btw, we were trying to help you by pointing out that it couldn't be the difference between onboard and soundcard that is causing such an insane gaming performance difference, especially with that rig you have listed in your sig. If anything, it would be best to NOT spend money if you didn't have to, neh?

It's like we are trying to tell you that you are standing next to a fireplace and you're complaining that you're hot and to stop telling you that you are standing next to a fireplace. And we keep telling you that you're next to a fireplace. Lol.
 
Alai said:
You could check out Audiogon, one of the best places to buy audio gear. Maybe check out the bottom of the Adcom products? Adcom has a number of solid surround sound processors.

Btw, we were trying to help you by pointing out that it couldn't be the difference between onboard and soundcard that is causing such an insane gaming performance difference, especially with that rig you have listed in your sig. If anything, it would be best to NOT spend money if you didn't have to, neh?

It's like we are trying to tell you that you are standing next to a fireplace and you're complaining that you're hot and to stop telling you that you are standing next to a fireplace. And we keep telling you that you're next to a fireplace. Lol.
Click to expand...

Regardless. I still play games that use EAX and I personally really like EAX. And I still need a way to connect my PS3 in tandum with my PC to my klipsch speakers and have DDS/DTS surround sound. That is the problem I am trying to solve here and I would appreciate it if people stay to that focus.

That said I will take suggestions on non gaming sound cards that decode DDS/DTS on optical in as a last resort type thing.

I will check out Audiogon and also Adcom. Thank you.
 
Hmm i see the ddts-100 is out of stock. I know you don't need headphones but the triton headphones come with an optical to 5.1 analog output too so that is another option.

Link

They're $100, so headphones plus decoder?
 
Christobevii3 said:
Hmm i see the ddts-100 is out of stock. I know you don't need headphones but the triton headphones come with an optical to 5.1 analog output too so that is another option.

Link

They're $100, so headphones plus decoder?
Click to expand...

interesting... I wonder if you can buy that box separate somewhere. Then I would just need a audio switch to go between that box and the sound card outputs. Heck I could even make the switch or make a 5.1 wye...


Been looking at the following receivers

Onkyo TX-SR706
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K
Yamaha HTR6160B
Yamaha RXV663B

Onkyo and Pioneer are getting a little pricey for this but the Yamaha is getting there. Anything cheaper from any of those brand's doesn't have 5.1+ pre outs.

The nice thing about any of these is it provides a nice upgrade path for future. That combined with forgetting about the hassle of getting sound cards to do what I want I think is makeing it worth it.

oh and I could even get some good speakers later when I have some more room and use them for listening to music with the receiver and use the klipsch for games/movies.
 
Bun-Bun said:
Been looking at the following receivers

Onkyo TX-SR706
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K
Yamaha HTR6160B
Yamaha RXV663B

Onkyo and Pioneer are getting a little pricey for this but the Yamaha is getting there. Anything cheaper from any of those brand's doesn't have 5.1+ pre outs.
Click to expand...

The Onkyo 705 has 5.1 pre-outs and it's a good deal cheaper than the 706. I have one myself. They probably don't make it anymore, but I'm sure you can still find them for sale.

Of course, the issue with any of those receivers is that they will not do bass management on multichannel analog inputs. That probably won't matter for your Klipsch setup since the sub has a built-in amplifier, but if you buy some HT speakers, you'll want to go the real-time encoding route.
 
Auric said:
The Onkyo 705 has 5.1 pre-outs and it's a good deal cheaper than the 706. I have one myself. They probably don't make it anymore, but I'm sure you can still find them for sale.
Click to expand...

Yeah its not on the site. Will look on ebay and audiogon though.
 
Auric said:
Of course, the issue with any of those receivers is that they will not do bass management on multichannel analog inputs. That probably won't matter for your Klipsch setup since the sub has a built-in amplifier, but if you buy some HT speakers, you'll want to go the real-time encoding route.
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not entirely sure what you mean. I know it wont be a problem with the Klipsch as it has its own crossovers.
 
Why not the Onkyo 606? Use it with the Auzentech hdmi card and get some $5 hdmi cables from monoprice.
 
ND40oz said:
Why not the Onkyo 606? Use it with the Auzentech hdmi card and get some $5 hdmi cables from monoprice.
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606 doesnt have 5.1 preouts thus can't use it with my klipsch speakers.

Been thinking of just waiting for that Auzentech card to come out and connect the PS3 up to it. I kinda want to get a receiver now just so I dont have to deal with sound card BS anymore and just get any gaming card I want.

Speaking of which if I get a Receiver which sound card should I get? X-Fi Titanium Fatal!ty?
 
If you will get a receiver, then get any soundcard that has the most pleasing software for you. It surely won't be utlitizing the DAC. So, if you're concerned with EAX and such, then yes, X-Fi is the best bet. Any X-Fi that transports the game software effects through digital (which is mostly the Creative cards).
 
Bun-Bun said:
not entirely sure what you mean. I know it wont be a problem with the Klipsch as it has its own crossovers.
Click to expand...

PC sound cards don't provide enough power to drive a subwoofer and games do not typically have dedicated LFE channels, which is why all subwoofers designed for PCs have built-in crossovers and amplifiers. This is referred to as bass management, and sound cards can do it too, but they do a piss-poor job

When you use a receiver and home theater speakers, the same applies... as long as you're not using 5.1 analog inputs. To apply bass management, the receiver must convert the incoming sound to a digital signal (unless it already is), and most receivers lack the processing power to do this to a multichannel analog stream. In addition, 5.1 analog inputs were initially designed for formats such as SACD and DVD-Audio -- which have dedicated LFE channels -- so bass management is not needed in those scenarios.

The end result is that the first time you try to play a game on a set of HT speakers, you're going to wonder where all of your bass went. The easiest solution is real-time encoding. Give the receiver a digital signal and it will handle all of the bass management.
 
If you got those headphones with the decoder you could just use the analog splitter then turtle beach uses to put inbetween. As long as you dont push two signals to it, should be fine for your klipsch.

At the bottom
 
Alai said:
If you will get a receiver, then get any soundcard that has the most pleasing software for you. It surely won't be utlitizing the DAC. So, if you're concerned with EAX and such, then yes, X-Fi is the best bet. Any X-Fi that transports the game software effects through digital (which is mostly the Creative cards).
Click to expand...

Ok so titanium fatal1ty or the older fatal1ty ones would be ok then.

Auric said:
PC sound cards don't provide enough power to drive a subwoofer and games do not typically have dedicated LFE channels, which is why all subwoofers designed for PCs have built-in crossovers and amplifiers. This is referred to as bass management, and sound cards can do it too, but they do a piss-poor job

When you use a receiver and home theater speakers, the same applies... as long as you're not using 5.1 analog inputs. To apply bass management, the receiver must convert the incoming sound to a digital signal (unless it already is), and most receivers lack the processing power to do this to a multichannel analog stream. In addition, 5.1 analog inputs were initially designed for formats such as SACD and DVD-Audio -- which have dedicated LFE channels -- so bass management is not needed in those scenarios.

The end result is that the first time you try to play a game on a set of HT speakers, you're going to wonder where all of your bass went. The easiest solution is real-time encoding. Give the receiver a digital signal and it will handle all of the bass management.
Click to expand...

Ah I see what you mean now. Yeah I will leave the klipsch on for games and let the sound card drive it. Movies and music will be driven by the receiver via optical. Also will buy some nice 2.0 or 2.1 speakers for music.

Christobevii3 said:
If you got those headphones with the decoder you could just use the analog splitter then turtle beach uses to put inbetween. As long as you dont push two signals to it, should be fine for your klipsch.

At the bottom
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neet!


Ok so I bought a Yamaha RXV661. Found one locally on sale because it was a discontinued model (new 663 model has 7.1 vs 5.1 and can switch component/s-video to the hdmi output... big whoop).

Now I need a bunch of 1/8" jack to phono plug y-adapters...
 
Phimp said:
or just get three of these for a lot cheaper.

BunBun, you can get the 1/8" to rca cables along with any other cables you might need for pretty cheap at monoprice
Click to expand...

Yeah I noticed that. I placed an order there for all the cables I will need to set this up for ~$50 shipped =D (was gonna cost ~$200 locally :()


However I can not get my receiver to output anything! I have one 3.5mm to RCA cable so I connected the front pre outs to the front input of my klipsch amp and nothing. PS3 connected via optical, receiver says PCM input (which it doesn't with the cable disconected) so I assume its getting signal. Now I dont have the remote and there is a button with big red letters on the remote that says AMP so maybe i need the remote? I dont have the remote because this was a display model and one of there lackeys threw it away. However they ordered me a knew one I just dont have it yet.

EDIT:

I got it to work. Plugged in headphones and played with stuff till the headphones worked and then I got the pre outs working. Only 2.1 for now till I get my cables.
 
Ok EBAY seller offered to refund me 50% of the cost plus shipping so I accepted that and I am keeping this unknown card (I am sure it is a Fatal1ty Pro with a SB0550 sticker on it) since I have a receiver now.

Now on to the next thing. When I had it hooked up to my receiver it sounded like everything below 40-50hz was cut off. I fashioned an adapter out of many adapters I had laying around and hooked up the center/sub hookup on the Klipsch and it just replaced the lows from the fronts to from the sub output. Sounded the same. It's also much lower output too but the sub setting on the speakers corrects that. For most music and games its fine however certain things just dont sound (feel) right missing those lower frequencies.

Other then that though... sounds great! Either the receiver is underated or the elite pro was overated as the receiver is driving the Klipsch better then then Elite Pro ever did. And better yet I am not dependent on a sound card to get this sound =D

I am gonna try connected that X-Fi I got again and see if that solves my low frequency problem. Maybe my onboard isnt passing through all frequencies on SPDIF out.

EDIT:

NVM! its a setting in the receiver that I probably need the remote to change. After I posted I got an urge to push the pure direct button on the front of the receiver and all my bass came back. Still a little bit lower ouput but thats easily corrected.
 
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