suggestions for under $170 folding Boxen

M

moetop

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
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Ok heres the deal. All of these will not need Harddrive. Basicaly I am looking at all in one Motherboards, with 128-256 Mb ram, network booting. around $170 + or -. Probably Overclocking as well. I'm not including powersupplys or cases in the cost.. They wont have cases, and I will be sharing powersupplys.

So heres my questions

#1 Which CPU will I get the most WU / Points (Folding @ Home) out of for the Dollar. I dont want anticidotal evidence I want real life experiance and examples. AMD, Intel, Hyperthreding, Celeron, Semperon, Athlon XP, ETC

#2 How much ram do I need for best performance. Running the smalest Linux Client, Or that new 60Mb version Happy mage keeps talking about.

So maybe something like this
http://www.partspc.com/store/product1958.html
and a 128 or 256 MB stick of ram

Thanks in advance and if you can think of anything else give me suggestions.
 
well, $170 is a decent amount if you aren't talking powersupplies.

If you need integrated graphics with them, and can overclock, I'd probably suggest something like the abit nf-7m or something (~90) with an athlon xp mobile 2500+ (~85). But, I haven't priced components all that much lately. Someone else may come up with something better.

edit: I guess that doesn't include ram. whoops...

I'll just stop posting now :p
 
I'm running the client I made on a machine right now... Total memory 377908K, 304708KB free. By my math that's only 80ish MB. Give me a minute and I'll try it with just a 128 in. Should work fine.

edit: works fine on only 128. For the server I also have 384 and all is used, but there's a hard drive to swap to on that machine. I'd get 256 for it anyway. Probably worth the extra $.

Those sempron combos look nice... that and 128 only adds up to $106. Look at it this way: if you were buying 2 170$ machines you could get 3 100$ ones for the same price. PSUs are only $16.50, that's a decent folding box for $140 shipped. Nice.
 
Actualy that's close enough, and gives me a good Motherboard instead of some POS..

Keep the suggestions coming. Give yourself about $20-30 for ram.. so a processor / ram combo at 140-150 or less once again going for the best WU / score per $

You have this type of thing too. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-185-043&depa=0 But I havent been a fan of Cyrex (sp?) Processors

Ch1m3r4 said:
well, $170 is a decent amount if you aren't talking powersupplies.

If you need integrated graphics with them, and can overclock, I'd probably suggest something like the abit nf-7m or something (~90) with an athlon xp mobile 2500+ (~85). But, I haven't priced components all that much lately. Someone else may come up with something better.

edit: I guess that doesn't include ram. whoops...

I'll just stop posting now :p
Click to expand...
 
I plan on getting a few of these, so it will be worth your time.. I am expecting to start with 5 of them.. The cheaper the better...


unhappy_mage said:
I'm running the client I made on a machine right now... Total memory 377908K, 304708KB free. By my math that's only 80ish MB. Give me a minute and I'll try it with just a 128 in. Should work fine.

edit: works fine on only 128. For the server I also have 384 and all is used, but there's a hard drive to swap to on that machine. I'd get 256 for it anyway. Probably worth the extra $.

Those sempron combos look nice... that and 128 only adds up to $106. Look at it this way: if you were buying 2 170$ machines you could get 3 100$ ones for the same price. PSUs are only $16.50, that's a decent folding box for $140 shipped. Nice.
Click to expand...
 
Carnival Forces said:
okay then. i think this is possibly the most ghetto folding rig. ever.


ASUS Terminator Barebone System for Socket A at 333MHz FSB AMD CPU, Model A7VT
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProdu...ufactory=BROWSE
--$103.00

AMD Sempron 2200+ 1.5GHz, 333MHz FSB, 256KB L2 Processor - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProdu...ufactory=BROWSE
--$46.00

Rosewill 184-Pin 128MB DDR PC-3200, Model RW400/128 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-223-007&depa=0
--$21.00

IOplus PocketDisk 16MB USB Flash Drive
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...12154&CatId=379
--$8.99

Cooler Master CPU Cooler for Socket A/ 370, Model "DP5-5G11B"
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProdu...ufactory=BROWSE
--$4.99

TOTAL: $183.98

so, we use the CD Drive to boot up knoppix in text mode. (-20MB of available RAM, so we're down to 108MB). We download FAH to the USB Pen Drive, and run it from there.

1.5GHz box that will OC like a bitch. For under $200.00. I feel like a gawd.
Click to expand...
 
CF: all your links are belong to us.

with a case??? what are you thinking :p


 
moetop said:
#1 Which CPU will I get the most WU / Points (Folding @ Home) out of for the Dollar. I dont want anticidotal evidence I want real life experiance and examples. AMD, Intel, Hyperthreding, Celeron, Semperon, Athlon XP, ETC

#2 How much ram do I need for best performance. Running the smalest Linux Client, Or that new 60Mb version Happy mage keeps talking about.
Click to expand...
#1 - amd. sempron vs athlonxp vs a64... doesn't make much of a difference (not my direct experience, but what others have reported) i'd go sempron or aXP, whichever is better ghz/dollar ATM, just because for folding, a64's extra cost does not make up the difference.

#2 - if you have a server machine (should probably be 256mb because it has to do dhcp) then unhappy_mage's linux will work just fine on 128mb. linux itself apparently take 2.5mb memory on the netboot client now, and he's working on slimming that down.
and the only reason he's happy now is because of that.

cheap system:
Biostar M7VIG 400 - $43.00
Duron 1.8 - $50.00
Crucial PC3200 128mb - $24.77
Dynatron Copper CPU cooler - $8.55
Total: $126.32 + shipping (~$15)

leaves you "some" change for a decent PSU;) good luck!

P.S. - the duron was chosen over the sempron because the duron is 133fsb, and quite likely to do 166fsb without breaking a sweat. the biostar motherboard allows FSB adjustments. those, + copper cooler and pc3200, equals faster processor for faster folding.
P.P.S. - the case would be for those with drunk roomates and/or cats. or just regular cats.
 
moetop said:
Actualy that's close enough, and gives me a good Motherboard instead of some POS..

Keep the suggestions coming. Give yourself about $20-30 for ram.. so a processor / ram combo at 140-150 or less once again going for the best WU / score per $

You have this type of thing too. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-185-043&depa=0 But I havent been a fan of Cyrex (sp?) Processors
Click to expand...


those fold like the dead.
u_DR_K13

u_DR_K13
u_DR_K13

u_DR_K13
u_DR_K13

u_DR_K13
u_DR_K13

u_DR_K13
 
Ya I know the old Cyrex (Dammit I cant spell that word tonight) were crap especialy with math.. I just havent hand any exp with them in over 7 years. Good info, wont buy it.. :)

DR_K13 said:
those fold like the dead.
I have the server machine covered. I am going to run the Linux DHCP, Tftp, NFS server in a VMware session.

No case needed. I saw someone running a bunch of processors on some peg board.. I'm going with 1/4 inch masonite and drill it.. It's going to be a wall mount. or possibly hinge down from the ceiling.. Thanks for the suggestion..

rogue_jedi said:
if you have a server machine (should probably be 256mb because it has to do dhcp) then unhappy_mage's linux will work just fine on 128mb. linux itself apparently take 2.5mb memory on the netboot client now, and he's working on slimming that down. and the only reason he's happy now is because of that.

P.P.S. - the case would be for those with drunk roomates and/or cats. or just regular cats.
Keep the ideas coming.. Doen anybody know how hyperthreading affects performance?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
most people run two instances on machines with hyperthreading.
performance increase I think is 10-20% ish
 
however, stanford prefers that people with HT run just one, for various reasons. They say if you're into the points, then run 2 'cause it'll get you more, but if you're in it for the research, then run one.

oh and quote tags need [/quote] tags at the end, not more
tags.
Click to expand...
 
My Only Question to this whole thing is that Semperon is realy a 1.5Ghz, Not 2200Ghz. While I know that is ment to be comparable to 2200 in most things, is it in Folding @ home?
If so the AMD route would be the bigest bang for the buck.. If not I need to be aware when comparing..


unhappy_mage said:
I'm running the client I made on a machine right now... Total memory 377908K, 304708KB free. By my math that's only 80ish MB. Give me a minute and I'll try it with just a 128 in. Should work fine.

edit: works fine on only 128. For the server I also have 384 and all is used, but there's a hard drive to swap to on that machine. I'd get 256 for it anyway. Probably worth the extra $.

Those sempron combos look nice... that and 128 only adds up to $106. Look at it this way: if you were buying 2 170$ machines you could get 3 100$ ones for the same price. PSUs are only $16.50, that's a decent folding box for $140 shipped. Nice.
Click to expand...

Ya YA I was trying to get fancy with the quote thing and I messed it up..
 
probably not. F@H seems to like real ghz, and seems to ignore cache/memory (as long as it can stay in memory)

i'd get a duron at 1.8 over a sempron 2200.

and 2200ghz?? i don't think we're there quite yet. though it would rock to have one (or more) on team 33. ;)
 
moetop said:
My Only Question to this whole thing is that Semperon is realy a 1.5Ghz, Not 2200Ghz. While I know that is ment to be comparable to 2200 in most things, is it in Folding @ home?
If so the AMD route would be the bigest bang for the buck.. If not I need to be aware when comparing..
Click to expand...

AMD is usually the best bang for the buck. Very strong folders. Not that long ago I put a Biostar MB and a Sempron chip (not sure of the speed, runs at 1.8 GHZ though) in a case
with 256 megs of ram for about $150.00.
Decent folder even with everything intergrated.


 
I think AMD has always been best bang for the buck in terms of folding due to it's three FPU compared to the Pentium IV's 2 FPU.

Anyway, I have an Athlon64 3200+ @ 2.0Ghz and an AthlonXP 2400+ @ 2.0 Ghz. Cost difference aside, the AthlonXP lags the Athlon64 by about ~2-8% overall, depending on the protein (Some are ~25% difference). The AthlonXP has 256KB L2 while the Athlon64 has 1.0MB L2, so the performance delta is probably more due to the cache than anything else.

An AthlonXP with 512KB L2 will probably keep up well with Athlon64 solutions, and as their prices drop they shoud make decent - and cheap - folders.

You could pick up a KM400 Motherboard and a Duron/Sempron/AthlonXP for around $100 shipped, throw in 256MB of RAM for about $30 and a HSF for about $10 and you've got a decent folder for around $140 total. I wouldn't get less than 256MB of RAM because I have seen some proteins using >128MB of RAM recently.
 
I need to find my old spreadsheet where I breakdown the Price per Mhz, and see what the cheapest is. I did not want to do it, because it's a pain with the AMD's hiding there true MHZ.. It's a bit of manual data entry instead of cut paste from Pricewatch, but I think it's worth it this time..
 
Model Speed Price (Newegg) $/Ghz
Athlon XP w/ 512Kb Cache
XP 2500+ 1.83 $85.00 $46.45
XP 2600+ 1.90 $90.00 $47.37
XP 2800+ 2.08 $132.00 $63.46
XP 3000+ 2.16 $145.00 $67.13
XP 3200+ 2.20 $184.00 $83.64

Athlon XP w/ 256Kb Cache
XP 2000+ 1.67 $66.00 $39.52
XP 2100+ 1.73 $90.00 $52.02
XP 2200+ 1.80 $68.00 $37.78
XP 2400+ 2.00 $92.00 $46.00
XP 2600+ 2.13 $87.00 $40.85
XP 2700+ 2.17 $95.00 $43.78

AMD Duron w/ 64Kb Cache
Duron 1.6 1.60 $46.00 $28.75
Duron 1.8 1.80 $50.00 $27.78

AMD Sempron w/ 256Kb cache
2200+ 1.50 $50.00 $33.33
2300+ 1.58 $63.00 $39.87
2400+ 1.67 $63.50 $38.09
2500+ 1.75 $73.00 $41.71
2600+ 1.83 $86.00 $46.92
2800+ 2.00 $109.00 $54.50

Athlon 64 w/ 512Kb Cache Socket 754
A64 2800 1.80 $131.00 $72.78
A64 3000 2.00 $149.00 $74.50
A64 3200 2.20 $194.00 $88.18
A64 3400 2.40 $223.00 $92.92

Athlon 64 w/ 1MB Cache Socket 754
A64 3000 1.80 $155.00 $86.11
A64 3200 2.00 $192.50 $96.25
A64 3400 2.20 $221.00 $100.45
A64 3700 2.40 $458.00 $190.83

Athlon 64 w/512Kb Cache Socket 939
A64 3000 1.80 $225.00 $125.00
A64 3200 2.00 $210.00 $105.00
A64 3400 2.20 $269.00 $122.27
A64 3500 2.20 $272.00 $123.64
A64 3800 2.40 $608.00 $253.33

Pentium 4 w/ 512KB Cache 800 FSB "Northwood"
P4 2.4C 2.40 $135.00 $56.25
P4 2.6C 2.60 $159.00 $61.15
P4 2.8C 2.80 $196.00 $70.00
P4 3.0C 3.00 $199.00 $66.33
P4 3.2C 3.20 $234.00 $73.13
P4 3.4C 3.40 $335.00 $98.53

Pentium 4 w/ 1MB Cache "Prescott"
P4 2.8E 2.80 $159.00 $56.79
P4 3.0E 3.00 $179.00 $59.67
P4 3.2E 3.20 $219.00 $68.44
P4 3.4E 3.40 $279.00 $82.06
P4 3.6E 3.60 $450.00 $125.00
P4 3.8E 3.80 $795.00 $209.21

Celeron D w/256Kb Cache
Celeron 315 2.26 $66.99 $29.64
Celeron 320 2.40 $75.00 $31.25
Celeron 325 2.53 $85.00 $33.60
Celeron 330 2.66 $88.00 $33.08
Celeron 335 2.80 $92.00 $32.86
Celeron 340 2.93 $124.00 $42.32

Celeron D w/256Kb Cache, Socket T
Celeron 330J 2.53 $88.00 $34.78
Celeron 325J 2.66 $93.00 $34.96

Celeron w/128Kb Cache
Celeron 1.70 $52.00 $30.59
Celeron 1.80 $55.00 $30.56
Celeron 2.00 $62.00 $31.00
Celeron 2.40 $70.00 $29.17
Celeron 2.60 $88.00 $33.85
Celeron 2.80 $109.00 $38.93
 
Buckus - Thanks for taking care of that for me.. :) It's just what I wanted! According to that list, the Cellerons seem to be the best per Ghz, but I already know that doesent always add up to the best performance, hence AMD's naming scheme. Thanks for your time.

I think I have come to the conclusion that this could turn into a nice experiment. I plan on building 5 machines to start. I am going to make them all diffrent, but in the same price range. Once I get them folding I can monitor them and see which one is getting me the most bang for the buck in folding. After that I can add to the farm with the best performer.

Comments?
 
moetop said:
According to that list, the Cellerons seem to be the best per Ghz, but I already know that doesent always add up to the best performance, hence AMD's naming scheme.
Click to expand...

Yup, Celerons are junk. They fold only slightly better than Cyrix chips.

I think I have come to the conclusion that this could turn into a nice experiment. I plan on building 5 machines to start. I am going to make them all diffrent, but in the same price range. Once I get them folding I can monitor them and see which one is getting me the most bang for the buck in folding. After that I can add to the farm with the best performer.

Comments?
Click to expand...

Great idea!
 
I recently bought a ECS KM400 board with the Sempron 2200+ retail chip combo... pretty nice folder... I bought a case and powersupply with some RAM and a hard drive...

I overclocked that chip from 1.5 to 1.67GHz quite easily... and for comparison...


Name...............Processor..................................GHz......$$............Total_Pts......Total_Hrs.............Hours.......Years......Pts/Hr.....Pts/Wk......Pts/Mth.........Pts/Yr........Pts/Hr/GHz...Pts/Yr/$$.....$$/GHz

FoldingBox1......Sempron_2200+_@_1.67_GHz.....1.67......$51.00............544........153:53:20...........153.889.....0.018......3.535.....593.883......2580.561.......30966.736..........2.117.......607.191......30.539
Mom's_PC........Athlon_XP_2000+.........................1.67......$66.00........10884........3024:46:40........3024.778.....0.345.....3.598......604.511......2626.745.......31520.938..........2.155.......477.590.......39.521
Home_PC.........P4_2.4C_@_3.0_GHz...................3.00......$135.00.......42986.......11429:34:10.....11429.569....1.305......3.761......631.839.....2745.491.......32945.893..........1.254.......244.044.......45.000
Click to expand...


Of course, the $$ is based on current price (processor only).... I update it every few days from Newegg...

I have a couple Excel sheets with Processor,motherboard,etc,etc,etc prices... ranging from Athlon 2000+ up to Xeons...


Keep on Folding!!

 
Trick is that not all WU fold the same.

I am finding that the Tinker core loves my Athlons but Gromacs seems to thrive on Pentiums....I haven't done any full blown experiments and I am somewhat hardware limited. I have also noticed that between different Athlons, Ghz seems to be the big decider. I have the following types of processors:

Pentium II
Pentium M
Athlon XP (Thunderbird)
Athlon XP-M (Barton)
Athlon XP-M (Dublin "castrated Athlon 64")
Opteron
 
You should avoid km400 boards. Via Rhine 2/3 NICs are not well-supported in Linux.

Go for the asrock Sis chipset (microatx) on newegg. Its the only one from that chipset that can do 200 FSB.

Also consider getting 256MB ram for each client machine. You'd be able to do big packet gromacs units then (if you boot these in text mode) and tha'd give you a hug production boost since BP gromacs are worth 2x their benchmarked value.
 
argh... *smacks forehead with palm* I wish I would've known that before I bought the ECS/Sempron combo... I bought it specifically to learn linux on... even though it's running windows right now, after the holidays and a trip to FL, I plan on formatting for linux...

Is there any version of Linux that the KM400's LAN chip will readily work with? or is it hit and miss?

Is the ASRock "K7S41GX" SiS741GX Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL a good choice?

Keep on Folding!!

 
it's more kernel version than anything else in that area. i'd go with the most recent kernel, which will have to be downloaded, put on cd (if the lan doesn't work to transfer it that way) and then built with support for via rhine chipsets as a module or part of the kernel. or, you could get a cheap ($5) 10/100 lan card and use that instead of the onboard lan. either way works out alright. good luck, tho. shouldn't be too much of a problem to get sorted out... i didn't have much trouble when i was using a rhine adaptor (soyo dragon) a while ago (rh9... its been awhile) so it may not be an issue.
 
I think the AMD Duron at 1.6 Ghz or 1.8 Ghz are your best bets right now for price/performance. The core is faster than equivalent Semprons, FSB isn't going to make as much of a difference. L2 cache will not be as big of a factor with the huge 128 Kb L1 cache.
 
So maybe something like this

Motherboard

and

CPU

and

Ram

Looks like $140 shipped to my door. Is that the right chipset that you mentioned. I know it's a SIS, but there were more than one.
 
This is the one that can do 200FSB.

You could always check with Via to see if they have a linux driver for that 6105 Rhine 3 NIC. Last time I tried I couldn't get it working....
 
According to Newegg... and the ECS website... the KM400-M2 uses the VT6103 chipset for the LAN..... I think it's called Tahoe... is that supported in (any version of) Linux?

VIA Arena showed support for the VT6102 chipset... is there a HUGE difference between them?


Keep on Folding!!

 
Came up with another Question.

Do all the onboard video motherboards use sharred memory?

More speceficaly I know the asrock motherboards do use system (sharred) memory, but can you control how much is used. I have run into a few that do not let you specify, but instead will choose for you. It would sure be wastefull to get stuck with the video using up 64M of 256m when I am running linux in a command line mode.

If the asrock doesent let me dictate the memory, it may behove me to go with a diffrent one with non sharred memory if there is such a thing.
 
http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7s41.htm
yes it's shared, but you can adjust. I've got mobos with shared, and I just turn them down all the way (to 8mb) and it doesn't matter. 248 instead of 256 is no big deal. From the reports on mem usage with the big packets, they should *almost* fit in 128, but not quite, so the machines would crash. Get 256, the packets won't be getting any smaller.

With the 3 you suggested earlier, except a sempron 2400 retail instead of the duron (comes with HSF) I get $144. Good deal.
 
Some resources I found helpful:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=list&catalog=22&Type=Refurbished

www.marketproshows.com

http://search.ebay.com/Athlon-XP-1700_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

http://search.ebay.com/PC3200-256-M...tionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

In sum:

Board - $30 shipped.
Proc - $65 shipped (and it's an Athlon XP)
Memory - $45 shipped (PC3200 no less)
video - $5 (at the Marketpro show)
24x CD-ROM - $5 (at the Marketpro show)
Quantum ATA66 HDD - 20 GB - $10 (at the Marketpro show)
PSU - $10 (at the Marketpro show; used Fortron)
HSF - freebie
old ATX case - freebie (or one may feel free to use the obigatory pizza box).

~$170 USD total.

What that buys is at least 2.1 GHz at 200 MHz FSB.
 
New suggestion: what about a64? They apparently fold well for the gHz...

chaintech mobo 63.50
2800+ 119.00
power supply $17.50
256 mem $31

So it's 180 for the mobo/proc instead of 100. That puts the total system at $231 instead of $144, but it's a significantly faster system. Worth thinking about.
 
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