super budget performance desktop ~$500

J

jamestime88

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
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1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing?
I'm not really sure yet. I basically want the computer to be a jack-of-all-trades, light gaming, photoshop, multimedia, etc.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
The cheaper the better, I will spend more if it's worth it, less if it's not.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
US, Michigan, I plan on buying everything online.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, motherboard, ram, case, PSU, storage?

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
DVD writer and barracuda 1TB hdd

6) Will you be overclocking?
I would like the option at least

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
24" 1920x1200

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Doesn't really matter these days?

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
No.

Alright, now that we're through with that. I'm getting tired of my old athlon x2 desktop, there's just too many things I can't do now. I want to build a well rounded, cheap computer that will last me at least a few years. Everything should be taken into consideration but probably 90% of the usage will be streaming media and internet browsing. I mocked up a little product list, let me know if you guys have any critiques

case - Fractal Design Core 1000 Micro ATX

mobo - ASRock AMD A75 Micro ATX

PSU - ENERMAX NAXN ENP450AST 450W ATX12V Power Supply

RAM - Crucial Ballistix 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866

OS - Microsoft Windows 8 64-bit (Full Version) - OEM

HSF - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus

SSD - SAMSUNG 830 128GB (SSD)

CPU - AMD A10-5800K

As of this posting, the total for everything is $566.92
Please, any and all recommendations or comments are welcome, I havn't built a computer in 8 years.
 
Is the DVD burner IDE or SATA?
Do you absolutely need a mATX setup?
Any chance whatsoever of you adding a 3rd party GPU to the system?

Considering your use and your budget, why not do a prebuilt? It's a bit more cost-effective at your price point.

As for your build list, the PSU is not a good choice since it doesn't have APFC. As for the HSF, unless you're willing to say that your actual budget is $600, not $500, then no reason to get it.
 
Is the DVD burner IDE or SATA? - SATA
Do you absolutely need a mATX setup? - no, but i think i prefer it.
Any chance whatsoever of you adding a 3rd party GPU to the system? - If I get into computer gaming, I'd like to have the option. I don't care about having all the hyper-realistic graphics turned up, I just want the option to play current gen games.

Considering your use and your budget, why not do a prebuilt? It's a bit more cost-effective at your price point. - Maybe, I looked around at some prebuilts and didn't really find any with the right specs where it'd save me money. plus i like being able to overclock.

As for your build list, the PSU is not a good choice since it doesn't have APFC. As for the HSF, unless you're willing to say that your actual budget is $600, not $500, then no reason to get it. - I don't know what APFC is, can you explain? as for the HSF, I hear the trinity fans suck, and again with the overclocking thing. I guess it is closer to $600 though.
 
APFC is active power factor correction, any recent and worth touching PSU design has this. The lack of APFC is a big warning sign.

You can save some bucks on the windows license, if you have an existing windows install.
Check out www.windows.com for details.

Depending on your need to stay within budget, you may have to dump the SSD and go with a regular 500GB HDD.
 
jamestime88 said:
no, but i think i prefer it.
Click to expand...
OK, I asked that question because oddly enough an ATX case is gonna be more cost-effective than a mATX case since many $50 to $60 ATX cases comes with at least two fans and significantly better cable management whereas many mATX cases in that price range have only one fan, somewhat hard to cable manage but it is smaller. In order to get a really good mATX case, you're spending around $80 to $100 minimum.

jamestime88 said:
If I get into computer gaming, I'd like to have the option. I don't care about having all the hyper-realistic graphics turned up, I just want the option to play current gen games.
Click to expand...
Ok here's the deal: Your planned AMD APU and mobo setup really only makes sense if you're absolutely never going to add a 3rd party GPU and you don't care about the power use. The second you add that 3rd party GPU, you've effectively negated the only big advantage of the APU's: fast onboard video. If you're going to add a 3rd party GPU anyway, it's better for you to go with an Intel setup since Intel CPUs tend to perform a lot better than AMD CPUs in games (in terms of just CPU power and not onboard video power) and single threaded applications like web browsing and media playback. However, budget Intels do perform worse than AMD quad-cores in really heavily multi-threaded appliations like video, 3D, or audio editing. It's only your light gaming requirement and possibly lack of care about the power usage that's really tipping things in favor of AMD here.
jamestime88 said:
Maybe, I looked around at some prebuilts and didn't really find any with the right specs where it'd save me money.
Click to expand...
Right here:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...h&model_id=inspiron-660&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19
jamestime88 said:
plus i like being able to overclock.
Click to expand...
Just how bad do you need to be able to OC? I ask that because current budget Intels basically do not allow for overclocking at all. In addition, you would need to spend a bit more money on the mobo and case if you really want to OC that AMD APU.
jamestime88 said:
I don't know what APFC is, can you explain?
Click to expand...
Here's a quote:
Power Factor Correction:

The Power Factor of an AC electric power system is the ratio of the “real power” to the "apparent power."

(Paragraph from Dan's Data) Power factor correction (PFC) is, essentially, what you do to complex AC loads (such as PC switchmode power supplies) to make them act more like simple loads (such as toasters).

There are two types of PFC, Active PFC and Passive PFC. Active PFC uses a circuit to correct power factor. Active PFC is able to generate a theoretical power factor of over 95%. Active Power Factor Correction also markedly diminishes total harmonics, automatically corrects for AC input voltage, and is capable of a full range of input voltage. Since Active PFC is the more complex method of Power Factor Correction, it is definitely more expensive to produce an active PFC power supply.

Passive PFC uses a capacitive filter at the AC input to correct poor power factor. Passive PFC may be affected when environmental vibration occurs. Passive PFC requires that the AC input voltage be set manually. Passive PFC also does not use the full energy potential of the AC line.

In some parts of the world, customers of the utility companies are actually charged more for poor power factor. In the EU, you are simply not allowed to use an electronic device with a complex AC load without any kind of correction! So certain inexpensive power supplies are simply not available over in Europe.

Sometimes see certain models of power supplies available in the US with no PFC and available in the EU with PFC, but only capable of accepting a 230V input. Remember what I said about power supplies running more efficiently at 230V than they do at 115V? Same rule still applies here. The power factor correction circuitry isn’t going to get as hot with 230V coursing through it as it would with 115V because there is less current going through the circuit. Because less current is going through the circuitry, cheaper components can be used without any kind of performance or quality in service penalty. Makes you with the U.S. adopted 230V mains, doesn't it?

Despite being more efficient for your electric company, power factor may be less efficient to your power supply! The components used to correct power factor generate heat. Naturally, this heat didn’t come from nowhere. It’s using, and wasting, electricity. Furthermore, the heat being introduced to the other components of the power supply causing them to run hotter and therefore less efficient. Fortunately, power factor correction methods are becoming more and more efficient allowing for super-efficient power supplies WITH power factor correction.
Click to expand...

See that red voltage switch on the back of the PSU? That means it doesn't have APFC which means that it's an older PSU design. Newer PSus do not have that red voltage switch at all.
jamestime88 said:
as for the HSF, I hear the trinity fans suck, and again with the overclocking thing. I guess it is closer to $600 though.
Click to expand...
So just to be clear, your budget is a solid $600 now?
 
APFC is active power factor correction, any recent and worth touching PSU design has this. The lack of APFC is a big warning sign. - alright. how about Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W

You can save some bucks on the windows license, if you have an existing windows install.
Check out www.windows.com for details. - I only have a copy of windows vista from my current HP OEM, I assume it won't work...?

Depending on your need to stay within budget, you may have to dump the SSD and go with a regular 500GB HDD. - I have a 7200rpm barracuda 1TB that I would transfer over. I don't want to have to format it though because there's a good 50gb of stuff I don't want to lose on there. I don't really want to buy another magnetic drive, it feels like i'd be throwing money away.

My budget isn't a hard cap, I just don't want to pay for extra performance where I won't even see it, and I'm definitely not a power user.
 
I have a power cord, yes. What PSU would you recommend?

Also I'm not very familiar with windows 7 or 8. I hear lots of complaints about 8 but is there any real reason why it's worse besides people not liking the metro interface?
 
jamestime88 said:
Also I'm not very familiar with windows 7 or 8. I hear lots of complaints about 8 but is there any real reason why it's worse besides people not liking the metro interface?
Click to expand...

I really don't want to rehash that debate/argument at this point in time. Just look through the numerous Windows 8 threads in the Operating system subforum to get an idea of what's good or bad about Windows 8:
http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

And please answer my questions in post #5.
 
jamestime88 said:
You can save some bucks on the windows license, if you have an existing windows install.
Check out www.windows.com for details. - I only have a copy of windows vista from my current HP OEM, I assume it won't work...?
Click to expand...

I do not know about the licensing rules, but MS writes that you should get the Upgrade Assistant and it will handle everything for you.

If it's not legal due to you using an OEM license, then the Upgrade Assistant should inform you of this.

If the upgrade assistant allows you to buy 8 at 40$, then you haven't done anything wrong as you have bought an offer from MS and used what they have made available.
Heck, I qualified to receive the offer thanks to running the 8 RP for two months :)
I expect to use the same offer on my GF's old XP machine as even Windows XP qualifies.

Just remember to backup all your stuff before installing.

People complained about Vista when it launched, change = complaints.
 
OK, I asked that question because oddly enough an ATX case is gonna be more cost-effective than a mATX case since many $50 to $60 ATX cases comes with at least two fans and significantly better cable management whereas many mATX cases in that price range have only one fan, somewhat hard to cable manage but it is smaller. In order to get a really good mATX case, you're spending around $80 to $100 minimum.

- I read some good reviews on the core 1000, and it's $40. If I can get a better case for less
money, I don't care about the form factor too much.


Ok here's the deal: Your planned AMD APU and mobo setup really only makes sense if you're absolutely never going to add a 3rd party GPU and you don't care about the power use. The second you add that 3rd party GPU, you've effectively negated the only big advantage of the APU's: fast onboard video. If you're going to add a 3rd party GPU anyway, it's better for you to go with an Intel setup since Intel CPUs tend to perform a lot better than AMD CPUs in games (in terms of just CPU power and not onboard video power) and single threaded applications like web browsing and media playback. However, budget Intels do perform worse than AMD quad-cores in really heavily multi-threaded appliations like video, 3D, or audio editing. It's only your light gaming requirement and possibly lack of care about the power usage that's really tipping things in favor of AMD here.

- The i3's are good, but for me it would entirely change the build. The loss of the iGPU won't be worth the extra light-threaded performance to me, so I'd have to spend at least another $100 on a GPU just to match the AMD.

Right here:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...h&model_id=inspiron-660&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

- It's not bad, I think if I choose wisely I can get a better rounded system for just a little more money, plus the extra ease of upgrade, overclockability, and fun of assembly. I'm still not against buying an OEM, but it's going to need to be a clear winner.

Just how bad do you need to be able to OC? I ask that because current budget Intels basically do not allow for overclocking at all. In addition, you would need to spend a bit more money on the mobo and case if you really want to OC that AMD APU.

- Overclocking isn't a huge deal. It might be fun to mess around with a little. If I can get extra performance for free (or cheap), I'm not going to complain.

See that red voltage switch on the back of the PSU? That means it doesn't have APFC which means that it's an older PSU design. Newer PSus do not have that red voltage switch at all.

- Thanks for that

So just to be clear, your budget is a solid $600 now?

- There isn't a hard cap, which I know actually makes recommendations harder.. I just want to build a faster computer on the cheap, no point in throwing dollars at performance I'm not going to see.
 
jamestime88 said:
- I read some good reviews on the core 1000, and it's $40. If I can get a better case for less
money, I don't care about the form factor too much.
Click to expand...
The Core 1000 doesn't have free shipping on Newegg so it actually costs $47 shipped. Not really worth it at that price point considering this case exists:

jamestime88 said:
- The i3's are good, but for me it would entirely change the build. The loss of the iGPU won't be worth the extra light-threaded performance to me, so I'd have to spend at least another $100 on a GPU just to match the AMD.
Click to expand...

Ok, here's an Intel build:
$120 - Intel Core i3-2120
$105 - Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Intel B75 mATX Motherboard + G.Skill Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
$68 - Gigabyte GV-R667D3-1GI Radeon HD 6670 1GB PCI-E Video Card
$70 - Samsung 830 128GB SSD
$48 - Antec NEO ECO 400C 400W PSU
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$100 for whatever OS you choose.
---
Total: $561 shipped.

The GT 440 provides, at worst, the same performance as the included GPU in the A8-5800K but wil generally outperform it in most games. In addition, the Core i3 2125 will outperform the CPU in the A8-5800K in games. Not to mention that it would save you RAM since the onboard video of the A8-5800K will need to use the PC's RAM. PLus the lower voltage. The PSU is of significantly better quality than the Enermax. That NZXT Source 210 Elite is far better bang for the buck than the Core 1000 since it has significantly better cable management, an extra $140mm fan, and front panel USB 3.0 for just $3 more than the Core 1000.

If there's one part you have to buy TODAY, it is that SSD as it's currently on sale for $70.

However if you still want to stick with AMD, still go with the SSD deal, PSU, and case I listed above and get this cheaper but decent RAM instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550
 
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Where in Michigan? Because if you are close enough to the Detroit/Madison Heights Micro Center, both the i3-2125 SB and the i3-3220 IB are $99. I just picked up a 3220 yesterday in Chicago and it was something like $107 with tax.

Also, and I am not sure what the experts like Danny think about this deal but there is an $87 (including ship) Biostar mobo with 8GB of free RAM here. I jumped on that deal as I really couldn't see anything obviously wrong/bad about the mobo.

Edit to add: That $70 Samsung 830 deal has me sick at the moment. I wish I hadn't seen that.
 
beto said:
Also, and I am not sure what the experts like Danny think about this deal but there is an $87 (including ship) Biostar mobo with 8GB of free RAM here. I jumped on that deal as I really couldn't see anything obviously wrong/bad about the mobo.
Click to expand...
That looks like a great combo but there's basically no info about that mobo's reliability and such. With that said, it's not a bad gamble.
 
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