Sweet Spot Poormans IB Gaming Rig.

[I3ig Al]

Hello [H]! Longtime lurker here finally registered to ask for some advice. With all the awesome games coming out in the months ahead, I decided that it is time to rebuild with what little funds I can scrape together.

My two previous systems are an Athlon II X4 640 / Radeon 5570 / 4gig ram
and before that
Intel Core2Duo e6600 / Geforce 7600GT / 2gig ram

I tend to stretch things to the absolute max as you can see, so with this build I am going for maximum performance:dollar and hardware longevity.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
Gaming, Video encoding, Media server for the house.
2) What's your budget?
1,000, Absolute; Preferably less.
3) Which country do you live in?
Sebastopol CA, an hour north of San Fran.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
Case, Mobo, CPU + HSF, GPU, RAM, SSD, Mouse + Pad
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
PSU : PCP&C Silencer 750. Newegg Link
HDD (WD5000KS, 500gb 7200rpm)
Keyboard
6) Will you be overclocking?
Definately, as much as I can without getting to hot/noisy.
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
Dell 24" 1920x1200
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
May 20 is when I get the last big chunk of money. I have spent 130 already, have ~650 on hand right now, and will be getting ~400-450 on May 20.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Can't think of any absolute must haves but its nice to keep options there if I change my mind later.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yup, Win7 x64


Parts I am looking at right now, based on online research and a healthy reading of Maximum PC.

Note: Most of my shopping has been done on Amazon; comparable prices, no tax, free shipping. I am open to suggestion however.

• Case: Corsair Carbide 400R. $100 Cheap with decent quality, smallish size without being cramped, nice aesthetic. My last case purchase for a personal build was a CM Stacker 830 and I was a highly regretted impulse buy...

• Mobo: ASUS P8Z77-V. $200. Not entirely settled on this. I want to OC, I hear good things about ASUS, and The features are nice. I will eventually Crossfire, however I will likely not use RAID or USB3.0/eSATA. The built in WiFi is nice since I may or may not be within ethernet reach depending on how we arrange things. Not sure what else to factor in.

•CPU: 3570K. $230. Just snagged it on Tiger Direct for the VISA 10$ and Rebate 20$. Nothin much to say on this one

•HSF: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. $35. Lots of good reviews, MaxPC KickAss award, nice price.

•GPU: XFX Radeon 7770 DD Black Ed. $160. The Super Overclock Edition reviewed here on [H] is available direct from XFX for $172, and nowhere else, not sure what to do here but probably need to just pony up another ten. Nice power usage, great performance for the price imo. I wanted to see Nvidia's answer to the 7770 but I can't wait anymore.

•RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x4gb 1600MHz. $50. I see little value in 16gb RAM for single monitor gaming, but I admit I don't know the details. Corsair is a long trusted brand of mine, back to the first generation of Dominater RAM. 1600MHz can be easily bumped to 1866MHz from what I have read. Don't know much about Speed Vs. Timings.

•SSD: OCZ Agility3 120gb. $130. Snagged this when the HardOCP coupon was active.

•Mouse: Steelseries Diablo 3. $66. Replacing a first gen Logitech G5 I have been using for six years. I am looking for supreme durability and comfort in hand. I do not need crazy bells and whistles or pro gaming precision.

•Mousepad: XTRAC Ripper XL. $23. Replacing an Everglide Titan Monstermat, also six years old. I don't think I need it so big (14" x 18") but I do like to have some room to move.


This machine is 90% gaming, the rest being media intake. Netflix/Pandora, DVD rips for the home, yadda yadda. I will not be upgrading the 24" monitor in the foreseeable future. triplewide and the Eyefinity to drive is it completely out of my reach.

Games I play/will play: WoW, D3, BF3, GW2, LoL, Random Steam Sales. Nothing system crushing, but I like my eyecandy to the max when possible. I am perfectly willing to drop a notch and ensure 60fps however, wich is why the 7770 looks like a perfect fit.

The one major consideration I have is dropping down to a Carbide 300R and an ASUS Maximus V Gene mATX. This box is going to be in an apartment bedroom that is pretty cramped which is why im ditching the Stacker 830. It will also be left on alot so noise and heat output are of concern. I have three 12cm fans on hand to stick in whichever case I get.

I am not sure on what exactly the differences would be except the Newegg comparison here, any input is greatly appreciated.

P8Z77 Vs Maximus V Gene

Sorry for the super longass post, This is my first build in a couple years and on such a tight budget, I want it to be exactly right.

Thank you all for reading and I look forward to all advice/suggestions/criticism.

I3ig Al

 

[Dangman]

That SSD wasn't a good choice. Not only is it a not-so reliable Sandforce based SSD, it's actually one of the slower Sandforce SSDs. Then there's OCZ's relatively poor customer support. If possible, I'd try to return that OCZ SSD and go with this significantly faster, more reliable, and better supported SSD for $5 less:
$125 - Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SSD

The Hyper 212 Evo is a good HSF but a little overpriced since the Hyper 212+ costs $10 less and is only 2-3C hotter. Considering your tight budget, we're gonna need every bit of saving possible so I recommend dropping down to the Hyper 212+:
$25 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

That RAM is not going to work as the heatsinks of that RAM will definitely interefere with either Hyper 212 HSF. Frequency and timings generally don't matter with Intel CPUs so drop the RAM down to this:
$40 - Corsair CMV8GX3M2A1333C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Considering that this is meant to be a gaming PC, you're spending too much on the mobo and too little on the video card. Especially considering your 1920x1080 resolution and that you want to play BF3. If you've gone with the abvoe changes that frees up $25. Combine that with the $6 left over in your budget with the original list and you have $31 extra to play with.

So grab this mobo and GPU:
$160 - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard
$230 - Sapphire Radeon HD 6950 2GB PCI-E Video Card
----
Total: $390 shipped.

With the above changes you should be at $999 give or take. The main parts you should buy ASAP would be the SSD and video card as those are basically sale prices that won't last long.

 

[I3ig Al]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply Danny. I am going to "counter discuss" with you here, please don't take it as the newb arguing with the vet. As I said in my OP I just want this build to be perfect.

SSD: I bought the Agi3 based on the largely favorable reviews found on Newegg, Continued recommendation of MaximumPC, and general discussion of SSD controllers. It was my understanding that the SF-2281 was the top pick and outdid the competition. I can see though if the agi is the slowest of the "best", that the best of the second best could outdo it. I also have no prior experience with either OCZ or Crucial.

HSF: Makes sense to me. I might do some voltage tweaking but I like to play it safe, and if its not extreme, 3 degrees wont break it.

RAM: The heat spreaders I figured would be ok if they were in the outer pair of slots, but I wasn't 100%. The timing's/speed of the RAM I also discovered has little bearing on real world performance, except a small bump between 1333 and 1600, as discussed at AnandTech. I was thinking the bump in speed and extra overhead for future boosts might be worth it, but I am now looking at your suggestion. I also found THIS RAM, but the only difference I see is 8$ more expensive for a higher voltage used?

GPU: I am really keen on getting a 7xxx series card, for the new power efficiency, and also for a future Crossfire boost. If I drop out the mouse and pad for now, cheaper HSF, cheaper RAM, cheaper Mobo, and push that over to GPU, would an XFX 7850 be a good choice? Newegg Link

Mobo: Looking more carefully at the ASUS boards I do see alot of features that would be nice but I probably would not use during the life of the board. GigaByte boards appear much leaner and to the point, so thanks for bringing that to me.

I am still very curious about going mATX in the Carbide 300R. the mATX GigaByte board seems identical to the ATX version except less USB3.0 headers and less fan headers. I don't have any external drives or USB3 thumb drives, and I can use splitters/molex on the fans... would the CM 212 fit in a Carbide 300R? would all that hardware do ok in such a small case?

New Buy List:
Carbide 400R: $100
3570k: $230
Gigabyte UD3H: $160
CM212+: $25
Crucial m4: $125
Corsair RAM: $40
XFX7850: $270

New Total: $825

That seems much lower than I expected but if I'm right, that means I can still afford the new mouse and pad?

Thanks again!

I3ig Al

 

[Dangman]

SSD: I bought the Agi3 based on the largely favorable reviews found on Newegg, Continued recommendation of MaximumPC, and general discussion of SSD controllers. It was my understanding that the SF-2281 was the top pick and outdid the competition. I can see though if the agi is the slowest of the "best", that the best of the second best could outdo it. I also have no prior experience with either OCZ or Crucial.

Unfortuantely a lot of those reviews and posts gloss over or totally ignore the issues with the Sandforce controller.

I also found THIS RAM, but the only difference I see is 8$ more expensive for a higher voltage used?

Definitely do not go with that RAM as current Intel CPUs do not like RAM voltage above 1.5V. As such, that Corsair RAM might end up harming the CPU.

GPU: I am really keen on getting a 7xxx series card, for the new power efficiency, and also for a future Crossfire boost. If I drop out the mouse and pad for now, cheaper HSF, cheaper RAM, cheaper Mobo, and push that over to GPU, would an XFX 7850 be a good choice? Newegg Link

Not really. You're in CA so that means you're paying sales tax if buying from Newegg. So that means that the HD 7850 would end up costing you around $300, $70 more than the HD 6950 2GB. The two cards basically trade blows depending on the game. As such, it's not worth it IMO based on price to performance. Especially considering that at that point, there's only a $50 difference between the HD 7850 and the faster HD 7870.

I am still very curious about going mATX in the Carbide 300R. the mATX GigaByte board seems identical to the ATX version except less USB3.0 headers and less fan headers. I don't have any external drives or USB3 thumb drives, and I can use splitters/molex on the fans... would the CM 212 fit in a Carbide 300R? would all that hardware do ok in such a small case?

The 300R is a normal ATX case. It's only an inch or so smaller than the 400R. So little reason to go with the mATX mobos when the case can easily fit an ATX mobo. The Hyper 212+ should fit the 300R.

 

[I3ig Al]

Unfortuantely a lot of those reviews and posts gloss over or totally ignore the issues with the Sandforce controller.

Duly noted. I have an RMA set for the Agi3. return shipping is 10$ but if it saves me from a dead drive, well worth it.

Definitely do not go with that RAM as current Intel CPUs do not like RAM voltage above 1.5V. As such, that Corsair RAM might end up harming the CPU.

Learn something new every day, thanks.

The 300R is a normal ATX case.

Derp, Should have read harder. Aside from that, Would there be any Disadvantage from going mATX and a smaller box? If it would perform as well and not have heat issues, I would like to get small. any mATX case you could recommend?

Not really. You're in CA so that means you're paying sales tax if buying from Newegg. So that means that the HD 7850 would end up costing you around $300, $70 more than the HD 6950 2GB. The two cards basically trade blows depending on the game. As such, it's not worth it IMO based on price to performance. Especially considering that at that point, there's only a $50 difference between the HD 7850 and the faster HD 7870.

I was only linking Newegg for the easier spec viewing, I will buy on Amazon for the no tax free shipping.

If the the 6950 and the 7850 are a match performance wise, I am willing to spend a bit more for the more efficient design of the 7850. I will be using this GPU for at the very least two years, maybe as long as four. Also, it will be a lot easier to get a second 7850 in a year or two than a 6950. Looking for longevity here.

I keep bringing up XFX because it is a brand I have experience with, however it appears that their 7850 lineup is nonexistent, what other brand should I look into?

I am not just dismissing your 6950 suggestion of course, merely trying to find a way to work in the 7850 if possible.

EDIT: What about this: Sapphire 7850, $260

I3ig Al

 

[Dangman]

Derp, Should have read harder. Aside from that, Would there be any Disadvantage from going mATX and a smaller box? If it would perform as well and not have heat issues, I would like to get small. any mATX case you could recommend?

The main disadvantages are the increased heat, hard to cablemanage, and not so great price to performance ratio for the cases.

While people have and still run SLI/Crossfire setups in a mATX setup, those kinds of setups generally run significantly hotter than they would in a ATX setup since the two cards are placed right on top of the other. With an ATX setup, there's usualy an expansion slot worth of space between the two cards which allows for lower temperatures. As such, if you're actually serious about Crossfire/SLI, then I would avoid mATX altogether and stick with ATX.

Your PSU is a bit long which will cause you issues with a lot of mATX cases out there. Hence why it's generally recommended to use a modular PSU if going with a mATX setup.

I was only linking Newegg for the easier spec viewing, I will buy on Amazon for the no tax free shipping.

With the exception of a Sapphire HD 7850, I haven't seen any HD 7850 from Amazon.com proper.

I keep bringing up XFX because it is a brand I have experience with, however it appears that their 7850 lineup is nonexistent, what other brand should I look into?

Asus, Gigabyte, MSI. Sapphire if you have no choice.

 

[I3ig Al]

ook I will stick to ATX then, anything is smaller than my Stacker 830

My second build Lineup, with your help:

3570k: $230
UD3H: $160
ASUS 7850 $250
Crucial m4: $125
Carbide 400R: $100
Corsair 1333: $40
CM212+: $25
D3 Mouse: $66
Mousepad: $23

New Total: $1,019

mmm... 19 over my budget is managble, or I can wait on the mouse/pad.

Thanks a ton for the discussion and suggestions Danny, with your help I will definately be a happy gamer. If everything looks good to you, I'm going to start ordering with that Asus card, since its a limited availability.

 

[Dangman]

I don't know much about mouse and mousepads so I recommend hitting up our Mice and Keyboard subforum for advice on those items:
http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=124

The rest of the setup looks fine.

 

[Woofer00]

Re: the 7770, the Gigabyte variant got a bad rap in its [H] review for OC, but if you have a Microcenter near you, this might be worth looking at: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0385588

At $110 after MIR, I couldn't pass it up for my i5-2500k build.

 

[I3ig Al]

Thanks for the post Woofer, but I got the ASUS 7850 on the way and I don't think I could send it back

 

[Woofer00]

With a 7850 on the way, I wouldn't either

 

[J Macker]

I own both the Xtrac Ripper XL and XXL. I use the XL at work and the XXL at home. The edges on the XL have started to fray because I tend to move my keyboard around at work and it occasionally rubs the mousepad.

I also own 3 Ratpadz XTs, and switched to the Ripper for the thinner, larger surface.

I would recommend purchasing the XXL and either using it as is, or cutting it in 1/2 so you basically get 2-for-1 pricing. $25 for the XL is a ripoff when the XXL is the same price.

 

[I3ig Al]

Oh hey thanks Macker! I totally discounted the XXL because its not quite big enough to fit under my MS ergonomic 4000 keyboard, sliced in two it will be perfect. 18" squares, I could double layer them and get a Qck super heavy or just keep a backup for the days I decide to dump my drink