Switching to dSLR

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benamaster

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
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I have used mainly point and shoot cameras like the Sony F717 but finally want to make the switch to a dSLR. I did the reading on the Canon 30D and the Nikon D200 but am unsure what to buy. The no Fully Auto mode on the D200 kind of makes me wonder if it is a good starting point. I even considered the Canon 5D. What is the best starter dSLR?

I don't want to go crazy but 2 lenses and a body for under 4k.
 
Hey I switched over from a Sony F717 to DSLR just last year. Great jump. I had to go with the rebel xt, because my gf at the time like how it fitted her hands. If I had to redo it I would of got the 20D, if I did it today I would get the 30D.

Canon 30D Digital SLR w/ 18-55mm Lens
$1499 - 15% TJH2J?09?9WDTG (150 uses) - $60 $XX9BNPKP49TM0 = $1214
Lowest reputable price on Pricegrabber is $1354.
Canon EOS 5D Digital SLR Camera
$3299 - 15% 6X?W48TV$HZZM? (25 uses) - $60 $XX9BNPKP49TM0 - $300MIR = $2444
 
The main question is how serious do u want to take your photography? I knew zilch about photography but wanted to learn and get into it, and the XT seemed the best way to do it w/o blowing the bank account. I think you could actually rent the Canon EOS from some palces for a few days at a time if u wanted to test one out. But since you have 4k to spend, i guess you might as well look at the 30D and a few good lenses.
 
Good lens to start out with are the (if you go canon's route) 50 f/1.8, 17-85 IS, 24-70L f/2.8, or the 24-105L IS(which I am getting real soon :) )
 
I almost got a 20D over a year ago but decided against it. I guess the 5D is the way to go!

Thanks darktiger for the coupons. I think I might go with BH because there were some photo show coupon deals.

Anyone think I should get a D200 over a 5D? I really like Canon and I have their SX50 projector with their glass and it is amazing. I just wish I had a Camera store to try the cameras out at.
 
Well the D200 is not an auto camera and, it will require a steeper learning curve. As was asked how seriously do you want to get into it. Also have you had a 35mm before this? If so was it a Cannon and, do you still have the glass for it? If not think about the D70 if you want the auto functions. You can learn the fine art of photography through websites and, books. Plus the great thing about digital is if the pic doesnt work out you can delete it and, try something diffrent right away. So learning is fairly fast to me and, it isnt really bad as, with film, where you got the oh no back from processing. I have been shooting more in manual mode on my D50 just to get in practice for, my D200.
 
I want to get serious over the summer. I like the 18-200mm lens for the Nikon which would be great for traveling. I just don't know if its worth it to spend more to get the 5D over the D200. I have never shot an SLR before.
 
If you have $4k to spend, do it wisely.

$650 gets you a D70S body
$750 18-200VR lens
$315 SB800 speedlight
$40 spare battery

With $2245 left over you could consider:
- a 300 f/4 and a nice tripod (CF Gitzo with an RRS B55) - add a Canon 500D to that for macro!
- or an 85 f/1.4 and a few Alien Bees

etc, etc

Don't blow it all on a body to start. I'm sure some of the Canon users could give you a similar list with a 20D
 
Thanks PS-RagE, Its hard to decide where to invest in glass. I used to be a Canon fan but the D200 just looks so good. I like the fully auto mode on the 5D also.
 
Yeah but the D200 is geard more toward profesionals, means that it's not an easy camera to begin with because in the wrong hands the pictures will look like crap, is a hell of a camera but i'll only go where you point it. The advantage to the 30d-5d is that it has the auto mode so if your wife or girlfriend uses it shell be able to use it and get decent pics, sometimes you need a quick shot and auto comes handy. D200 is an exellent camera if you know what your doing, if you plans of doing a lotta low light shots I would avoid it because it has high noise above 800 iso. If your got a good hold of DSLR go with a D200, If you want something with low noise 30D, if your financially blessed then a 5D with a canon L lens.
 
if you're going Canon, here's my $4K list:

20D - $1050
24-70 f/2.8- $1100
70-200 f/4 - $550
35 f/2 - $230
17-40 f/4 or 10-22 - ~$700

You'll have 3 *sharp* zoom lenses, a nice indoor prime that's a normal equivalent on the 20D and have a couple hundred left over for memory cards and other accessories.

This is a pretty generic list though. Your optimal choices will depend on the kind of photography you see yourself doing. If you're doing wildlife or nature stuff you'd want a larger telephoto and a tripod. If you're doing landscapes you could probably skip the 24-70 and use the 17-40. If you're indoors a lot you might want a flash, or a couple fast primes instead of the telezoom.
 
Man fugu, that is a nice list. I think it is too overwelming for a beginner. If he jumps into a whole bunch of "L" lens, he might not develop the skills necessary. I say a 20 or 30D, with something like a 17-85IS. I think that is a good beginner lens.....
 
darktiger said:
Man fugu, that is a nice list. I think it is too overwelming for a beginner. If he jumps into a whole bunch of "L" lens, he might not develop the skills necessary. I say a 20 or 30D, with something like a 17-85IS. I think that is a good beginner lens.....
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What skills would a 17-85 teach you that an L-zoom wouldn't? I could see starting with a prime rather than a zoom, but I don't think there's any inherrent disadvantage to starting out with L glass aside from the cost. If he's willing to spend the money, why not get good equipment that he won't have to replace later?
 
True, i would hate to see him to spend all that money and then realize 6 months later that DSLR is not for him. I wish I started out with a M5 for my first car many many moons ago, instead of my POS first car. :) . I wish I started out with "L" series lens when i first got my camera :(.....
 
I'd rather start with L glass than some EF-S mount glass that wouldn't mount up to a better camera. I really like the 5D and every thing I read says its the top camera under $3,500. So even if I start with a 20D or 30D I would have something I could upgrade too.

Thanks to fugu for the great list!
 
Oh the questions Nikon or Canon. Let me make this very simple for you. First and foremost forget the camera body they are disposable.

Now take a deep breath and relax. Now for the important stuff.

Now think what you want to take pictures of, then learn what camera systems(not to be confused solely with the camera body) people use to get good pictures of what you want to take pictures of.

Find what you need in lenses, memory, lighting, and accessories that you will need to get the results you want. What good is a killer camera body if your lens can only get 40 pixels of information on the subject because you didnt get the right lens?

Then put it together in a package to see what system works best for you. I promise you this Canon or Nikon they are both good, each has a great side(Canon has smooth pictures Nikons have great metering) and each has a disadvantage(Canons metering Nikons pictures tend to be noisier).

Both can be accounted for and fixed with proper skill with your camera. The reason I stuck with Canon I love the huge L series lenses. Oh ya one more thing to mention their is no cure for L Series Fever or Nikkor Flu you've been warned.
 
I think a Canon 20D would be great to use at the moment. People nowadays are switching to the 5D from their 20d's. Try www.Fredmiranda.com to get your camera. Thats where I buy all of my gear. People have decent prices compared to retail. Give that a try and buy lenses especially the "L" glass. You wont regret it.
 
If I had $4k:

Canon 30D $1300
70-200mm F 2.8L $1200
28-75mm F2.8 $400 (not L glass but a great lens)
Battery Grip ~$200
3 Batteries ~$100
2GB Transend 120X CF card $150
6 GB Micro Drive $150
Tripod ~$150
Camera Case ~$60
Filters for lenses ~$60 Go cheap beacuse they are easy to take off for imporant shots but when the weather is bad and you have to wipe down your lens often or want to have extra protection from little fingers prints they are great.
 
What does everyone think of the 24-105 f/4L? Would be be a good lens to travel with? I think I might save a little more and go with the lenses everyone mentions but go with the 5D.
 
the 24-105 would be the perfect lens on a ff camera. I just bought my 24-105L, and feel it is an awesome lens. Since I only have had it for a few hours, I am still trying to find time to play with it. Yeah i can see why people like "L" lens. I just did not know what I was missing...
 
benamaster said:
What does everyone think of the 24-105 f/4L? Would be be a good lens to travel with? I think I might save a little more and go with the lenses everyone mentions but go with the 5D.
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I find that you end up needing an extra lens with the 24-105 f/4L, You end up a little short on the long end, thus most people buy a 200mm prime but then your stuck with a non zoom lens.

Hence the sweet spot of with 2 lenses coveing all your range at F2.8 with the 24-70 F2.8L and the 70-200 F2.8L. To be honest I rarely use F3.5 or lower in day to day stuff but when you lack light, or shooting fast action, or you want to control Depth of Feild F2.8 is priceless when you dont have it and need it on the other hand it adds a few pounds and dollars over slower lenses if you dont need it.

Also remember you get the 1.6x crop factor with the 30D vs the 5D so unless your a wide angel person fan you get more reach for your dollar with your optics. Also you have to accout for 1.5x the file size over the 30D.

Not to mention that the 20/30D can to 18"x 20" prints and make them beautiful the 5D may be overkill. Also camera bodies come down if price where optics are a longer term investment that will outlast your camera bdy many times over I find it best to start with the best glass and let the bodies catch up. Then one more thing to consider at 12mp and up cheap lenses with show flaws in the glass so only the high end L glass will do. The 1Ds MK II shows flaws in the best lenses optics at 16mp.
 
I might go with the 24-70 F2.8L and the 70-200 F2.8L. Is it good to get the 70-200 with IS or save and go with out IS?
 
benamaster said:
I might go with the 24-70 F2.8L and the 70-200 F2.8L. Is it good to get the 70-200 with IS or save and go with out IS?
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If you're getting a 5D those two will generally be a good combo as far as having your focal lengths covered. 24 is plenty wide on FF, so the 17-40 will be less important. Personally I'd save for the IS version of the 70-200, it'll save you the trouble of packing a monopod.

The one drawback would be weight. The 24-105 would be a better outdoor walkaround lens in that respect.
 
I'll be walking around Disney World and need to get a few group shots.

I kind of thought about these lenses.

16-35mm f/2.8 (Group Shots)
24-105 f/4 (Walk Around)
70-200 f/2.8 with IS
 
On a 5D, 24mm should be wide enough for group shots. At the wider end of the 16-35, people will start looking pretty distorted. Having a super wide is pretty fun though, so you still might want to get the lens.
 
I find most the time 24mm is really wide except in cramped areas like small bars and restaurant booths, thus for the most bang for the bug and so you dont overlap your coverage to much a 24-70 F2.8L would be far better than the 24-105 F4L also you will find lighting to be poorer in small areas and the extra stop very important with the wider angle. Also if your worried about wide angle go with a prime they are far sharper and more cost effective and the difference between the few mm can be made up by camera placement.

I.S. is an very nice thing to have but it doesnt account for subject blur due to the subjects motion. So I have found it to be useless because a good tripod(IS doesnt work with a tripod) can do even more for a picture than IS and for far less, not to even count you may find need a tripod anyways for longer exposures.

Also dont forget the cost of:
-Battery grip and extra batteries a must for heavy lenses and long outing
-Two types of memory card and long trip storage 1 fast card like a 120x 2 GB CF card a 4-8GB microdrive for slower write speed but huge storage and if you dont have a laptop with a huge HDD a Epson P-4000 for storage to clear your cards onto an 80GB HDD.
-Tripod a $50 tripod will sway or bend under the weight of the 70-200mm F2.8L(I know) so really test them well under the heaviest loaded conditions.
-Flash(?) is a must have for a 5D because it doesnt have a built in flash like the 30D also a flash can be nessary mattering the type of photography your doing. Also many Photographers like the ST-E2 trnasmitter for low light IR focus assist or to use several flashes to light up a larger subject.
 
Is the battery grip necessary or is it ok to just change batteries? I'm set on CF cards and I have a Bogen/Manfrotto legs which I need a Photo Head.

For a flash I think I will go with the 580EX.

I will look into maybe a prime shorter than 24mm.

Thanks to everyone for the tips!
 
Well it isnt like it wont work without the grip, but on the other hand once you have had a heavy long lens with and without the battery grip you will run out and buy one. Then the fact you have twice the power aka twice the shot without having to swap batteries. The best part about the grip is the vertical shutter so you can turn the camera to take a vertical shot and can use the same controls your used to to change the settings with the contol wheel and vertical shutter.

Also are you going to shoot RAW? Because a RAW file takes ~12.9MB + the size JPEG image you select for your review images and if you convert the raw file to a 16 bit tiff file to keep the extra dynamic range and prevent the loss of quality(TIFF is a lossless format) over 8 bit JPEG's your looking at 73MB per tiff file.
 
benamaster said:
Would anyone think the Sigma 10-22 would be better than the 16-35?
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Take a look at the Tokina 12-24. Really good lens for the $$$.
 
I will probably shoot RAW once I get comfortable with the Program AE mode. At first I am sure I'll be using Auto just to see what the camera suggests and then it won't let you do RAW.
 
I really hate AE modes I mean they work but not like full manutal modes once you learn to meter a shot with your eye. I have found that most of the time I blame the camera is AE mode for missing a shot when it still was my fault so I use full manual mode. Its much easier than it sounds once you learn the effect on the settings. You are right there is a harsh learning curve for a P&S to DSLR so maybe check what setting are giving you what type of shots.

Ive had my 300D for almost 2 years now and I still havent "mastered" it I mean im good with it never leaves manual mode but I still can get better(who cant?)

Also mattering what your shooting you may find you like JPEG over RAW at times becuase RAW require postprocessing to get them to be ready to take to a lab or share with friend nothing is worse than having to batch process a few hundred RAW pictures becuase you forgot your in RAW mode.
 
I was playing with my F717 and seeing what it is using as far as ISO, EV, and Aperature last night and it really wasn't that hard. The thing I like about Canon is that from the 300D to the 5D they all have Auto Modes to learn a little.
 
Get a camera with auto modes. I shoot manual mostly, but went shooting with a person that used auto mostly, and when auto wouldn't cut it, then went manual. I use a 20d, she uses a Rebel xt, both have awesome auto modes. The mode for moving objects blew me away. I've shot over 5000 frames on my 20d, and never considered the auto modes as IO thought they were for noobs. I couldn't have been more wrong. Now, I use the auto modes and manual mode equally. I can't vouch for all cameras, but the EOS auto modes are exceptional. And as far as lenses go, I have a few, but the one I uses the most is the 18-200 from Promaster. Costed under $350 locally when it 1st hit. No IS either. I think it'd be cool though, but you learn quickly to hold that camera steady. I held my camera steady for a 6 second exposeure. And 6 seconds is an eternity. It takes lots of practice and breathing control. My friend couldn't do it though. hehe I was a night shot of the Lighthouse on Cape May. Werd.
 
Rooster, that is exactly why I need an auto mode. I'll look at the Promaster lens but I'd rather go with an L lens on the 5D.

I really like the 24-105 L because of the IS sometimes its hard to hold a camera steady but I find that easier with the heaver F717 over my lighter Sony P200. I think I am going to start with a 50 f/1.4 Prime, 24-105 f/4L, and the 70-200 f/2.8 IS. Is B & H the place to buy from?
 
I use to use A/E modes. And still do one in a while. But 95% of the time I use Manual. I guess it helps me learn what to do and what not to do. I also shot RAW, but then again I like to PP my pictures. I love the flexiblity it gives me.

I held my camera steady for a 6 second exposeure. And 6 seconds is an eternity. It takes lots of practice and breathing control.
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Actually I do this all the time, but then again I use to be a sniper in the Marine Corps. But since I got a lens(24-105) with IS a few days ago, I actually like it.
 
But it did not beat those dell coupons I posted a few days ago...
 
darktiger said:
But it did not beat those dell coupons I posted a few days ago...
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I couldn't get them to work. They went pretty fast. I agree Dell had a great deal.
 
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