Tagan Says [H] Reviews are Paid For.....

ittech said:
That's not a good attitude, IMO, but yeah things are getting much worse.

I used to only buy PCPC psu's for years and years and my last system ended up with a tagan 900W high end unit which sh*t a brick after 8 months of use... The same system also had an ASUS board in it go really flaky, with ASUS nowhere to be found for an RMA.

Apparently ASUS forwards RMA requests to /dev/null, and tagan wasn't exactly expedient in replacing the PSU either, only 3 weeks without a PSU... So of course I had to just order another PSU.

I'm really tired of the "good" companies getting good and then cheaping up and releasing crap after they got a good name.

Makes me want to just buy a dell with a 4 year next business day warranty and then it's their problem, and they've always done an awesome job with warranty service in comparison to these OEM jokers.
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kinda like DFI has been doing lately.
 
ThatsAgood1jay said:
kinda like DFI has been doing lately.
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"Jackie," long time ex-ABIT employee that went to DFI a few years ago, left DFI to go to OCZ about a year ago. Since then, things have been moving downhill at DFI. And they had some great products in the tube as well....
 
Kyle, just curious, but why not send an email higher up tagan's food chain and ask if the "$20k for a gold award" is their official stance?
 
I'd still think it's odd to market a PSU at 1300w @ 25C (assuming that even were the case). Whenever I put together MTBF sheets on a platform for customers of the company I work for, I always try to obtain MTBF @ 55C and most manufacturers provide me with MTBF @ 55C by default without even asking them for numbers that correlate with any specific temp. Granted, that's usually server class hardware (Zippy, Supermicro, etc), but I would tend to think it's semi-standard across hardware vendors.
 
farfromhome said:
Very interesting...so OCZ gets Jonny, and "Jackie" now too... It sounds like OCZ is hiring away lots of the good people; maybe we can expect to see an OCZ motherboard soon too. :D
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They did release a video card so it's always possible. :)
 
farfromhome said:
Very interesting...so OCZ gets Jonny, and "Jackie" now too... It sounds like OCZ is hiring away lots of the good people; maybe we can expect to see an OCZ motherboard soon too. :D
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OCZ gets Jonny???? How are they paying these days????
 
Volkum said:
I'd still think it's odd to market a PSU at 1300w @ 25C (assuming that even were the case). Whenever I put together MTBF sheets on a platform for customers of the company I work for, I always try to obtain MTBF @ 55C and most manufacturers provide me with MTBF @ 55C by default without even asking them for numbers that correlate with any specific temp. Granted, that's usually server class hardware (Zippy, Supermicro, etc), but I would tend to think it's semi-standard across hardware vendors.
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Nope.

"Standard" for an ATX12V PSU is in fact sitting out in an open environment at room temperature. 40° and 50°C ratings are totally gratuatist.
 
jonnyGURU said:
Nope.

"Standard" for an ATX12V PSU is in fact sitting out in an open environment at room temperature. 40° and 50°C ratings are totally gratuatist.
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Zippy's website actually has MTBF stats for 50C. Supermicro always provides me with specs at 55C (most of their cases use Ablecom PSUs). Maybe it's just consumer market PSUs use lower temps as a standard?
 
Volkum said:
Zippy's website actually has MTBF stats for 50C. Supermicro always provides me with specs at 55C (most of their cases use Ablecom PSUs). Maybe it's just consumer market PSUs use lower temps as a standard?
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For the longest time high-end consumer-grade units would announce at what temperature they were rated. Most lower-end units did not. For example, PC Power & Cooling used to advertise 50C rated on their whole line, and at one point would explain why it was better. It was very educational for me as a younger enthusiast, as I didn't understand the temperature derating curve in general. (As temp goes up, output goes down)

We rate ours at 50C and its on either the front or the back of each box, I know a lot of other manufacturers are doing 50C as well. Some don't announce anything, but typically a high-end PSU will spec at 50C for the consumer market. There are some exceptions, obviously. That's why I like Paul's reviews, he tests at temp that is reasonable for the inside of a warmer computer case. Most cases run 35-45C inside in my experience, so if you buy a 500W unit at 25C it'll underperform. To be fair, most people never notice this because most people never draw anywhere near 500W of power from their PSU.
 
I wish this guy would pony up on some links to these so called many reviews. I looked up this model specifically and all I got were links back to the Tagan forum on this thread and the thread about their thread here. I'm actually rather interested as to who else has reviewed this unit.

http://www.tagan.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2295&postcount=39

I'd agree that the {H] is not the end all be all of reviews, but every review here is most definitely more thorough than some of these other jokers who plug it in, duck for cover, and when nothing explodes, GOLD STAR!!!!!!111oneoneoneeleven

Maybe you should add that kind of stuff into the reviews. "Well, we plugged it in, and it didn't take our faces off with an exploding capacitor. So far, it has passed the [H]ardOCP 'Don't Kill The Reviewer at power-on' test. Now, onto the good stuff!"
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
Maybe you should add that kind of stuff into the reviews. "Well, we plugged it in, and it didn't take our faces off with an exploding capacitor. So far, it has passed the [H]ardOCP 'Don't Kill The Reviewer at power-on' test. Now, onto the good stuff!"
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I have actually had two units blow up when I plugged them in and switched them on for the first load test....but there is a piece of 3/8 Lexan between me and the unit so my face survived. :D
 
Paul_Johnson said:
I have actually had two units blow up when I plugged them in and switched them on for the first load test....but there is a piece of 3/8 Lexan between me and the unit so my face survived. :D
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Sounds like a pretty short review write up to me! lol
 
Volkum said:
Sounds like a pretty short review write up to me! lol
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I wish. Whenever a unit fails it either gets RMA'd if it was bought via retail ora second unit is requested from the company. Either way failed unit means double the work. :(
 
this guy is retarded

Schwarz said:
The data may be right or wrong.
its easy to cheat numbers.
If the H did it or not... I don`t know I personnaly don`t give much of a crap.
All I know is that for me what comes from the H has to be taken with a grain of salt.
All i`m seeing here are H fanboys that dont like to see what the outside world thinks about them.
Some take you seriously some don`t, its part of life kid :) learn to live with it
Just like the review some may take it seriously some may not.
I personnaly don`t :)
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then i responded


all4amd said:
If you are referring to the outside world as your site then you need to do a Google search. All I got was 5 results and 2 of them were this thread and the thread @ H. The other 3 were not reviews.
I'm sorry but just running a system doesn't fully load a PSU. You sound like the "fanboy" to me.
H used a device specifically for putting a load on the PSU then check the output of the supply with an oscilloscope and found it was out of spec on ripple. then the supply couldn't handle 1300W of power draw.
Show me another site that test like H that passed this PSU. Give us proof that this power supply can output 1300W @50c without going out of ATX spec
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ryan_975 said:
even if both blow up?
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Two bad units in a row is my limit, I have to get these reviews out at some point and if two different samples from retail are bad or the manufacturer sends me two bad ones in a rwo it really is starting to look like a systematic problem.

I even had one company go as far as pulling units out of retail packages and sit there and test a bunch of them after I had a bad unit. When I had the second they tried replicating the isssues in my test conditions. Turns out they weren't able to get them warm enough to hit the derating curve like I was (and I don't believe they were using an oscilloscope to see the DC issues) but when talking with them I pointed out that part of the issue was that the label indicated tha unit could output a great 12v load than they were saying in the other literature and all units were all inconsistantly labeled.

Bottom line is there is a lot of back and forth with the companies that want input into their product and we try to extend them as much courtesy as possible rather than simply throw them under the bus so something fails. Failing units doesn't come down to advertisers since I don't deal with advertisers and I have failed units from people who advertise a number of times. I doesn't matter if you advertise you had better have a good product if you don't it will fail. On the flip side people probably are afraid to send units that they know may fail as I have had a number of companies back out and we see very few lower end offerings offered for reviews. This is why we try and do the roundups where I get some of those units people are afraid to send but sadly those units do not seem to be what people want to read about going by the page views :(

The Tagan was close to passing but just missed the mark by a bit.
 
Volkum said:
Zippy's website actually has MTBF stats for 50C. Supermicro always provides me with specs at 55C (most of their cases use Ablecom PSUs). Maybe it's just consumer market PSUs use lower temps as a standard?
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That AND you're quoting MTBF. MTBF and the temp at which they actually rate the product are two completely different things. There are A LOT of PSU's that have an MTBF rated at 40 to 50°C, yet have their wattage rated at 25°C.

This is a common misconception, similar to the misconception of "the operating temperature range of this product is 0 to 50°C, therefore it must be rated at 50°C." I see that one a lot too.
 
jonnyGURU said:
That AND you're quoting MTBF. MTBF and the temp at which they actually rate the product are two completely different things. There are A LOT of PSU's that have an MTBF rated at 40 to 50°C, yet have their wattage rated at 25°C.

This is a common misconception, similar to the misconception of "the operating temperature range of this product is 0 to 50°C, therefore it must be rated at 50°C." I see that one a lot too.
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Probably right. I was making the assumption that if they're doing one test at 50C, they're doing multiple at 50C. It seems logical to me, but who knows.
 
Redbeard said:
For the longest time high-end consumer-grade units would announce at what temperature they were rated. Most lower-end units did not. For example, PC Power & Cooling used to advertise 50C rated on their whole line, and at one point would explain why it was better. It was very educational for me as a younger enthusiast, as I didn't understand the temperature derating curve in general. (As temp goes up, output goes down)

We rate ours at 50C and its on either the front or the back of each box, I know a lot of other manufacturers are doing 50C as well. Some don't announce anything, but typically a high-end PSU will spec at 50C for the consumer market. There are some exceptions, obviously. That's why I like Paul's reviews, he tests at temp that is reasonable for the inside of a warmer computer case. Most cases run 35-45C inside in my experience, so if you buy a 500W unit at 25C it'll underperform. To be fair, most people never notice this because most people never draw anywhere near 500W of power from their PSU.
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Since you're here, let me step slightly off-topic to say that I really appreciate what Corsair is contributing to the PSU market and I hope to have a VX550 in my box soon (along with an 8800GT!). Affordable performance PSUs, GPUs, CPUs, DDR2 prices falling through the floor... has the world gone mad or am I in paradise?
 
Funny how one employee can make or break a company's rep with the market. I doubt that all of Tagan thought the same as this individual. Personally I stick with just a few brands of PSU's (wont bother going into names, you all can probably guess them), so it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other to me. However, I think this goes for a wakeup call to companies to employ a "employee posting directive" that states what an employee, no matter at what level, can post on the website about their product, pro or con. Too many times an over loyal employee will shoot off their mouth and get the company in trouble.

Oh well...... E-drama must go on!
 
Tanis143 said:
Too many times an over loyal employee will shoot off their mouth and get the company in trouble.
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It's one thing to be overly loyal, it's another to make libelous accusations because your product got a bad review. Especially in public. If he really thinks that, fine, that's his right, but when he starts making that argument in public he'd better have some sort of evidence to back it up, otherwise he comes across like a sore loser.

The hardware industry isn't quite like Consumer Reports, nobody would pay for a hardware review site, so review sites rely on advertising. I'm sure on some sites, they're loathe to make negative comments about their advertisers' products, but I don't see HardOCP as being one of those sites. If anything, in my years here, I've seen Kyle get extremely pissed when he sees that on other sites or assumes he's "in the pocket" of some advertiser.

If Tagan wants to point fingers, they should point at Topower, since all units from Topower seem to share the same flaws lately.
 
After looking at both forums.....


I know that I wont be buying a PSU without [H] badge of approval. I don't want anything going boom in my box if I try and use as advertised.
 
Kendrak said:
After looking at both forums.....


I know that I wont be buying a PSU without [H] badge of approval. I don't want anything going boom in my box if I try and use as advertised.
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QFT, but add Silent PC Review, PC Perspective, and JohnnyGuru to that list.
 
Looks like Tagan closed the thread.

I think it's unfortunate how the focus has shifted away from the fact that this Benson character said, "Do we really need to spend $20,000 per ad to get top award" and is now on whether the testing was flawed. His statement was libelous. Period. He closed the thread and never apologized for that statement.
Nothing that was said in the review was untrue and can easily be proven.
 
Check this out. http://www.tagan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113
This explains why Schwarz is such a loyal fan. :rolleyes:



And Benson believes it's ok to throw accusations of fraud around in the name of defending his company.

I just want to say that I am simply expressing my own views about the review and defending for our company just like what they are doing with their website. It wasn’t meant to lead to any judgment. I am just like any of our forum member expressing their points of view and comments.
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I think he missed the point of his $20,000 comment. I think he forgets that he is not just any other forum member, but instead a company employed rep.
 
heh, benson stands up, fires off a "I get the last word here!" post, ducks back down and CLOSES thread before anyone else can respond:rolleyes:

Benson over at tagan forum said:
Hi Guys,

Wow, this has really gotten lots of attenion. I am sorry for not able to respond or taken a look at this sooner. Our internet service provider has been down until next week. I am using home pc to do work stuff.

I just want to say that I am simply expressing my own views about the review and defending for our company just like what they are doing with their website. It wasn’t meant to lead to any judgment. I am just like any of our forum member expressing their points of view and comments.

Tagan will continue to make high quality products with consumer's benefit in the end. Who knows, maybe one day your thoughts about us will change. Whatever product you choose for your system, if you are happy with it then we are happy for you. Thanks!
__________________
Best Regards,

Benson
Tagan Technology Co.
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topcat989 said:
heh, benson stands up, fires off a "I get the last word here!" post, ducks back down and CLOSES thread before anyone else can respond:rolleyes:
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I like how he says
and defending for our company just like what they are doing with their website.
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yet I don't see anything ridiculous like "Tagan pays reviews $20,000 for reviews" on this thread. There's a huge difference between just expressing your opinion and defending a company you support and making acidic and unbacked accusations in order to undermine the credibility of a reviewer. That post should have been an apology and not an 'everything is alright' closer.
 
yeah, i had a good chuckle about that when checking that thread for action this morning with my coffee.

tagan should really think about puttin the boot to good ol' benson. he's in the same league as that commodore-endorsed marketing genius of past [H] fame.

this $20k QQ has propelled good ol' benson into first place among recent competitors and it's really nice of tagan to join in with commodore for this autumn's tournament of retards.
 
i was gonna post in there!! darn it, they where mudslinging that the reason they didnt get a good review because they didnt pay "$20K" for an ad?? where did that come from?maybe they do that on other sites to get good reviews...tagan is a good PSU but the way they approach things makes them look like they sell $20 psu....
 
I say we boycott Tagan products altogether. If this is how they treat a bad review, I'd be horrified to be a customer of theirs in need of help, warranty related or otherwise.

Some may say that even though he's just one individual we shouldn't take his words to reflect on the company. I say bullshit. He's not some engineer locked up in a lab conversing privately with other engineers or other employees in general, rarely, if ever, coming into public view. What is said behind closed doors stays there. This is a person who represents the company in public view. He represents the company as long as he acts in public and he does so while he is tagged thusly.

At the store I work at, it's drilled into our heads that as long as we're in uniform and/or on the clock, we represent the company. Therefore, everything we do is representative of the company, as long as we're on company time, or wear something with the store logo on it, be it our badges or our work shirts. If I went to a bar after work with my work shirt still on and got belligerently drunk, and got in a fight, my actions will still be viewed as representative of the calibur of people who work for my store. No one is going to sit there and think "Oh, it's just one guy who had a bad day at work and someone else just HAD to set him off." They're going to think "Wow, the company this guy works for must let just about any dreg of society work for them!"

And that's pretty much what I think of Tagan after reading that. And because of that, I will not buy any of their products, ever. I'm sure Benson could care less if the [H] community buys Tagan products, but he also forgets that we have friends and families too. Bad news travels fast.
 
iseedeadpeople said:
i was gonna post in there!! darn it, they where mudslinging that the reason they didnt get a good review because they didnt pay "$20K" for an ad?? where did that come from?maybe they do that on other sites to get good reviews...tagan is a good PSU but the way they approach things makes them look like they sell $20 psu....
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doesn't matter they didn't listen to me
 
Damn, it got worse. The main supporter was "paid" for his own review by receiving free products, and Benson never even indicated that he thought his remarks were out of line (which they were) and closed the thread.

I refuse to do business with any company this lacking in integrity. Tagan is a deep, dark hole of fail.
 
therapy said:
It's one thing to be overly loyal, it's another to make libelous accusations because your product got a bad review. Especially in public. If he really thinks that, fine, that's his right, but when he starts making that argument in public he'd better have some sort of evidence to back it up, otherwise he comes across like a sore loser.

The hardware industry isn't quite like Consumer Reports, nobody would pay for a hardware review site, so review sites rely on advertising. I'm sure on some sites, they're loathe to make negative comments about their advertisers' products, but I don't see HardOCP as being one of those sites. If anything, in my years here, I've seen Kyle get extremely pissed when he sees that on other sites or assumes he's "in the pocket" of some advertiser.
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Being libelous is what that guy was being, and possibly Tagan could be responsible and liable for libel because they gave him authorization to represent them.
 
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