TEC question + X850XT-PE

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NortHWizarD

Weaksauce
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Aug 31, 2005
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Hey there... have read a few places about the X800 series cards not liking being pelt cooled... does anyone here have any experience with pelts on an X850XT-PE (or any X800 series)

Here's the initial plans for my set up -

I have a swiftech peltier block with a 226watt tec... I also have a 320 watt 50mm tec and a Winsch Labs 437 block and tec - have not decided what to use for the CPU yet... not trying to set any records or anything, I just wanna break out of this 28-30 degree water cooling barrier.

for the vid card, I have a Swiftech MCW50-T with the original 80 watt tec, I also have a 110watt tech, and i have a 172 watt tec here... I have a water block, custom modded to fit the 172 if i decide to go that route (it's a 6000 series Swiftech CPU block that has the base drilled and tapped for the mounting holes for the card - fits on great)

I have a couple cold plates, and 2 sheets of 5mm thick copper (high grade, true flat, polished) if i need to make any cold plates myself - wow, copper is some expensive LMAO

here is what i am going to be cooling -

Socket 754 A64-3700 and an X850XT-PE

I have 2 BIP 120.2 rads, a BIP 120.1 rad, a BIX 120.1 rad and a Bonneville heater core with 2 140mm fans (xoxide just got 140mm fans in with 120mm adapters... the 140's fit the width perfectly, but are just a hair long when placed side by side... but that isn't any trouble.

Any hints, ideas, suggestions or warnings would be greatly appreciated... Like i said, I am not looking to be the coldest, i just want to get down to the single digit temps, or possible negative temps.

TIA

~NortH~ :p
 
I did it to my old X850XT PE and didn't quite see much gains from regular water cooler. I considered a waste of time and money. This is my own opinion though.
 
right at the moment a 226 watt pelt on my CPU is getting me 11C load on my 3000 venice with 9x285 @1.44, using two BIX2 rads with dialed down panaflo fans and with my GPU in the loop as well.

i was getting up into the teens with my 9800 pro overclocked with my 80 watt pelt. i abandoned the GPU pelt all together and moved over to straight water for the GPU when i moved up to my x850XT.

your two BIP2 rads should provide you with adequate cooling with moderate fans. the only reason to add more radiator than that would be to quiet things down, but would require one heck of a pump to keep that coolant moving optimally.
 
Sorry about that... forgot to mention the pumps...

here is my list of pumps i have kicking around...

2x Polarflo TT chrome pumps (Laing D4's)
2x Swiftech MCP600's
1 XSPC 1000 litre/hour pump
2x mcp350's

I was planning on using the dual Polarflo pumps, they preform quite well, are quiet and look great too... the MCP600's are also decent pumps - it is going to depend on fir and look - I am starting on this project next week... I will be using a Chenming 601 case, so room is fairly decent... I also have the 901 case, but they are steel and heavy and pretty tall... although they are easilt modded to run Dual PSU's.

I have a meanwell S320 for powering the TEC... was planning on powering the CPU tec, water pump and a couple fans off of it... my thoughts are to wire it to a switch so that i can fire up the cooling before powering the PC - get the block(s) cold first.

Thanks for the help and ideas.. I may just leave the X850 on water... it never goes over 38 right now... and I am running water right now, cooling the vid card and 3700 cpu, and the only cooling is a single 120mm BIP with a 60cfm fan... i have never went over 40 on the cpu (full load temps) and 38 on the GPU... normally, when i have folding running and some other stuff on the go ( i have folding set to use 100% cpu) I hit the temps i mentioned, or a little less... depending on room/ambient temps.. and the room temp is 24 degrees right now.. and my current CPU temp is 38 - so i am sure using 2 BIP 120.2 rads, a tec on the cpu and sticking with just water on the gpu... the gpu temps will probably come down a couple degrees or more.

~NortH~
 
with GPU clocks hovering around 565 core and 615 mem, i get about 33 idle and 39 load on the GPU. room temperature is around 20C.

if you have the PSU output to run something like a 172 watt 40x40mm 24 volt pelt, running at 12 volts instead, on the GPU you could get some pretty nice results.

with all of the equipment that you say you have kicking around, i think that you could run two loops. one with the GPU/pelt on a heater core and a pair of MCP350 pumps and the CPU loop with the two MCP600s and the two BIP2 rads, if you want some very powerfull cooling at a low noise level.

at that point you could use something like under volted yate loon 120mm fans and have a quite quiet pelt solution.
 
DFI Daishi said:
with GPU clocks hovering around 565 core and 615 mem, i get about 33 idle and 39 load on the GPU. room temperature is around 20C.

if you have the PSU output to run something like a 172 watt 40x40mm 24 volt pelt, running at 12 volts instead, on the GPU you could get some pretty nice results.

with all of the equipment that you say you have kicking around, i think that you could run two loops. one with the GPU/pelt on a heater core and a pair of MCP350 pumps and the CPU loop with the two MCP600s and the two BIP2 rads, if you want some very powerfull cooling at a low noise level.

at that point you could use something like under volted yate loon 120mm fans and have a quite quiet pelt solution.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input and suggestions... I won't have the room for that many pumps/rad... my thoughts were along this line...

the heater core in the top of the case with dual fans (140mm or 120mm with a custom shroud) and a BIP 120.2 - and originally just using a single pump...
I could run seperate loops though...

loop 1 (cpu) pump -> heater core in top of case -> TEC block-CPU -> pump (would use a t-line for filling)
loop 2 (gpu) pump -> BIP 120.2 on back of case, outside -> TEC block GPU -> pump (t-line)

I would prefer to use a single loop though and a reservoir... i have built a custom chiller to cool the fluid in my reservoir and want to put it to use - in testing, it can maintain the fluid in a reservoir, without any rads hooked up, running a single CPU water block on an Athlon XP2800+ at about room temp (22*-24* C) - with a rad in the loop, i am positive it would perform way better. I am still playing with it and testing it, so it will not be used right away, but I prefer the reservoir idea over t-lines, just for ease of use if nothing else... am running a t-line now, but don't really like it.

so this was my original plan for a loop:

pump -> heater core in top of case -> cpu tec block -> BIP on back of case, outside -> gpu tec block -> reservoir -> pump

I could easily include a second pump to the loop if you really think it would make much difference... there will be no 90* bends in the loop (well... there will be, but not like the ones found in stores that have perfect right angles - the ones i have are stainless steel and are an actual curved bend, so far less restrictive - can post pics if needed)

thanks for the help.

~North~
 
i guess that i should have kept in mind your comment about not wanting to set records, but i was immediately thinking of the wintsch labs block on the CPU and massive cooling on the GPU.........if space is an issue, then a singel loop with as much pumping power as you can cram in there is what you want. i would still go with the dual MCP600s to drive the loop, unless you know that you happen to have gotten a relatively quiet pair of D4 pumps.

whatever arrangement you end up using, remember thatyour CPU pelt will usually be substantially more powerfull than your GPU pelt and if you do seperate loops, your rad and pump selection should reflect that.

with the chiller though........i wouldn't bother. try it if you like, but the temperature difference between different points in the loop is so minor that your chiller will just be fighting the rads. water cooling relies on moving water quickly through the loop with maybe 1 C difference between the "cool" water coming out of the rad and the "hot" water coming out of the CPU block. no matter where you put that chiller of yours, it's not going to be able to make much of a difference, and will probably end up complicating things substantially.

what computer PSU are you running, and do you have the 24 volt dedicated PSU to run the wintsch labs block?
 
Thanks for all the info Daishi... I have a meanwell psu (24volt) for the 437 tec... but since i am not really trying to set a world record here LMAO, I was seriously just think of using the 320/12volt TEC or the 226 stock one... the 320, when at 12 volts (it's rated max is about 15V i think) will be around 250 watts or so from what i have read... and both the 320 and 226 are both 12volts, and i have a meanwell S320-12 to power whichever i choose... but i am leaning towards the 226 since it is already in the water block and it would just make things easy and simple. I am hoping to run the TEC and a pump and a pair of fans off of the meanwell so that it can be started up before the computer - that way the cooling has had a chance to work before the system fires up.

I am thinking, after a lot of reading, that i may just not bother with running a pelt on the gpu... from what i am told and have read... the 80 watt will probably do almost nothing and the 110 will only be a lsight improvement over what i am getting now with water cooling, so I may just a tec on the CPU and leave the rest alone.

pump -> BIP 120.2 with dual 120mm/60cfm fans -> CPU TEC block with 226watt TEC -> Bonneville heater core with dual Panaflo 115cfm fans (this rad will be mounted outside of the case, on the back panel using an idea something like the swiftech radbox, only using threaded rod instead to keep it away from the case, but mounted to it -> video card water block -> reservoir -> pump

now, without running seperate loops, where would you suggest a second pump be placed... I will be using the Polarflo TT chrome pumps, which are the D4's... they have good power and flow, better than the MCP600's... although I did just get an MCP655 this morning, but since you are strongly suggesting dual pumps, i may just use that for another build project.

I really was hoping to use a single pump, and from everything i have read, i realy don't see where using a second pump in this system will really have a huge advantage... right now in the water cooling system i am currently running, which is what is being modded to the new system, i am running one of the Polarflo TT pumps, a DD TDX, BIP 120.1, MCW55 and a t-line - and i am getting excellent temps - ambient/room temp is 23.5 right now, and I am running folding@home with 100% cpu usage, along with some other stuff in the background (has been like this for about 48 hours) and i am at 38* C CPU and 37* GPU - the only changes I will be making is changing to 2 dual fan rads from a single fan rad now, and then adding a TEC to the mix, but the block used with the TEC is less restrictive than that TDX is I am quite sure... so the only reason i can see for adding a second pump would be the rads...

I am just trying to get this all ironed out before i dive right in... I am taking the case to the machine shop today to do the mods (top window with the fan blow holes and mounts for the meanwell and outside rad etc.) so I will be getting this on the go by mid next week hopefully.

Thanks for all your time and help!

~NortH~
 
with a given set of watercooling components, you get better performance with increased flow. rads are able to get the coolant closer to ambient and blocks are able to keep the wet side closer to ambient: more flow helps performance.

an added pump might net you an extra 3C of cooling. if you already have the pump kicking around anyway, and can figure out some way of mounting it, why not go for it?

putting the two pumps one right after the other will step up the head pressure at the outlet of the second pump. the high head pressure at that one point in the loop is just as good as having the pumps in two seperate locations, and is often easier to mount.

a pair of MCP600 pumps will provide you with more head and less heat dump into the loop than a single D4 would give you, and is often quieter. if noise is not an issue, i suppose you could go ahead and stick a pair of D4s in there instead.

it's you rig. there are tonnes of considerations that you can think about or ignore as you wish.

these days i look at my rig and there are a lot of things that i wish that i had done differently. there are always a host of small factors that you can tweak to take the system up to the next level.

you might also want to take a look at what DNA has done with his system. he's got some very nice temperature monitoring at most every point in the system.

good luck, i hope that you end up happy with what you build.
 
TECs are not to hot with the x800's. You will prob destroy your bios, as I did 2x and have to replace your card. Viper J. told me that the bios goes corrupt due to the cold on the majority or the x800 cards, they just cant take it. I was lucky for a month or so on both, then the bios went corrupt, and this can not be fixed. So, if it were me I would NOT put a TEC on x800 card.
 
Actually I think it was your story I read that prompted me to look in to this further and a good part of the reason I started asking questions and also posted this here.

I made a phone call to ATI Canada this morning and although they will not 'confirm' what you say as truth, they basically told me 'off the record' that yes, they are very tempermental with very low temperatures - it is an issue they are aware of and are, or have already, correcting/corrected. Of course, I got the huge, stern lecture about voiding the warranty blah blah blah.

It looks like I will just be TEC cooling the CPU and then stick with water cooling for the X850XT-PE... I mean, really.... under 30 for idle and mid 30's for load temps are pretty good anyways... and i am not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination, so it really will not give me any bonus... I was just going to do it since i was already TEC cooling the CPU.

Thanks for the info and relaying your experience - you have made my decision solid now :)

It actually saves me a lot of grief as well now... I can get away with using my Black Ice Pro/Extreme (whichever is the thicker of the 2) 120.1 for cooling the GPU and my 120.2 for the CPU - things will fit so much better now.

pump -> TEC-CPU block -> BI 120.2 rad -> GPU -> 120.1 BI Rad -> reservoir -> pump

I have 2 70+cfm fans on the 120.2 and a 70+cfm fan on the 120.1 - which move enough air to keep things cool.

Right now I am cooling an A64-3700 and the X850, on the same loop (TDX CPU block, MCW55 GPU block) and using the 120.1 rad to cool both and have never once hit 40* C even with the cpu overclocked and also the gpu o/c'd... and the ambient temp can reach almost 25* C in the room the system is in, and the fan on the rad is a typical LED 120mm fan, probably around the 40-50 cfm range.

I may switch back to my Silverprop GPU block though, I am not all that impressed with the swiftech one... or maybe a Polarflo TT, since i have 2 extra ones anyways... so it looks like I will end up selling the MCW50-T and the MCW55 :)

Thanks again for all the help, you as well Daishi!

~NortH~
 
well, after some thought and messing around... i have finally worked out the rad situation.

I am using a '77 Bonneville heater core (with A/C style) and placing it in the top cd-rom
bay(s) - i have been looking at this dang core and the thing is... without a shroud, they can't perform a whole lot better than a standard 120.2 rad... obviously a little better, but without a shroud, you can't take advantage of all that great surface area. So what i have decided to do is take some really firm, 1/2" thick foam, sort of like weather stripping, and run it along the edage of the core, making the core seal to the top window and be about 1/2" away from it... then place my 2 - 120mm fans on the outside of the window... that way it is just like having a shroud - and to mount it, I am going to use those black push through ties that they use on tranny coolers... run them through the fan holes and then through the core and that will clamp everything tight together... sealing the heater core to the top window so the fans have to draw all their air through the core. I will be using 2 aluminum 120mm fans which each are rated for 79cfm - I am thinking that should be plenty of air flow... and they are also fairly quiet as well... far quieter than my big panaflo 115cfm fans... and now i can stay with the 120.2 rad out the back for the video card.

I think I have the cooling pretty well taken care of... that should be more than enough for 1 226watt TEC and an X850XT-PE video card... and I am taking Daishi's advice and running dual pumps, but will be running dual MCP650's (Laing D4's) since they are rated quite a lot higher for gph and head than the 600's are... the 600's are about 180gph, and the D4's are 317 each... and they are also smaller and easier to mount in series.

As for the vidoe card block.. i am for sure ditching the mcw55 block and going back to my silverprop fusion hl - it is a far superior block. I am also getting sent a new apogee to test and review, so I am going to see if it would work with a peltier or not... internally i think it would be a great cooling block for peltiers, but i am not sure what the exterior base is like... i may have to take it to the machine shop for a little work first... I also have to make a cold plate for it and will have to drill holes and tap them so I can mount the cold plate and be able to apply the proper pressure to the TEC.

Once i get my worklog a little farther along, I will post a link to it - that way if you see something i am overlooking, or can make a better suggestion for what i am doing... excellent :)

thanks again everyone,

~NortH~
 
I sell those rads. I use to sell shrouds for them. I quit making them after a bit..a shroud on them really does not do much. I only noticed like a 2-3c diff with one on. If you have some nice 120mm's, that is really all you need.
 
My x850xt-pe crossfire rig run's on DD pelt block's (maze 4-1) with only 80w tec's @ 11v i have -10*cidle +9*c load @ 650 core 650 ram..no vgpu mod's stock voltage...


zdfgd.JPG



she get's them a little colder then just plain water ;) these block's are also on my x1900 crossfire rig..there amazing with the 172w tec's in them..
 
BitchBreaker said:
My x850xt-pe crossfire rig run's on DD pelt block's (maze 4-1) with only 80w tec's @ 11v i have -10*cidle +9*c load @ 650 core 650 ram..no vgpu mod's stock voltage...

she get's them a little colder then just plain water ;) these block's are also on my x1900 crossfire rig..there amazing with the 172w tec's in them..
Click to expand...
i'm really suprised that they're keeping things that cool. i abandoned my 80 W when i moved up to my x850XT because on my 9800pro temps were getting up into the teens under load......didn't even try to run it on the higher powered x850.....
 
The temp's have never gotten over 10*c...and once my new toy for this rig comes they wont ever break -10*c :)
 
well the project has taken a couple turns since I started this thread :)

I have the system almost done now - it should actually be running next weekend.

For the CPU, I have went with a Wintsch Labs, Arctic Web 437 watt/24volt CPU block (thanks vmsein) and for the GPU I have modified my Silverprop block and am using a 172 watt/12volt in there.
the hardware is an Opteron 144 - CAB2E week 0546, great overclocker, and I am still using the X850XT-PE, although it has had the volt-mods done for the mem and core.

I am running dual MCP650 pumps and for the cooling end I have a Bonneville heater core in the top of the case with 2x 120mm/80cfm fans and I also have a BIX120.2
out the back of the case with the same fans on it.

I have a meanwell S-320-12 to power the GPU pelt, pumps and fans, and another meanwell, a 24volt/30amp to power the Wintsch Labs block.

So... shortly I will be selling a complete peltier cooling system, since I have all the parts sitting here for 2, and only need one :)

the for sale one will include:

Swiftech 5000 series 226watt peltier block that fits Intel P4 socket 478 but it also comes with a custom made,
polished aluminum mounting plate so it will fit Athlon 64's too (socket 754, 939, 940)
Swiftech MCW50-T 80watt GPU block (both blocks have brand new gaskets and 1/2" barbed fittings)
Meanwell S-320-12
brand new Bonneville heater core with 1/2" fittings
MCP650 12volt pump
Dual 5.25 bay reservoir
2x 120mm Aluminum Evercool 80cfm fans
and a Zalman 6 channel fan bus/controller

I am almost finished the system and the worklog for it and will post the finished system as soon as I get it done, which, barring any hold-ups, should be in a week or so - it's just small things now... some more tubing, clamps, a couple more fans, some wire... and a little more case moddin'

~NortH~
 
25below.JPG




Maze 4-1 pelt block's own! still running the 80w tec on my 0*c alky chiller! ill turn the temp's on the chiller down to about -30 and see where i get.
 
you like that dont ya..just wait till i put the 172w tec's in there..both card's right now sit at -27*c idle -5*c load on both card's running 670/650 benchable and running 24/7..got to vmod this weekend to get to 700 core maby 1.35 1.4 on the ram..i hope.My x1900's are just awsome right now,still tweakign them and getting a good cpu ready to run it..but as of now my fx-57@ 3.55 isent enuff..big bottle neck, might try it on my 955xe @ 6.5 or so but i think a fx-60 @ 3.6 is enuff.
 
nice and chilly :)

mind explaining the setup you have there to me... tubing looks like you may have a mem cooler or something... and I am surious about your overall cooling system ,,, you said alcohol earlier?

~NortH~
 
Yea the master card isent useing ram cooling, the ram is fine on passive, the gpu is under a DangerDen MAZE 4-1 pelt block with 80w 24v pelt,im also running a swiftec NB waterblock, i dont run water, or ethelglycol, i run methanol in a 1/2hp chiller, she can do full load -35*c @ 400w.
 
welll the 24volt explains on thing... it is far better than an 80 watt 12volt one... , but I am still confused about how you have the tubing routed.

and as for the chiller... what are the temps on the card if the tec wasn't being used... I mean, just the methanol chiller... I had thought of playing with the chiller idea... but would do it for the CPU... and i hate the idea of having to insulate all the lines etc since it would be below ambient in the case, probably by quite a lot.

I just can't wait to see what my 24 volt 437 watt tec can do to my 144 opteron

I have a 3/4 hp chiller here from a tore down salt water fish tank I had running... it keeps staring at me... it calls me LMAO

~NortH~
 
Can you provide some pic's of your chiller, there are a few mod's to do to them b4 u can put it into service :) my loop right now is setup on 1 card and the ATI rdx200 northbridge, my chiller can do -25 on the gpu idle and -6 loaded, if i change the cap tube and put a bit more gas in it i can get both gpu's and the cpu (fx-57) well under 0*c :) i once setup and ran a 2 stage cascade chiller, alky temp's were -96*c we had 1 pump that could live in that type of cold but we never got past just frosting up a old maze 2 solid copper block.
 
I'll have to go dig it out of the basement... will try to find it sometime this week... but now that you say you are cooling the NB as well... I understand why the tubing looks a little funky in the picture... just the way you have it in the picture, and i had forgot about the NB being right under there... it looked kind of strange.

I will have to see if the chiller still works I guess too... but if not, I can always go grab one, they are easy to get my hands on... so, you are saying they need to be modified before using for use on a pc? or is it a mod to just make them perform a little better... and you find that using methanol is way better than distilled/coolant mixture?

See... I think, to start with, I am going to toss on my Wintsch Labs CPU block and also the Swiftech 80watt GPU block... just to see how things go... I am not expecting very much out of a 12volt/80watt TEC on an X850XT-PE (mines an AGP version, not that it will make any difference), but it gives me a starting point to work from... I also have a 122watt and a 176.. pretty sure it's 176... could be a little smaller, but it's been quite a while since I bought it... it's between a 150 and 176 anyways. I figure that the 80watt will definitely not be enough to hurt anything, no matter what, and if temps aren't good enough, I can just swap it out... I have access to a machine shop and 2 sheets of 7/16" C110 copper that has a mirror finish on both sides... and the sheets are 12"x12" - so making new cold plated is not a problem... and I can always re-work the GPU water block to suit my needs... and it's only a cheap swiftech... so if it ends up getting screwed up, I'm not losing anything LMAO... I will eventually, once i have figured out exactly what I need and want to use, either buy the peltier assemply for my Silverprop block, or just machine the base of the block flat, make some threaded mounting holes, and a cold plate for it, and will use that block for the final assembly - I really love my Silverprop, so if I can't get a TEC version one, I will convert mine... but the Swifty is a good test/play block (i have 2 of them... can you say... packrat? LMAO)
I just can't wait to get the Wintsch Labs installed... I just need a few more little things... 'Y' connectors, some more tubing, and have to mount the second Bonneville heater core... I have decided to use 2 heater cores for cooling... that should easily handle the 437 and whatever GPU pelt I install.

Thanks for all your help and info... glad to see there are still people out there who like to toy around and experiment and not just buy all prefab kits and make believe they are moddin' and 'puter gods LMAO

~NortH~
 
NortHWizarD said:
I will have to see if the chiller still works I guess too... but if not, I can always go grab one, they are easy to get my hands on... so, you are saying they need to be modified before using for use on a pc? or is it a mod to just make them perform a little better... and you find that using methanol is way better than distilled/coolant mixture?
Click to expand...
chilled methanol is a lot thinner (lower viscosity) than chilled disilled H2O and antifreeze, at the mix ratios that you have to use for low temperature chillers. acetone is another option, good down to like - 40C.

lower viscosity -> easier on the pump, and often higher performing.

using either alcohol or acetone, you need to check what the materials you are building with can tollerate.
 
makes perfect sense :) thanks... think I would stay away from the acetone though... just way to corrosive compared to alky.

~NortH~
 
NortHWizarD said:
makes perfect sense :) thanks... think I would stay away from the acetone though... just way to corrosive compared to alky.

~NortH~
Click to expand...
you just need to know the properties of what you're using........high purity iso alochol will make short work of poly carbonate plastic.

acetone will quickly eat away acetate plastic.

it's not like there's some universal measure of how well a solvent will attack all materials.
 
methanol is HIGHLY corrosive any alum in the line will be eaten, i use a stainless steel HX for this chiller, be verry carefull if you use methanol it;s also verry toxic! I used it because i have access to as much of it as i want,Blending isent needed, and it's best to make sure your loop is air tight, it can take in 10% of it's weight in water out of the air really fast,water = ice = bad for the $780 30plate brazed HX im running.

About the chiller, there is massive flow problem's in them, u will lose a easy 40% of flow if not more (depending on the unit) You need to go in and check out every loop for the cooling circuit. Also ygpm
 
Thanks for the info... I used to run Methanol in my drag car back in the mid 80's, so very familiar with it and with handling it :) and have easy access to it if I want it.

once I dig out the chiller I will probably tear it down a little and check it over... I have a friend in teh HVAC business who could look over the cooling end of the unit as well... even upgrade the gas in it I am betting... but will leave that to him... it's not something I have any knowledge in.

Thanks again for all the great info!

~Nort~
 
awsome i own a Kart racing team :) Greer Motorsport's,Kart racing is my true love, i ran a 450shifter,my brother drives a WKA Open Animal class Kart, we have ton's of it on hand (100gal or so)
 
talkin' about small world... I ran a Kart team for a while... although we never got the kids up to the shifter level.. they stayed in the 4stroke karts... Honda 5hp's and 6hp's - but you would be surprised at how those suckers go when you trick them out... on our home track, which is very small and all tight corners, they averaged around 45-50 mph.
for all the engine builds and rebuilds I did... you couldn't pay me to rebuild a lawnmower engine now LMAO

In the kid's rookie year, in Junior Teen, he placed 8th overall for the season, then when we got him up to the 6 HP's, in the Senior Light class... pulled off a 5th place for the season... and we did it with a 5 year old kart and a motor that should have been a boat anchor years ago... it's all in the little mods and tweaks :). In the second year, we also had his father involved, running in the Master's class (dad's and mom's - to give them something to do LMAO)... again with a POS kart and got him (his rookie year as well) a 3rd overall.

The pictures are from the Honda Crystal Cup/Canadian Nationals at Shannonville Motorsports Race Track in Shannonville Ontario (got them from the kart club's website, I have none scanned... and didn;t have these anyways, they were taken by the club's photographer) - 3 of the karts I built are in that line-up - I tell ya, and you probably feel the same way... that was the most fun I have ever had... even not doing any (well I ran a couple races when people were sick) driving, and just being the engine builder and chassis design guy... it was an awesome amount of fun!

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and remember, these are just 6HP Honda 4 strokers with a header and some internal work done :) they get about 9-10 HP when tweaked right out... kart and driver are about 260 pounds (minimum kart weight was 130 without driver, and of course, like everyone, we were dead on 130) - so you can see the power these things have... but they in no way come close to the shifters or even the Briggs and Stratton - 2 strokers :)

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have a good one :)

~NortH~
 
the really scarry kart's are the dirrect drive kt-100 2stroke cart's..no clutch just gas and go!
 
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