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Teh Uber L33t Aqua-Computer Thread :)
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lolIgg said:Top Nurse, do you work for Sharka?
TN = Wes? (Stab in the dark)
The sad part is SNT was a great place to order from just six months ago. I am still shocked Dan has refused to post anything on his forum about the his business, if there still is one. To each his own, but SNT could have made a ton of cash of AC products. I guess the easy way is just to remove posts and sub forums.Igg said:
Igg said:Top Nurse, do you work for Sharka?
TN = Wes? (Stab in the dark)
Nope nada no way jose! They couldn't afford me as I make way more than Wes. However, it has been said that beginnings are a delicate time. This all started out with Sharka because I didn't want to give any money upfront to SNT for Aqua Computer products and I didn't want to order overseas either. So I am willing to invest a little amount of my time to make sure things go smoothly. But I am going back to work saving lives this weekend so I am not going to be as available as I have been.
But it's been fun Top Nurse said:But I am going back to work saving lives this weekend so I am not going to be as available as I have been.
Duh, forgot that you were a nurse, stupid me.
How many hour shift?
My gf is in residency and she's doing 48-72 shifts , yuck!
Check back here on saturday morn for update of my system! ;p
Well, I managed to take a couple crappy pics before the batteries in my camera died . The EVO 240 fits perfectly in the back of my V2100, well I did have to move the power supply down a few inches. Anyone know where I can get some molding to fit on the edge in front of the radiator?
. The EVO 240 fits perfectly in the back of my V2100, well I did have to move the power supply down a few inches. Anyone know where I can get some molding to fit on the edge in front of the radiator?
tbooth said:Well, I managed to take a couple crappy pics before the batteries in my camera died
You should be able to get that stuff at just about any decent electronics store. BTW, it looks as nice as I thought it would.
Greetings most exalted ones...
Aqua Computer is coming out with a TwinPlex Pro and production units look to be available in about 3-4 weeks here in the USA. They will be based on a similar design to the Cuplex Pro, but smaller of course. No pic's yet, but as soon as I can pry one loose I will post it. It appears to be available for both use on the NB and the GPU's as with all TwinPlex's. It will be a thinner design so it is unknown at this point whether it will be usable on SLI NB's that have difficulty with the standard TwinPlex's. However, my planned usage is on some hot ATi and Nvidia SLI video cards
Rest assured that as soon as they become available Sharka will be ordering them into the USA. If I had to hazard a guess as to pricing I would estimate about $75 a pop, but this may change when production actually starts. This will be a big boon for those, like me, who want good cooling and don't want a single purpose GPU cooler.
Aqua Computer is coming out with a TwinPlex Pro and production units look to be available in about 3-4 weeks here in the USA. They will be based on a similar design to the Cuplex Pro, but smaller of course. No pic's yet, but as soon as I can pry one loose I will post it. It appears to be available for both use on the NB and the GPU's as with all TwinPlex's. It will be a thinner design so it is unknown at this point whether it will be usable on SLI NB's that have difficulty with the standard TwinPlex's. However, my planned usage is on some hot ATi and Nvidia SLI video cards
Rest assured that as soon as they become available Sharka will be ordering them into the USA. If I had to hazard a guess as to pricing I would estimate about $75 a pop, but this may change when production actually starts. This will be a big boon for those, like me, who want good cooling and don't want a single purpose GPU cooler.
Happy Hopping
Supreme [H]ardness
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/02/dutch.poll/index.html
W/ 2 countries backing out of EU, the currency exchange of Euro is getting weaker.
Import price of Germany made toys is cheaper now if distributor were to import them from Germany. Euro nosedive since Mon.
W/ 2 countries backing out of EU, the currency exchange of Euro is getting weaker.
Import price of Germany made toys is cheaper now if distributor were to import them from Germany. Euro nosedive since Mon.
A new Sharka shipment is leaving Austria no later than Monday or Tuesday from IT-Trade. More of everything that was already in stock.
Plus the following new stuff:
Cuplex Pro's to fit A64, XP, and P4
Evo 240 radiators
Evo 160 grills
Evo Docking Module
Evo 240/360 External Housing
Aquastream version 3 replacement controllers
Metal T's and Elbows
Plastic T's, Y's, and Elbows
Aquaero LED module
Elbow Adapter for AquagraFX and AquagrAti coolers
Plug & Cool stoppers
Green GlowMotion
AquaDrive LT
more AquagraFX 6800 Rev 2 and AquagrATI 800/850 coolers!
Plus all the special ordered stuff like an Evo 1800, Compacttube, and a couple of Silver XT's
Plus the following new stuff:
Cuplex Pro's to fit A64, XP, and P4
Evo 240 radiators
Evo 160 grills
Evo Docking Module
Evo 240/360 External Housing
Aquastream version 3 replacement controllers
Metal T's and Elbows
Plastic T's, Y's, and Elbows
Aquaero LED module
Elbow Adapter for AquagraFX and AquagrAti coolers
Plug & Cool stoppers
Green GlowMotion
AquaDrive LT
more AquagraFX 6800 Rev 2 and AquagrATI 800/850 coolers!
Plus all the special ordered stuff like an Evo 1800, Compacttube, and a couple of Silver XT's
Top Nurse said:A new Sharka shipment is leaving Austria no later than Monday or Tuesday from IT-Trade. More of everything that was already in stock.
more AquagraFX 6800 Rev 2 and AquagrATI 800/850 coolers!
Yay, my aqua fx is coming in, I wonder how long it takes to get from there to sharka.
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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I need opinions. I'm hoping to cool an Athlon64 3000+ overclocked and a GeForce 6600GT non-overclocked, and I can't decide between getting a better block or a bigger radiator. Which of these do you all think would drop temperatures more? (Note: these are both theoretical item lists)
- Eheim 1046
- AC Cuplex Evo
- 120x2 radiator
- 1/8" tubing
OR
- Eheim 1046
- AC Cuplex XT
- 120x1 radiator
- 1/8" tubing
I think with a low-flow rig, a bigger radiator would make more of a difference since the water would spend more time getting cooled down. Opinions?
- Eheim 1046
- AC Cuplex Evo
- 120x2 radiator
- 1/8" tubing
OR
- Eheim 1046
- AC Cuplex XT
- 120x1 radiator
- 1/8" tubing
I think with a low-flow rig, a bigger radiator would make more of a difference since the water would spend more time getting cooled down. Opinions?
Igg said:
Well if it leaves Austria on Monday it travels by truck to Munich and will get on a non-stop jet to Los Angeles by probably Wednesday. Arrives in Los Angeles the same day about 1600-1800. Customs is usually about 24 hours so either Friday afternoon or Monday morning. This is assuming that there are no more German or Austrian holidays next week.
Master Ninja said:
This is what I would suggest as the Cuplex Pro's are about 30% less expensive compared to the XT, which will give you some scoots for your TwinPlex and bigger radiator.
-Eheim 1046
-AC Cuplex Pro
-Evo 240 radiator
- 1/8" tubing (clear or black)
Plus GPU cooler = AC TwinPlex with GF4 or CHIP mounting screen (see pic a ways back)
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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Top Nurse said:This is what I would suggest as the Cuplex Pro's are about 30% less expensive compared to the XT, which will give you some scoots for your TwinPlex and bigger radiator.
Yeah, I forgot the Twinplex, but that'd be in there too. I can't find the Cuplex Pros for sale anywhere in Canada or the US, though. It's all Evos and XTs.
Master Ninja said:
The Cuplex Pro's will be coming into Sharka stock in less than 10 days. See this post.
BTW, while it is too late to special order anything for this shipment there is another shipment coming in about 2-3 weeks from now.
But there seems less and less to special order
ikellensbro
[H]ard|Gawd
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Common misconseption with rads. As Cathar explained in an overclockers.com article, fluid flows through a radiator so that the heat will be pulled into the rad fins. While it may sound like slower=better cooling, think about your WC loop as race track. If the rad takes up 1/4 of the track, and it takes you 1 minute to go around the track, youll spend 15 seconds going through the radiator. Now if it only takes you 30 seconds to go around the track, in 1 lap you will only spend 7.5 seconds going through the rad. But as the first example took a minute to go around the track, if you give the 30 seconds/lap example 1 minute to go around the track, you will have spent a total of 15 seconds in the radiator, just as the first example.Master Ninja said:
Basically, extra flow doesnt decrease a rad's cooling ability, the flow just takes more heat off of the blocks, giving the rad the ability to remove more heat.
lemmy said:
Price wise about a $100. Performance wise no one knows as the first ones to get here are ShoNuff's and mine. However, silver does have better thermal conductivity over copper. They also really look nice!
I think there are still some available by special order only. However, there is only going to be 100 of these blocks ever made. So....order now or forever hold your piece.
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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ikellensbro said:
Good analogy! But here's the thing:
<thermodynamics>
I know heat transfer decreases exponentially over time because the speed of transfer depends on the (decreasing) difference in temperature between the two substances. When a watercooling loop hits a stable temperature, the block(s) is adding as much heat as the rad can remove. The faster the water moves, the smaller the temperature difference will be between the rad and the blocks because more heat will be added/removed on each circuit.
Now, suppose at equilibrium the water spends A seconds in the block and leaves at B degrees. The water spends C seconds in the rad and leaves at D degrees. With all other variables (surface area, thickness & thermal conductivity) constant, the only factors will be the temperature difference and time. Thus, the block's heat transfer rate is (A-C)/B and the rad's transfer rate is (C-A)/D.
If you double the pump's power, then water will only spend B/2 and D/2 seconds in the components. But note that the effectiveness depends on the difference between the high and low temperatures, and not the temperatures themselves. A loop where water drops from 50 to 45 in the rad will behave identically to a loop where water drops from 30 to 25.
</thermodynamics>
Conclusions:
- If all other components are unchanged, increasing or decreasing the waterflow of a system will not affect the system at all. It will only affect the difference between the high and low temperatures in the loop.
- If forced to choose, a larger radiator will be more effective than a better waterblock. A good block will increase the high temperature of the water, which will increase the equilibrium temperature. A larger radiator will decrease the low temperature of the water, and also decrease the equilibrium.
- When choosing a block or radiator, choose ones with a high thermal conductivity, lots of surface area, long pathways and low thickness. All of these will increase the transfer rate of the part.
SCIENCE!
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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simon27 said:so... bigger rad > uber leet block?
Well, a good block will take as much heat off the CPU as possible. This heat is transferred to the water. Thus, if a block is well-designed, it will add as much heat to the water as possible. This increases the highest temperature in the loop. On the other hand, a bigger rad will allow for more surface area and time, thereby increasing the heat transfer out of the water. So it will decrease the lowest temperature in the loop.
The best way to improve a loop is to increase the difference between the high and low temperatures. Obviously, this involves both efficient waterblocks and large rads. But if everything else in the loop remains the same and you had to choose one or the other, a bigger rad will decrease the equilibrium temperature and a better block will increase the equilibrium temperature.
Top Nurse said:Price wise about a $100. Performance wise no one knows as the first ones to get here are ShoNuff's and mine. However, silver does have better thermal conductivity over copper. They also really look nice!
I think there are still some available by special order only. However, there is only going to be 100 of these blocks ever made. So....order now or forever hold your piece.
Also, when society crumbles and all curency is devalued, the silver in your waterblocks could come in handy
J-Mag said:
Oh cool! Now I can invest in silver blocks instead of bags of silver coins
All right you heard it here first at the [H]ardForum! Silver blocks are a good investment so now you can justify buying more silver blocks to your spouse or significant other and look like a responsible upstanding nerd
Oh my goodness, where to start??!!
Right on that it does affect the high/low temps in a loop.
Wrong in that it only affects the high/low temps in a loop. Increased waterflow increases the Reynold's number of the water, improving the convectional heat transfer of both the radiator and the waterblock. The waterblock will perform better, as will the radiator.
This entirely depends on the waterblock and radiator presently being used, and how much of a gain one can expect.
Wrong. A good waterblock offers a lower degree of thermal resistance between the CPU and the water - it does not increase the temperature of the water. The temperature of the water is dictated by the heat-load, which does not change when one changes the waterblock, and how well the radiator is performing.
Rather than go by a visual point of view, I would suggest actually obtaining items for which their thermal properties have been correctly measured and ascertained. A visual inspection of an item is quite likely to be wrong.
Science?
Master Ninja said:
Right on that it does affect the high/low temps in a loop.
Wrong in that it only affects the high/low temps in a loop. Increased waterflow increases the Reynold's number of the water, improving the convectional heat transfer of both the radiator and the waterblock. The waterblock will perform better, as will the radiator.
This entirely depends on the waterblock and radiator presently being used, and how much of a gain one can expect.
Wrong. A good waterblock offers a lower degree of thermal resistance between the CPU and the water - it does not increase the temperature of the water. The temperature of the water is dictated by the heat-load, which does not change when one changes the waterblock, and how well the radiator is performing.
Rather than go by a visual point of view, I would suggest actually obtaining items for which their thermal properties have been correctly measured and ascertained. A visual inspection of an item is quite likely to be wrong.
Science?
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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Oh man, of all the people to critique my post...
Then at what point does a pump become too powerful for a loop? Everyone here has indicated my Hydor L30 is too strong for a low-bore system, but does that mean I should spend the money on a less powerful pump when I already have this one?
Nevertheless, lowering the thermal resistance will allow heat to transfer from the CPU to the water more efficiently, thereby increasing the amount of heat that transfers to water that is in the block. The heat load will not change when the waterblock changes, but the amount of that heat that can be transferred to the water will increase.
That's not always possible, unfortunately. Waterblock specs usually indicate the material they've been made of, but rarely include a measurement of their surface area. If it comes down to a choice of two blocks from the same material and no other information, how else can one compare if not visually?
I didn't mean to express my results as absolute, that was just the thought process I was going through in trying to solve my question. I still feel a larger radiator would be a better investment than a better waterblock; if I'm wrong, I guess you're the one who'd know.
Cathar said:
Then at what point does a pump become too powerful for a loop? Everyone here has indicated my Hydor L30 is too strong for a low-bore system, but does that mean I should spend the money on a less powerful pump when I already have this one?
Nevertheless, lowering the thermal resistance will allow heat to transfer from the CPU to the water more efficiently, thereby increasing the amount of heat that transfers to water that is in the block. The heat load will not change when the waterblock changes, but the amount of that heat that can be transferred to the water will increase.
That's not always possible, unfortunately. Waterblock specs usually indicate the material they've been made of, but rarely include a measurement of their surface area. If it comes down to a choice of two blocks from the same material and no other information, how else can one compare if not visually?
I didn't mean to express my results as absolute, that was just the thought process I was going through in trying to solve my question. I still feel a larger radiator would be a better investment than a better waterblock; if I'm wrong, I guess you're the one who'd know.
Master Ninja said:
Well you're now talking about a different issue. Increased water-flow will increase waterblock and radiator performance.
You're now talking about the issue of heat dump from the pump, and whether or not that is an overwhelming factor in the system's performance. Yes, there does come a point where many pumps will simply add too much heat to the water and consequentially the water heats up by more than anything that's gained through increased flow rates, but that point at which this occurs is dependent upon how well the radiator is working, and how much heat load is entering the system. If the radiator is a beastly monster, you can stick a massive pump into the system and the radiator will shrug off the extra pump heat, and almost all of the flow rate gain's effect on the waterblock is seen. If the radiator is wimpy, then the pump's heat may easily overwhelm any gain seen through increased flow rates.
Also, if the total heat load is large compared to the pump's heat dump, then the heat of the pump is a less significant factor than if the heat load is lowish in comparison to the pump's heat load.
Read that a little more carefully. You've just contradicted yourself. How can the amount of heat that passes into the water increase if the heat load has not changed?
How a "better" waterblock works is explained like this. The heat-source (CPU) is emitting a certain number of watts of heat energy (let's call it X). What happens is that the temperature of the CPU will keep on rising until X watts of heat energy is being passed into the water. The amount of temperature difference that the CPU has to rise by to pass X watts of energy through the waterblock into the water determines the block's efficiency. If we stick a better block on there, then what happens is that the CPU has to increase in temperature by a lesser amount before the exact same X amount of watts of heat energy gets passed into the water.
i.e. no more heat gets passed into the water at all. Just that the CPU doesn't have to get as hot before the same amount of heat gets passed into the water.
Sorry to say it, but the simple answer is that you cannot compare visually, or even if you knew the actual information about surface area, you still cannot.
In terms of surface area, for the blocks I've made, White Water > Cascade > Storm/G4 > Storm/G5, yet in terms of performance it's the other way around.
In terms of base-plate thickness, Storm/G5 > Storm/G4 > Cascade > White Water, yet since you're saying that thinner material work better, then how can you explain that the thicker base-plated blocks are working better?
In fact, all the blocks that I've made work in the exact opposite way to what you're describing. This does not mean that it always has to be that way, it's just due to the particular designs and the way in which they work, but what I'm saying is that if you looked at the base-plate thickness and surface areas of the block designs that I make, you would come to the opposite conclusions with respect to how they actually perform.
If we look at some examples of radiator performance on the Web, we can see that with a dual fan radiator and some not-too-noisy fans that it's possible to achieve a C/W of around 0.035 or so. If our total system heat load is 100W, then that means that the water will be 0.035 x 100 = 3.5C warmer than the air flowing into the radiator. If we stick tri-fan radiator in there now with some fairly noisy fans, we might get down to a C/W of around 0.02. If our heat load is 100W, then our water temp is now 2.0C above the radiator air intake.
That gives us a 1.5C improvement, mind you with a fair whack of extra noise. Compare that against some of the temperature gains that good blocks offer over average blocks (3-6C at the least for an actual 100W CPU heat load), and the waterblock will give you a better gain without increasing your noise level.
Of course, if you're already using a near-as-good-as-it-gets block, and the best you'll get is a 1C gain, then maybe it would be better to update the radiator, but if we turned the fans down in speed in lessen the noise, we might end up with only a 1C gain at the water again, so we're still level-pegging.
This is the rub - more radiator capacity either means more noise or more space, or often both, and even then it only really equates to what a better block can do for you.
This is of course a case-by-case scenario. If all you're using at present is a single black ice micro, then by all means, upgrade the radiator first.
What I'm getting at is that it's not a straight-forwards as simply doing one or the other. You can't draw a conclusion that upgrading the radiator is always going to be the better choice.
Master Ninja
Limp Gawd
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OK, I was misreading what you meant by heat-load. I took it to mean the amount of heat that is being emitted by the CPU.
As for the waterblock performances, I was indicating that each of those aspects individually would allow the block to transfer heat more effectively. The actual equation for heat transfer is Q=tKA(T_hot - T_cold)/d, where t=time, K=thermal conductivity, A=surface area and d=thickness. If several of those values change between blocks, it's more difficult to predict which one will perform better.
The difficulty comes in the fact that this is a new system, not an upgrade to an existing system. Absolutely no one accepts returns on watercooling gear, and I do not consider buying lots of parts and selling the ones I don't use an ideal solution, so I prefer to plan out as much as I can beforehand.
As for the waterblock performances, I was indicating that each of those aspects individually would allow the block to transfer heat more effectively. The actual equation for heat transfer is Q=tKA(T_hot - T_cold)/d, where t=time, K=thermal conductivity, A=surface area and d=thickness. If several of those values change between blocks, it's more difficult to predict which one will perform better.
The difficulty comes in the fact that this is a new system, not an upgrade to an existing system. Absolutely no one accepts returns on watercooling gear, and I do not consider buying lots of parts and selling the ones I don't use an ideal solution, so I prefer to plan out as much as I can beforehand.
Has anyone seen Dan around? I asked him to refund my money a few days ago because the black aquatube wasn't dated for stock, and then yesterday I demanded he refund me..... I still havn't gotten anything back as far as emails / funds go.... lets this be a note to anyone purchasing with him...
Mysticcal said:Has anyone seen Dan around? I asked him to refund my money a few days ago because the black aquatube wasn't dated for stock, and then yesterday I demanded he refund me..... I still havn't gotten anything back as far as emails / funds go.... lets this be a note to anyone purchasing with him...
Dan has been avoiding everyone for a couple of weeks now. Sorry your having trouble, but short of filing a civil suit, reporting them to the BBB, or something along those lines I can't help you.
SNT was removed from the Aqua Computer websites (both English and German) recently for reasons I can surmise, but am not exactly sure about.- Status