TF2 Engie Update: ?

S

Slachtbeest

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
248
Just wondering what's up with the Engie update, as from what I read today, it seems that there's nothing new except a total (available in-game, as I'm reading it; whole thing doesn't make sense to me) of 100 gold wrenches, and other than that, the Engie got a new shotgun.

That's it? Or was that all that Shacknews happened to be informed of at the time. They didn't make it sound as if there were any more to come, and I would have thought they'd have done something with Engie construction in one way or another... upgrades, new things etc.

Anyone know if this is really the only change being made with the Engie? Just a shotgun (I don't count the one wrench)?
 
Every 25 wrenches that are found a new part of the update will be posted online. And the update will be up for download on thursday apparently.
 
xenios said:
Every 25 wrenches that are found a new part of the update will be posted online. And the update will be up for download on thursday apparently.
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Oh, alright... didn't see that explained, obviously I missed it somewhere, thanks.

Anyone have any idea what they're doing with the Engie? Probably not yet, but since it's always been one of my favorite classes, thought I'd ask, in the event.
 
Slachtbeest said:
Ha ha, I could do that. :p

How/what do you use to attempt to craft one of the wrenches? It's not listed under any blueprints. Since I'm playing now, might as well give it a shot >.<
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I'm pretty sure it's just random through crafting. Like you could discover it by creating scrap metal.
 
I've been crafting like mad trying to get one of those. Mostly because my TF2 partner is an engie junkie and that would piss him off.
 
Yeah I just turned all my stuff I could into scrap hoping to get a wrench. It just makes me mad because before they added crafting I had a load of stuff in my backpack and it kept making me have to delete items...so one day I cleared it out because it was irritating the hell out of me.

And then they fiddled with the drop rates and added crafting..so I never got back to my level of items I had without a lot more play time. So I just kinda stopped. Then I finally built up enough stuff just a couple weeks back I thought I might be able to finally make a hat.......and I didn't but then this comes around. I have the worst timing in the world.
 
I know the feeling. I never bothered looking at the crafting bit since all it was good for was making hats or weapons I already had and/or didn't care to use. I hadn't bothered to keep ANYTHING it gave me unless I didn't already have it. Then this comes up and Valve rewards the hoarders.
 
There are some combinations of blueprints where you can combine like a kritzkrieg and bonk drink to get a critacola...so I find those useful. Because it takes 2 items to make a scrap, 3 scraps to make a refined ( I think that's the name), 3 refined to make the next step up, and then 3 of those to make a hat ( if I remember correctly). So that's 2x3x3x3 items for one hat which is a little insane..and it becomes even more if you want to make it a specific class's hat. So that's A LOT of chances you missed out on if you did this a couple weeks ago..and there's just no way in hell you'll get even a quarter of those in an entire week.
 
The engineer is the most broken class in TF2, 2-3 engineers can hold back more or less an entire team (on a public server) especially with a small amount of teamwork to guard the sentries with pyros etc.

The engineer only has 1 natural enemy that stands a chance of taking out sentries and thats the demoman, there are very few good demoman about and lots of places to put sentries which are tricky to get to, and/or easy to defend.

From what ive seen so far it doesn't look as if they're going to do any toning down of the sentries strength in fact quite the opposite. I played some games today and it was the same boring thing over and over, running into countless level 3 sentries and being the only person in the team with any skills to take them down, but ultimately respawning and getting back to the front lines to find them all instantly rebuilt.

sigh...
 
PrincessFrosty said:
The engineer is the most broken class in TF2, 2-3 engineers can hold back more or less an entire team (on a public server) especially with a small amount of teamwork to guard the sentries with pyros etc.

The engineer only has 1 natural enemy that stands a chance of taking out sentries and thats the demoman, there are very few good demoman about and lots of places to put sentries which are tricky to get to, and/or easy to defend.

From what ive seen so far it doesn't look as if they're going to do any toning down of the sentries strength in fact quite the opposite. I played some games today and it was the same boring thing over and over, running into countless level 3 sentries and being the only person in the team with any skills to take them down, but ultimately respawning and getting back to the front lines to find them all instantly rebuilt.

sigh...
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Depends on the situation. I rarely play outside goldrush but imo the spy can easily take out 1 engie and his setup. Soldiers with direct hit (even non direct hit) can take them down as well. Just depends on the player.
 
Lol Frosty has said this before. If the lvl3's were weaker, engies would be worthless. Plus I think you're over-estimating pyros here. Most pyros are very dumb, enough that I need to switch off my main b/c the team doesn't have enough spy-checking pyros. I may be pessimistic here, but pyros aren't used correctly most of the time, and hence, sentries are always vulnerable to spies - even bad ones.
 
Not in my experience, it rarely happens. I've tried the spy a lot and I'm no expert but I'm pretty good, the engineer is just going to wrench you the instant he spots you, the wrench seems to crit about 50% of the time for the engineer and he just one shots you, the shotgun trumps the pistols and the sappers take so long to kill anything that basically unless you can actually kill the engineer you're not going to get anything.

The major problem is that engineers can put sentries so close together that a spy cannot effectively do anything, you might be able to sap a few things but they're just knocked off almost instantly and if you try and combat the engineer you're blown to bits.

Engineers are greater than the sum of their parts when they defend the same area, and it doesn't really require teamwork, just being in close proximity. However a medic + assault combo requires quite a lot of teamwork and still has a high chance of failure due to the immsense push the sentry has and other factors like scouts baseballs and pyros air blasts.

Game is too heavily stacked in favour of defence and it makes for boring stalemates more often than not, they need to make the engineer skill based rather than giving him this near on invincible weapon that pretty much has no downside.
 
The sentry doesnt need to be weaker, it just needs to be skill based, currently its not, you plonk down a sentry and irrelevent of skill it pwns the crap out of basically all the classes, it has no natural counter, the game is very much rock paper scissors yet engineers dont fear any class.

You have to be an above average player to kill a sentry and the pub servers are crammed with average players or below. I think the game should be designed for public play, you should have to rely on joining a clan or something like that, just to have balanced/fun game.
 
"You have to be an above average player to kill a sentry"

lol

Side note, Yay! new payload maps...how boring
 
PrincessFrosty said:
The major problem is that engineers can put sentries so close together that a spy cannot effectively do anything, you might be able to sap a few things but they're just knocked off almost instantly and if you try and combat the engineer you're blown to bits.
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Yea, well 2 engies should > 1 spy ... And if they stack sentries like that, they're asking to be owned by a demoman even without a medic.

Also, did anyone read the whole stink about some valve employee leaking the slotted time for guaranteed golden wrenches? Apparently 3 people got banned so far,lol.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1346549&page=122
 
Seen a lot of people who have no problems taking out sentries solo or otherwise, and usually without uber.

It's just a matter of locating them a lot of the time, if you have a good idea of where it is prior to getting killed by it...you can kill it with a soldier/demo and sometimes even a heavy if the timing is right as it kills someone else.

And most servers anymore, pyros barely spy check and if the spy avoids killing them...they never spy check because they personally were not killed by the spy so the spy does not exist to them.

It basically boils down to team balance in any and all games. If your team has a bunch of solo players who are out for themselves instead of working toward the goal of the map...you are going to lose. Engineers who facilitate team movements, get team support in return. So if they are keep their teleporter up, dispenser in a useful location...and their gun in a spot people can get to..they usually help out.

So if you as a spy start breaking down the engineers "team efforts" (Kill their teleporters, dispensers), the team starts to get really pissed at them...and then their guns are easier to kill. And as an added bonus for killing teleporters, you have less people around on either offense or defense unless you're at the very beginning or very end of the map.

Plus spies who time out their saps (IE tell the team which gun they are sapping and when) can let a team roll in and blow it out of existence with one rocket/grenade or some gun fire.


My guess is if you are having trouble beating a defense, it probably isn't just the guns holding you back. The defending team is probably as good or better than the offensive team...and that's what makes Team Fortress fun. Sure it's fun to steamroll, but then the server dies after about 3 rounds of steamrolling because the losing team departs en masse each round. Most good servers will randomize or re-balance the teams every couple rounds.
 
Sure a lot of people (myself included) have little problem taking out sentries, I play demoman, lay 4 stickies and boom dead. The main problem is that these players are few and far between on public servers, it also means that people like me are often bullied into going demoman all the ficken time because otherwise a fun game is impossible, it's just headlong into sentry walls every time.

All I ask is that all classes are equally skill based, that people reap rewards eqivelent to the effort/skill they put in. No other class gets the sort of easymode the engineer gets. if they took skill to play and you're running into an unbeatable wall of sentries then at least it would be fair.

Bleh anyway I'll try out the update and see how it goes, I dont expect anything to change much if anything the engineer will probably become a greater foe.
 
I wouldn't call being engie easy. I call Pyro easy, and heavy easy.

When you are Engie, and building in a location to benefit your team, everyone is out to get you and your base. Spies are looking to backstab you, demos are placing stickies that you have to shoot, and Heavys are trying to use their medics to get you.

It takes skill to know where to set up your sentry, and where to put your dispenser so teammates can get to it. You have to set up defenses in areas where the enemy is right in your face, and you have to defend.
 
lol it doesnt take skill to find good sentry spots, its as simple as copying what you see other effective engies do in the past
and a spy does not have a chance to solo a sentry guarded by a decent engie

sure a demo can solo a sentry but often the sentries are not in places a demo can even close to without getting ambushed by other enemies

I do think sentries are overpowered and create very boring stalemate fests but another culprit is the map design. Almost every map makes it too easy for a few players to pretty much lock down their base.
The absolute worse is 2fort: Only 2 ways into the intel, through the courtyard thats always camped and through the spawn room where enemies are always at. And then the intel basement can easily be camped. Even if you some how get to the intel, you'll have half the enemy team coming down to kill you. I know its Team "Fortress" but this game would be so much better if it wasnt so campy.
 
Engie is the least "easy" class to play I'd say. A good engie goes a long way. Pyro and Heavy, even demo are much easier now.

Heavy is so unbalanced. You get a team of 4 heavies against a crappy pub and it's a roll-fest. They did NOT need any of the recent changes they got.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
The engineer is the most broken class in TF2, 2-3 engineers can hold back more or less an entire team (on a public server) especially with a small amount of teamwork to guard the sentries with pyros etc.

The engineer only has 1 natural enemy that stands a chance of taking out sentries and thats the demoman, there are very few good demoman about and lots of places to put sentries which are tricky to get to, and/or easy to defend.

From what ive seen so far it doesn't look as if they're going to do any toning down of the sentries strength in fact quite the opposite. I played some games today and it was the same boring thing over and over, running into countless level 3 sentries and being the only person in the team with any skills to take them down, but ultimately respawning and getting back to the front lines to find them all instantly rebuilt.

sigh...
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Sounds like you need to find better servers.

A friend and I play TF2 together almost every night. We almost always play as heavy/medic, with me as the medic. Lately, it's become quite common for him to pull kill/death ratios between 5 and 10 with my assist ratios being slightly lower. I say that to point out that a well-played engineer is no more effective than any other class; I've seen spies, snipers, and demomen be far more influential on the outcome of a game than engineers.
 
As for easy/no skill classes, look at the soldier. Who needs to aim? Just spam rockets across the map and wait for some poor soul to stumble into them. A startling percentage of my deaths are one-shots by crit rockets killing a full-health medic. They don't require the precision of a sniper, the skill of a demo, or the close range of a heavy or pyro.

Speaking of pyro, they get a bad rep. Sure you can play by holding W and Mouse 1, but the skill in playing pyro is putting yourself into position to do more than run up, set a few people on fire, and hope they can't make it to a health pack after they kill you. A good pyro finds an unguarded flank and appears in the middle of the enemy's forces, setting a half-dozen of them on fire and completely disrupting them so the rest of the team can press the advantage.

And no, heavy isn't easy. A team with a lot of heavies risks losing everything to a good demo, spy, or sniper. Basically anything that can sit at range and lay down accurate fire can stop a heavy.
 
vasta said:
"You have to be an above average player to kill a sentry"

lol

Side note, Yay! new payload maps...how boring
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Hightower looks like it will result in some crazy fights at the end, assuming the spawn points are well-placed.
 
PopeKevinI said:
And no, heavy isn't easy. A team with a lot of heavies risks losing everything to a good demo, spy, or sniper. Basically anything that can sit at range and lay down accurate fire can stop a heavy.
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Not when they have a good or even fair, supporting team.
 
PopeKevinI said:
Hightower looks like it will result in some crazy fights at the end, assuming the spawn points are well-placed.
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I wouldn't know about that, I've played zero minutes of PL, not sure why I just never got into it...I find the pushing of a cart to be...boring
 
Lol are you saying you've never played Gold Rush or Badwater? I can get the more eccentric PL maps on the 24/7 servers, but seriously?
 
It's fun playing Demo when the defense has 16 players...and 13 of them are engineers

In one round I had 30 destructions...GIMME MOAR POINTS
 
Fun update, only played it for an hour and a half but I'm really enjoying the new payload maps. Hightower and Upward are crazy fun.
 
Serpico said:
Fun update, only played it for an hour and a half but I'm really enjoying the new payload maps. Hightower and Upward are crazy fun.
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Indeed. I only played Hightower and Thunder Mountain once, but Upward was really fun to play. On upward, it seems like you can get into more nooks and crannies, more little areas to help you hide and attack from multiple locations.
 
Tunnel Vision said:
It's fun playing Demo when the defense has 16 players...and 13 of them are engineers

In one round I had 30 destructions...GIMME MOAR POINTS
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i think i got that much on a single life
was fun spoiling the engies fun but wow more servers need to enable class limits
 
"wow more servers need to enable class limits"
+1

The servers that I play on limit engies and pyros to 3 per team. While it may be a pain in the ass when you are trying to try out the new update, it keeps there from being 15 engies. Especially when valve does the free weekends in conjunction with a class update!
 
PopeKevinI said:
As for easy/no skill classes, look at the soldier. Who needs to aim? Just spam rockets across the map and wait for some poor soul to stumble into them. A startling percentage of my deaths are one-shots by crit rockets killing a full-health medic. They don't require the precision of a sniper, the skill of a demo, or the close range of a heavy or pyro.

Speaking of pyro, they get a bad rep. Sure you can play by holding W and Mouse 1, but the skill in playing pyro is putting yourself into position to do more than run up, set a few people on fire, and hope they can't make it to a health pack after they kill you. A good pyro finds an unguarded flank and appears in the middle of the enemy's forces, setting a half-dozen of them on fire and completely disrupting them so the rest of the team can press the advantage.

And no, heavy isn't easy. A team with a lot of heavies risks losing everything to a good demo, spy, or sniper. Basically anything that can sit at range and lay down accurate fire can stop a heavy.
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There are no hard or easy classes. The only thing hard is mastering a class and I'll say the soldier and demo are the hardest to master. Airshotting people and killing people with rocket jumps are not easy. For the demo, using the grenade launcher and sticky bombs with precision takes a lot of time to get good with.
 
anyone else kind of underwhelmed by the update? I was hoping they would focus on the sentry. Given, they included the sentry in a couple of the items, but really didn't add anything to it.

I would have liked to see something like a flame sentry for better spy detection, or some kind of device that will randomly kill spys if they try to sap it (random meaning sometimes it'll kill them, sometimes it won't, or maybe sometimes it'll malfunction and blow the sentry up), balanced accordingly of course.
 
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