TF2 update Q&A... 100% critical medigun?

Table said:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/861/861991p1.html

seems overpowered to me... but perhaps im wrong

still good to see the update should be coming soon
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There is a MASSIVE problem with the crits in this game, whats the point of a 100% chance to crit for 10 seconds with say an ubered heavy when more or less 1 crit rocket or grenade back at him will take him out in 1 hit? That would be a massive waste of effort.

For a good player who can keep themselves alive by playing well, crits are an absolute nightmare, there's nothing you can do to stop them and most of the time they're completely random and undeserved, which means they're impossible to predict and good players who can usualy win in confrontations, find themselves dying to crits more often than not.

I'm also a bit worried that everyone is going to want the medic achievements and spam the medic which will completely unbalance the teams, they need to work all this stuff out for all the classes and release at once. It wouldn't be too bad but some of the achievements seem pretty tough to get like ubering 1 second before a crit hits the person you're healing, that's crazy.
 
Sounds like a great weapon and definitely has some pros and cons.

Would work great attacking from a distance. Charge a soldier or demo and fire off a ton of crit shots towards the enemy. With ubercharge you have to get right in the heat of battle to make it useful, but with this you could keep a distance and cause some big damage.

Frosteh I know what you mean. It's annoying when you're all over another player then they randomly get a crit shot to kill you. Dieing because the other player is better skilled then you is fine, but a lucky crit shot sucks. Not to mention those crit rockets seem impossible to avoid, and for some reason I always find myself walking infront of them. And yea, give a skilled demoman 100% crits and he'll clear through their entire front line in no time.
 
I like crits makes the game more flexible

and yes its annoying when some guy suddenly pops out a crit sticky and kills you in sudden death...but on the other hand plopping your own sticky down in a group and seeing the gore is satisfying

the only class you would use the 100% crit uber on is a demo man
 
Frosteh said:
There is a MASSIVE problem with the crits in this game, whats the point of a 100% chance to crit for 10 seconds with say an ubered heavy when more or less 1 crit rocket or grenade back at him will take him out in 1 hit? That would be a massive waste of effort.

For a good player who can keep themselves alive by playing well, crits are an absolute nightmare, there's nothing you can do to stop them and most of the time they're completely random and undeserved, which means they're impossible to predict and good players who can usualy win in confrontations, find themselves dying to crits more often than not.

I'm also a bit worried that everyone is going to want the medic achievements and spam the medic which will completely unbalance the teams, they need to work all this stuff out for all the classes and release at once. It wouldn't be too bad but some of the achievements seem pretty tough to get like ubering 1 second before a crit hits the person you're healing, that's crazy.
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Where do you see that achievement? Most of these achievements seem pretty easy, I don't see anything insane like ubering 1 second before a crit hits. It seems to be basic stuff like heal and engineer, extinguish someone on fire, kill a scout with the syringe gun, etc.

Also, I'm hoping that Valve releasing the Medic achievements first make people actually PLAY the medic on pubs... it's already unbalanced because everyone avoids the medic like the plague.
 
Will we be able to "double-uber"? 2 Medics with different mediguns on the same player?
 
Roufuss said:
Where do you see that achievement? Most of these achievements seem pretty easy, I don't see anything insane like ubering 1 second before a crit hits. It seems to be basic stuff like heal and engineer, extinguish someone on fire, kill a scout with the syringe gun, etc.

Also, I'm hoping that Valve releasing the Medic achievements first make people actually PLAY the medic on pubs... it's already unbalanced because everyone avoids the medic like the plague.
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Read it somewhere, don't remember the source, sorry.
 
The 100% crit gun would come in really useful, it would be the answer to shitloads of sentries.
 
I still think critical hits are dumb outside of an RPG. I should get killed because you are better than me (or vice versa, i should kill you because i am better than you), not because of the roll of the dice.
 
Frosteh said:
For a good player who can keep themselves alive by playing well, crits are an absolute nightmare, there's nothing you can do to stop them and most of the time they're completely random and undeserved, which means they're impossible to predict and good players who can usualy win in confrontations, find themselves dying to crits more often than not.
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Not sure if you are aware, but the crit system in TF2 is: the better you are doing, the more crit you get.
 
i cant wait for the first week this comes out....im going heavy or pyro,..and i will have 3 medics on me 24/7
 
aznpxdd said:
Not sure if you are aware, but the crit system in TF2 is: the better you are doing, the more crit you get.
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Thats what valve claim but I see no real evidence of this, I'm at the top of the scoreboard most of the time and don't appear to crit as freqently as everyone else, people also randomly crit when they've been doing nothing but missing, or sometimes once they've spawned the first shot, it appears to be completely random.
 
Glad to see they are going to follow through with the unlocks. 10 seconds of crits I don't know how well that will work on its own. If you get one medic to uber one heavy and another medic to uber crit another heavy it should work well together. as the uber heavy draws the sentry fire, the other uber crit heavy can take them down. or a solider. i think the game is already balanced well so I hope they don't cause problems. valve is the best in the business with balance so I'm not worried.
 
Eh, to me, crit is one of those features you don't really care if you are the one shooting it. But once you get kill by a crit, its time to bitch!
 
tskiller said:
I still think critical hits are dumb outside of an RPG. I should get killed because you are better than me (or vice versa, i should kill you because i am better than you), not because of the roll of the dice.
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It's not like there are a shortage of shooters that cater to that sentiment. Valve did everything they could to make TF2 as accessible and fun as possible. Any in many aspects that prevents it from being a hard-shooter like Counter Strike or UT.
As soon as you make so that whoever gets the upper hand wins a fight, the better player almost always wins. That pretty quickly gets frustrating and boring for players that don't have the time invested in the game to know the lead distance for rockets or grenades, who don't know the minigun's cone of fire or the pyro's range.

TF2 tries to be fun for a wide range of skills, and that will put off some of the skill players because it lessens their advantage over the field. It is however, well liked by the rest of the field because it reduces the number of situations where they have no hope of winning a fight.

I'll take a game that's fun over a game that's competitive any time; even if it means every so often I'm cursing some bastards lucky critical hit.
 
aznpxdd said:
Eh, to me, crit is one of those features you don't really care if you are the one shooting it. But once you get kill by a crit, its time to bitch!
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I feel bad when I crit people. I really really hate it. I need to find a server with them turned off.
 
I like the crit system, keeps the gameplay random and fun. While I dont know how well it gives them out for "doing better" but I get more crits if I am facing a lot of players or randomly every few shots. I think they are well balanced and keep the fun / random factor in it.

I wont play on a server that disables them, completely unbalances the game IMO.

Crits make the good players even better, if you aim your shots well and keep trak you can make your hits count much more. They also give the noobs a chance. I think its a great way to keep the new players coming since they can actually do something. Yet they dont give them any real edge of the experienced who can dodge them or know how to place them better.

That became the problem with TFC and is already clouding the FF mod. The players who play so much that they know every nuance can ruin it for the casual gamer as well as the new and experienced. However in TF2 they have to face the fact that they cannot predict how a random occurence will tweek gameplay forcing them to work together.

With how long its taken TF2 to actually come about I cant think of any changes that wouldnt require more and more as things change. There are aspects I dont like or might change but then other things would have to be changed.

I look forward to the update, I am hopefull that they will work hard to balance it out like they did with TF2 during the beta. By time release came around most of the serious issues had been fixed at least.

Good read, I like how they spoke about the fall off's to having 100% crits. Will make you the target of eveyones fire just like being uberd. People run away from you till it runs off and then try to slaughter you. Unless you manage to get them all down before your ammo / uber runs off lol.
 
Here is the new info about the update


The next batch of free content for the PC edition of Team Fortress 2--including the new Goldrush map, unlockable weapons, and Meet the Scout video--is slated to arrive the week of April 20, developer Valve has informed Shacknews.
Outside of that general timeframe, a specific release date for the new content was not provided.
Goldrush will mark the first map in a new game mode called "Payload," which will task the Blue team with herding a mine cart full of explosives toward the Red base. The more players near the cart, the faster it will move, the Red team winning if it prevents Blue from reaching its goal. The map will also be the first to utilize the cinematic physics technology from Half-Life 2: Episode Two.
Though unlockable weapons will eventually spread to all classes, the Medic class will be the first to receive new armament. According to a recent IGN interview, a total of three new items will be available, unlocked by earning a set number of the new class-specific achievements.
While Valve had discussed an Overhealer gun that would double a target's health, the studio is currently testing a Medic gun that, once charged, will guarantee targets ten seconds of continuous critical hits.
Valve previously explained that the unlockable items would be equipped via a new loadout menu, suggesting that gamers will not be able to easily swap between the new tools in the midst of battle.
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Ripskin said:
Crits make the good players even better, if you aim your shots well and keep trak you can make your hits count much more.
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which is why they suck. TF2 already has a tendency for one team to dominate another, players who do well get rewarded with killing people with one freaking shot, making it even more lopsided. very rarely anymore do I see a well balanced match. one team just crit rolls over the other.

how is spawning, running out into the fray and dying instantly before you can do anything over and over fun?
 
Monkey God said:
which is why they suck. TF2 already has a tendency for one team to dominate another, players who do well get rewarded with killing people with one freaking shot, making it even more lopsided. very rarely anymore do I see a well balanced match. one team just crit rolls over the other.

how is spawning, running out into the fray and dying instantly before you can do anything over and over fun?
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They've done the same thing that games like CS do. They give the winners a BIGGER advantage, which means the people who are good simply win more. The same way the winners in CS are rewarded with more money.

If you listen to the commentary they claim that in play testing there would be stalemates more often than not and they needed to give one team an advantage for playing well.

This is a more basic problem that has it's roots set in core gameplay element which goes along the lines of:- defending is vastly easier than attacking. Defending with sentries requires no effort on behalf of the engineer, and teamwork was a simple case of engineers happening to build sentries near each other to cover them from spies etc.

Attacking requires far more coordination you need to stick in waves rather than trickling through, most people are crap as spies and theres little reason for people to go as a medic. Teamwork just doesn't exist in public servers for attacking where as defending is really REALLY easy, just plop down 3-4 sentries in the highly bottlenecked maps and defend them with pyros and snipers and whatnot.

They need to make defending harder, so that attacking is naturally easier and then remove this crit rubbish to balance it out. The fact that engineers practically crit 100% with their wrench is a perfect testiment to the problems facing the attacks, spies stand no chance when they're dead in one hit because the engineers turret has perfect accuracy.
 
sentries are easy. ubered demo- done. you only need a little bit of team work to roll defenses.
yes I agree chokepoints are annoying because of the demo spam, but sentries are no big deal.

a stalemate is better in my mind than one team raping another round after round after round.
 
Monkey God said:
sentries are easy. ubered demo- done. you only need a little bit of team work to roll defenses.
yes I agree chokepoints are annoying because of the demo spam, but sentries are no big deal.

a stalemate is better in my mind than one team raping another round after round after round.
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Nope, not with several engineers all healing the same couple of turrets, one uber isn't enough.

I've been pretty damn close to a sentry before with the HWG just constantly hitting the sentry and it's just been constantly healed throughout the whole uber, they block shots to the engineers so you can't take them out, and they push you back too much so you can't close in to increase your damage (as a HWG) or hit the engineer with a flame from the pyro.
 
Yeah but the coordination to have 1 demoman good enough to do that with 1 medic smart enough to uber the demo man, at the right time in the right place while he still has ammo (now they're nerfed) etc etc, it's just FAR too much coordination to expect from a team of random people. Compared to the coordination that defending takes which is essentiall none.

Defending needs to be more coordinated, they need to nerf the crap out of the sentries and only have them this powerful under certain conditions, they need to stop the engineers building dispensers right next to their own sentries or better yet allow them to build one or the other. That way they rely on other players dropping ammo (or metal) in a similar way to the old TFC, that would eliminate the infinite camping abilities unless the team helped the engineers out by constantly dropping ammo (teamwork)
 
its not that hard bro, just the two people need to talk. demo hurts himself to uber, then runs out and whacks the defenses. the hardest part is getting the rest of the team to stop jacking off and to attack at the same time to win the map. most of the time they are hiding or running around looking for med packs because they are afraid to die or something.
 
If it's not that hard why do I play for hours and hours and hours and never see it?

All I see is constant and unrelenting sentrygun rape.
 
you must play in the wrong servers..

When you get a server full of people with a mic, it happens all the time

or heres an idea

get a mic yourself! and all you have to say is..."hey im medic, i need to uber a demoman so we can take out those damn sentries."

9 times out of 10...someone will say ok, or say, ill switch to demo...whether they have a mic or not


stop being a damn sheep and take some leadership when playing, maybe you'll have a little more fun
 
Dethman said:
you must play in the wrong servers..

When you get a server full of people with a mic, it happens all the time

or heres an idea

get a mic yourself! and all you have to say is..."hey im medic, i need to uber a demoman so we can take out those damn sentries."

9 times out of 10...someone will say ok, or say, ill switch to demo...whether they have a mic or not

stop being a damn sheep and take some leadership when playing, maybe you'll have a little more fun
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+11ty billion
step up
 
how's this for being original, I'm not going to whine and complain like many of the posters in this thread but simply say that I'm looking forward to the update and I'm sure it will be plenty of fun.. :D
 
Techx said:
how's this for being original, I'm not going to whine and complain like many of the posters in this thread but simply say that I'm looking forward to the update and I'm sure it will be plenty of fun.. :D
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Exactly, I play medic about 90% of the time and love it, now it sucks when people waste my uber or just leave me to die when they clearly see the other team coming, but I still love the class. I am glad the medic will see some new weapons first because it will give me some variety in my play.
 
An ubered heavy can easily take out sentries if the medic competent. Medics are supposed to run in front of the heavy to draw fire fro the SG so the heavy can run closer. An engi/SG has no chance once the heavy gets close enough.
 
Frosteh said:
Nope, not with several engineers all healing the same couple of turrets, one uber isn't enough.

I've been pretty damn close to a sentry before with the HWG just constantly hitting the sentry and it's just been constantly healed throughout the whole uber, they block shots to the engineers so you can't take them out, and they push you back too much so you can't close in to increase your damage (as a HWG) or hit the engineer with a flame from the pyro.
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we deal with it all the time - 2 ubered heavies will take out 3-4 sentries without a problem, and that's not that hard to organize even on a pubby server. Put them in a row if needed to push through the fire to get close enough.
 
Monkey God said:
I feel bad when I crit people. I really really hate it. I need to find a server with them turned off.
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Funny, when I see three snipers hanging out across the map and I spam four rockets at them and get a crit, I smile when I hear it burst.
 
Dethman said:
you must play in the wrong servers..

When you get a server full of people with a mic, it happens all the time

or heres an idea

get a mic yourself! and all you have to say is..."hey im medic, i need to uber a demoman so we can take out those damn sentries."

9 times out of 10...someone will say ok, or say, ill switch to demo...whether they have a mic or not


stop being a damn sheep and take some leadership when playing, maybe you'll have a little more fun
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What on earth is a "wrong server"?

I join servers at random based on who pings lowest and has space in a map I like, this is how the majorety of people pick their server to play on.

And for your information I own a mic and play with it on most of the time, I do ask for other people to heal me and go as medic and try and heal other people, suffice to say most pub players aren't capable and end up wasting the uber, even when you heal players who are good and have high scores, half of them still end up retreating with the uber active. Besides why should I always get pinned into the medic/demoman role? I'd like to play some other classes from time to time but it just turns into more sentrygun rape.

Arguing that you have to play on the "right" servers is just stupid, most newbs don't know the difference they just join the first server they see, it should be balance no matter what the skill level.

My point is simply that defence takes no teamwork where as attack takes too much teamwork, thats why we have balance issues and valve need to invent gameplay mechanics like critical hits and ubercharge.
 
well then if you dont like the game, why are you playing it? it seems you are finding everything you hate about the game and whining about it

and why are you playing on noob servers?

some more advice:

find a few clan servers that is usually active with clan members, and ones that you think you'll get along with ... that way you know your playing with people with some integrity, and that are willing to use teamwork, and that have some experience playing


it should be balance no matter what the skill level.
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no it shouldnt, the higher skill level players should be better.....and its called TEAM fortress..its designed to use teamwork

and your not tied down to medic/demo..

an ubered sodiler/heavy, and demo can all take out sentries easily...as well as a spy

my god man..
 
Most people aren't really effective at playing a demoman. If you can get within shooting range of a sentry unmolested for about a few seconds, it's gone - simple as that. Dropping 3ish stickies nearby the turret, which you don't even have to expose yourself to the turret's fire to do, does more damage in one shot than a L3 turret has health. If it's a pub server, it's likely taking the engineer who sat there trying to repair it and his dispenser with it. An uber just means you can be lazy about it.

Really, speaking as an engineer.. if you're watching your sentry and you see the first sticky land next to it from a demoman that the SG's obviously not able to shoot back at, what can you do? The only exceptions are some nasty placements when backed up by teammates swarming over the spots where the demo would be able to fire from, like a lot of Dustbowl when you're on offense. On 2Fort, Hydro and Gravelpit, there's generally safe spots to nail a sentry from.
 
Demo Gameplay
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xfF1twhd69A&fmt=18

That's an video of me playing as a demo (around the time TF2 was released). Notice how easily I take out sentries without getting shot (no ubers needed). As a demo, it's extremely easy to take out sentry guns unless they're too far away from you. In which case you can switch to Soldier or Sniper and take them out.

Also, if you're on a team that loses or wins constantly it's because you're not using teamwork or because you should switch to even the teams. You don't have to be good to do well, you just have to be smart. Some people just stick to one class like idiots even when that class is useless...Don't be stubborn and Switch to whatever class your team needs in order to advance based on the map, whether you're attacking or defending and based on how your team is doing.

Sentries ahead? Go as a soldier and shoot them from far. Or be a demo and shoot sticking around a corner then detonate them. The sentries have a delay before shooting, so they won't even scratch you. If the sentry's close to a corner, you can even get them as a pyro in a couple of seconds. Or go as a spy, sap them and have soldiers/demos come in right after to destroy them while the engi hits your sapper.

Use teamwork and you'll do fine. According to the latest STEAM polls, about 75% of users have a mic, so talk to people and chances are you'll find some who will help you.

Now to get back to the Medic crits...I hate them. I've gotten killed in 2-3 siringe hits from miles away a few times and it's just bs. They're way too strong now considering how fast and how many the medic can shoot. By the time you shoot twice, the medic shot 40 siringes your way and it only takes 2-3 to kill you.
 
theDreamer said:
Exactly, I play medic about 90% of the time and love it, now it sucks when people waste my uber or just leave me to die when they clearly see the other team coming, but I still love the class. I am glad the medic will see some new weapons first because it will give me some variety in my play.
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me too. finally a fps recognizes a gamestyle I really love to play ..what a blast! the saw gets me tonnes of kills so it will be interesting to see this addition

great game!
 
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