The Apple Philosophy @ [H] Consumer

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Jason_Wall

[H] Consumer Managing Editor
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Messages
2,138
Apple only holds about 5% of the personal computer market share, but the iPod dominates the personal media player market with nearly 75%. Our Apple expert tells us why Apple's philosophical approach has finally paid off for them.

This monolithic approach stands in stark contrast to the fragmented, disjointed implementation of other personal MP3 players. There are countless download clients out there, both legitimate and not, and mastery of one may or may not be useful after purchasing a new player. In other words, the level of standardization in the PC market and among other MP3 players is remarkably dwarfed in comparison to what we see with the iPod.
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Thanks for reading!
 
I understand that many "normal" PC users may care less about the aesthetics PCs, but I would have to say that you couldn't be more off as to implying that only "macinphile" are interested in the aesthetics of their PCs. I for one am greatly interested in the design of each case I purchase when I build my PCs. I generally will spend more on the case just so that I actually like the design of it and the looks of it over other usable cases on the market.

I grew up as a Mac user and in those days the Mac OS owned Windows when it came to ease of use. However since those days I personally much prefer Windows XP (not sure yet about Vista) over OS X for desktop use and definitely much prefer a Linux flavor over OS X for server use. I have worked with many Macs at a previous job and frankly didn't see anything extra special about them. They do indeed have their niche markets where they rule and if I worked in those markets I would definitely get a Mac, but for everyday use I prefer Windows. My only issue with as you put it "macinphiles" is their over zealous and sometimes over bearing attitude towards Windows users.

As for the iPod arguments I think they are one of the best designs out there and there are only a few extremely minor reasons I would even think about another mp3 player over the iPod. However, I do find it somewhat amusing that one of the points you make about the iPods consistency also allows Apple to have a monopolistic hold on the iPod/iTunes relationship.

____________
my $.02 worth
 
The only "lossless" format is a wave file. Anything other than that isn't lossless but has been compress in some shape or form. They have created their own format that is supposed to be better than the traditional mp3 and unless you are using a very high bitrate for mp3 compression the Apple codec is indeed better.
 
bbenz3 said:
The only "lossless" format is a wave file. Anything other than that isn't lossless but has been compress in some shape or form. They have created their own format that is supposed to be better than the traditional mp3 and unless you are using a very high bitrate for mp3 compression the Apple codec is indeed better.
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My ears aren't that great anyway. Thanks for responding and sorry for misspeaking. :)
 
seanbear said:
My ears aren't that great anyway. Thanks for responding and sorry for misspeaking. :)
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NP and that is exactly why you can get away with these other formats. I for one have for years not been able to tell the difference. It wasn't until I played some mp3s in my car stereo that has two 12" subs in it that I really could tell anything was actually missing. The standard earbuds can't produce the lows and highs that are removed during mp3 compressions and therefore you can't really tell anyways.
 
bbenz3 said:
NP and that is exactly why you can get away with these other formats. I for one have for years not been able to tell the difference. It wasn't until I played some mp3s in my car stereo that has two 12" subs in it that I really could tell anything was actually missing. The standard earbuds can't produce the lows and highs that are removed during mp3 compressions and therefore you can't really tell anyways.
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Wouldn't matter. I'm a country fan. We only play in one chord. Actually I like listening to them backwards. Much less depressing that way. You get your wife, You get your farm back, you get your dog back....:D
 
As a long long time PC user, builder, specialist and and above all enthusiest I had always been against Apples with the belief they were inferior. Last year a friend of mine let me use his g4 Powerbook for a little while. The first week was brutal, I wanted to throw it out the window. However, once I got used to the interface and how to do things I fell in love. The OS is different, but not difficult. It did take a bit of re-adjusting how I accomplished simple tasks but it is my honest opinion that OSX is better than WinXP. Before this experience I worked for Intel and have since jumped ship and now work for Apple. I couldn't be happier with the quality of the products and the level at which they perform. For those of you that think a mac is so much more expensive I would have to say yes and no. Yes, there is a premium you will pay however, once you consider the software included (iLife) and closely look at the hardware and periferals it really isn't a huge markup. Last of all, there are so many free programs out there for a mac. The open source community is massive given its *nix backbone and macphile userbase.

/rant
 
bbenz3 said:
The only "lossless" format is a wave file. Anything other than that isn't lossless but has been compress in some shape or form. They have created their own format that is supposed to be better than the traditional mp3 and unless you are using a very high bitrate for mp3 compression the Apple codec is indeed better.
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Wrong. They support WAV, AIFF, and ALAC. All three are lossless formats.

-E
 
i hate to say this, but i thought that was probably the worst article i've ever read on the [H]. i really enjoy this site and i have a huge amount of respect for everyone involved with it, but that article went nowhere fast. sorry guys, thats just my take.

now i'll come clean here - i'm a hardcore mac hater. i want them to curl up and die. before people start bashing me, i have used macs many times and even did a little bit of mac troubleshooting in my old tech support job. with that in mind, i will try to be a little less bias here and say something intelligent - other than apple can suck me.

firstly, when comparing the PC and mac the reference made was "Ford and BMW". how does that figure? i mean, especially now with apple using intel cpus and even running windows. there's now virtually no performance difference as far as hardware is concerned. so you pay more for something that looks pretty (matter of opinion) and uses a different OS. last i checked, BMW has more on ford than looking a bit better...

maybe the mac OS X is easier to learn, but that depends on who is learning. XP isn't exactly hard to use. whats more, i find that a moot point - we're hardware/computer enthusiasts here. we don't care.

going back to the Ford and BMW, the mac lovers here are going to tell me that a mac is faster - how is that possible with identical cpu's? taking a G5 into consideration, show me benchmarks/comparisons. everything i've read and experienced shows the G5 considerably slower. more secure? read the news lately? plenty of holes have been found lately. also, i think you'd find security problems a bit slower with less than 5% of the computer world taking a wack at your o/s. oh but the o/s is more stable! really? i've seen plenty of mac OS X crashes. it is after all just a castrated unix with pretty graphics. most xp crashes are caused by poorly written drivers, 3rd party programs, etc. if macs got over 90% of the market, we'd see the same problem.

personally, i think going from windows to macs is trading one evil off for a worse evil. don't take me as a MS !!!!!!, i'm not too fond of MS either. however, if apple were the big ape here not only would we have a similar monopoly but we would then be forced to get all our hardware from apple as well. it would be total control.

the solution? why not something open sourced like linux? or how about multiple o/s companies programming to a set of specs like how intel and amd can both run the same software? ambitious? very. but think of going to the store and choosing from several if not over a dozen different operating systems that are fully compatible. you could pick one to suit your needs perfectly. nobody does all that yet.

anyways, back on topic - i felt that this article just didn't have much of a point. it didn't tell me anything i already didn't know. apple COULD become the next big thing in computers.but for an [H] consumer article, it didn't tell the consumer anything useful or anything they didn't already know. it seemed just like an afterthought...

i'll end my rant now, sorry if i seemed too harsh.
 
Jason_Wall said:
There are alternatives, of course, that allow consumers to not only download music to their iPod, but also upload music from them. As a former Apple employee, discussing those software options was a terminable offense.
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Gotta admit, I found it awfully funny when an Apple Store employee (think maybe even one of the Genius Bar folks) told my wife there was no way you could put music on an iPod without iTunes. They didn't believe her when she said "That's funny, my husband set his iPod and mine up without it..."

I've switched her to iTunes so she can buy tracks, but I still use WinAmp and the mlpod plugin on my 3G iPod.
 
Tweak Monkey said:
Yes, there is a premium you will pay however, once you consider the software included (iLife) and closely look at the hardware and periferals it really isn't a huge markup.
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This is one of the biggest problems I have against them as well. I could care less about the included software. Therefore it doesn't do me any good to "compare" a PC with that extra software added to a Mac that has it included.

For me as long as you keep your opinion as an opinion and don't try to force it on someone else then I don't have any problem with anyone. Personally when trying to help someone purchase a computer (in reality this applies to anything) I try to find out their basic needs and help them purchase the best option for them. I don't care if it is a Mac, Dell, HP ... as long as it meets their needs and isn't a waste of their money. Too often though I have seen at a local computer store that I used to frequent the sales people would try as hard as possible to steer users towards a Mac. Also part of the issue is that I would have to repurchase much of my software in order for it natively run under OS X.
 
I want to put in my 2 cents as well as early as possible before things take off.

I agree that it's unfair to say that only Mac users care about the look of their PC (yes I consider a Mac a PC, not sure if they agree) I care a great deal about the look and ease of use of my PC and take great pride in it.

I also agree with you about the iPod. I have tried a few other hard drive mP3 players in the past before I bought my iPod simply because they were less expensive. I found out why, they skipped whenever you moved the goofy things. I have had my 4th gen iPod for a long time now and still love it. I have been copnsidering getting a video iPod, but just can't see the point, I don't want to watch movies on my iPod.

Now, my thoughts. While reading the article I noticed a repeating theme of control. Apple/Jobs wants to control the hardware his OS goes on, what the OS can do, who writes programs for it.
"evident in Jobs’ insistence on controlling both the development of the OS, the applications, and most importantly, production of the hardware platform."
This doesn't scare anyone? Moking tone: You can use our OS, but only on our hardware and with our other applications, diversity is not recommended or supported.

Now all jabs aside, I had high hopes for Mac and I really hoped that they would grab a large enough market share to become a threat to Microsoft and force them to be more user friendly and graphically pleasing. Competition never hurt anyone. But I don't like what Mac has become, for that matter I don't like what Microsoft is, and I'm finding it harder and harder to tell the difference between the two.

Now the comment about users. Mac users and Windows users have never really gotten along, on the whole, I know that some users do get along. I don't usderstand why we don't though. We are both looking for a pleasant experience with our PC and have just picked the OS that appeals to us. I have my reasons for not liking Mac, but the are my own and I'm not trying to force them on others. I don't know why other people try.

To HardOCP: I don't like what I'm seeing here. This is a hardware/Software reviwing website, not a battlegroud for the virtues of Mac over PC or vice versa. I don't want to see anymore "Mac is so great, Windows sucks" articles that don't say anything at all. And I don't want to see "Why I hate Mac" articles either. Apple, and Macs in general, needs to be treated as exactly what it is, a Pre-Built Company that packages an OS with their PC's. You should review Apple in that capacity and let people decide for themselves.

While trying to figure out a way to end this post it occured to me that people come here to see what you guys have to say, and that the subjects you can cover has expanded a great deal since I started using this site. You have expanded what you write about from basic factual reviews of the latest PC hardware to now include news about drivers for Vista to your opinion in Operating Systems. So I guess rants about Mac or Windows are not that far a step from where we are now, but they are a long step from where this site started.
 
"...they have been able to secure what looks to be a long future as the dominant player in the personal media and “digital lifestyle” market."

Going to have to disagree with you here.
I know, if microsoft got their act together and made a much better product, it would steal market share very quickly. Watch, you'll see (not talking about Zune).
 
seanbear said:
Wouldn't matter. I'm a country fan. We only play in one chord. Actually I like listening to them backwards. Much less depressing that way. You get your wife, You get your farm back, you get your dog back....:D
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I too love my country, but I have to say having a pair of 12s in my truck really helps me enjoy some good ole Big and Rich.
 
I care about PC asthetics, but the Macintosh has never been asthetically pleasing to me for the most part. The G5 tower was the first attractive Macintosh since that 10th anniversary Mac they made in the 1990's.

I've worked on both platforms for years and I've learned a few things about the Macintosh that most people (Mac zealots) don't want to hear. They lock up about as often as a Windows XP machine, if not more so. They have the same exact hardware failures that PCs do right down to the shitty capacitors. They've got unique OS quirks just like Microsoft OSes do. for oen thing when a PC application crashes or stops responding I can usually kill it without restarting the machine. More often than not when an app on a Mac crashes the whole damn thing hard locks and I need to pull the power cord out and re-insert it to get going again.

What I don't care for is the interface. That's of course subjective, but the Fisher Price My first Computer look doesn't do it for me. I also dislike the lack of control I have over certain aspects of the operating system. These days if you are a serious Unix/Linux/BSD kind of person you can do extra things that ordinary Mac users can't do. Sadly, I am not one of those higher level 'nix/BSD guys. If I were I'd be making alot more money than I am now.

The Macintosh for all it's supposed brilliance leaves much to be desired internally. The internal arrangement is a joke and upgrading them is unpleasant to say the least. Servicing one is even worse. (Both of which I've done a ton of.) Sure there are some PC's that suck to work on but few of them compare to the cluster that is the Macintosh innards. Designing a computer that is more form than function has no appeal to me.

Apple as a company is another thing I despise. Ever had to get warranty work done on one? Ever been a technician who had to deal with getting parts for Apple computers from Apple under warranty? If not I'd hope that you never do. The process is sometimes tolerable, but many times they are the worst computer vendor to deal with. They change their minds about proceedure for this and that nearly daily and they have this air of superiority that makes me want to punch a grandmother. This statement applies to many of the Apple users too.

This is not to say that Apple is all bad. Indeed from a hardware perspective their machines are better than most of what HP and Dell have to offer quality wise. Apple does often make other good products and peripherals too. I love the iPod. (I actually own one too.) and their monitors are fantastic, as are some elements of the OS despite my general complaints about it. The OS has an approach to design (internally) that I do appeciate. The lock it all down and unlock things as needed approach to OS security that Unix and BSD have had forever is indeed the right way to go. Microsoft finally learned this with Windows 2003 and Windows XP SP2, and it's about time.

Really when it comes down to it, Apple is less revolutionary than they claim to be. They were not first with USB and indeed the superior processors they once touted as being twice as fast as Intel chips have been in fact replaced by Intel CPUs. In the end I think that Apple is just stubborn and not revolutionary as they claim to be.
 
bbenz3 said:
The only "lossless" format is a wave file. Anything other than that isn't lossless but has been compress in some shape or form. They have created their own format that is supposed to be better than the traditional mp3 and unless you are using a very high bitrate for mp3 compression the Apple codec is indeed better.
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Are you talking about on the iPod or in general? If it's the former, I thought there was an Apple Lossless format. If you're saying in general, that's definitely incorrect.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4: FLAC, APE, SHN and MKW (there may be a monkey format too). I've only used Flac, SHN and MKW, but in all cases the decompressed file is identical to the one that was used to create the compressed file.

Virtually all who trade live concerts use one of these formats, even when trading on CD, because you avoid the perils of DAE.
 
My friends and I get into arguments all the time about Macs. One side has arguments about their superiority, while the side that I'm on seeks to pound Apple into the ground. I have never found an iMac to be friendly to me:

To prove my point:

Mac Troubles:

- Grade 4 science project lost due to lockup.
- Grade 8 project lost due to Appleworks lockup.
- Managed to lockup three different Macs at the Apple Store Eaton's Centre in Toronto

It's also like the design is not professional enough for me. I'm fine with Ipods, but the Macs get to me. It's just how Apple seeks to destroy PCs that gets me pissed.

Down with Mac Zealots!

Here's a funny comic for those of you who dislike Macs.http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513
 
I get so tired of people trying to claim Macs and PCs cost the same. If there's enough who force me too do it, I'll go out and build a Dell or HP for the umpteenth time and compare it what the Macs. I haven't done it with Laptops lately, but I did it with a desktop unit in the past month, and the only time the Mac price was close to Dell was in the $1000.00 range. Dell was cheaper, but it was fairly close. Once you left the basic model, Dells were as much as 300 or 400 less (and the graphics cards were roughly equivalent on the cheapest model and significantly better on the PC side as prices rose).

I personally am not a mac fan. Perhaps if I was doing desktop publishing I'd feel differently.

I do think they often look better than typical PCs, but I just can't justify the price when so many apps I want to run (and virtually all games) won't run on the Mac. Oh sure, I could dual boot, but the user to buy a 2nd OS, which only widens the delta.

As for iLife, if that's what raises the price, then make iLife optional. That said, once you move beyond the most basic mac desktop you can easilly buy a Photoshop Elements Bundle and whatever else you need to make up the difference and still have money left over.

If Apple sold their OS for the PC, I'd give it a whirl, but I'm not going to pay a premium for hardware just to try an OS.
 
What was the point of this article? It seemed more like a "why a few people like macs" as opposed to any sort of semi-comprehensive compare/contrast.
 
Not only does the iPod hold 72% of the MP3 market share, but apparently it also controls 72% of the authors ability to write an article on other subjects.

I was going along, reading a pleasant enough article regarding Steve Jobs and the current scandal regarding the back-dating of options without proper disclosure, and then suddenly I am drenched with the suspicious juices of an iPod love-fest. WTF?

My advice. Find a topic and stick too it. If you wanted to mention the iPod market share, spend a paragraph on iPods, but also focus on STEVE's influence on the iPod, not on a gazzillion paragraphs of random and freaky iPod love making.
 
I have been using an HP Media Center to edit video at my work for the last two years. It is always a struggle whether I am using Premiere Elements or Windows Movie Maker. I finally gave up and bought an IMac with Final Cut Express this week. I have had a flawless experience. Not only does the output look much more professional with less work but it has not crashed once. I even got FCE for 99.99 with the deal they are running now. Objectively speaking I have to admit that I have done stuff on this Mac in the last week that I KNOW would crash a PC. Even one with a fresh load of XP on it.
 
Dan_D said:
Sadly, I am not one of those higher level 'nix/BSD guys. If I were I'd be making alot more money than I am now.
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Screw that! You have my dream job. Just look in your at your signature! If I had tons of money, the only thing I'd buy are the best computer parts to elongate my e-penis. Mmmm...4x 30" Dell widescreen LCD's on 2x eVGA 8800GTX AC3's...
 
Laminator said:
Screw that! You have my dream job. Just look in your at your signature! If I had tons of money, the only thing I'd buy are the best computer parts to elongate my e-penis. Mmmm...4x 30" Dell widescreen LCD's on 2x eVGA 8800GTX AC3's...
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This hardware doesn't come from working for the [H]. I work a day job and have a girlfriend who is well off. That's where all my hardware comes from. Yes, I've received a freebie from the [H] before, but the bulk of my hardware is purchased by me.

My day job isn't all that great.
 
Wow, that article wasn't bias at all. :rolleyes:

Stop covering up for Apple's short comings, the damn reason they only have 5% of the computer market is because they are morons! Open it up so it can easily be installed on PC's, and sell it stand alone at a competitive price with Windows, thats the only way they are going to get out of the hole they are in.

I sure as hell am not going to spend a bunch more for Apple hardware just to run their OS. And all of you fan boys claiming Apple doesn't over charge for their hardware, open your eyes, they sure as hell do, not to mention their "starter" market is the midrange-high end PC market price.
 
Maybe if Mac software would work on the same computers as Microsoft software does, their market share would go above a measly 5%. They would be able to take up market share from underneath Microsoft.

Everyone out there would be able to use Apple's software with their current hardware. But as it is, they would completely have to pick up and move to a new system and start from scratch, and what Joe Average guy would want to do that?
 
nilepez said:
I get so tired of people trying to claim Macs and PCs cost the same. If there's enough who force me too do it, I'll go out and build a Dell or HP for the umpteenth time and compare it what the Macs. I haven't done it with Laptops lately, but I did it with a desktop unit in the past month, and the only time the Mac price was close to Dell was in the $1000.00 range. Dell was cheaper, but it was fairly close. Once you left the basic model, Dells were as much as 300 or 400 less (and the graphics cards were roughly equivalent on the cheapest model and significantly better on the PC side as prices rose).
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Well, sure - you can find a Dell or an HP that is cheaper than a comparable Mac, but are the 'fit-and-finish' comparable? I am a network admin for a school district with over 18K computers - desktops and laptops - all of which are HP/Compaq running XP. We get great deals on the computers, but NONE of them compare to the Macs that I have at home when comparing the quality of the hardware. Oh - I just configured a Mac Pro and an HP Workstation xw6400 with IDENTICAL specs, except for the OS and the HP had a 128 MB Quadro video card...and the HP was almost $1,000 more.

nilepez said:
I personally am not a mac fan. Perhaps if I was doing desktop publishing I'd feel differently.
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Well, at least you're honest about your bias. As for Macs only being appropriate in DP, I definitely have to take issue w/ that. I can manage all of our district's 18K+ WinXP computers and 121 Win2K3 servers with my Mac. I can connect to the district VPN w/ my Mac and do everything from home that I can from the office. Macs are great for more than just DP.

nilepez said:
I do think they often look better than typical PCs, but I just can't justify the price when so many apps I want to run (and virtually all games) won't run on the Mac. Oh sure, I could dual boot, but the user to buy a 2nd OS, which only widens the delta.
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I agree w/ you about the looks - both in terms of the Mac's superiority and the ultimate irrelevancy of those looks when considering performance. That said, people DO use looks as a basis for their likes and dislikes - if you had two foods, both identical in taste and nutrients, and one looked like a pile of crap (literally) and the other looked like filet mignon, which would you pick? Looks DO matter to many.

As for your statement about 'widening the delta', please reference the price difference between the Mac Pro and the HP Workstation. I sure could add a LOT of stuff to my Mac Pro for that $1K savings between the two...I'm sure I could spend some $$ on a MS OS and not worry about it.

nilepez said:
As for iLife, if that's what raises the price, then make iLife optional. That said, once you move beyond the most basic mac desktop you can easilly buy a Photoshop Elements Bundle and whatever else you need to make up the difference and still have money left over.
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Have you ever used iLife? There is a reason that tech editors and pundits alike - both PC and Mac - have picked the iLife suite as a 'best of breed' in its price class. If you're trying to compare a Mac mini to whatever low-end crap that Dell or HP is selling and using that to quantify the price difference, you're doing yourself a disservice. There is a qualitative difference between a low-end Mac and a low-end PC that saving a few bucks could never erase.

nilepez said:
If Apple sold their OS for the PC, I'd give it a whirl, but I'm not going to pay a premium for hardware just to try an OS.
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I've looked at Dell and HP - and, when comparing hardware as similar as possible, the PC side of things generally comes out to at most $100 less than then Mac. Sometimes the Mac is less. So, I guess if you don't want to spend that extra $100 to get the only computer that can run Windows, Linux, AND Mac OS X, well that's your call. I looked at the TCO and found that the Mac was a much wiser purchase.
 
What the heck is this article? I was trying to find "Page 2" and finally realized there wasn't one.

This has to be the most pointless thing I have ever read ever.
 
Dan_D said:
This hardware doesn't come from working for the [H]. I work a day job and have a girlfriend who is well off. That's where all my hardware comes from. Yes, I've received a freebie from the [H] before, but the bulk of my hardware is purchased by me.

My day job isn't all that great.
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You're still a right bastard for owning hardware I cant afford. I'm insanely jealous. :D
 
Okay, so some of you didn't find much value in the article - thanks for the feedback.

Bear in mind, if you would, that this was not supposed to be the end-all, be-all about Apple. This was just a thin slice of what they do as a business.

There are a few of you that commented that as a PC user, you care a lot about aesthetic. As a PC user and a writer for [H], so do I! The general look of a PC is a significant part of our evaluations. What Scott was saying wasn't that you have no sense of aesthetic if you own a PC, but rather that if you bought a Mac, a major reason was because of how they look. Of course, as has been mentioned, the Mac look is not for everyone. We're not saying that it should be. We're just saying that a Mac user/fan will chalk up the looks of Apple products as a major advantage.

This article was about the success of the iPod within the Apple business model, not the success of Apple in the computer market. Scott made, what I believe to be, some very interesting arguments on why the iPod has absolutely dominated the MP3 player market. Yes, there are new products coming out; yes, there may be BETTER products out there; yes, you may not agree with his arguments. We tried to provide some of our insight into why the situation exists as it does - I'm sorry if you didn't agree or you wanted more.

As was implied in the tagline, Apple uses the same design philosophy across ALL of its products. It is nearly insignificant in the computer market, but is vastly successful in the personal media player market. This was a quick opinion-based piece about why we believe that is.

So, I'm sorry if we disappointed some of you in your expectations of the article, but hopefully you can see what we were trying to do.

Again, thanks for reading.
 
Hi there; as a disclaimer, I'm not looking for a flame war but would like to comment on some of your thoughts.

Crow T. Robot said:
Well, sure - you can find a Dell or an HP that is cheaper than a comparable Mac, but are the 'fit-and-finish' comparable? I am a network admin for a school district with over 18K computers - desktops and laptops - all of which are HP/Compaq running XP. We get great deals on the computers, but NONE of them compare to the Macs that I have at home when comparing the quality of the hardware. Oh - I just configured a Mac Pro and an HP Workstation xw6400 with IDENTICAL specs, except for the OS and the HP had a 128 MB Quadro video card...and the HP was almost $1,000 more.
......
As for your statement about 'widening the delta', please reference the price difference between the Mac Pro and the HP Workstation. I sure could add a LOT of stuff to my Mac Pro for that $1K savings between the two...I'm sure I could spend some $$ on a MS OS and not worry about it.
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The Mac Pro is not really what normal people think of when they think of "Mac". I'm sure plenty of workstations are sold by all companies, but I'm also sure that more conventional desktops are sold as well. And why not build your own workstation?

I agree w/ you about the looks - both in terms of the Mac's superiority and the ultimate irrelevancy of those looks when considering performance. That said, people DO use looks as a basis for their likes and dislikes - if you had two foods, both identical in taste and nutrients, and one looked like a pile of crap (literally) and the other looked like filet mignon, which would you pick? Looks DO matter to many.
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Looks do matter to many, but most enthusiasts and home users would rather have more performance/features than looks for the same/less price. Also, PC's aren't the beige boxes Apple users used to rag on all the time. Hell, the brushed-metal-on-black look that Dell sticks on even their crappiest monitors, desktops, and laptops looks pretty damn spiffy - more professional than the fruity-toy look of most Macintosh computers. And that look comes at a sacrifice: a higher price, excessive heat output, shoddy parts, and lack of versatility. This doesn't apply to the Mac Pro, which is basically a big PC running OS X, but the Mac Pro isn't exactly suited to your average home user.

I've looked at Dell and HP - and, when comparing hardware as similar as possible, the PC side of things generally comes out to at most $100 less than then Mac. Sometimes the Mac is less. So, I guess if you don't want to spend that extra $100 to get the only computer that can run Windows, Linux, AND Mac OS X, well that's your call. I looked at the TCO and found that the Mac was a much wiser purchase.
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Nah. Check this out: here's the basic $1,000 iMac compared to a $1,000 Dell (straight from the main site with no coupons, etc.):

Apple iMac: ($999)
17-inch Widescreen LCD
1.83GHz Core 2 Duo CPU
2x 256MB DDR2-667 RAM
160GB SATA HDD
Intel GMA 950
24x CD-RW/DVD-ROM

Dell Dimension: ($979)
17-inch Regular LCD
1.83GHz Core 2 Duo CPU (E6300)
2x 512MB DDR2-533 RAM, Dual Channel
250GB SATA HDD
ATI Radeon X1300 Pro 256MB
16x DVD+/-RW

Which one would you take?

Here's another one, this time at $1,999 for the Apple and $1,649 for the Dell:

Apple iMac: ($1,999)
20-inch Widescreen LCD
2.33GHz Core 2 Duo CPU (Merom, I bet)
2x 1GB DDR2-667 RAM
250GB SATA HDD
ATI Radeon X1600 256MB (Mobility?)
8x DVD+/-RW
Apple USB Modem
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
I'm sure it comes with IEEE 1394, too...

Dell XPS 410: ($1,649)
20-inch Digital Widescreen LCD (add $130 for the "Ultrasharp")
2.4GHz Core 2 Duo CPU (E6600!)
2x 1GB DDR2-667 RAM, Dual Channel
250GB SATA HDD
nVidia GeForce 7900GS 256MB
16x DVD+/-RW
56K Modem
NetGear 802.11g Wireless Card
IEEE 1394
Floppy Drive
13 in 1 Media Card Reader

Not exactly a difficult decision, huh? Price some more configurations at the mid-range and you'll keep coming up with this.

Don't get me wrong; I like Apple products, too. I'm absolutely against the idea that their hardware is better, however. Remember that it's all made by the same manufacturers - Intel, ASUS, Kingston, Foxconn, etc. And the form factor does have a negative impact on versatility and performance.
 
Jason_Wall said:
Okay, so some of you didn't find much value in the article - thanks for the feedback.

Bear in mind, if you would, that this was not supposed to be the end-all, be-all about Apple. This was just a thin slice of what they do as a business.

There are a few of you that commented that as a PC user, you care a lot about aesthetic. As a PC user and a writer for [H], so do I! The general look of a PC is a significant part of our evaluations. What Scott was saying wasn't that you have no sense of aesthetic if you own a PC, but rather that if you bought a Mac, a major reason was because of how they look. Of course, as has been mentioned, the Mac look is not for everyone. We're not saying that it should be. We're just saying that a Mac user/fan will chalk up the looks of Apple products as a major advantage.

This article was about the success of the iPod within the Apple business model, not the success of Apple in the computer market. Scott made, what I believe to be, some very interesting arguments on why the iPod has absolutely dominated the MP3 player market. Yes, there are new products coming out; yes, there may be BETTER products out there; yes, you may not agree with his arguments. We tried to provide some of our insight into why the situation exists as it does - I'm sorry if you didn't agree or you wanted more.

As was implied in the tagline, Apple uses the same design philosophy across ALL of its products. It is nearly insignificant in the computer market, but is vastly successful in the personal media player market. This was a quick opinion-based piece about why we believe that is.

So, I'm sorry if we disappointed some of you in your expectations of the article, but hopefully you can see what we were trying to do.

Again, thanks for reading.
Click to expand...


Sometimes, Jason, you just can't please anyone. I thought it made for an interesting read. Even more interesting, were the discussions it sparked. ;)

Its been said that we are our own worse critics. Don't judge your success based on individual responses. Sometimes, a single idea has worth because of the ideas that succeed it.
 
User base and market share tell best about a product's worthiness.
Thats all I have to say.
 
Laminator said:
Remember that it's all made by the same manufacturers - Intel, ASUS, Kingston, Foxconn, etc. And the form factor does have a negative impact on versatility and performance.
Click to expand...

qft

However, there is just something about Apple, from a COMPANY standpoint, that puts me off. I had an old Mac from ~ 1990, and i thought its OS was similar to early Windows, to say the least. I had virtually no problems on that computer. It ran Word, some primitive games, thats pretty much it. Its not that Ive never bought one since then, I am just put off by their image, their designs, the way they market their crap - just about everything!
I mean take a look at this crap
mac-pc-tv-ads.jpg

The PC is a tubby nerd, and the Mac is a standard guy. They should at least make the PC a normal guy and the Mac a woman. That would paint a more realistic picture. The thing thay they are forgetting in these ads is that Macs ARE PCs!

I give them credit for the ipod. Not that I am wacko-for-iPods, but they paved a very large road in the MP3 market, and looking around my campus everyday, they are not going anywyere. I have had 3 of them myself (all destroyed now, yeah they get a lot of use but still) and I think it is time for someone to crack their "monopoly."

Apple has had their way in that market long enough, they CAN and SHOULD be beaten out by a more competiive product line. Who is there to do this? No one.

The HUGE majority of accessories for MP3 players are for the iPod. Meaning you either buy iPod with iPod equipment, or you buy Zune/Zen/Walkman/Sandisk and pay more for the direct-bought/rare accessories. Also, how can you rip of the scroll wheel? You cant. So I guess you have to bite the bullet, deal with iTunes on windows, deal with their compression crap, the high price. On a side note, I have actually gotten used to iTunes on windows, and I use it as my primary music player. (yeah, im crazy)

One last rant, they need to start including better earbuds/headphones with their stuff. Not just Apple, but all of them, its just that Apple seems to charge slightly more. As someone mentioned, the earbuds cannot produce complex high/low frequencies (hell, even the mids!), and they sound far too trebly and flat for my ears. Id be willing to pay more for better earbuds or sumthin, rather than just the Apple name. I guess thats why I have a Zen right now.
 
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