The best low-profile PCIe x16 video card?

rimz said:
was there a database crash? ...i know we had more updates than this on the 8600gt low profile...
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It wouldn't surprise me. Whole threads have disappeared recently.

and are those MSI cards low-profile Ajax? i didn't see it mentioned anywhere on their site...would be sweet if MSI picked up the low-pro though...better chance of getting one in the States...
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As far as I can tell the NX7300GS-MD256EH (manual), NX7600GS-MTD256E (manual), NX8500GT-MTD256EH/D2 (manual), and NX8600GT-MTD256E (manual) have near-identical PCBs (same length and height, and very very similar component layout). So it is quite odd that only the manual of the 7300GS specifically mentions an optional low profile bracket (Newegg pic).

One Newegg reviewer for the 8500GT notes that you can get a LP bracket for it even though it isn't mentioned in the product documentation.

The only way to be sure is to ask MSI if the NX7300GS-MD256EH LP bracket fits the NX8600GT-MTD256E ...
 
I went ahead and bought the MSI 8500GT MTD256EH Video Card from Newegg for my Dell Dimension C521. The video card I was using was a 256 128bit ATI Radeon x1300 pro directly from Dell when I bought the computer. I then had to call MSI tech support and order the low profile bracket. The sent it right out and charged me $8.00 for it.

Here is a break down on the Windows Vista Score for ATI X1300 pro card that use to be installed:

Gaming Graphics 4.2
Windows Areo Graphics 4.4


Here is a break down on the Windows Visat Score for the 8500GT that is now installed.

Gaming Graphics 5.2
Windows Areo Graphics 5.1

The MSI Card has a pretty big heat sink and if you look at this http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1023/8500gt1zk4.jpg picture of the video card you will notice (three) slightly raised fins exactly where "MSI" is written. Just as I expected one of those three "raised" fins hit the Chipset heat sink on the Dell C521 motherboard and would not allow the video card to fit all the way down. I then took the heat sink off the video card and using a small pair of pliers I bent the lowest "raised: fin back and forth and neatly broke off the "rasied" tip area of that fin. I then put the heat sink back on the video card and tried once again to install it. This time the video card slid perfectly into place just missing the chipset heat sink.

Here is a good picture of how close of a fit it is. http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2841/521yw0.jpg


So far I am very happy with the video card, from the Windows Vista scores alone it shows a nice improvement over the 256MB 128Bit ATI x1300Pro I use to have.

Rakaz
 
Nice to hear that it worked out.

BTW did MSI give a reason why they don't advertise the fact that the other three cards can use the LP bracket?
 
good lord that's a huge heatsink for a low-pro card...and i thought mine was big on my radeon x700 card...
 
Ajax9000 said:
Nice to hear that it worked out.

BTW did MSI give a reason why they don't advertise the fact that the other three cards can use the LP bracket?
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my guess after reading up a bunch on this stuff is that the power requirements for the 7600GT and 8500GT for instance may be too high for the typical low profile/half height pci-e application.

Most cases like this have a small PSU, and that PSU can only handle in many cases a 30-40 watt video card limit. The 7600GT for instance requires quite a bit more power than that, and so it wouldn't really fit the bill for a low profile/half height card in a system like the HP slimlines because the Small Form Factor PSU couldn't handle it.
 
Archaea said:
my guess after reading up a bunch on this stuff is that the power requirements for the 7600GT and 8500GT for instance may be too high for the typical low profile/half height pci-e application.

Most cases like this have a small PSU, and that PSU can only handle in many cases a 30-40 watt video card limit. The 7600GT for instance requires quite a bit more power than that, and so it wouldn't really fit the bill for a low profile/half height card in a system like the HP slimlines because the Small Form Factor PSU couldn't handle it.
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You're misinformed: see here
The 7600GT only consumes 36W
The 8500GT consumes a bit more 40W
Interestingly enough, the 8600GT consumes 30W

I recently purchased a HP slimline. I had the option to purchase a 8400GS when I ordered it. Since the 8400GS is rated at 38W, it could handle a 7600 or 8600 (once they're out) just fine. In fact, you can use any low profile PCIe x16 video card with the HP slimlines. I mean, all the cards that consume more than 40W are not offered in a slimline version.
 
I've been doing a lot of research and just because a card is low profile does NOT mean it has lower power requirements.

Sometimes they simply make them low profile so they will fit in a case.

I read the other day that the 7600GT requires about 70 watts of power. Where did you get your numbers?
 
Archaea said:
I've been doing a lot of research and just because a card is low profile does NOT mean it has lower power requirements.

Sometimes they simply make them low profile so they will fit in a case.

I read the other day that the 7600GT requires about 70 watts of power. Where did you get your numbers?
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It's true that low profile refers to a card's physical characteristics, but I have yet to see a low profile card that consumes over 40 watts.

Information on 7600GT power consumption was found here.

As mentioned above, you can find info on power consumption for nearly all graphics cards here.
 
I sent an e-mail to new egg asking them to begin to carry the MSI 8600GT low profile/half height card
 
Ajax9000 said:
Good to hear. But they aren't clear about HDCP support, so if that is important to you get them to clarify.
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That is a very good point, thanks for the reminder. I don't even know if it has HDMI. I know the MSI does. Too bad they're not carrying the MSI one. Apparently it's available in UK.
 
I'm not sure. If there isn't HDMI (which I think is most likely the case), then the XFX kit will work. However, if there is HDMI, then I it won't work. For example, the MSI 8600gt low profile has HDMI and it would not work with the XFX kit. I'm hoping NCIXUS will carry the MSI card. BTW, Newegg is has the XFX kit in stock now, if you want to buy it.
 
I just noticed they dropped the price like crazy on the 8500GT.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...c=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-MSI-_-14127301R

I'm starting to think about this card; it's priced the same as the XFX 8400GS minus the rebate, and performs almost 2x as good.

That has hdmi, but *could* the xfx kits still work? Reason I ask is that I wouldn't even use the hdmi, just the dvi, so could the bracket just block off the hdmi letting the bracket fit?
 
If you're not using HDMI, yes, it'll work. Actually, I recently purchased the MSI 7600GS (it has the exact same connections) which didn't come with a LP bracket, but I contacted MSI and they're sending me one for $8 S&H. So, you can get one from MSI easily. Also, about that link, be aware that it is Open Box, so no accessories. That is, if you're counting on getting that DVI to VGA adapter, it's not going to be included.

BTW, the 7600GS is pretty good. I can play UT3 and 1080p just fine. It can overclock 10% with a utility they offer and is really stable. I get almost 4000 on 3dMark2005, which isn't great, but it's not bad. Vista Graphics: 4.8 Gaming: 4.7. They're that low because the card doesn't have DX10.
 
Ahh alrite, reason I asked is because I'm on a $75 budget, and the 8500gt brand new is $77.

The open box 8500gt is the same price as a xfx 8400gs (8400gs is cheaper with rebate but I hate dealing with rebates) and should perform better. I found a test with the 8400gs at 1024x768 on high settings with CNC3 (which is one of the main games I play) and the lowest fps it dropped to was 12. Since I play at 1280x1024, and I've seen some reviews say that the 8500gt's 128-bit controller handles higher resolutions well, that's why I've chosen to go with it.

I've found this bracket for just 4 bucks, 3 bucks cheaper then the xfx kit and is only one bracket, which is all I need anyway. So that bracket will fit like a regular one, it'll just block off the hdmi? I'm hoping that's what I can do, that way I can just order everything from newegg and have it arrive at the same time.

The 7600GS and 8600GT are really good cards for low-profile systems. I had wanted to get either 1 of them but as I said before earlier, those are definitely out of my budget.
 
The 8500GT should be great for you. Definitely much better than the 8400. It has Nvidia's Pure Video 2.0 which does wonders for HD video. It also ought to work fine for some gaming. However, you should just order the low profile bracket directly from MSI. It's the same price as the one you mentioned ($8) and will have a section for HDMI.

Also, be aware that the heatsink on the 8500GT is really large. If you have a PCI slot next to it that is occupied be prepared to sacrifice the PCI card as it will not fit.
 
Yeah, the dell I got came with a 56k modem so removing that shouldn't be a problem.

Do I just call up MSI's tech support and ask them for a low profile bracket? I tried sending an online request, but they needed a serial number and a ton of other useless info. I'm guessing it's by credit card?
 
Yeah, I know. The tech support form has you fill in way too much information. I just filled it all in as best as possible and was told to write an email to the following address: AlexanderK [at] msicomputer.com

He also gave me a phone number to reach him at: (626) 913-0828 ext.144

Just tell him the model number and he'll send it out. You can pay by credit card.
 
Damn... looks like newegg just deactivated the open box 8500gt and all they have left is the retail $77 one.

They've lowered the price of the open-box 7600gs to $80 though...
 
If you do wind up getting the 7600GS or an other open box MSI card, make sure you install the MSI ForceWare drivers. If you install the drivers from the nvidia website, the performance of your card goes down quite a bit. Too bad about the 8500GT though!
 
Just a question, is the 7300GS=8400GS? Or is 1 of the other even slightly better? Obviously not for the newest games, but a year ago and older...

I ask because one is dx9 based and the other is dx10 based, I'd think 1 would be better for older games but I'm not sure. They're also the same price.

Another thing, omjeremy, just for clarification on the xfx bracket kits and dvi+hdmi cards like the 8500gt/7600gs; when you said 'it would work' does that mean as in the bracket could fit tightly and the s-video hole would cover the hdmi slot halfway or something? Just like the MSI bracket they send would? After looking at the cards it looks like that's what it could do. I've never dealt with removing brackets or anything low-profile, so I'm unsure how/if that could work. I'd rather just add on the $4 bracket from newegg to my order then call up and hassle MSI for a $8 bracket and wait for it to come when if I ordered all from newegg, it'd all be there in 2 days.
 
omjeremy said:
If you do wind up getting the 7600GS or an other open box MSI card, make sure you install the MSI ForceWare drivers. If you install the drivers from the nvidia website, the performance of your card goes down quite a bit. Too bad about the 8500GT though!
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Do you have any proof of these. In my experience MSI just uses regular forcewares.
 
@HotGore
I first installed the card without forceware. Checked the vista score. Then I installed the latest nvidia forceware and updated the vista score. It was lowered by .5. I uninstalled the forceware and installed the one from the MSI site and my score went back up.

Also, MSI gives a nice little utility to overclock the card. I'm able to overclock it to 525/926 from 400/800 (that's a 30% OC) without any problems whatsoever. And that's with a 180W PSU. I like this card... Playing UT3 maxed out at 1280x1024 beautifully; also I'm getting nearly 5000 3DMark05 points.

@ARgnasher
The XFX bracket will work because the HDMI port doesn't need any posts for screwing in a cable. The S-Video hole will just cover the HDMI port. Also, you didn't notice that the XFX bracket had shipping which brought the product to $8. Regardless, it's out of stock in Newegg.com now. It's easy to remove a bracket. You just need pliers to unscrew the posts for screws. Then, you just line up the new bracket and screw back in the posts.
 
Just an update: I received the MSI bracket in the mail today and it works perfectly.
 
An MSI 8500GT open-box just appeared this morning and I bought it. The new cards are out of stock (ETA for new shipments is stated as 11/5). Thanks for the info about getting the low-profile bracket shipped from MSI. I'll send them an email today. I'm worried that they may be pokey, though. Newegg offers a 15-day return policy for open-box items. If I don't get the bracket from MSI for a while, should I be able to remove the existing bracket altogether and just let the connections "dangle" out the back?

I'll let you all know how it goes. I have the HP s3020n and there's a modem card in my PCI slot which I expect to have to remove to give this 8500GT enough breathing room.

If power is a concern, I may not even be opposed to removing the DVD drive as I expect to use this in tandem with another computer to serve two rooms in my house as HTPC units and could use the other computer for DVD ripping. But if I don't need to remove the drive, I'd prefer to leave it there for times when I may need to play a physical DVD. Is there any way for me to know whether or not I'll need any extra power?

BTW, for those who may be using this with Vista Media Center, I'm planning on sticking my USB IR receiver inside the case where the pocket drive is meant to go. The pocket drive cage pops right out leaving plenty of room for this, and the front door is almost the exact same size as my IR receiver's clear plastic cover. The clear plastic cover is slightly larger, so I'm thinking of removing the flip-in door, removing the IR receiver's freont plastic piece and gluing it to the outside of the case. The IR receiver itself will need to be secured somewhat inside the case. The pocket drive cage had a USB connector right there, too, so if I can manage to wrap up my IR receiver's USB cable tight enough and find an adaptor (the cage's USB connector is the type typically used for connecting to printers), I should even be able to keep it all inside. I'm no engineer, but this all looks doable with my limited skills. Ideally, I'd probably cut my IR receiver's USB cable short but I'm not sure if I have enough faith in myself to then rewire it properly and not "brick" it.
 
I let the card dangle in the back for a few days, then I got worried so I laid the box down horizontally so that the card wouldn't lean to a side. It took about a week to get the bracket. I live in NJ, and MSI is in CA. You may get it faster depending on where you life.

I don't know what you mean by 'pokey' but, as I said above, the bracket works perfectly.

Yes, you will have to remove the modem. The heatsink on the 8500GT is really massive. That is one of the main reasons why I didn't get it. The Intel 3xxx series doesn't have built in wifi and I bought a PCI wifi card.

You'll know if you don't have enough power to run the card. Either the computer will show artifacts on the screen, freeze/lock up or it may not even start up. If that is the case, removing the DVD burner should free up enough wattage. I don't think you'll have a problem though. Regardless, please let us know if the card works!

If you do mod the case with the IR receiver, post pics!
 
I meant "pokey" in regards to how long it would take for MSI to ship the bracket out to me. I'm in the east coast as well (PA).

Once I move the computer back out of my office and into a viewing room (either bedroom or living room), I'm actually planning on laying the case flat, anyway, as it looks more like an A/V component that way. It also puts the DVD drive tray in the more natural position and, most importantly, I think it'll keep things cooler that way as the heat will naturally rise out of the holes on the top of the case.
 
Hi guys. I just bought a Dell Inspiron 530s which is a slimline computer that uses low profile cards.

I don't do a lot of gaming besides maybe the old school CS and Sims 2 games, other than that I don't play that much games. Right now, I have the Nvidia 8300GS which is crap.

I was wondering if this is a good card for just a little gaming.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3246361&body=QA#tabs

Or should I go for the 7600GS?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127237R&Tpk=MTD256E

I'm not very sure which card to go for, I just need something better than this crappy 8300GS.
 
I'd say the 8500GT would be better even than the 7600GS. Direct X 10 in limited fashion....You could drop the resolution to turn on the extra eye candy if you so desired. And the 8 series cards have much better shaders than the 7 series. Though in most games the 7600GS might be a hair faster.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=856&model2=717&chart=287

here is a link comparing the two cards on several games...choose the game from the drop-down.

Ultimately if we can get a low profile 8600GT - that's what you want.
 
Morphx2 said:
Would the MSI card work with the XFX low profile kit?
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I asked this myself, and one of the other members told me that yes, it would. It would work, if you have no need for hdmi; since it would block off the hdmi port.

As for the 8500GT vs 7600GS low-profile, on most benchmarks the 7600gs outperforms the 8500gt , but only by a little bit. They're both almost about equal, however if you plan on getting the 8500gt, get the 256mb version. It's cheaper, and as one of the other members pointed out to me, with its 128 bit memory interface it wouldn't make much use of the extra 256 mb.
 
lockinsocks said:
I don't do a lot of gaming besides maybe the old school CS and Sims 2 games, other than that I don't play that much games. Right now, I have the Nvidia 8300GS which is crap.
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Since you're not gaming, it's a tough choice. The 8500 trumps the 7600 in decoding HD streams, whereas the 7600 is better for games.

Or, you can get the 8600 here. It's a special order, so they'll order it for you if you want it. Shipping is ~$20 so it's about $145 when all's said and done. It's better than both of the cards.

Now, anyone see the 8800GT? Wouldn't it be great if they made a low-profile version! lol... You would definitely need a better PSU though!
 
It would be nice to have that 8600, but it's a bit out of my budget. Maybe I should go for the 8500GT 256mb version since I don't play a lot of games and as long as Sims 2 looks good, I'll be happy. For a game that has been out for years, it hogs up a lot of space and requires a lot of power.

Also, I have a question. Does it really matter how much memory the card has? Like 128mb, 256mb, 512mb?

As for the power supply, I read in Dell's forum that the stock power supply should have enough power to run the better video cards we put in.
 
omjeremy said:
Now, anyone see the 8800GT? Wouldn't it be great if they made a low-profile version! lol... You would definitely need a better PSU though!
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Yes it would :)

But has anyone ever made a 256-bit LP graphics card? I don't recall ever seeing one. Maybe there isn't enough space on the PCB?
 
Agreed... I haven't seen any either. Even the Galaxy 8600GT is 128-bit, although it is the only LP card that I've seen having DDR3 memory.

@lockinsocks, I don't know how powerful a PSU you have, but I think it ought to work if it's over 180W (which I have in my HP slimline). The 8500GT is one of the more power consuming LP cards out there, but I'm pretty sure Dell includes a powerful enough PSU.
 
I decided to take the plunge! I just ordered the 8600GT from NCIXUS. I'll let you know how it is when/if I receive it! It says it's on backorder, so we'll see...
 
omjeremy said:
I decided to take the plunge! I just ordered the 8600GT from NCIXUS. I'll let you know how it is when/if I receive it! It says it's on backorder, so we'll see...
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did they charge you now? Or when it ships?
 
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