The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD Debate

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ninethreeeleven

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Well with the recent news of Intel and Microsoft coming out and backing HD-DVD I think the debate has to start. For those not fimiliar with the basics I will list them.

Size:
Somewhere around 50GBs (dual layer) for Blu-Ray
Somewhere around 30GBs (dual layer) for HD-DVD

Media:
The Blu-Ray is not a cartridge, thought many sites say it is, it looks like a normal DVD.
HD-DVD looks like normal DVD

Backers:
Blu-Ray: Sony, Dell, HP, Apple Computer, Electronic Arts, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sun Microsystems, Twentieth Century Fox, Vivendi Universal, Walt Disney, TDK, Hitachi, LG, Pioneer, Royal Philips And the 20 million compaines that they own.

HD-DVD: Microsoft, Intel, HBO, NEC, New Line Cinema, Paramount Home Entertainment, Sanyo, Toshiba, Universal Studios Home Entertainment Canon, Fuji Photo, Maxell, Imation, Inter Video, Kenwood, Konica Minolta, Mitsubishi, Onkyo, Ricoh, Ritek, and Warner Home Video. And the 20 million compaines that they own.

Players: Samsung already said it will make a player that supports both types, so getting into that doesn't really matter.

Backwards Compatible: Both sides say that the technology used to read thier disks will be able to read current DVDs, so both should be Backwards Compatible.

Notes: Blu-Ray is called "BD-Roms" and HD-DVD is called, well, HD-DVD.

Also to note: The Sony PS3 will have Blu-Ray at launch, the XBOX360 will not have HD-DVD at launch.

I wan't to keep this top section clean and unbiased, as I think we will be talking about this alot more in the next coming months.
 
The mere fact that there'll be millions of Blu-ray players - AKA as PS3s - out there within a year should say something. I'd like to see HD-DVD sell that many players in the same timespan ^_-
 
blue ray requires a thinner film to protect it then the HD has. But TDK recently came up with a new film making blue ray's just as durable as HD. Blue Ray is faster, holds more information and will have the support of the PS3 for playing movies and games right away. Not to mention Blue Ray is also already being used in Japan. I don't think we will see the long term fight that Beta and VHS gave us.

Blue Ray is the superior product both in speed and size, and already has a following and backing with both software and hardware manufacturers.
 
CyByte said:
blue ray requires a thinner film to protect it then the HD has. But TDK recently came up with a new film making blue ray's just as durable as HD. Blue Ray is faster, holds more information and will have the support of the PS3 for playing movies and games right away. Not to mention Blue Ray is also already being used in Japan. I don't think we will see the long term fight that Beta and VHS gave us.

Blue Ray is the superior product both in speed and size, and already has a following and backing with both software and hardware manufacturers.
Click to expand...


hmm

this sounds familiar..

oh yes that is right

Betamax superior to VHS in every way.. yet it LOST. ;) This is not going to get ironed out as qucik as you think it will.
 
mashie said:
Remember it was the pr0n industry that made VCR a winner over BetaMax and they support HD-DVD for easier authoring.

My HTPC will have players for both formats.
Click to expand...

(VHS not VCR)

So how is authoring easier in HD_DVD?
 
Blu-ray will also be more expensive to produce, right? It requires a complete retool for DVD manufacturers, while HD-DVD will be an easier transition.

Honestly, we arn't really using the capacity DVDs give us yet, so price and control (whatever standard gives me the most options) matters most to me.
 
Both standards have too much backing to died quickly. The companies that are behind each standard have huge resources at their disposal, and they are generally very successful companies that don't lose very often.

Right now it seems like blu ray has the advantage - better technology and the backing of the ps3. The PS3 is probably the more significant factor. Total sales of DVD players is pegged at around 170 million worldwide, total sales of ps2 have been around 60 million, the point being that sales of a game console alone may be significant enough to drive the standard alone.

In the end it will come down to selection and price. The winner will need to have both the content that the consumer wants, and at a price point at which they would be willing to buy.

HD-DVD seems to have the edge in terms of price (new DVD production facilities are not needed) and both have a large number of movie studios on their side. But blu ray will have a built in installed base after the launch of the ps3.

It is entirely possible that we will have a 2 standard system as happened with DVD+R and -R and we'll start to see players which play both blu ray and HD-DVD. That is unless licensing problems prevent it. In the end, this competition probably benefits the consumer as competition usually does. The companies behind the standards will have large incentives to lower the prices of both players and discs as quickly as possible, which means we win.
 
we need to root for Blu-Ray since microsoft and intel and them arent supporting it meaning that they arent going to be building in their "protection" schemes and hopefully their protection schemes will never see the light of day.
 
RHollister said:
we need to root for Blu-Ray since microsoft and intel and them arent supporting it meaning that they arent going to be building in their "protection" schemes and hopefully their protection schemes will never see the light of day.
Click to expand...

Sony has too much at stake to allow them not have copy protection. Personally, I think there are two reasons that the new standards are being pushed:

1. Margins are too low on current DVD players and movies, they hope to make more money hyping the new best thing.

2. They're looking for better copy protection than DVDs have.
 
I remember hearing an interview with the RSAB or whatever the movie industry uses and they really want blue ray because of the increased protection of there product. So the movie industry is really pushing this.
 
In my opinion, if both formats are available, the average consumer may go the HD-DVD route because of the DVD familiarity and maybe because of a cheaper price tag.
 
I think Blu-Ray is going to be ahead, and probably sell the most units (both players and discs). A few reasons:

1. The PS3, this is a major player. Both at the manufacturing level and the consumer level.
2. Copy protection. Unless Sony is blowing smoke up the Movie Industries asses, this is a major selling point. Not from the view of the consumer but of liscensing films.
3. Size. Size does matter when it comes to the burners for both of these.
4. Dell & HP. With those to putting BD-Roms in their future boxes that alone will make every low income PC owning family a Blu-Ray supporter.
5. Investors don't care (long term) if Microsoft is backing a product just to steal someones limelight (the PS3). They want the superior product.

About the porn industry. We all know that VHS won out because Sony owned Betamax and would not let the porn industry use it. But that was before the internet. Your foolish to pay for porn today.
 
I'd bet on HD-DVD......why? Look at Sony's record in format wars ;)











I kid I kid.....but seriously............Sony's formats have not been very popular in the States here but it hasn't stopped them from trying. That and with MS backing HD-DVD so you can rip them to harddrives as a required feature..................
 
one of the biggest things in the future is going to be incorporating security into the hardware, lets face it, no matter what programmers do to make software protected there will always be some one to break it. If it gets incorporated into the hardware that is well beyond most hackers knowledge. It still might be done but much less mainstream. Protection fine, making a certain connector required in order to see the highest quality of the movie you just bought not because your tv cant handle it its just that microsoft and intel and the movie industry can have you by the balls. I can only imagine how much of a kick back microsoft will get from the movie industry if they pull this off. The more propriety things get the less choices we have.
 
Sony's record on copy protection schemes is not that good.

Which idiot company was it that had copy protection based on your CD drive auto-reading the disc? That was too funny. Problem is, the companies are learning from their mistakes. We're not going to have a copy protection scheme that can be broken in 15 minutes by some kids who wanna watch some movies on their linux boxes.

Both companies are gonna put some major effort into producing a viable copy protection scheme. Maybe consumers will embrace the easier one to crack and the movie industries would go the opposite way? That would defy the laws of economics.
 
Rhollister

More Propriatary?? DVD IS propriatary. CD IS propriatary. Just because it is the MAJOR media currently being used still does not exclude it from the media being Propriatary (read need a license to play). See below for more on licensing information ;)


Well if we want to talk Sony by format. They actually made the most succesful media that currently exsist and the flops to.

betamax.... Lost against VHS in the consumer market but guess what. The VHS is just about dead. Betamax STILL is being used in 95% of all post production facilities. Betamax did not catch on with the public but it was the media of choise for post production facilities up until the recent digital convergance... Win for Sony

CDs... the good ole compact disc. This sucker is a Phillips/Sony format. To get that Compact Disc logo neeeds to go through Phillips for licensing. Sony Wins as there is no other competing media against CD. DAT is not a competing media. Laser Disc was.

http://www.licensing.philips.com/includes/download.php?id=135&filename=135.pdf

this is what anyone that makes a cd has to pay Phillips on a per disc and upfront costs.

DVD-Video (named herein DVD).. yep that new Star Wars III DVD.. Sony media as sony along with Phillips again patented the DVD. They also patent the DVD-R, DVD-RW.

http://www.licensing.philips.com/licensees/conditions/dvd/

So with just those three... sony actually has the market corner on media choises :)

Of course this is for DVD 4c. For DVD 6c which is a different "patent" all together that cash goes elsewhere but here is the kicker. The patent that Sony/Phillips/Pionner have on 4c is so damn broad that it actually covers even the latest DVD's!

Of course there is the flobs like Memory stick and the Mini-disc. :)
 
Actually a side note on Mini-Disk...it was developed at the exact same time as regular CD's but they figured they would delay its release in the hopes that everyone went out and bought CD equipment and when Mini-Disk came out...would jump on the bandwagon and buy all new equipment again. By the time Mini-Disk came out all the R&D had been paid for and any Mini-Disk sales was pure profit. Don't think for a min anyone one of those companies is thinking about anything other than themselves.
 
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