The Physics Processing Poll

Physics Poll

  • I will purchase Ageia’s PPU as soon as it is released

    Votes: 37 6.4%

  • I will purchase Ageia’s PPU sometime in 2006 but not right away

    Votes: 73 12.7%

  • I will purchase a dedicated PPU sometime in 2007 or onward

    Votes: 67 11.7%

  • I will only purchase Ageia’s PPU when I see a game I really want that uses the PPU

    Votes: 286 49.8%

  • I will not purchase Ageia’s PPU

    Votes: 16 2.8%

  • I would prefer to use my already existing single GPU to aid with physics

    Votes: 25 4.4%

  • I would prefer to add a cheaper GPU (say X1300) to accelerate physics

    Votes: 34 5.9%

  • I would prefer to have SLI or CF and use one GPU for physics and the other for 3D

    Votes: 20 3.5%

  • I am not interested in Physics acceleration in games at all

    Votes: 16 2.8%
  • Total voters
    574
I would perfer to have my older card do physics via SLI through the system bus. But that would entail having a AGP slot and a PCIe slot, hard to come by and they have bad performance. That leaves me with getting a dedicated PPU but I would wait until many games support them, I plainly see their effects, and I see a game I want. But by that time I would build/want a whole new system which I think having a SLI physics would be more beneficial.

See, it's kinda hard to explain or to pick just one. It relies on many factors.
 
I wonder if some of you have read up on PhysX and/or seen the vids of it in action? If you did, you'd see that it's not a "stupid idea", but something that can really make game play more realistic.

Major_A said:
Here is the question I've always had with the PhysX card... Will a player be limited to this in SP only? If I were playing MP and not everyone had one of these it could seriously affect online gaming...
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I would think that at the least, it can be done so that those with a physics proc can be on those servers/games/matches, and those without can be on other servers/games/matches, and that you can only play on either physics-abled or disabled matches - not both. That way, nobody gets screwed in-game.

As far as how it's implemented on the hardware level, my view is that since we already have SLi and since this is going to require another separate proc, we should be able to use one SLi slot for the PPU and one for GPU. In other words: if you want to play in the high-end, you'll have to invest in SLi and the PPU card.

That way, down the road if you want to upgrade one card at a time, you can.
 
Here's my 2 cents worth: Many new tech., such as SACD, Beta, DAT audio tape, became popular for a short while, and got obsolete and the owners of the above tech. just wasted all that money for nothing.

So until most, if not 99% of all popular games support PPU and it become widely accepted, I'm more than happy to live w/ the GPU speed of 1 GPU or SLI GPU. Not to mention the price tag of PPU would be a lot cheaper by then.

THe other thing is, w/i the next 3 yr., AMD will have Quad Core, and 8 Core CPU coming out, so the logical question is, would that be faster than running a game on a PPU?

Needless to say, there is a bottomneck problem on the TB transfer from the loading of the game into the CPU, and then transfer to the PPU, regardless of how fast the PPU, the sys. is as strong as the weakest link, when everything is loaded in memory, the slowest component would be either the CPU or the sys. memory bandwidth
 
aztec61 said:
I would think that at the least, it can be done so that those with a physics proc can be on those servers/games/matches, and those without can be on other servers/games/matches, and that you can only play on either physics-abled or disabled matches - not both. That way, nobody gets screwed in-game.
Click to expand...
This is what I've read by most people responding to what I said. However, I hate that they divide the MP communities like this. The more people playing the same game the easier it is to find a full server. Look at BF2 and expansions, I feel like they are just dividing the community.
 
Do we not already have this with HDR on Counter-strike for example?

If you choose to turn it on and the other guys don't, you get blinded by the sun and they don't?

Solution: Turn it off if you are getting beaten silly. :)

On the other hand, maybe with the physics "improved" the action moves more fluidly and now *with* a PPU you have an advantage over the other guy, in this case, they are stuck as they can't turn on a PPU they don't have. ;)

Perhaps the game developers can have a system, whereby, if all players support a feature, it is turned on, but if any of them doesn't, it is disabled for all.

Sounds reasonably fair .... with an option to make a server only for PPU (or whatever) users too?
 
I think the option 4th down is the most logical of all the choices. This thing is pretty much meant only for physics in games, so the only reason to buy one is when there is a game that actually makes use of it.


And, for you gamers that want a reason - It is called Cell Factor (http://physx.ageia.com/footage.html)

Scroll down and watch the video of it in multiplayer action - you won't be dissapointed.
 
I'm not building a new system until after january of 07, so when I do, I'll probably do everything at once, including at least a dual core cpu, most likely just one video card, the ppu, a decent sound card, and nic card. hopefully they'll have a bunch of pcie stuff available instead of just video cards. Even if I don't really need the ppu at that point, I'll probably pick one up. as long as the trend appears to be headed that way anyway.
 
Happy Hopping said:
Here's my 2 cents worth: Many new tech., such as SACD, Beta, DAT audio tape, became popular for a short while, and got obsolete and the owners of the above tech. just wasted all that money for nothing.

So until most, if not 99% of all popular games support PPU and it become widely accepted, I'm more than happy to live w/ the GPU speed of 1 GPU or SLI GPU. Not to mention the price tag of PPU would be a lot cheaper by then.

THe other thing is, w/i the next 3 yr., AMD will have Quad Core, and 8 Core CPU coming out, so the logical question is, would that be faster than running a game on a PPU?

Needless to say, there is a bottomneck problem on the TB transfer from the loading of the game into the CPU, and then transfer to the PPU, regardless of how fast the PPU, the sys. is as strong as the weakest link, when everything is loaded in memory, the slowest component would be either the CPU or the sys. memory bandwidth
Click to expand...

SACD is not "obsolete"; it's still here but not in widespread use. And no wonder with all of the DVD/CD format options right now.

In 3 years a lot could happen, but what's the point in waiting for that? I'm talking about better gaming in the very near future, ie: "now", so we can use it before hell freezes over! :eek:

I'd imagine that if PhysX is fairly well supported by all concerned, those procs would be improved in 3-5 years time as well. Also, there'd prolly be different levels of PPU's available, so you could buy an entry-level card, a mid-range, or a high-end unit.
 
I had the opportunity to speak with Ageia at the GDC and mess around with the card and a few games. I, as everyone else, voted for getting one when the software is there. I know you can purchase these Ageia cards now with PCs from Dell, Falcon and Alienware (Dell) but the cards wont be available to the end users untill approx. May. The cards are deffinately capable, I am just waiting on the software support and all that should start rolling in around May or so. I know I am stoked to see what the PPU can offer in RTSs like the new Rise of Nations. I am fortunate in that I will be getting a card in for review shortly but without software titles to use it with, it wont be a great experience. Like most new hardware, it has tons of promise but unless the software comes soon, it will be hard to launch the product to end users.
 
Indeed, it all comes down to support. We need games that use it, and we need them to give us a reason to want the technology.
 
yup, I think in the next few months we'll really see where this stuff is all headed. If it's an upward trend, then I'm in. If not, and people are using their second GPU for physics, then I'll grab that's probably my best bet.
 
This is reminding me WAY too much of 3dfx and Voodoo.

I wouldn't invest money in a proprietary API and hardware any more. Those days should be over. I'd much rather an open API or standardized DirectX implementation become prevalent so I can choose between several vendors such as ATi or nVidia for physics acceleration.

Throw this Ageia processor on the dusty shelf beside the Voodoo5.
 
I'd go for either the ageia or gpu based solution, completely hinges on the game for me. I'd probably build a new system at that point as I don't see it being something worth shelling out money for for another year or so.
 
I spoke with quite a few developers at the GDC who said that they prefer the Ageia option because they don't want to spare any GPU power. If I were a betting man, Ageia will be acquired by either nVidia or ATi. I would guess whatever company does the worst between the two GPU companies will buy out Ageia. That’s just my guess though. I really hope it doesn’t play out like that because I really respect what Ageia is doing and where they are taking the industry. Just as everything though, time will tell so until then......cheers to innovation!
 
Alienware has the card listed at 275
Dell has the card listed at 249
Falcon NW has the card listed at 299

Im going to venture a guess and say the Retailers will have it listed at 150 - 225 (since most of the time they are lower priced than OEMs)
 
Well then, let's get ON with it! Gimme a reasonably-priced PPU and a couple of supported games and I'll buy it.
 
i said when i see a game i really wnat uses it.... but thats not entirely true. There has to be quite a few games i really want that use it, and use it to an extent to which gameplay would be affected in a significant way.
 
As much as I would like to see this happen, I feel that this card will just be a starting point that ends up killing mainstream PC gaming. As it stands now, PC gaming is significantly more expensive than console gaming. It's going to be increasingly hard to convince people to buy a card that is nearly as expensive as a brand new Xbox 360 just to make stuff fall down. I'm sure that in the beginning the PPU won't be required but over time it will be to get the full experience of the game.

What's next? Dedicated AI processors? Potentially requiring two extra cards in the future just to get a decent gaming experience will probably end up placing an extra $400 - $500 premium on gaming machines. On top of the already high price of admittance, it will further discourage people from entering PC gaming when you could get all three of the next generation consoles for the same price (if not less).
 
Json23 said:
And, for you gamers that want a reason - It is called Cell Factor (http://physx.ageia.com/footage.html)

Scroll down and watch the video of it in multiplayer action - you won't be dissapointed.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt that is multiplayer action. Carefully watch the movies and read the descriptions below them and you'll see that two different things happen. In the video with the PPU, a soldier takes damage from the exploding truck and in the non-PPU video he does not. This would become a nightmare in multiplayer situations. Chances are, however, that such things would be handled server side and it's unlikely that many servers will have PPUs (partially due to space concerns), at least for the first few years.

The other factor that will make PPUs somewhat irrelevant in multiplayer games is that there could be game breaking differences between those with PPUs and those without. Those with PPUs might see a box land in a certain location, while the server and those without PPUs will see it land in a different location. The player with the PPU might try to hide behind the box only to get shot or he might try to shoot a player he thinks is out in the open but in reality he is hiding behind a box. However, I'm sure there will be server-side checks to ensure that this does not happen.

Also, I can tell you that the video without the PPU is actually more close to what would happen in real life. The PPU seems to promote Hollywood style physics and not necessairly real world physics. Real world physics is pretty damn boring many times and explosions are not usually that exciting.
 
I highly doubt that is multiplayer action.
Click to expand...

The Cellfactor Video is multiplayer.

Personally though, I cant wait to see the PPU's implementation in an RTS or RPG. RTS's should have a much greater depth to them with the PPU, especially with fully interactive enviroments.
 
dotK said:
...What's next? Dedicated AI processors?...
Click to expand...

I think you're forgetting that with the added procs (expense), how much more decent the games will probably be. I doubt that without a real improvement to what's already here, any new tech would get very far.
 
Narisatu said:
The Cellfactor Video is multiplayer.

Personally though, I cant wait to see the PPU's implementation in an RTS or RPG. RTS's should have a much greater depth to them with the PPU, especially with fully interactive enviroments.
Click to expand...

I have never played such games but I just might given these circumstances.
 
Physics in most game is really overkill already... They can implement detailed enough physics for me if they use multithreading. I'll get one when they're cheap or integrated into something else I'd be buying anyways.
 
I really support the idea of this processor but realistically i will only buy one when there is a need.

I dont have a lot of money and will probably get one only when i decided to do a full upgrade AND there is atleast one game that i want to play...

Also a prospected future for the hardware will make my decision easier... i dont want to buy into tech that will eventually become useless... but then again, i want to support the tech

Oh choices choices!! :confused:
 
I chose "I will only purchase Ageia’s PPU when I see a game I really want that uses the PPU"

But I really want "I will only purchase a PPU when I see a game I really want that uses the PPU"
...assuming there will be other brands out other than Ageia
 
Nek said:
...assuming there will be other brands out other than Ageia
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What do you mean? You have Ageia chips on BFG, ASUS, etc cards just like videocards have nVidia chips on BFG, XFX, eVGA, etc cards. If you mean another competing brand, something like ATi vs. nVidia, as in a competitor for Ageia, that will be unlikely as Ageia also owns the engine it runs on. There are competing physics solutions but which hardware solution is going to work is going to depend on what the game supports. If the game uses the PhysX engine, the only thing that will accelerate that is a PhysX PPU. In contrast if it used Havok FX (GPU physics engine), then the PPU won’t do anything.
 
Personally, I would like to see a standardized/abstract API, similar in effect to DirectX and OpenGL (I am not the biggest fan of DirectX, being a Linux gamer, but I will give it credit). I think some rumors have surfaced that Microsoft has thought about adding a physic section to the DirectX library. I do hope that Ageia doesn't leave use behind though either (us as in the Linux gamers). I know the PhysX engine is available to Linux, since I haven't seen Icculus mention any thing about UT2007s Linux and Mac ports getting dropped. The thing is I haven't seen much news from Ageia mentioning support for the hardware acceleration though. :(
 
I will buy one "IF" one of two things happen.

1. There is a Game I REALLY like that MUST have the card.

2. A few games come out that are made better by the card AND the cards have dropped in price...around the realm of 50-75 bucks.

IMO what I have seen so far is only worth a $75 investment and that is if the technology is in fact on the "slow" development cycle like the soundcards as these cards are being touted.
 
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