"They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Any More"

[TerranUp16]

But I can take that vacuum cleaner back to the store and get my money back--BIG difference. Hell, that IS the difference.

Can you? After you've opened it and the like? If the store you bought it from has a return policy that allows you to, you can. But if it doesn't? If you're in a store that doesn't have such a favorable return policy and see a vacuum you want for a good price, would you buy it? You don't HAVE to buy games- you have no physical need for them, and game distributors are not required to have a return policy such as you have described. Now, see, here we are, right back at preference. You are now telling me that a favorable return policy is part of your set of preferences you attempt to satisfy when buying a product. You are also telling me that video games, generally, do not satisfy this preference. Therefore, why do you buy them? If you do, you are making a conscious decision that having the game is more important than being unable to return it if you don't like it- the rewards outweigh the risk.

Now, back to entitlement. You are not entitled to a favorable return policy. Should there be such a policy? Maybe. Tell you what, if you think it's such a great idea, go open your own game store with just such a policy. See how well it does. Maybe if it does really well, other game stores will copy the policy- problem solved. Back to entitlement again. Here we are, talking about games as $50 or $60, but in reality, they are only those prices at launch- and even then, they are not necessarily so much. If you feel a game is not worth such money, then do not buy it at such a price. Look around for a cheaper price, and if you do not find one, then simply wait. I waited four months and got Stranglehold for $12. You are not entitled to have a game at your preferred price at your preferred time.

 

[drzaus]

I'll make another interesting comment to stir the debate.

Has anyone thought that maybe its your right to choose to pirate software? Sure, this might sound rather radical but maybe some people actually believe that pirating software is perfectly OK. After all, there is dedicated groups to the hacking/cracking of software. People continuously DL these groups efforts. Sure it is not legal in this country but what about other countries? I'm not going to sugar coat anything but I strongly believe that pirating makes little to no difference in the economics of selling games. Lets face it folks everyone has their own opinion and their own moral objections.

Lets see if this post can set a record for most replies....that will soon be forgotten.

 

[kllrnohj]

I'll make another interesting comment to stir the debate.

Has anyone thought that maybe its your right to choose to pirate software? Sure, this might sound rather radical but maybe some people actually believe that pirating software is perfectly OK. After all, there is dedicated groups to the hacking/cracking of software. People continuously DL these groups efforts. Sure it is not legal in this country but what about other countries? I'm not going to sugar coat anything but I strongly believe that pirating makes little to no difference in the economics of selling games. Lets face it folks everyone has their own opinion and their own moral objections.

Lets see if this post can set a record for most replies....that will soon be forgotten.

No, this is a completely ridiculous suggestion. It is akin to working all day, and then your employer saying "You know what? You did good work, but I'm not paying for it - so fuck off. Oh, and next week I want to see more hard work. This time I *might* pay you for it, but not likely". It isn't your right to steal another's hard work - ever. But since you seem for it, where do you live so I can come pirate your house? It is my right, after all

 

[stoney_titan]

In Sweden there are politicians that openly state that they would not pass any legislation against pirating. Thats just one country off of the top of my head that has many many unsympathetic pirates. Even though a large majority of the material is American made.

Watch "Steal this movie II" if your interested in the subject.

 

[MrGuvernment]

No, this is a completely ridiculous suggestion. It is akin to working all day, and then your employer saying "You know what? You did good work, but I'm not paying for it - so fuck off. Oh, and next week I want to see more hard work. This time I *might* pay you for it, but not likely". It isn't your right to steal another's hard work - ever. But since you seem for it, where do you live so I can come pirate your house? It is my right, after all

when you download / copy / pirate something you not physically depriving someone of their copy, thus your comparison does not apply in anyways, shape or form, because when you download something, the other person still has their copy.

 

[balthan]

Black and white, it's theft. You think the pirates of the 7 seas(notice where the term piracy stems from?) borrowed the cargo they stole off the ships they sunk or captured?

Re-defining what theft is doesn't change what it is.

I'm not re-defining anything.

Theft physically deprives the owner of a specific object. Piracy (more correctly, "copyright infringement") does not. If I steal a game, the owner can't use it anymore because they don't physically have it anymore. If I pirate a game, the owner can still play it, and I can now play it since I have a copy.

LOL! What? I hope seriously that was a joke. If not, this is just another example of the mentality of the average "talking monkey" who has no values or standards what-so-ever.

Piracy = stealing. I thought that was pretty much like "2+2=4", but I suppose the real mental giants know a secret we don't...

Piracy != stealing. I'm not endorsing or condoning it, but applying the wrong labels to try to get an emotional response ("meat is murder") is intellectually dishonest.

 

[MrGuvernment]

I'll make another interesting comment to stir the debate.

Has anyone thought that maybe its your right to choose to pirate software? Sure, this might sound rather radical but maybe some people actually believe that pirating software is perfectly OK. After all, there is dedicated groups to the hacking/cracking of software. People continuously DL these groups efforts. Sure it is not legal in this country but what about other countries? I'm not going to sugar coat anything but I strongly believe that pirating makes little to no difference in the economics of selling games. Lets face it folks everyone has their own opinion and their own moral objections.

Lets see if this post can set a record for most replies....that will soon be forgotten.

i don't think it is a right to pirate software at all, nor do governments see it that way, just other government's have far greater concerns to give a shit about then something that frankly is insignificant in terms of problems with in a country, all that time and money spent on chasing down kids in their basements, or middle ages men who cant get laid, could of been spend solving things like feed the hungry, better health care, cleaning up their city, but since massive corporations are behind the chases, the government is happy to give all the resources they need.

Some in site into the "scene" as it is so called.

the groups that obtain, hack and crack most content, we all now the top names of these groups (fairlight, centropy and such back in the days) they don't WANT your typical person to get a hold of what they do, frankly they dont want anyone outside of respectable groups to see it or know it happened.


they do what they do as an inner competition with in groups to see who is better at getting into things, who can do it fastest, properly, any group that is serious, doesn't release their work to P2P network, what happens is their work trickles down into the system's via site admins, couriers, then FXP'r , forums, and hits P2P eventually cause grandma joe wants to upload it to fee 1337 in some way, it really isnt as easy as i think many of you think it maybe, it literally has many levels and steps of resources and access for something to end up on some forum board or P2P network.

many nfo's will tell you exactly this, they don't care nor want you to get or distribute their work, it is exactly what brings and has brought all the attention to the "scene" and really "ruined" for those who did this for fun to stick it to the man so to say, once p2p became popular, that is when alot of groups went under and disappeared, and when new groups with no respect for scene rules and protocol ruined it.

most groups now don't care about anything and just want to be 1337'est pricks who think they are the shizzo cause they got a printed DVD off some production line or snuck a camcorder into the theater.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Can you? After you've opened it and the like? If the store you bought it from has a return policy that allows you to, you can. But if it doesn't? If you're in a store that doesn't have such a favorable return policy and see a vacuum you want for a good price, would you buy it? You don't HAVE to buy games- you have no physical need for them, and game distributors are not required to have a return policy such as you have described. Now, see, here we are, right back at preference. You are now telling me that a favorable return policy is part of your set of preferences you attempt to satisfy when buying a product. You are also telling me that video games, generally, do not satisfy this preference. Therefore, why do you buy them? If you do, you are making a conscious decision that having the game is more important than being unable to return it if you don't like it- the rewards outweigh the risk.

Now, back to entitlement. You are not entitled to a favorable return policy. Should there be such a policy? Maybe. Tell you what, if you think it's such a great idea, go open your own game store with just such a policy. See how well it does. Maybe if it does really well, other game stores will copy the policy- problem solved. Back to entitlement again. Here we are, talking about games as $50 or $60, but in reality, they are only those prices at launch- and even then, they are not necessarily so much. If you feel a game is not worth such money, then do not buy it at such a price. Look around for a cheaper price, and if you do not find one, then simply wait. I waited four months and got Stranglehold for $12. You are not entitled to have a game at your preferred price at your preferred time.

Canada law now states, at least in Ontario, a store can not take back an opened game, period, this is the Canadian government stepping in saying this now.

While i was in Canada a lady , this woman was maybe 50, she had bought some game for the xbox for xmas for her kids, USED / obviously opened prior, cause it was used, she said she was supposed to get it for the PS 2, and asked to change it, they said no, sorry, we cant take back opened games.... and that they can do anything, no store credit, NOTHING because it was an opened gamed, she then asked, okay fine, how much to "trade" it in $1 for that game and $0.50 for that game, she flipped, she had paid $30 a pop per game, got the wrong console, understandable mistake i am sure PLENTY of parents do.....

okay sure, someone could of copied it for her, but lets say they didnt.

So she makes this mistake, she was sold an OPEN already game... i assume the store may have put on of their clear see through labels on it to claim it wasnt opened, but you know kids, they get excited, open it, look at the pury disk and then go WHOOPS mommy, wrong console!

this screws people over, BUT on the other side of it, she could of copied it, and her kids should of looked at the box where it says XBOX on the case and not PS2.

So, she we have inspection stations now for games to make sure we got the kids the rght one before they get so excited and rip all the packaging open.... or just screw legit customers....

 

[MrGuvernment]

whoops

 

[gibber]

Jesus, when will people stop being so ignorant? So sick of people incorrectly calling copyright infringement stealing. It's simply NOT stealing, stealing is different in several significant ways. Ugh. What will they think of next? Hand out parking tickets for committing rape???

I'm not saying it's not a crime, but get it straight. Please.

 

[dark_reign]

Can you? After you've opened it and the like? If the store you bought it from has a return policy that allows you to, you can. But if it doesn't? If you're in a store that doesn't have such a favorable return policy and see a vacuum you want for a good price, would you buy it? You don't HAVE to buy games- you have no physical need for them, and game distributors are not required to have a return policy such as you have described. Now, see, here we are, right back at preference. You are now telling me that a favorable return policy is part of your set of preferences you attempt to satisfy when buying a product. You are also telling me that video games, generally, do not satisfy this preference. Therefore, why do you buy them? If you do, you are making a conscious decision that having the game is more important than being unable to return it if you don't like it- the rewards outweigh the risk.

Now, back to entitlement. You are not entitled to a favorable return policy. Should there be such a policy? Maybe. Tell you what, if you think it's such a great idea, go open your own game store with just such a policy. See how well it does. Maybe if it does really well, other game stores will copy the policy- problem solved. Back to entitlement again. Here we are, talking about games as $50 or $60, but in reality, they are only those prices at launch- and even then, they are not necessarily so much. If you feel a game is not worth such money, then do not buy it at such a price. Look around for a cheaper price, and if you do not find one, then simply wait. I waited four months and got Stranglehold for $12. You are not entitled to have a game at your preferred price at your preferred time.

I make sure the store has a liberal return policy. Problem solved.

No, I don't have to buy games like I don't have buy DVDs. But with DVDs I buy what I've already SEEN (either on TV or I borrowed it), so I know what I'm getting. The only exception would be with used DVDs, where I may buy something I haven't seen but didn't pay much for it either. It may be a risk but it didn't cost me $50. I suppose I can do that with games as well, but it's rare to find NEWER used games really cheap. But of course, all sales final if I go that route as well.

There was a time where you could take back opened software for whatever reason. This was many years ago but I do remember it. I even remember taking back some opened SNES games and got my money back. Wow, am I dreaming?

What's the difference if I played a game when new or three years later selling for $12? It wouldn't have any value to me unless I liked it. I most likely would have paid for it IF I really liked it.

Entitlement is just ethics coming into play. You either conform or to a set of rules set by some higher authority or you don't. People are not sheep. Well...okay, some are.

 

[gibber]

Canada law now states, at least in Ontario, a store can not take back an opened game, period, this is the Canadian government stepping in saying this now.

While i was in Canada a lady , this woman was maybe 50, she had bought some game for the xbox for xmas for her kids, USED / obviously opened prior, cause it was used, she said she was supposed to get it for the PS 2, and asked to change it, they said no, sorry, we cant take back opened games.... and that they can do anything, no store credit, NOTHING because it was an opened gamed, she then asked, okay fine, how much to "trade" it in $1 for that game and $0.50 for that game, she flipped, she had paid $30 a pop per game, got the wrong console, understandable mistake i am sure PLENTY of parents do.....

okay sure, someone could of copied it for her, but lets say they didnt.

So she makes this mistake, she was sold an OPEN already game... i assume the store may have put on of their clear see through labels on it to claim it wasnt opened, but you know kids, they get excited, open it, look at the pury disk and then go WHOOPS mommy, wrong console!

this screws people over, BUT on the other side of it, she could of copied it, and her kids should of looked at the box where it says XBOX on the case and not PS2.

So, she we have inspection stations now for games to make sure we got the kids the rght one before they get so excited and rip all the packaging open.... or just screw legit customers....

Wow, if I was in Canada, that would FORCE me to NEVER buy ANY game EVER again, I would switch to pirating ALL SOFTWARE because that is the most idiotic law.

What if you don't agree with the license terms, then what? It says RIGHT IN THE LICENSE: "If you don't agree to these terms than return the software", so I guess it's technically impossible to agree to the terms since you couldn't legally follow them?

If that happened to me, it would go to the supreme court, or else some game stores would be filled with truckloads of poop, and it would be in opened packages so they couldn't return it to me.

 

[Met-AL]

But I can take that vacuum cleaner back to the store and get my money back--BIG difference. Hell, that IS the difference.

The reason software is not returnable is because of all the dark_reign_cheap_asses out there that take it home, install it, burn a copy and then return it.

 

[gibber]

Games are expensive to make, that is why they cost $50-60. It is a fairly justified cost.



Ideally you should be happy with your purchase, but it is not the company's problem if you aren't happy with it. There is no 100% satisfaction guarantee stamped onto video game boxes like there are on those crappy as seen on TV products.

And not having fun with/not liking a game does *NOT* constitute a problem with the product.

So, I guess if I make some buns and fill them with sterilized (so, safe to eat) poop, that if you don't like them, that's YOUR problem, even though on the package it didn't say that they're filled with poop and you thought it was chocolate pudding because on the box it says "tasty chocolate filled buns" and has a nice pretty picture that looks like yummy chocolate? Of course, I wouldn't have to list the ingredients, because on the outside of a game package they're not going to be honest and say "this game really didn't turn out very good, but, we decided to hype it up, put a fancy package on it, and say "It's Great!" so we could get you to waste $60 on it even though you'll only end up playing it for 15 minutes before it sits on the shelf evermore to collect dust and be forgotten." "Ha ha ha, we screwed you out of $60 and you CAN'T EVEN RETURN IT TO THE STORE! HA HA HA!"

 

[pfunkman]

Wow what a discussion. I guess ill share my take on it then.

When im interested in a particular game first thing i will do is call up some friends and see if anyone has it. If i dont know anyone with the game ill download it and then play it for a while if i like it i go buy it if i dont i uninstall it and delete the ISO.

Now let me explain why before the anti piracy nazis get thier panties in a bunch.

For years now its been common practice for these developers to release shitty half assed betas and i am sick to death of spending my hard earned cash to be dissapointed and annoyed with broken and incomplete software. Unfortunately this wouldnt be a problem except that every retailer has adopted shitty return policies to "protect" against piracy. Some developers have even taken their anti piracy campaigns so far that you have to register a game when you buy it making it nearly impossible and not totally legal to even sell the damn thing if you dont like it.

And like said before $50 a game is a fucking joke. The only way im going to drop $50 on a game is if i know i like it and i know it works well.

Ya know if anyone actually believes that these developers are struggling to make money and sympathize with them you need a reality check. If they where not making as much money as they wanted they would have abandoned the PC market years ago.

Now i know some people are just cheap and some are leaches but i for one am sick of being ripped off by the gaming industry. If they want my money they have to earn it with more than marketing hype, they actually have to release a quality product.

 

[ex0du5]

when you download / copy / pirate something you not physically depriving someone of their copy, thus your comparison does not apply in anyways, shape or form, because when you download something, the other person still has their copy.

You deprive the developers compensation for their work. His analogy is perfectly accurate.

 

[dark_reign]

The reason software is not returnable is because of all the dark_reign_cheap_asses out there that take it home, install it, burn a copy and then return it.

Well, not with copy protected discs. Yeah, there's a way around that but they never used to copy protect them. The average joe six pack isn't going to figure it out, so he goes and downloads it. What's the difference?

There's a difference in being cheap and getting ripped-off. IMO there's nothing wrong with being cheap. A penny saved is a penny earned. If you like to throw your money away then that's fine with me.

The justification for pirating a game is that there's a very strong chance that I will not like the game. Sure, I could buy the game, play it for an hour and either like it or hate it. The chances of me not liking it are greater than liking it. The quality of games has gone down and the risk is higher. I actually miss the days where I went to a game store and came home with two or three games and played them all. Those days are long gone.

 

[squares]

The reason software is not returnable is because of all the dark_reign_cheap_asses out there that take it home, install it, burn a copy and then return it.

A lot of stores here in california dont let you return games either.

 

[Terminus]

h4x da plan3t

 

[Kowan]

I'm not re-defining anything.

Theft physically deprives the owner of a specific object. Piracy (more correctly, "copyright infringement") does not. If I steal a game, the owner can't use it anymore because they don't physically have it anymore. If I pirate a game, the owner can still play it, and I can now play it since I have a copy.
Piracy != stealing. I'm not endorsing or condoning it, but applying the wrong labels to try to get an emotional response ("meat is murder") is intellectually dishonest.

If you did not buy the game copied, it's still theft. You can use any term to lie to yourself, but that doesn't change the fact it is theft.

 

[Roufuss]

For years now its been common practice for these developers to release shitty half assed betas and i am sick to death of spending my hard earned cash to be dissapointed and annoyed with broken and incomplete software. .

You do realize there is such things as reviews, right, and you don't *have* to buy a game the day it comes out? Hell, these days I don't buy a game for a few days unless I know for a fact it is excellent (re: anything by Nintendo), just to see what real world gamers as well as reviewers feel about a game, since sometimes a reviewer will miss something that a gamer will pick up on.

Some of you act like you are being forced at gunpoint to buy a game the day it comes out at full price or else you will never get the chance to play it.

I'm sick of developers releasing shitty betas too, I just don't buy them because I do my research beforehand. Anyone would have seen within 24 hours just what kind of games Unreal Tournament 3 and Hellgate London were when they released... I waited, and chose not to spend my money.

The moral of the story is don't buy things at release, this way you can weed out what is broken and what's not and what is worth the money. Some of these arguments are valid, but not the ones that people say they are sick of spending $50 and getting a buggy game, because there are ways to circumvent that, and it's called not buying the game, not stealing it.

I guess I will never get how pirating is ok, but walking into Best Buy, putting the game in your coat and walking out are wrong. I guess when things aren't tangible and physical, it doesn't matter anymore, similar to how everyone is a dick on Xbox Live simply because it's anonymous.

And I know that there is no way to rent PC games, but the people that pirate console games and use the excuse "well, I just wanted to try it out to see if I liked it", it's called Blockbluster and Gamefly, you can rent a game for like $5 and play it to your hearts content without resorting to something illegal.

 

[talk2farley]

Don't be idiots. Yes, it is possible to steal console games. And yes, it was possible to steal PC games and other digital media even before the internet came around. But, hell guys, you could just steal units off the shelves long before any kind of digital content copying by the end user was feasible.

The problem is content theft rates. Rates of theft off of retail shelves are low. Rates of theft of illegal but physical copies off the street are low. Rates of theft of console and other hardware-restricted media is low.

Rates of theft of unresitrcted PC content via the inernet are staggering, both for PC games, and music. It has really hit profitability hard, to the point that as much as a quarter of every dollar made goes to offsetting the costs of piracy (either directly, through paying for losses, or indirectly, through funding anti-piracy programs). Online piracy is extremely simple, extremely cheap (it's considered basically free for the end-user, as the costs in terms of time, processing power, and eletricity are minute), and extremely safe (the net is anonymous, the stolen product is nonphysical, and enforcement is light).

 

[pfunkman]

You do realize there is such things as reviews, right, and you don't *have* to buy a game the day it comes out? Hell, these days I don't buy a game for a few days unless I know for a fact it is excellent (re: anything by Nintendo), just to see what real world gamers as well as reviewers feel about a game, since sometimes a reviewer will miss something that a gamer will pick up on.

Some of you act like you are being forced at gunpoint to buy a game the day it comes out at full price or else you will never get the chance to play it.

I'm sick of developers releasing shitty betas too, I just don't buy them because I do my research beforehand. Anyone would have seen within 24 hours just what kind of games Unreal Tournament 3 and Hellgate London were when they released... I waited, and chose not to spend my money.

The moral of the story is don't buy things at release, this way you can weed out what is broken and what's not and what is worth the money. Some of these arguments are valid, but not the ones that people say they are sick of spending $50 and getting a buggy game, because there are ways to circumvent that, and it's called not buying the game, not stealing it.

I guess I will never get how pirating is ok, but walking into Best Buy, putting the game in your coat and walking out are wrong. I guess when things aren't tangible and physical, it doesn't matter anymore, similar to how everyone is a dick on Xbox Live simply because it's anonymous.

And I know that there is no way to rent PC games, but the people that pirate console games and use the excuse "well, I just wanted to try it out to see if I liked it", it's called Blockbluster and Gamefly, you can rent a game for like $5 and play it to your hearts content without resorting to something illegal.

You see, here comes the self righteous poorly thought out response i expected...

Ever play a buggy game but still like it? Ever play a game that got bad reviews and still enjoy it? Ever play a game that was supposedly not buggy at all and got great reviews and hate it? Reviews dont always mean shit its personal opinion.

Come on that same tired analogy? Get the fuck off it... Stealing from a retailer is different then copying something im so sick of that self righteous ignorant comparison. This is the kind of brain washing were being force fed by the RIAA and movie intustry. Its no longer copyright infringement to copy something its now stealing...just like stealing a car!

 

[Kahnvex]

You see, here comes the self righteous poorly thought out response i expected...

Ever play a buggy game but still like it? Ever play a game that got bad reviews and still enjoy it? Ever play a game that was supposedly not buggy at all and got great reviews and hate it? Reviews dont always mean shit its personal opinion.

Come on that same tired analogy? Get the fuck off it... Stealing from a retailer is different then copying something im so sick of that self righteous ignorant comparison. This is the kind of brain washing were being force fed by the RIAA and movie industry. Its no longer copyright infringement to copy something its now stealing...just like stealing a car!

He wasn't stating every aspect of his argument as the end all be all to the problem, he was stating common sense ways to mitigate the issue of spending $50 (since thats the magic number for a pc game, apparently ) on a game that ends up having issues, sucking shit, being lame, blah blah blah. No one answer is the solution, the set of them is a good start.

You're looking for ways to bend the argument to support your view, that piracy isn't the same as physical theft. Well, to that sir, I can only simply give you the big "whatever" because no one here is going to change anyone else's mind.

Heres me in a nutshell:

I don't buy games first day, I don't pay more than $40, rare exceptions exist. I search for deals, use coupons, and don't require instant gratification until I can make an informed purchase. Thats me. it's worked out pretty well, the last game I bought sight unseen was Quake 4, but I got it for something like $20.

The low price helped buoy the disappointment, which is one of the reasons I've adopted this tactic/purchasing habit. Much the way a shitty movie is an awful disappointment in the theatre as a $30 dollar night out with the wife, but passable and entertaining were it to show up from Netflix and watched with some beers and buddies on the couch.

If I can't get a good opinion from friends, reading articles, browsing this forum, playing a demo, really just can't make up my mind, or simply want to performance test something on my PC, I will pirate and crack something.

If I like it, I go buy it. If I don't, why would I keep it and play it? I don't have time to play shit games I don't like, free or not. Whether anyone believes that to be true or false is irrelevant to me, it's what I do. I don't consider it stealing, and since the worthless car analogy is so popular in here, lets call it a test drive of the commercially available product.

I'm not going to try to half-ass morally whitewash that to anybody, call it as you see it. I will say it's a dormant issue with me, considering the last game I can play on my system to my satisfaction is Battlefield 2, and that is the last game I purchased on PC. I really used that little tactic in more than two years. Right now I know my system won't play anything new, so I don't even bother. I buy enough console games to keep all the major players in business, and keep myself busy.

And I will be buying CoD4 when I do a new build later this year, regardless of what price I find it, as they definitely deserve the moolah.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

For a more accurate example: I bought farcry. I cried and was a sad monkey. It looked good, but was overall a mediocre game. Yet everywhere you look game reviewers gave it fellatio until it hurt. Even on forums it generally started off with good opinions.

I downloaded Crysis, it had the same problem. I'm glad I didn't fork over my cash a second time. I will test out farcry 2 the same way, if its good, I will pull my wallet out of my pants and unload some money on it. if its not, then I'm doing the gaming industry a favor by not supporting a mediocre product.

 

[dark_reign]

Heres me in a nutshell:

I don't buy games first day, I don't pay more than $40, rare exceptions exist. I search for deals, use coupons, and don't require instant gratification until I can make an informed purchase. Thats me. it's worked out pretty well, the last game I bought sight unseen was Quake 4, but I got it for something like $20.

But don't you realize you're depriving a game developer of their hard-earned money by looking for deals and using coupons? I wouldn't doubt that kind of action is considered 'theft' by some from the anti-piracy crowd. Being a cheap bastard is baaaaad.

Gee, if most gamers waited for the price to drop to $20 or less on games the industry would go belly-up.

 

[pigwalk]

But don't you realize you're depriving a game developer of their hard-earned money by looking for deals and using coupons? I wouldn't doubt that kind of action is considered 'theft' by some from the anti-piracy crowd. Being a cheap bastard is baaaaad.

Would you rather he just download the game then? Not all of us can go out and blow 50 bucks for every game.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

But don't you realize you're depriving a game developer of their hard-earned money by looking for deals and using coupons? I wouldn't doubt that kind of action is considered 'theft' by some from the anti-piracy crowd. Being a cheap bastard is baaaaad.

Not really, that screws the store buying the game out of that cash. The store pays the same bulk price regardless what you fucking do. If you steal if from the store, they devs still got their cash.

 

[ex0du5]

But don't you realize you're depriving a game developer of their hard-earned money by looking for deals and using coupons? I wouldn't doubt that kind of action is considered 'theft' by some from the anti-piracy crowd. Being a cheap bastard is baaaaad.

Gee, if most gamers waited for the price to drop to $20 or less on games the industry would go belly-up.

This comment just makes me think you have no knowledge of the working world, as well as simple micro-economy whatsoever.

 

[phide]

This is the kind of brain washing were being force fed by the RIAA and movie intustry. Its no longer copyright infringement to copy something its now stealing...just like stealing a car!

That's what they'd say, yeah. Piracy isn't theft in the same manner as boosting a Pontiac is theft, but, by Oxford's definition, one can still (loosely) call it theft:

STEAL
verb
1 take (something) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it. 2 give or take surreptitiously [secretly] or without permission

The second definition is more applicable than the first, but the first is still sort of applicable. 'Take' can be defined as 'to capture or gain possession of by force'. This goes back to the concept of permission, as the creator/owner is the only entity capable of granting permission for you to take a work (which they charge you for). The illegal distributor does not have permission to 'give', and you thusly don't have permission to 'take'. You subvert the proper channels of acquiring the product.

From a legal perspective, theft is more narrowly defined. From a perspective of diction, it could be called theft. You can call it whatever you want, I suppose, but I think "pay evasion" fits pretty well. Perhaps "developer dinner deprivation". What do you think?

 

[TheNuker]

Pirating software/music/movies is like you had a ACME cloning machine directly from Looney Tunes which you point at something and it duplicates it. You don't harm whoever you duplicate it from but benefits yourself.

Their claims of lost sales are inaccurate since you cannot be sure whoever pirated that stuff would actually buy it anyway. Pirating doesn't harm anyone but benefits whoever does it, unlike stealing an actual object where the thief gains and whom he steals from loses.

It's a complicate situation, I know, but I don't agree with the whole pirates harm the industry argument. People that have the intention of buying will end up doing so anyway, and those that wouldn't ever buy such thing would still not buy it even if there was no way to pirate it.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

Theres actually some truth there. Theres lots of stuff I've pirated that I would otherwise never buy. Sometimes I was actually surprised and bought it anyway, or showed it to a friend who was the same and he bought it.

In that sense it increased their sales by 1 (sometimes 2 or more.)

 

[sdlvx]

I have strict rules for piracy. I will *ONLY* do it if it's an old game I can't find in a store (like original doom, x wing alliance, etc), it's an old console, or if it's a mediocre game I just want to try.

Also, I'm boycotting EA, so I will *NEVER* buy a game from them. They ripped me off with BF2 (patches, and invalidating my CD key when I never cheated, hacked, or anything. They never told me anything, one day, I just go to sign on and it tells me invalid CD key.)

However, when a good game does come out, like any half life, Bioshock, or Call of Duty 4, I buy it. Not because I have to, but because the game is worthy of my money, and the developers should see it.

The problem with video games is that they've grown rather un-innovative for the most part, and that their target market are people who can't really afford 50 dollars on games. Sure, they might have a decent gaming PC, but it's entirely possible that's mommy and daddy's work, not theirs.

How many high schoolers want to scrap together 50 dollars from their 7 dollar an hour job to buy a game when you can spend that money on something else or save it and get the game for free?

 

[drzaus]

Why do you people think I use P2P? I am much more advanced than that crap....get a clue OR actually DON'T...

Jack Sparrow: Well, then, I confess, it is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out.

 

[Shottah_king]

I hope all PC Games become released on a STEAM like platform, where you need to connect to the Internet to play the game.. If you don't have Internet than thats your problem... I'd rather have to authenticate myself on a server, than play JACKED up games because half the CHEAPPPPPPPPPP PC GAMING COMMUNITY BELIEVES IN PIRACY.. WTF

 

[Revenicus]

Theres actually some truth there. Theres lots of stuff I've pirated that I would otherwise never buy.

Nope, that's an assumption, and it's simply invalid.

In the event that you weren't able to pirate the 'stuff', your situation would be different, your thought process, different, and so you might have gone ahead with buying it seeing as there was no alternative. So, you can't say that you definately wouldn't have because you don't live in a world where it's not possible to pirate material.

Basically what I'm saying is that you're not omniscient, so the 'i wouldn't have bought it anyway' argument is invalid.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

no, I'm not. But I won't buy anything unless I#ve tried it (legally or not) and I don't tend to like to try new things.

I'm also a penny pinching cheapskate scotsman, (genetically) so in the end, if I don't know I'll get my money's worth, I won't spend a dime.


edit: before I discovered try then buy, I didn't buy shit unless I had played it with a friend or some other way. Now I can try pretty much any game, not just a limited subset that at that time my short attention spanned RTS/FPS addicted friend played.

Now in Berlin I don't know any gamers, so...

 

[ex0du5]

no, I'm not. But I won't buy anything unless I#ve tried it (legally or not) and I don't tend to like to try new things.

I'm also a penny pinching cheapskate scotsman, (genetically) so in the end, if I don't know I'll get my money's worth, I won't spend a dime.


edit: before I discovered try then buy, I didn't buy shit unless I had played it with a friend or some other way. Now I can try pretty much any game, not just a limited subset that at that time my short attention spanned RTS/FPS addicted friend played.

Now in Berlin I don't know any gamers, so...

So you're telling me that if you couldn't pirate games to try them, that you wouldn't buy games at all. I don't believe that for a single second. You would most certainly buy more games than you currently do if you couldn't pirate.

And to those arguing how pirating is legal in other countries....well that reason is quite simple. These countries that allow this kind of activity, are countries that profit from their users pirating. How you ask? Simple. The population in these countries, were they to acquire games legally, would be buying from international sources/developers. This exports money from the country, without giving any benefits to the country. If the country allows pirating, then the population won't spend money on international software products, and instead spend that money inside the country, benefiting that country.

 

[Bop]

To the people who pirate games that they will "never buy":

How about you just... get a sense of honor and morals and don't steal it. Just hang out with your friends, play an older game, or anything else if you're bored.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

So you're telling me that if you couldn't pirate games to try them, that you wouldn't buy games at all. I don't believe that for a single second. You would most certainly buy more games than you currently do if you couldn't pirate.

Interesting concept. Apparently you don't quite understand the concept of "broke ass scotsman" and their hatred for wasting money.

In the end I have to say "Oh contraire!" my friend, I only bought games I'd played before piracy, and if they magically stop it permanently, I will still only play games I have tried.

That includes MMOs and their beta tests.