This mining war between companies is going to cost us

Maybe mining is helping AMD gain the revenue required to catch up to Intel and make the greatest CPU of all time!




OF ALL TIME.




























OF ALL TIME MOTHAFUCKA
 
Keep dreaming. So many people have gotten pissed off at AMD not stopping the price gouging that they now walked to Nvidia. Goodluck getting them back because miners in the end don't upgrade cards once their farms are up and running.

AMD may be selling cards, but IMHO, it's to the wrong group of people. I think this will bite AMD in the ass.
 
Venomous said:
Keep dreaming. So many people have gotten pissed off at AMD not stopping the price gouging that they now walked to Nvidia. Goodluck getting them back because miners in the end don't upgrade cards once their farms are up and running.
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Miners are IMO the most optimal customers for video card companies, since they

a) Are willing to pay top dollar for the newest video cards if the ROI is there
b) Buy the high-end, higher margin cards to maximize hash/slot, instead of the low-margin low-end cards
c) Often don't resell out-of-date video cards so long as they show a operating profit, thereby keeping the secondary market strong. They rather use the profits to continually expand their farms.
 
So what did these miners do when GPU BTC mining became nonviable? Oh boy. I saw so many used and abused cards on ebay with new stock not selling. Remember all those cayman cards on ebay after BTC GPU mining went bust a few years back. 5870s? Cheap. EVERYWHERE. Used cards all over the place, new stock wasn't selling. Not so sure that's the optimal customer. It's the customer of opportunity, and when corporations take over scrypt mining with 100,000 ASIC data centers - which would of course make GPU scrypt nonviable - they will be out once again.

I don't know when that will happen. 1 month? 2 months? 6? 1 year? Shrug. But your suggestion that miners are optimal customers. I don't agree. These are not loyal customers, generally speaking, whereas PC gamers (which I should add is the INTENDED demographic) are the loyal fans who will stick with a brand through the thick and thin. If someone buys an AMD card and has a good experience with PC gaming, they'll usually go back the next time around and buy them again. Customer loyalty - it applies to NV as well. When someone has a good experience and they upgrade again in a year, they come back. The bottom line is if mining goes bust for scrypt, and I think it will once corporations and China build data centers (this is what happened to BTC by the way) these miners will be out. Ebay will have tons of cards. New stock won't sell. Miners aren't optimal customers. Once mining for scrypt isn't viable, they're out and out for good. Then again we'll have tons and tons of used cards on the cheap. So maybe that's good for PC gamers, if you're able to get a card that isn't completely used and abused.

I'm not saying that's imminent of course, who knows when it will happen. Mining could go on for another year, I don't know. My main point is I don't agree at all about optimal customers. For a little while? Sure. When mining scrypt is done? You won't see them again. I think in the long run, the PC gamers are the ones who are loyal and are the ones who come back. Also, AMD does not see any of the price hiked profits, the etailers get that.
 
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You could make the point, also, that AMD isn't selling any cards, and that AIBs are selling to distributors, not directly to customers (in most cases). Retailers and etailers are selling to miners, and miners seem quite content to pay hundreds over MSRP, and to buy many at a time.

Miners are an etailer's best friend ever. Etailers, on the other hand, are everyone's worst friend ever. It might be nice if they could simply be cut out of the high end.
 
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Prices are normal in EU and there are enough cards (though Sapphire custom seems to be in short supply). I'm quite sure that NA prices will drop eventually.
 
WorldExclusive said:
MSRP =/ Actual Retail Price.

The R9 MSRP has remained the same. It's the retailers that are price fixing.
You'll see pricing come down once competition comes from Nv or when lawyers step in.
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Lawyers step in? On what basis? What crime or injustice has been committed for a lawyer to think he can make any thing of off market movement? When the market follows supply and demand it is not price fixing.

Nvidia is changing the way they build video cards because they see AMD making profit by increased sales to a different segment. As they gain parity pricing will reach a equilibrium and competition will begin to put pressure on prices, UNLESS, more people see mining as a viable alternative and keeps the demand higher for both AMD and Nvidia such that neither of them can supply enough cards. Then prices remain high for both. This also is normal economic activity.

MSRP is an artificial number that has no legal basis in a free market economy.
 
Venomous said:
Keep dreaming. So many people have gotten pissed off at AMD not stopping the price gouging that they now walked to Nvidia. Goodluck getting them back because miners in the end don't upgrade cards once their farms are up and running.

AMD may be selling cards, but IMHO, it's to the wrong group of people. I think this will bite AMD in the ass.
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Where does it say the video cards can only be sold to a particular segment of the market? Just because you are angry at AMD for doing what the mission of a corporation is(to create a product that will make money for its stockholders) does not mean people are mad at them. Show me where they intentionally attempted to do anyone harm? AMD does not sell video cards!!! They sell GPU chips.

WHERE ARE THE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS OF PEOPLE NOW DAYS.
 
Tup3x said:
Prices are normal in EU and there are enough cards (though Sapphire custom seems to be in short supply). I'm quite sure that NA prices will drop eventually.
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What you say is valid. Our electricity is much cheaper than the rest of the world. AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, HAVE MORE DISPOSABLE INCOME AND ARE WILLING TO TAKE MORE RISKS. Mining is a very risky venture and for the most part not really profitable with small scale video cards anymore, but people have not found that out yet. A lot of those that have had the small scale operations that are smart are going with dedicated machines that are 2000 times+ more powerful and a lot cheaper to run. In comparison these machines are like using bulldozers to mine while the video card people are using teaspoons. While the initial investment is high, the risk is lower.
 
I love AMD, but I will be focusing on Nvidia as long as these prices are like they are!
 
Dave65 said:
I love AMD, but I will be focusing on Nvidia as long as these prices are like they are!
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I understand your pain. It is not like you can order and get something at will. Times have changed. You just have to basically pre-order from Amazon to get a good price. I pre-ordered 2 ASUS 290X dc2 cards a month ago. I got one today and was just notified the other will be coming tomorrow. I got them at MSRP also $580/each. They also had the DC2 290 for $500. You just have to be diligent.
 
Does anyone know about how long it takes to make your money back and turn a profit?

Bitcoin and its other look alike things wont last long. If it cant be taxed it will be attacked.
 
dandragonrage said:
In other words, I think Bitcoin AND cryptocurrency as a whole would be taken more seriously if stupid crap like DogeCoin didn't exist.
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Dogecoin best coin.

Bitcoin got taken over by day traders and people trying to make money off cryptocurrency. Dogecoin is mostly for people that want to try out mining or trading/buying cryptocurrency without the high cost of entry. It developed a silly community around it, but better a silly one that a serious one that discourages people from getting in on the whole cryptocurrency thing. Also you can no longer cost effectively mine bitcoins. So if you want to mine something it has to be Litecoin or Dogecoin or the other cryptocurrencies. They don't exisit to just make money and day trade between cryptocurrencies, they exisit because people want to mine and experience everything cryptocurrencies have to offer. Also Dogecoin has become somewhat of a tipping currency, which is an internet niche I can easily see taken over by cryptocurrencies.
 
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y0bailey said:
I agree...I was primed to grab a R9 280x awhile back, but waited. Now I am sitting here 4 months later and my jaw has hit the floor. AMD is off my buy list until these prices come back to earth.

Now I am sitting here waiting for Maxwell, and if the same thing happens I am going to be depressed and stuck with my aged 570.

I already think GPU price has gotten out of control prior to this, and now it is becoming ridiculous.

Someone out there is buying them. I am doing rain-dances that the crypto-currency bubble explodes and stays down, and I can finally upgrade my damn video card.
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Why not invest in a mining setup and make some money and buy another card for your gaming setup with the profits.
 
Venomous said:
Keep dreaming. So many people have gotten pissed off at AMD not stopping the price gouging that they now walked to Nvidia. Goodluck getting them back because miners in the end don't upgrade cards once their farms are up and running.

AMD may be selling cards, but IMHO, it's to the wrong group of people. I think this will bite AMD in the ass.
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They sold cards to me, and I haz deepz pocketz
 
PcZac said:
Dogecoin best coin.

Bitcoin got taken over by day traders and people trying to make money off cryptocurrency. Dogecoin is mostly for people that want to try out mining or trading/buying cryptocurrency without the high cost of entry. It developed a silly community around it, but better a silly one that a serious one that discourages people from getting in on the whole cryptocurrency thing. Also you can no long cost effectively mine bitcoins. So if you want to mine something it has to be Litecoin or Dogecoin or the other cryptocurrencies. They don't exisit to just make money and day trade between cryptocurrencies, they exisit because people want to mine and experience everything cryptocurrencies have to offer. Also Dogecoin has become somewhat of a tipping currency, which is an internet niche I can easily see taken over by cryptocurrencies.
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yeah bitcoin is for chumps, asics ruined the game, Dogecoin is where all the real gangsta's are
 
carajean206 said:
Does anyone know about how long it takes to make your money back and turn a profit?

Bitcoin and its other look alike things wont last long. If it cant be taxed it will be attacked.
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There is a finite number of bitcoins. A this point to make a profit you need some heavy duty equipment, rather than a couple of video cards. Tuesday, the 25th I visited a company that made dedicated mining cards/machines. It does 2,000,000 MH/s while the R9 290X does about 890MH/s. Cost of these machines is $6000. Do the math ans see how many video cards, motherboards, & PSU's you would need to accomplish the same thing. Cost per MH/s is more important now than ever.

The down side is that these ASIC based machines are for Bitcoin only so you can not switch over when the bitcoins are all mined out.
 
Is this GPU mining thing going to continue on for a long time? I mean surely there can only be a finite number of crypto currency out there and they will all eventually become too difficult for GPU mining.
 
mi7chy said:
He can follow ShopBLT twitter. They received stock of XFX 280X DD yesterday at $352 without tax and free shipping which works out to ~$30 above MSRP compared to buying elsewhere with tax.
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F shopblt. They're stock system is a total joke. Shit ordered months ago won't ship because it's now discontinued.
 
Hornet said:
Is this GPU mining thing going to continue on for a long time? I mean surely there can only be a finite number of crypto currency out there and they will all eventually become too difficult for GPU mining.
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Difficulty isn't dramatically increasing for some coins. I think GPU mining will continue for a while. If nVidia releases cards that can mine it could double the GPU mining market. Expect a $1000 super mining card.
 
The prices of the 290x are absolutely insane, started at $499, went all the way to $899 on newegg! Just ridiculous the mining is.
 
Looks like gtx760's just got jacked up in price by around 20 bucks. So much for any price drop.

NE only shows 2 GTX660's as well, odd
 
Mining sales means that the next generation of video cards from both companies will be more powerful to attract more sales. I think of mining as our present day Crysis. When that game came out all GPUs at the time choked on it and both companies made a concerted effort to improve their lineup. Both companies wanted the bragging rights to be first to manufacture a card that could conquer the game on max settings.

So even though gamers are inconvenienced at the moment by the shortage of cards, in the end we're going to reap the benefits of new video card technology.
 
My XFX 290DD sucks, but the only thing holding me back from RMA'ing it, is finding something even reference in stock for what I paid.
 
Sodapopjones said:
My XFX 290DD sucks, but the only thing holding me back from RMA'ing it, is finding something even reference in stock for what I paid.
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I had 2 on order from Amazon. I canceled the order after reading about the VRM issue. Fortunately I had 2 ASUS DC2 OC cards on order also which I got this week from Amazon. After I canceled I thought I should have kept the order alive and sold them for a profit. But I do not like selling problems. You have made me feel better, but I am sorry about what you have to live with.
 
cageymaru said:
Mining sales means that the next generation of video cards from both companies will be more powerful to attract more sales.
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I don't think valuable GPU mining of cryptocurrency has a long-enough lifespan to impact any decisions being made for future products or architectures. Not on any meaningful scale, anyway.
 
I also don't think mining will be an indefinite fad. BTC GPU mining became unviable when data centers were built with warehouses full of ASICs doing nothing but mining 24/7, we're talking buildings with 100000+ ASICs. When that happens to scrypt and difficulty levels become ridiculous, the same will happen with scrypt.

Now one can make the argument, "new coins with new algorhythms". But I don't really buy that as being an indefinite thing either. If anything, subsequent new coins have slowly diminished in value with each successive release, with tons of "joke" coins being introduced along the way. A lot of new coins ended up being scams designed to net cash for the creators as well, so it's a definite area of precaution. The major big coins were litecoin , doge, and a few others. Other coins may hit it big, but probably not nearly as big and with worries of scam coins along the way too.

Now when scrypt mining ends is anyones guess. 1 month from now, 2, 3, 6 months, 1 year? Who knows. I just don't feel it's going to be never-ending. People thought GPU BTC mining would never end, and that quickly came to a halt when data centers popped up for BTC mining.
 
when this blows up imagine the price of r9 290x on the used market. I for one am eagerly anticipating the fall of crypto-currencies. or at the very least as mentioned by xoleras the point of inefficiency.
 
wuzupfoo said:
when this blows up imagine the price of r9 290x on the used market. I for one am eagerly anticipating the fall of crypto-currencies. or at the very least as mentioned by xoleras the point of inefficiency.
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Its a shit deal for everyone.
1st you have the miners that have to liquidate their cards because they aren't worth the power they suck for mining anymore.
2nd you have the card buyers who unless are idiots, aren't going to buy cards that have been beat to hell (but undervolted.. becuase that makes it better :rolleyes: )
3rd you have AMD whos going to see a drop in card sales because nobody will buy a new 290 or 390 when the used ones are going so cheap.
 
dandragonrage said:
I

In other words, I think Bitcoin AND cryptocurrency as a whole would be taken more seriously if stupid crap like DogeCoin didn't exist.
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You should do more research before you spout a bunch of crap. Dogecoin has several advantage over Bitcoin for use as an actual currency especially small purchases where I see the true value of crypto (for large purchases I don't see people giving up chargeback, price protection and cashback that CCs offer). 1. There are a buttload more Dogecoins then Bitcoins which means people will rarely if ever have to deal with decimals. Honestly, who the fuck wants do deal with .0005 of a Bitcoin or microbtc or satoshis? Its a needless barrier Dogecoin doesn't have. 2. Dogecoins have confirmation times of under a minute vs over 8 minutes for Bitcoin. I know I wouldn't want to wait close to 10 minutes for a fast food or convenience store payment to clear. 3. Slapping a cute dog on a coin makes it much more approachable to everyone that doesn't fall in the 18-40 yr male demographic. A currency's goal should be to get as many people to use it and accept it as possible. Imo Dogecoin does a better job of that then Bitcoin.
 
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You realize that Doge coin was created as a meme joke right? It was never meant to be taken seriously. But it took off because of word of mouth. But the DOGE current day is not nearly as tantalizing as it once was, not by a long shot.. We all understand alt coins are tied to bitcoin. At least, I hope everyone knows that.

Anyway, joke coin is probably what he meant. There have been many joke coins, like the Kanye coin among others. And many more scam coins. And on that point of doge being designed as a meme joke , he is correct. But strangely enough it took off when it was intro'd.
 
lloose said:
Its a shit deal for everyone.
1st you have the miners that have to liquidate their cards because they aren't worth the power they suck for mining anymore.
2nd you have the card buyers who unless are idiots, aren't going to buy cards that have been beat to hell (but undervolted.. becuase that makes it better :rolleyes: )
3rd you have AMD whos going to see a drop in card sales because nobody will buy a new 290 or 390 when the used ones are going so cheap.
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I see your points, but the way I see it, the new market shouldn't be affected that much maybe im being too optimistic. The main reason is because of point 2, unless they have transferrable warranties those used mining cards are going to tank in value and have no bearing on the new market...

Actually the more I think about it maybe I am being too optimistic.. lol
 
wuzupfoo said:
I see your points, but the way I see it, the new market shouldn't be affected that much maybe im being too optimistic.
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Or if AMD ramps up production of say, the 290x to meet the current demand of miners - possibly diverting resources away from developing newer cards, and then if the coin market tanks for some reason (new laws, lack of faith in currency or exchanges, etc) by the time they catch up with production, the market would soon be flooded with cheap 290x cards (both new and used).

A scenario like that would temporarily be good for us as consumers, but would ultimately hurt AMD, mess up the supply chain, and more than likely delay newer, better cards.
 
You guys can whine all you want about inflated prices, but $5000 in my pocket from selling altcoints/BTC says you guys are the ones missing out. I picked up 7950's at $180 with game packs last fall. They have paid for themselves many times over at this point. At the end of the day supply/demand is king.
 
The tears of those who cry because GPUs are expensive is tasty. Sorry i cant hear you whine over my GPU farm running in the background. Talk shit all you want,ive made a pretty good chunk of change from mining.
 
Just once, it might be nice if every single damn thing didn't turn into an "us and them" scenario.

Apparently that's simply not possible.
 
dandragonrage said:
For the record, I don't think it should be illegal. It's stupid, but the market itself will punish you for wasting your time/electricity, without needing legal punishment.
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If what you say is true -- the crypto world wouldn't have made it past 30-60-90 days once people started getting their electric bills and not having a way to pay them off "for free".

The market itself is rewarding those willing to take a certain level of risk, as a reward they are currently getting a certain level of profit based on their level of number crunching.

I'm always a bit confused... is it people's inability to understand completely how this whole thing works, that people ARE actually making money here. Or is it just the purest form of jealousy and butt-hurt that they weren't the ones taking the risks 6 months or a year ago building a farm, mining a "worthless" coin?

I know it can crash one day, and rise the next. That's one of the risks... my reward though is every month I cash out and get a nice chunk of change for expending effectively zero effort.

It would be like if we saw some guy cash out his life savings, head to vegas and put EVERYTHING on a single roll of the wheel in Roulette, red or black, knowing you have a roughly 50/50 shot at doubling your money. I'd say he was crazy, you probably would too, but there will be someone who actually pulls it off and walks away a rich man. High risk, high reward. Same in the crypto world. I've invested maybe 250 dollars cash into the market, the rest was hardware, profits to buy more hardware, and on and on. I've cashed out to the point of being in the black and still having a ton of hardware left over.


The only thing this mining war is costing me is negative dollars, and positive fun value. There is a smart way to go about even the shittiest of situations in life, as bleak as things look right now I've positioned myself such that the whole thing can implode and I walk away with a smile on my face. The guy that takes out a home equity loan to finance a late-to-the-game mining farm, thats who has a MUCH higher probability of losing it all. You can't fix stupid, in any field.
 
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