Thoughts on 7xx series becoming outdated...

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Sandlotje

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The last time I made a big investment in upgrading my graphics card, I was let down. I had gotten the 7800 GT (from BFG lol) and about a year later, it was already outdated due to the new version of DirectX that was not compatible with my card. So now I want to upgrade again possibly to titans or 780's when they're available. Should I worry about being outdated again as far as software is concerned or not?

I would really appreciate some great input.

7800 GT to GTX 780 lol. Quite a jump.
 
Software-wise, no, DX12 is a long way off at minimum (if it's even made as that), and DX11 still hasn't been truly adopted by most games. You won't need to worry at all for several years at least as far as that goes. :) If you upgrade very rarely (from the sound of it?) the 7xx series or Maxwell (the new nVidia architecture that will be in the following series sometime in the beginning of 2014) are both great points to jump in on and stay with a long while.

EDIT: In response to your quick edit, going from a 7800GT ---> GTX 780, yeah, just a bit of a jump :p. I'd advise just going for the 7xx series once it hits... don't hold out for Maxwell given your situation :D.
 
Great. It was the first and only time I had invested a significant amount of money in upgrading my graphics (to me at least, I was 17 at the time) and a year later I was already outdated. I was so mad when I saw that my card wouldn't be compatible with newer more awesome games -- I had just gotten it to make FEAR and Quake IV look awesome.

Just for info, are the new cards compatible with DX11? And what's the deal with DX12?
 
Sandlotje said:
Great. It was the first and only time I had invested a significant amount of money in upgrading my graphics (to me at least, I was 17 at the time) and a year later I was already outdated. I was so mad when I saw that my card wouldn't be compatible with newer more awesome games -- I had just gotten it to make FEAR and Quake IV look awesome.

Just for info, are the new cards compatible with DX11? And what's the deal with DX12?
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Yipes, that was bad timing :(. All current/new cards are DX11 compatible... DX12 has been said by AMD and Microsoft to be a long ways out (probably years), as DX11 has really shored up the performance tweaks needed and added most API features developers want.
 
Plus you have to figure that the vast majority of everyones focus is on mobile now and making stuff more compatible with lame hardware so I don't think even if there is a DX update that much software will utilize it. How long did it take us just to get DX 11 games in any volume? Do we even have much volume now?
 
Sandlotje said:
The last time I made a big investment in upgrading my graphics card, I was let down. I had gotten the 7800 GT (from BFG lol) and about a year later, it was already outdated due to the new version of DirectX that was not compatible with my card. So now I want to upgrade again possibly to titans or 780's when they're available. Should I worry about being outdated again as far as software is concerned or not?

I would really appreciate some great input.

7800 GT to GTX 780 lol. Quite a jump.
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From DirectX10 on, compatibility has been generally built-in. You can run a DirectX11 game on a DirectX10.1 card for example. The game will be running in DirectX11, using Feature Level 10_1. Similarly, if there is ever a DirectX12 it would likely run directly on current nvidia hardware using Feature Level 11_1.
 
GotNoRice said:
From DirectX10 on, compatibility has been generally built-in. You can run a DirectX11 game on a DirectX10.1 card for example. The game will be running in DirectX11, using Feature Level 10_1. Similarly, if there is ever a DirectX12 it would likely run directly on current nvidia hardware using Feature Level 11_1.
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thats not true for all cases as Crysis 3 is DX11 and requires a DX11 card.
 
The rate of improvements have significantly slowed in the last few years. Things like DX versions are spaced out more, hardware is viable for much longer (a gaming rig from late 2009 is perfectly fine these days), and so on.

I wouldn't worry. Consoles have put a hard limit on graphics in AAA titles, and the most popular PC games are free-to-play titles or MMOs that need to work on lots and lots of hardware (League Of Legends, DOTA 2, WoW). Something like a GTX 770 (supposedly faster than GTX 680 level of performance for less money) will last years.
 
Serpico said:
The rate of improvements have significantly slowed in the last few years. Things like DX versions are spaced out more, hardware is viable for much longer (a gaming rig from late 2009 is perfectly fine these days), and so on.

I wouldn't worry. Consoles have put a hard limit on graphics in AAA titles, and the most popular PC games are free-to-play titles or MMOs that need to work on lots and lots of hardware (League Of Legends, DOTA 2, WoW). Something like a GTX 770 (supposedly faster than GTX 680 level of performance for less money) will last years.
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DX9 lasted for MANY years but DX11 came not long at all after DX10. and if wanting to maintain 60fps with max settings with any really AA then the 680 cant even do that now for some games nevermind do it for years to come.
 
cannondale06 said:
DX9 lasted for MANY years but DX11 came not long at all after DX10. and if wanting to maintain 60fps with max settings with any really AA then the 680 cant even do that now for some games nevermind do it for years to come.
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Because DX10 was lackluster with features as was its half-assed update 10.1. Didn't help that Microsoft completely screwed everyone by forcing them to upgrade to Vista (which sucked at the time) to make use of it. A perfect storm erupted and developers were NOT going to waste their time developing for a dead OS or on a version of DX that was hardly worth the time when DX11 was already in the pipeline and they knew what was coming.

You'll be hard pressed to find any video card that is future proof. Consoles have the luxury of having dedicated hardware for developers, PC's require constant driver updates to get the performance out of your card. What may not do well now, a year from now could probably easily do 60 FPS depending on the game. Your only choice is to stay vigilant with the latest patches/drivers.

You can't go wrong getting a GTX 6xx Series card or a 7xx Series card immediately on launch day going from a 7800 GT card.

Serpico is absolutely right. I was one of those people in 2013 still rocking the GTX 260 and didn't have many issues. Of course I wasn't maxing out everything, but I wasn't playing on the lowest of everything either. Plus coming from the 360 you'd be hard pressed not to play any game with better detail settings on even a much older card than whats available.
 
Usually when a new DX hits, the first cards that support it perform poorly with it in the long run.
 
rudy said:
How long did it take us just to get DX 11 games in any volume? Do we even have much volume now?
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Unfortunately a decent chunk of the PC gaming space is still using Windows XP, so I can see why developers would be dragging their feet.
 
Ummm one point no one asked is: Is your 7800 AGP?? Even if it isn't, it probably would be a worth while investment to get a new rig in general. That comp probablly way out of todays specs. Even a Intel 2500k and decent midrange board and 8GB of ddr3-1600 would be a cheaper/better whole sale change at this point. :eek: Hell get a 650TI boost and it would be an massive upgrade.
 
SnowBeast said:
Ummm one point no one asked is: Is your 7800 AGP??
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He said he had a 7800 GT, those were only produced in PCIe

Gainward produced an AGP "7800 GS" using the same G70 core as the 7800 GT, but I doubt that's what the OP has.
 
Sandlotje said:
The last time I made a big investment in upgrading my graphics card, I was let down. I had gotten the 7800 GT (from BFG lol) and about a year later, it was already outdated due to the new version of DirectX that was not compatible with my card. So now I want to upgrade again possibly to titans or 780's when they're available. Should I worry about being outdated again as far as software is concerned or not?

I would really appreciate some great input.

7800 GT to GTX 780 lol. Quite a jump.
Click to expand...

You have to understand this is how PC gaming works. There will always be something better around the corner. But I don't see a new DirectX 12 showing up anything soon for a few years and it will be a year or so before you can find software that will use DirectX 12.

My next video card upgrade I'm shooting for is a Maxwell titan ;) Go big or go home!
 
DX12 is a LONG WAYS off. Microsoft and AMD have partnered together for the new console that will be detailed in the next few weeks to replace the XBOX360. The games are being moved from a PowerPC architecture (which the 360 and PS3 was based on) to an x86 architecture, that ding ding ding, Windows uses. So finally there is a unified structure that will drive to DX11 porting: New XBOX, New PS4 and Windows Vista/7/8, all sharing the same underlying DX11components. And if you have the hardware, you should be good to go.
 
Disposed said:
Radeon HD 8670 MSE (Micro stutter edition) :p



Its true for all cases except crysis 3.
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well I know there is at least one other game but I cant recall it right now. I remember because AvP was the only game I could run in DX11 with my gtx260 and some other game would not let me run. I am pretty dang sure that I could not run Metro in DX11 with a DX10 card so that might be what I was thinking of. lol that's been so long ago.
 
cannondale06 said:
well I know there is at least one other game but I cant recall it right now. I remember because AvP was the only game I could run in DX11 with my gtx260 and some other game would not let me run. I am pretty dang sure that I could not run Metro in DX11 with a DX10 card so that might be what I was thinking of. lol that's been so long ago.
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Metro 2033 runs on a DX9.0 card im not sure what you are trying to say here.
 
Disposed said:
Metro 2033 runs on a DX9.0 card im not sure what you are trying to say here.
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and so does AvP if you run it in DX9 but you are missing the point. I said that I could run AvP in DX11 on my gtx260 albeit without DX11 features. I could not do that at all in Metro 2033 and had to use DX9 or DX10 only.
 
The Cobra said:
DX12 is a LONG WAYS off. Microsoft and AMD have partnered together for the new console that will be detailed in the next few weeks to replace the XBOX360. The games are being moved from a PowerPC architecture (which the 360 and PS3 was based on) to an x86 architecture, that ding ding ding, Windows uses. So finally there is a unified structure that will drive to DX11 porting: New XBOX, New PS4 and Windows Vista/7/8, all sharing the same underlying DX11components. And if you have the hardware, you should be good to go.
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I don't think PS4 will have anything to do with DirectX, which is MS's proprietary thing. It's probably using OpenGL instead. That said, porting will be easier.
 
Wow, thanks for the fantastic responses everyone. This seems to have stirred up a little debate.


Mr Mean said:
You have to understand this is how PC gaming works. There will always be something better around the corner. But I don't see a new DirectX 12 showing up anything soon for a few years and it will be a year or so before you can find software that will use DirectX 12.

My next video card upgrade I'm shooting for is a Maxwell titan ;) Go big or go home!
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That's what I'm aiming for. My philosophy is very similar to yours.

GoldenTiger said:
Software-wise, no, DX12 is a long way off at minimum (if it's even made as that), and DX11 still hasn't been truly adopted by most games. You won't need to worry at all for several years at least as far as that goes. :) If you upgrade very rarely (from the sound of it?) the 7xx series or Maxwell (the new nVidia architecture that will be in the following series sometime in the beginning of 2014) are both great points to jump in on and stay with a long while.

EDIT: In response to your quick edit, going from a 7800GT ---> GTX 780, yeah, just a bit of a jump :p. I'd advise just going for the 7xx series once it hits... don't hold out for Maxwell given your situation :D.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I haven't read too much about Maxwell, but there's no way I'm holding out that long LOL! Yes I upgrade very rarely in the graphics card department, but at this point I really don't have any options because the 7800GT actually stopped working last week, so I replaced it with a GT 610 "El Cheapo" Edition to hold me over until the 7xx series is released. At this point I'm dying to play games in DX10 like Metro 2033, Crysis, newer Call of Duty's, etc.
 
kasakka said:
I don't think PS4 will have anything to do with DirectX, which is MS's proprietary thing. It's probably using OpenGL instead. That said, porting will be easier.
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True, but there's still something interesting here to take into account: PS4 will be on a DX11.1 -like, equivalent feature level, probably OGL 4.3 or very similar. It's very likely future SW updates will require HW changes, locking out consoles in "the past". What I'm trying to get to here is that, if consoles are locked into DX11.1/OGL 4.3 equivalents, considering their HW isn't that crazy powerful, a 780 will probably last for the lifetime of a PS4 while giving great performance now and pretty decent performance 5 years from now (same reason why some of my friends are playing Borderlands 2 on a 9800GT, a 4 year old card, with no problems at all, though obviously my 470 makes the game smoother and full featured, no doubt about that).

Sandlotje said:
Yeah, I haven't read too much about Maxwell, but there's no way I'm holding out that long LOL! Yes I upgrade very rarely in the graphics card department, but at this point I really don't have any options because the 7800GT actually stopped working last week, so I replaced it with a GT 610 "El Cheapo" Edition to hold me over until the 7xx series is released. At this point I'm dying to play games in DX10 like Metro 2033, Crysis, newer Call of Duty's, etc.
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Yup, considering your old card you probably want to upgrade now... UNLESS you're still happy with the performance you get (I doubt it?) and can manage to wait another year. GPUs probably will step up in performance quite a bit with Maxwell and that will make them live much longer when all games are PS4-generation. However, waiting a year is much easier when you have a 470 like me, in your case... could be painful. Maxwell is pretty interesting, basically what's coming is an architecture where both CPU and GPU can talk to each other pretty much directly sharing the SAME memory space (until now, they have different memories and communicate very differently, which makes "transporting" the dialogue from place to place much slower). By having CPU and GPU share the same memory pool, that should boost performance a pretty good deal, AND is the exact same approach used by AMD for the PS4: more similarities between architectures = more future proof you'll be. After Maxwell we'll have Volta (not until 2016 though, new architectures happen every 2 years) where they'll supposedly put a bunch of Vram and basically "drill" through it to connect all the memory chips, giving some insane bandwidth around 1TBps or something ridiculous like that.
 
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cannondale06 said:
thats not true for all cases as Crysis 3 is DX11 and requires a DX11 card.
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Yeah it's possible for a dev to specifically disable certain feature levels, but I rarely see this other than in cases of laziness or incompetence. I don't deny that it's true for Crysis 3 (never played it) but prior to that the only situation I can recall where a dev specifically disabled certain feature levels was 3dmark11, obviously to keep things apples to apples, and maybe one or two cases where the devs wanted everyone <DX11 to use the a seperate DX9 executable instead (but at least in this case the game still runs).

DirectX11.1 is a strict superset of DirectX11, which is a strict superset of DirectX10.1, which is a strict superset of DirectX10. Compatibility is as simple as shedding the small subset of features that are not supported, made even easier by the established feature levels.

When you consider the percentage of the GPU market that simply uses their onboard Intel IGP, almost all of which are still DirectX10.1 or older, I really feel like DX10 users don't have much to worry about for a while.
 
I'm bummed that my 260 GTX, which is pretty fast, has to run DX9 for games, since DX10.1 was never supported. Speedwise I wouldn't need a new card, but I want DX11.

With the new XBox coming out this Nov, PC graphics will probably see a sudden jump in quality. Presumably the XBox will be DX11, so you won't have to worry about that, but I'd be more concerned about 1GB VRAM cards being inadequate for games designed for the new XBox (which has a lot of VRAM).
 
kasakka said:
I don't think PS4 will have anything to do with DirectX, which is MS's proprietary thing. It's probably using OpenGL instead. That said, porting will be easier.
Click to expand...

Very true...but on the other side of the coin, is that all three platforms will be sharing the same x86 code base for the most part. DX11.1 and OpenGL 4.3 are eerily simular to each other. So the porting should not be too difficult in moving games from one platform to another. AMD scored a coup with this deal from Microsoft and Sony. Now game developers are salivating over systems that will be very simular to each other...plus development costs should be way down as well.
 
i'm sure you'll be very happy if you go ahead with the 7xx after having that 7800GT so long.
 
As Serpico said, were reaching a point where improvements have slowed down. Any card you choose at this point, will be good for years to come.
 
Varmint said:
I'm bummed that my 260 GTX, which is pretty fast, has to run DX9 for games, since DX10.1 was never supported. Speedwise I wouldn't need a new card, but I want DX11.
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The GTX 260 only ever supported DirectX 10.0, not 10.1, nonetheless, a DirectX10.0 card should still be able to run the vast majority of DirectX11 games just fine. This would take place using DirectX11, feature level 10_0.

The fact that you didn't realize this makes me wonder if you ever even tried? You are absolutely not limited to DX9 using a DX10 card except for a very few specific situations.
 
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