Tim Cook Responds to Claims of Factory Worker Mistreatment

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Apple's CEO has responded to a New York Times report on the horrible working conditions at the plants that make its products by saying the cares about every worker in its supply chain. This statement mirrors the one given during all the suicides, the explosion, claims of abuse and the worker revolt and the most recent mass suicide attempts. Heck, they should have this speech memorized by now.

The report also recalls a scenario in which a factory had to call the parents of a young worker to inform them of their son’s admission to the hospital. Horrid points of excessive overtime are included, in addition to a gruesome quote from a former Foxconn executive: “Apple never cared about anything other than increasing product quality and decreasing production cost.” On top of all of that, the report shares word from former Apple executives, such as this quote: “We’ve known about labor abuses in some factories for four years, and they’re still going on.”
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Apple thinks they care, but they really don't do enough to care. If Apple really did want to care, they could dramatically change how electronic manufacturing is done.

The article states that clear towards the end, and they could be like Nike if they wanted to.
 
Keep on [H]ating (and trolling apparently). Obviously it is 100% Apples fault the trouble at Foxconn. Foxconn or China has no responsibility here at all. I think you should immediately stop using your computer, TV, and obviously Andriod phone... because all of those used slave labor as well, but of course, lets look past that so we can get our bashing on. You are all a bunch of whiney hypocrits.
 
txfeinbergs said:
Keep on [H]ating (and trolling apparently). Obviously it is 100% Apples fault the trouble at Foxconn. Foxconn or China has no responsibility here at all. I think you should immediately stop using your computer, TV, and obviously Andriod phone... because all of those used slave labor as well, but of course, lets look past that so we can get our bashing on. You are all a bunch of whiney hypocrits.
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Yeah it is partially their fault. They are one of Foxconn's largest customers. Did you even read the NY Times article, before throwing your accusations? Nope did not think so.. :rolleyes:
 
AthlonXP said:
Of course they care, they care about maximizing their profits!
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Ding! Ding! Ding!

What was it, $36-40b in sales, and $11b in gross profit? The NYT article stated that if they wanted to, could have made more money if they wanted to by pushing more hours at the factory to push out more product to meet the initial demand.
 
txfeinbergs said:
Yes, yes I did, but thanks for asking.
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Apparently you didn't read it throughly. The article never stated it was 100% Apple's fault, because they clearly stated in the beginning of the article, that Foxconn has other huge tech companies making products for them. The article just merely focused on Apple, and what they have done or lack thereof...
 
Correct, but lets look at the title of the article. Lets also look at the forum post by Steve. Does it mention any other company at all? Does Steve's intro quote mention any other company. I think you get my point now??
 
Once again the only reason Steve posted this is because it attempts to show apple in a negative light.

Apple pays Foxconn to make their shit to a certain standard...thats it. Foxconn should care about their employees...even if that is charging apple a higher price...if apple goes elsewhere then so be it.

This is a China and Foxconn problem....nothing do do with apple.

Go on with your hating though...just makes you look ignorant.
 
txfeinbergs said:
Correct, but lets look at the title of the article. Lets also look at the forum post by Steve. Does it mention any other company at all? Does Steve's intro quote mention any other company. I think you get my point now??
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Apparently you also missed this passage of the article:

"In its early days, Apple usually didn’t look beyond its own backyard for manufacturing solutions. A few years after Apple began building the Macintosh in 1983, for instance, Mr. Jobs bragged that it was “a machine that is made in America.” In 1990, while Mr. Jobs was running NeXT, which was eventually bought by Apple, the executive told a reporter that “I’m as proud of the factory as I am of the computer.” As late as 2002, top Apple executives occasionally drove two hours northeast of their headquarters to visit the company’s iMac plant in Elk Grove, Calif.

But by 2004, Apple had largely turned to foreign manufacturing. Guiding that decision was Apple’s operations expert, Timothy D. Cook, who replaced Mr. Jobs as chief executive last August, six weeks before Mr. Jobs’s death. Most other American electronics companies had already gone abroad, and Apple, which at the time was struggling, felt it had to grasp every advantage. "

.... but of course, it is all Apple's fault. Give me a break.
 
Id have much more respect for Apple if they said "its not our fucking job to manage Chinese-run companies."

But what they are doing is pretending to care when anyone with a brain knows they dont.
 
Monkey God said:
Id have much more respect for Apple if they said "its not our fucking job to manage Chinese-run companies."

But what they are doing is pretending to care when anyone with a brain knows they dont.
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Have you found any other company on this earth that has said this? I will wait for your evidence. I actually wish they would say this as well, but there is this thing called PR management. If they said that, can you imagine how many more NY Times articles would get written. Just look at the way our news organizations swarm like vultures anytime they smell blood. This would be like cutting off your arm and spraying blood everywhere.
 
The question though is: Does a US company (Apple) have any legal position to change or improve working conditions in another country (China)?

No.

We have to remember that Apple manufactures the majority of its products through Foxconn for it's iPad and iPhone products, and I think ASUS as well for their laptops and desktop computers. Both companies are based in China with no manufacturing facility in the US.

The one thing I've learned about China is that they will vehemently oppose or retaliate against any US involvement regarding the way China does business and treats its workers in that country. For example, the US figured that China contributes about $700 million dollars worth of pirated media a couple years ago. China threatened the US with something if we did anything to stop it. They'd rather deal with it themselves if they will do anything at all.

Heck, they'd declare war on us if we sold Aegis-equipped cruisers to Taiwan.

So, even if I'm not a fan of Apple products (except for iTunes since I use that a lot), we can't really blame Apple for bad working conditions. I really don't think there is any legal precedent that allows Apple to force Foxconn to improve its working conditions.

The only method I can think of is by playing "fire with fire"-- threaten the company that they'll move manufacturing operations out of Foxconn to another country or even the US (though that would increase price of all things Apple which is already overpriced as it is). Only Foxconn (and to a lesser extent ASUS) has any right to improve conditions for its employees.

The only reason American-based companies move manufacturing jobs for certain parts or entire products is cheap labor. It's the sad reality of it and I wish that wasn't the case. But, when you consider, for example, that California chose to manufacture whole parts of the Oakland Bay Bridge of equivalent strength and quality compared to an American-based company at a fraction of the cost, then there is something wrong there. An American-based company would not have been able to offer the same materials and parts of the bridge at the same price and keep the bridge's construction within the limited budget California set it at. (However, I believe the bridge's budget went up a few times over the course of its construction.)

It's the only reason we can afford much of the things we buy in this country. Our balls, literally, and this economy is being held by a tight grip by China. We do one little thing to threaten or destroy that so-called "relationship" and our economy will go to the crapper, which is already bad enough as it is. Labor is already expensive in this country especially when you consider the threats by Unions that will do anything to keep wages high with full benefits. At the same time, our working conditions are better, improved, and superior than Chinese working conditions.

Unfortunately we pay the price for better working conditions for a higher cost and standard of living. So, until American companies start growing a heart and compassion for unemployed Americans and distressed Chinese employees overseas, then no American company, Apple or other, will give a rat's ass about what the working conditions are in another country. Simply put.

We cannot have better working conditions for Chinese workers even if we had legal right to request it and cheap(er) products at the same time. It's simply not possible given this global economy.

Would you rather pay $599 for an iPad made in China or $1599 made in the US?

Would you rather pay $19 for a pair of jeans made in China or $59 made in the US?

Would you rather pay $26,599 for a sedan from an American car company with parts made in Japan (electronic components) and Mexico, or $52,599 for a sedan from an American car company with all parts manufactured in the US including final assembly?​
Prices are of course exaggerated, but you get the point. I would honestly rather have American-based companies keep manufacturing, production, and final assembly kept within this country just for the simple fact that it will allow more Americans to work, more Americans to pay taxes, and more income to keep this country and the government running.

No matter how much we'd like that to happen, I don't think that'll happen in our lifetime.
 
octoberasian said:
But, when you consider, for example, that California chose to manufacture whole parts of the Oakland Bay Bridge of equivalent strength and quality compared to an American-based company at a fraction of the cost, then there is something wrong there.
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** California chose a Chinese-based company to manufacture parts of the bridge sections rather than US-based company because of costs alone.
 
XvMMvX said:
Once again the only reason Steve posted this is because it attempts to show apple in a negative light.

Apple pays Foxconn to make their shit to a certain standard...thats it. Foxconn should care about their employees...even if that is charging apple a higher price...if apple goes elsewhere then so be it.

This is a China and Foxconn problem....nothing do do with apple.

Go on with your hating though...just makes you look ignorant.
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It's not hating, if I am directly using facts. How about you read the article first.

This is an Apple problem, because they are DIRECTLY involved with the chain/supplier/workers. If their workers are not being treated with respect and dignity with good working conditions, this sheds a negative light at Apple, for not directly taking control of a situation.

This would be no different if you were a big top head manager at a company you represent, and you knowing know that conditions at your manufacturing plant are bad. A big explosion happens, and people die. The manufacturing plant, and your company are held responsible. You give a manufacturing plant money, so you have direct control of the situation.

The thing is, Apple did take actions, but treated as "You have up to 90 days to make changes". That's putting off a problem. Only when they threatened to pull relationship with the plant, that changes would happen sooner.

The big heads at Apple and the chairman's thought it was a waste of time to keep this up, and it was not in their interest to be profitable this way.
 
txfeinbergs said:
Keep on [H]ating (and trolling apparently). <blah, blah ban me for personal insults, blah, blah>. You are all a bunch of whiney hypocrits.
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Okay I understand you are butthurt, but before you get yourself banned, you might want to kill the personal insults / flames.

ON TOPIC: At what point does a company stop with the lame "we love our workers" letters and move on to a new supplier?

After:

a.) being accused of human rights violations
b.) a dozen suicides over several months
c.) installing suicide nets
d.) chemicals that are harmful / toxic to workers
e.) working people to death
f.) explosions that kill / maim your workers
g.) beating / assaulting employees
h.) hundreds threaten suicide for a raise
i.) a dozen major news outlets write articles esposing these conditions in the last two years.

....seriously, each time Apple made a statement like this and then went on with business as usual. Where were the statements BEFORE they were busted for each of the items listed above?

I say "business as usual" because they said they were making "sweeping" changes 2 years ago when the allegations of human rights violations surfaced. They were making changes after the first, second, third, fourth suicide and again after the 5th - 8th. They were "investigating" during the suicide nets, "concerned" about the toxic chemicals, reviewing policies when people died on their shifts, "making every effort" after the explosion and love their workers after the 12th expose' about worker safety.

Obiously any and all efforts made by Apple are not working...so IF YOU REALLY CARE...why stay with that company?

...but we are all a bunch of trolling hypocrites. :rolleyes:
 
Bitch about computer manufacturing employees being underpaid and mistreated
Wear shoes manufactured by a different group of underpaid and mistreated
 
“You can set all the rules you want, but they’re meaningless if you don’t give suppliers enough profit to treat workers well,” said one former Apple executive with firsthand knowledge of the supplier responsibility group. “If you squeeze margins, you’re forcing them to cut safety.”

Wintek is still one of Apple’s most important suppliers. Wintek, in a statement, declined to comment except to say that after the episode, the company took “ample measures” to address the situation and “is committed to ensuring employee welfare and creating a safe and healthy work environment.”

Many major technology companies have worked with factories where conditions are troubling. However, independent monitors and suppliers say some act differently. Executives at multiple suppliers, in interviews, said that Hewlett-Packard and others allowed them slightly more profits and other allowances if they were used to improve worker conditions.

“Our suppliers are very open with us,” said Zoe McMahon, an executive in Hewlett-Packard’s supply chain social and environmental responsibility program. “They let us know when they are struggling to meet our expectations, and that influences our decisions.”
 
It's not hating, if I am directly using facts. How about you read the article first.

This is an Apple problem, because they are DIRECTLY involved with the chain/supplier/workers. If their workers are not being treated with respect and dignity with good working conditions, this sheds a negative light at Apple, for not directly taking control of a situation.

This would be no different if you were a big top head manager at a company you represent, and you knowing know that conditions at your manufacturing plant are bad. A big explosion happens, and people die. The manufacturing plant, and your company are held responsible. You give a manufacturing plant money, so you have direct control of the situation.

The thing is, Apple did take actions, but treated as "You have up to 90 days to make changes". That's putting off a problem. Only when they threatened to pull relationship with the plant, that changes would happen sooner.

The big heads at Apple and the chairman's thought it was a waste of time to keep this up, and it was not in their interest to be profitable this way.
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It is not apple's plant...it is foxconn's. Your post is filled with so much wrong information that is all I am going to address it.

Okay I understand you are butthurt, but before you get yourself banned, you might want to kill the personal insults / flames.

ON TOPIC: At what point does a company stop with the lame "we love our workers" letters and move on to a new supplier?

After:

a.) being accused of human rights violations
b.) a dozen suicides over several months
c.) installing suicide nets
d.) chemicals that are harmful / toxic to workers
e.) working people to death
f.) explosions that kill / maim your workers
g.) beating / assaulting employees
h.) hundreds threaten suicide for a raise
i.) a dozen major news outlets write articles esposing these conditions in the last two years.

....seriously, each time Apple made a statement like this and then went on with business as usual. Where were the statements BEFORE they were busted for each of the items listed above?

I say "business as usual" because they said they were making "sweeping" changes 2 years ago when the allegations of human rights violations surfaced. They were making changes after the first, second, third, fourth suicide and again after the 5th - 8th. They were "investigating" during the suicide nets, "concerned" about the toxic chemicals, reviewing policies when people died on their shifts, "making every effort" after the explosion and love their workers after the 12th expose' about worker safety.

Obiously any and all efforts made by Apple are not working...so IF YOU REALLY CARE...why stay with that company?

...but we are all a bunch of trolling hypocrites.
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Because Apple is Foxconn's only customer right? The problem is you only post about Foxconn when it has to do with Apple...

China sucks for workers, but you try and make it sound like Apple is the only one using them.
 
This question is directed at the Apple Defense Force crying here:

It is generally frowned upon for US textile/shoe like Nike or any other clothing company to use factories in countries that employ workers in sweat shop working conditions. So why are people up in arms when the issue is being raised against Apple?

Why single out Apple and not point the finger at anyone else?

Well in case you haven't noticed, financially Apple is the biggest offender and if you want to raise awareness to the issue and promote change, you put the biggest offender in the spotlight. So quit crying iPod/Pad/Phone/Mac hippies. :rolleyes:
 
XvMMvX said:
It is not apple's plant...it is foxconn's. Your post is filled with so much wrong information that is all I am going to address it.



Because Apple is Foxconn's only customer right? The problem is you only post about Foxconn when it has to do with Apple...

China sucks for workers, but you try and make it sound like Apple is the only one using them.
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Okay, really enough with all this baloney. The article and the repost is directed at what Apple says but does not do. Look, it absolutely is Apple's fault. They share 100% of the blame, one hundred percent. As does any other tech company that spouts about fair working conditions and humane treatment of workers. But it is Apple that has been the most vocal about how they are such a great company, how they are more green, more conscious, more about human rights and the common man than other companies. But time and time again this is proved to be completely false. They are not nearly close to the most green company. Nor do they give as much as other companies, nor do they care more than anyone else about working conditions. They consistently lie out of both side of their mouth.

Apple has a choice, they can have their products manufactured elsewhere. If they really cared about the workers and really cared about making a statement for better rights, then they would manufacture it elsewhere. But they do not. Which makes them supreme hypocrites of their own statements as mentioned by Steve. They already sell overpriced goods compared to the rest of the market, why not at least put some of those profits into moving their manufacturing where workers are treated better? The simple fact? It isn't good for their bottom dollar, and that is all Apple has ever really cared about.

The only misinformation here is how you feel it is okay for Apple to say these things and to continue to manufacture in China with Foxconn.
 
XvMMvX said:
It is not apple's plant...it is foxconn's. Your post is filled with so much wrong information that is all I am going to address it.

Because Apple is Foxconn's only customer right? The problem is you only post about Foxconn when it has to do with Apple...

China sucks for workers, but you try and make it sound like Apple is the only one using them.
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Who is forcing Apple to use this company again?

We are just saying that any ONE of these incidents would have made us switch suppliers.

Apologies and "we love our workers" letters wear thin the 25th time you've heard them in two years...especially when it involves human rights violations and mass suicides.

NoOther said:
Okay, really enough with all this baloney. The article and the repost is directed at what Apple says but does not do.
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^^^ this
 
XvMMvX said:
Because Apple is Foxconn's only customer right?
China sucks for workers, but you try and make it sound like Apple is the only one using them.
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I can't put words into Steve's mouth but I think what he was getting at is that Apple is big enough and powerful enough to force changes or use someone else. They have enough money to build their own factory if they wanted.

No one will argue that China's working conditions don't suck, well at least at Foxconn
 
I can't put words into Steve's mouth but I think what he was getting at is that Apple is big enough and powerful enough to force changes or use someone else. They have enough money to build their own factory if they wanted.
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So is intel...so is GM, so is Ford, so is Walmart, So is Microsoft I could go on and on with american companies that use China.

So Apple should make themselves un-able to compete just for PR...fuck that just fold up shop then...

If you could point to all the other American companies who didn't use China to pad the bottom line and still do well then you would have a point...until then it is just a butthurt nerd witch hunt on a company who figure out how to push certain pieces of tech to the mainstream....and print money doing it.

Everyone on here bitches when a game company or tech manufacturer raises a price or finds another way to get money....then complaines about Apple...double standard.

China and Foxconn should tell apple it will cost this to make your product...we take care of our employees yada yada yada....but they wont because they ALLOW this to happen...they want the business...THEY don't care.
 
Please come forward if you're not as guilty as Apple. Raise your hand if you don't have anything in your household made by Foxconn or from China for that matter.
 
Jospeh said:
They don't care. Why would they?
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Same with the customers that by the products."They don't care. Why would they?" Goes to show Apple consumers are closer to the Chinese way of thinking and how they don't place much value on human lives as long as they get their fill of new toys to play with.
 
Why is this big news?

#1: Apple is held up as the master of the supply chain. They've praised to high heaven on a regular basis, both in the media and in business circles, as having a superior supply chain to anyone else in their industry. They're something to be modeled. You don't get that sort of supply chain by being nice, you get it by being ruthless and forcing all sorts of demands down your supplier's throats if they want to keep your business. The only way to cut costs and raise the amount of product going out the door when you operate a factory is to push your employees a lot harder. Apple wants cheap and fast and is better than anyone else in its industry at getting what it wants. So, yes, when the results of that is suicides, explosions, and so forth ... they're going to get bad press. You can't take the good without the bad. They're praised on the supply chain and dumped on for the deaths. Can't have one without the other.

#2: Apple likes to present a nice, eco-friendly view of its company. It is constantly trying to convince people it is all the things that are nice in the world. It has fashioned a very carefully controlled shell around its company and wants that shell to look sparkly clean. Some companies just largely ignore claims about workers in the factories they contract to. Apple is constantly trying to polish its image to a nice sheen and is going to get attention in the media when it is shown that the shine on the Apple is only skin-deep.

So, suck it up. Apple is going to get bad press for this sort of thing. It gets massive amounts of good press as well so it all balances out in the end. Unless you just don't like hearing anything bad about Apple in which case ... you're on your own.

Oh, and a key element of recognizing when you're being a bit of a fan .... you're usually trying to spread the point around to other companies, not just the one on topic.
 
I like that.

(sic) quote from a former Foxconn executive: &#8220;Apple never cared about anything other than increasing product quality and decreasing production cost.&#8221;

I have a revolutionary and magical idea. Take charge of your own fucking company like you're supposed to, eh Mr. Foxconn executive?

Someone's evading responsibility. I don't care who they sell their products to, Foxconn must take care of Foxconn.

The only way Apple can get out of this mess isn't by sending care packages to Foxconn employees, but by finding another supplier that takes better care of their employees. Guess what? Foxconn will STILL treat their employees like shit when that happens.

With all of the OEM manufacturers using Foxconn to make their hardware, you'd think they'd be rich as fuck and be able to take care of everyone in their company.
 
As the article said, companies like Nike have made great strides in improving conditions and supply-chain issues. The point is, this is a brand identity issue. Apple is a massive brand, like Nike, and as such it matters more to people what their business practices are. In my opinion, that is the way it should be. If you're in the spotlight, you should damn well make sure you make strides to have a squeaky clean operation, and through legitimate means. If Apple wants to claim it's superiority, it should do so in all facets. Writing and publishing reports is one thing, but actually being pro-active in supplier choices and contracts is another, much more important thing.
 
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I have a question on this topic...

Why can't Apple stop using Foxconn?
 
Azhar said:
I like that.

(sic) quote from a former Foxconn executive: “Apple never cared about anything other than increasing product quality and decreasing production cost.”

I have a revolutionary and magical idea. Take charge of your own fucking company like you're supposed to, eh Mr. Foxconn executive?

Someone's evading responsibility. I don't care who they sell their products to, Foxconn must take care of Foxconn.

The only way Apple can get out of this mess isn't by sending care packages to Foxconn employees, but by finding another supplier that takes better care of their employees. Guess what? Foxconn will STILL treat their employees like shit when that happens.

With all of the OEM manufacturers using Foxconn to make their hardware, you'd think they'd be rich as fuck and be able to take care of everyone in their company.
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You're right, Apple could change suppliers. That was one of the points of the article, they don't. Also, they put pressure on Foxconn to meet deadlines and expectations that promote the unsafe conditions and behaviours. It's joint cuplability.
 
The best thing to do would be to immediately repeal all labor regulations so Apple could manufacture their products in the US and take Foxconn out of the equation. Job creators like Apple are so overburdened by the heavy hand of regulation that they've been forced to ship these jobs overseas where they appreciate the rights of shareholders. If US companies did not have to pay exorbitant minimum wages and weren't forced into the added costs of crap like mandated safety glasses, fire extinguishers or break rooms for their sla..employees we might be able to make products in America for Americans.
 
Open up your pc or laptop and you will see this is not apple's problem by foxconns. Apple is getting the blame here but what about the other companies that use them? Oh wait, its cool to hate on anything apple.
 
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