TN(Modern) vs E-IPS vs S-PVA vs S-IPS

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Pastuch

Gawd
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May 13, 2010
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In the last year I have purchased an Asus VW246h (TN), NEC EA231WMi (E-IPS) and a Dell U2311 (E-IPS). I also own a Dell 2005FPW (S-PVA) and I use an HP 2475 (S-IPS) at work.

I have 20/15 vision in both eyes and I'm a picture quality snob. I wish I didn't love video games because finding a monitor that is good for everything is impossible.

Note: I have not calibrated any of the displays tested here. I am ordering an X-Rite I1 Display LT soon.

Picture Quality comparisons:

Asus TN vs Dell and NEC IPS:
I prefer the blacks and contrast on the Asus VW246H (TN) compared to the Dell and NEC E-IPS displays. The Asus has a more life-like 3d image and I was blown away by it immediately. It's easily the best picture quality I have seen on a TN monitor (Yes it still sucks compared to an S-IPS). The E-IPS have good color accuracy and viewing angles. The Anti-glare coating on the NEC was HORRIBLE, the Dell has a much less distracting AG coating. I found very minimal back light bleed on any of the new monitors I have purchased, this was a welcomed surprise. The E-IPS definitely do have color uniformity issues from left to right. The TN does not have that problem. The TN is also more responsive in FPS games and has less ghosting. The difference between the Dell and the Asus was small though (Re: Ghosting). I have yet to try a 120hz monitor so I can't give an opinion there. I honestly think E-IPS is a disappointment and a high quality TN panel can match and/or beat it's performance despite the inherent limitations. It seems like all the new monitors coming out in 2010 have made big improvements in reducing input lag which I think is terrific. Ghosting I can live with but Input lag is just awful. I will be returning the Dell U2311 (Already returned the NEC) even though it has a great stand and excellent user interface because I like the picture quality of the less expensive Asus TN more. If you're hell bent on getting an E-IPS display I would definitely buy the Dell over the NEC. The new 27 inch Asus VE276Q looks really interesting. I would probably buy that or the Dell U2410 depending on your priorities. I'm assuming the Asus VE276Q has a low input lag based on the fact that most Asus monitors have VERY low input lag.

Dell S-PVA vs. HP 2475 vs. E-IPS and Modern TNs.
My much older Dell 2005FPW has good blacks, great contrast and solid color accuracy but it's definitely showing it's age when compared to the modern TNs. When I bought the 2005FPW it absolutely destroyed any TN available at the time but that performance advantage is gone. The Asus TN is comparable to my Dell 2005FPW in every way but it's larger and has less ghosting and less input lag. The S-IPS I use at work is light-years ahead of the E-IPS displays and the Asus TN. The colors, contrast, blacks, and depth are amazing but the response time on my S-IPS is awful which is no surprise. I found both the Dell and the Nec to look very flat (The illusion of 3d) compared to any PVA, S-IPS or even the Asus TN I own. A very good friend of mine has the Dell U2410 and it looks outstanding. Blu-rays are a joy to see on that display. It has a real 3D look to the picture.

Ergonomics:

Dell owns this category. Since the start of LCD production Dell has had the best stands with the most connectivity options and the best user interfaces. My HP 2475 at work is comparable.

NEC has a very good stand with not as much connectivity and the user interface is a bit of a pain in the ass. None of that really matters though, what made me angry was the insanely thick AG coating.

Asus TNs like most TNs have horrible stands. Absolutely no adjust-ability (Tilt doesn't count!). The Asus does have decent connectivity options but the user interface is bad.
 
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Pastuch said:
In the last year I have purchased an Asus VW246h (TN), NEC EA231WMi (E-IPS) and a Dell U2311 (E-IPS). I also own a Dell 2005FPW (S-PVA) and I use an HP 2475 (S-IPS) at work.

I have 20/15 vision in both eyes and I'm a picture quality snob. I wish I didn't love video games because finding a monitor that is good for everything is impossible.

Note: I have not calibrated any of the displays tested here. I am ordering an X-Rite I1 Display LT soon.

Picture Quality comparisons:

Asus TN vs Dell and NEC IPS:
I prefer the blacks and contrast on the Asus VW246H (TN) compared to the Dell and NEC E-IPS displays. The Asus has a more life-like 3d image and I was blown away by it immediately. It's easily the best picture quality I have seen on a TN monitor (Yes it still sucks compared to an S-IPS). The E-IPS have good color accuracy and viewing angles. The Anti-glare coating on the NEC was HORRIBLE, the Dell has a much less distracting AG coating. I found very minimal back light bleed on any of the new monitors I have purchased, this was a welcomed surprise. The E-IPS definitely do have color uniformity issues from left to right. The TN does not have that problem. The TN is also more responsive in FPS games and has less ghosting. The difference between the Dell and the Asus was small though (Re: Ghosting). I have yet to try a 120hz monitor so I can't give an opinion there. I honestly think E-IPS is a disappointment and a high quality TN panel can match and/or beat it's performance despite the inherent limitations. It seems like all the new monitors coming out in 2010 have made big improvements in reducing input lag which I think is terrific. Ghosting I can live with but Input lag is just awful. I will be returning the Dell U2311 (Already returned the NEC) even though it has a great stand and excellent user interface because I like the picture quality of the less expensive Asus TN more. If you're hell bent on getting an E-IPS display I would definitely buy the Dell over the NEC. The new 27 inch Asus VE276Q looks really interesting. I would probably buy that or the Dell U2410 depending on your priorities. I'm assuming the Asus VE276Q has a low input lag based on the fact that most Asus monitors have VERY low input lag.

Dell S-PVA vs. HP 2475 vs. E-IPS and Modern TNs.
My much older Dell 2005FPW has good blacks, great contrast and solid color accuracy but it's definitely showing it's age when compared to the modern TNs. When I bought the 2005FPW it absolutely destroyed any TN available at the time but that performance advantage is gone. The Asus TN is comparable to my Dell 2005FPW in every way but it's larger and has less ghosting and less input lag. The S-IPS I use at work is light-years ahead of the E-IPS displays and the Asus TN. The colors, contrast, blacks, and depth are amazing but the response time on my S-IPS is awful which is no surprise. I found both the Dell and the Nec to look very flat (The illusion of 3d) compared to any PVA, S-IPS or even the Asus TN I own. A very good friend of mine has the Dell U2410 and it looks outstanding. Blu-rays are a joy to see on that display. It has a real 3D look to the picture.

Ergonomics:

Dell owns this category. Since the start of LCD production Dell has had the best stands with the most connectivity options and the best user interfaces. My HP 2475 at work is comparable.

NEC has a very good stand with not as much connectivity and the user interface is a bit of a pain in the ass. None of that really matters though, what made me angry was the insanely thick AG coating.

Asus TNs like most TNs have horrible stands. Absolutely no adjust-ability (Tilt doesn't count!). The Asus does have decent connectivity options but the user interface is bad.
Click to expand...

The NEC PA241W has better screen uniformity than those and better blacks and contrast ratio than the Dell U2410 (which is kind of poor in that regard). It's wide gamut but has an awesome sRGB emulation mode that is closer to sRGB than almost all sRGB monitors. 14bit 3D LUT, etc. It does have IPS wash on blacks though and the typical only merely very average black depth (although it's good for an IPS). true 10-bit p-IPS screen.

The Eizo 2333 S-PVA has by far the deepest blacks and best contrast ratio, right up there with the Samsung 23" (but has much better everything else aside perhaps motion handling though, perhaps that kills it for gaming???)


Lots of monitors do have horrifically thick AG coatings yeah.

That probe you are thinking of getting will NOT work properly with your HP 2475 wide gamut.
 
monitorrat said:
The NEC PA241W has better screen uniformity than those and better blacks and contrast ratio than the Dell U2410 (which is kind of poor in that regard). It's wide gamut but has an awesome sRGB emulation mode that is closer to sRGB than almost all sRGB monitors. 14bit 3D LUT, etc. It does have IPS wash on blacks though and the typical only merely very average black depth (although it's good for an IPS). true 10-bit p-IPS screen.

The Eizo 2333 S-PVA has by far the deepest blacks and best contrast ratio, right up there with the Samsung 23" (but has much better everything else aside perhaps motion handling though, perhaps that kills it for gaming???)


Lots of monitors do have horrifically thick AG coatings yeah.

That probe you are thinking of getting will NOT work properly with your HP 2475 wide gamut.
Click to expand...
I just checked the price on that nec, maybe I'm missing something but that monitor is over 1k on all the sites I saw?
 
munkle said:
I just checked the price on that nec, maybe I'm missing something but that monitor is over 1k on all the sites I saw?
Click to expand...


if you put it in the cart at B&H it drops to $899 (still not exactly inexpensive though, a pro wide-gamut monitor)

the eizo 2333 is 1080p, sRGB gamut and $599 (not cheap either for a 23" standard gamut, also a pro-type)
 
Even the $1000 NEC has poor motion response and I have no idea if it has low Input lag which is critical to my purchasing decision.

I wish I could buy a DLP or plasma computer monitor. LCD sucks.

My Benq W5000 projector has spectacular picture quality. Even at 118 inches, I used it as my primary computer monitor for three months but I go through too many bulb hours. $400 per bulb... The Benq does have some input lag though so even it wasn't perfect. Amazing motion response. No tearing or ghosting.

The 2475 doesn't need calibration, it's the work PC.
 
Pastuch said:
In the last year I have purchased an Asus VW246h (TN), NEC EA231WMi (E-IPS) and a Dell U2311 (E-IPS). I also own a Dell 2005FPW (S-PVA) and I use an HP 2475 (S-IPS) at work.

I have 20/15 vision in both eyes and I'm a picture quality snob. I wish I didn't love video games because finding a monitor that is good for everything is impossible.

Note: I have not calibrated any of the displays tested here. I am ordering an X-Rite I1 Display LT soon.

Picture Quality comparisons:

Asus TN vs Dell and NEC IPS:
I prefer the blacks and contrast on the Asus VW246H (TN) compared to the Dell and NEC E-IPS displays. The Asus has a more life-like 3d image and I was blown away by it immediately. It's easily the best picture quality I have seen on a TN monitor (Yes it still sucks compared to an S-IPS). The E-IPS have good color accuracy and viewing angles. The Anti-glare coating on the NEC was HORRIBLE, the Dell has a much less distracting AG coating. I found very minimal back light bleed on any of the new monitors I have purchased, this was a welcomed surprise. The E-IPS definitely do have color uniformity issues from left to right. The TN does not have that problem. The TN is also more responsive in FPS games and has less ghosting. The difference between the Dell and the Asus was small though (Re: Ghosting). I have yet to try a 120hz monitor so I can't give an opinion there. I honestly think E-IPS is a disappointment and a high quality TN panel can match and/or beat it's performance despite the inherent limitations. It seems like all the new monitors coming out in 2010 have made big improvements in reducing input lag which I think is terrific. Ghosting I can live with but Input lag is just awful. I will be returning the Dell U2311 (Already returned the NEC) even though it has a great stand and excellent user interface because I like the picture quality of the less expensive Asus TN more. If you're hell bent on getting an E-IPS display I would definitely buy the Dell over the NEC. The new 27 inch Asus VE276Q looks really interesting. I would probably buy that or the Dell U2410 depending on your priorities. I'm assuming the Asus VE276Q has a low input lag based on the fact that most Asus monitors have VERY low input lag.

Dell S-PVA vs. HP 2475 vs. E-IPS and Modern TNs.
My much older Dell 2005FPW has good blacks, great contrast and solid color accuracy but it's definitely showing it's age when compared to the modern TNs. When I bought the 2005FPW it absolutely destroyed any TN available at the time but that performance advantage is gone. The Asus TN is comparable to my Dell 2005FPW in every way but it's larger and has less ghosting and less input lag. The S-IPS I use at work is light-years ahead of the E-IPS displays and the Asus TN. The colors, contrast, blacks, and depth are amazing but the response time on my S-IPS is awful which is no surprise. I found both the Dell and the Nec to look very flat (The illusion of 3d) compared to any PVA, S-IPS or even the Asus TN I own. A very good friend of mine has the Dell U2410 and it looks outstanding. Blu-rays are a joy to see on that display. It has a real 3D look to the picture.

Ergonomics:

Dell owns this category. Since the start of LCD production Dell has had the best stands with the most connectivity options and the best user interfaces. My HP 2475 at work is comparable.

NEC has a very good stand with not as much connectivity and the user interface is a bit of a pain in the ass. None of that really matters though, what made me angry was the insanely thick AG coating.

Asus TNs like most TNs have horrible stands. Absolutely no adjust-ability (Tilt doesn't count!). The Asus does have decent connectivity options but the user interface is bad.
Click to expand...



What is your question?
 
I couldn't help but grunt when I read that you listed the 2005FPW (which I own and am using) as an S-PVA (yuck). It is widely known that it is an S-IPS, tyvm :)

But like you, I am in the same boat and find it increasingly difficult to find a new monitor to "upgrade." I've gone thru similar LCD's and have also come away disappointed. I was thinking of splooging extra dough on the NEC 2490 (but deal w/ possibly higher blurring/input lag) or the similar Planar PX2611W (very hard to find + still expensive). Have you yourself thought about either? Seems like if you want halfway decent quality out of an LCD, you gotta spend the extra dough.
 
He might have listed it wrong, but his impressions of the 2005 are spot-on... it's still a good monitor, but it doesn't compare well to modern monitors even if it's still S-IPS.
 
One of the big improvements to TNs is hifrc dithering. If you notice a few years ago why TNs were basically being listed as 16.2m colors as opposed to what is common now 16.7m.

I disagree with the assessment towards e-ips though. As far as I know the main benefits promised by e-ips were contrast, price, and efficiency. As far as I know comparatively speaking, it really is a huge step up in those areas compared to previous ips screens. While from a pure quality stand point it won't strike anyone as the next leap forward, but bringing ips technology down to the price point of TNs is amazing.
 
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Pastuch said:
I wish I could buy a DLP or plasma computer monitor. LCD sucks.
Click to expand...

DLP text sharpness is very poor and the DLP industry seems to be in serious decline.

Whenever the subject of plasma monitors is brought up here, a fight breaks out between those claiming they suffer badly from burn-in and those claiming that problem has been fixed; meanwhile, there are no plasma monitors and the plasma TV industry is also in serious decline.
 
As far as know, plasmas can't be made smaller than like 30-40 inches. Good luck entering the PC market with that limitation.
 
This makes no sense. I bought the NEC EA231WMi based on reports that said it had LESS AG coating than the U2311h, not MORE. Now you will have me buying a U2311h as well to compare. If you are wasting my time, I am going to publicly ridicule you. :) Also, I don't understand how you can be saying that a TN panel has better PQ than eIPS. I seriously don't think you know what you're looking at. I have a top rated TN panel right here (FHD2400), next to the EA231WMi, and the latter has so much better overall PQ in terms of color accuracy, contrast and gradients, that it makes the TN panel look like a toddler's toy.
 
Pastuch said:
Even the $1000 NEC has poor motion response and I have no idea if it has low Input lag which is critical to my purchasing decision.

I wish I could buy a DLP or plasma computer monitor. LCD sucks.

My Benq W5000 projector has spectacular picture quality. Even at 118 inches, I used it as my primary computer monitor for three months but I go through too many bulb hours. $400 per bulb... The Benq does have some input lag though so even it wasn't perfect. Amazing motion response. No tearing or ghosting.

The 2475 doesn't need calibration, it's the work PC.
Click to expand...

the lag doesn't seem too bad to me on the PA241W, although i'm all that much of a twitch FPS player. It's certainly far better than my samsung hdtv in regular mode, where even controlling the mouse is a little off. I'm sure it doesn't come close to a pure gaming LCD though.
 
I'll toss in a response since I own the Asus VK246H. Similar to the VM246H, but it has a built-in webcam.

The primary purpose of it is to be used as a secondary display connected to my HTPC; my LG 47LH90 HDTV being the primary display. Mostly used to simply monitor some video encoding processes. Purchased it back in Dec 2008 when there were no reviews of it. Unlike purchasing my NEC LCD2690WUXi and Planar PX2611w monitor which I've spent months doing research for each.

My VK246H has some minor issues with blacklight bleeding at the bottom; basically two bluish dots that were more not noticeable unless on a black background or in Fallout 3. I didn't notice it in Far Cry, and I was looking for it. Blacks were okay; it didn't blow me away. This (and the VW246H) turns out to be a pretty good gaming monitor because it has been tested to have about 2ms of input lag; www.prad.de.

Here's my extensive review; if interested:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/54250-3-asus-vk246h-review-final-update

Overall, a good TN panel monitor for the average consumer. Based on my limited testing, it only really failed with Batman the Dark Knight DVD. There were a lot of visual artifacts (see review). I will give the Asus VK246H the benefit of the doubt though since the Dark Knight was a long movie and compressing such a long movie onto a DVD is bound to give visual artifacts. I do not have a Blu-Ray player so I didn't test the Blu-Ray version of the Dark Knight.

As far as an H-IPS gaming monitor, the Planar 2611w is excellent since it has been tested to have less than 8ms of input lag by ToastyX. Colors are great and no backlight bleeding.
 
StaticSurge said:
Jackass response FTW

Just because he doesn't kiss NECs ass doesn't mean you can be a dick.
Click to expand...

That is just his style, get used to it. Besides he has a good point. Why do we need a noobie telling us that so caled modern TN panels are the best way to go? They are not. they are the cheepest way to go with the worst picture quality and viewing angles.

Some of us use computers for more than just gaming on a budget.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
That is just his style, get used to it. Besides he has a good point. Why do we need a noobie telling us that so caled modern TN panels are the best way to go? They are not. they are the cheepest way to go with the worst picture quality and viewing angles.

Some of us use computers for more than just gaming on a budget.

Dave
Click to expand...

I enjoy reading people's thoughts and opinions on monitor technologies. I just wish other people, especially planning purchasers, would spend time doing their own research in order to be able to handle these opinions with literacy.
 
XMonkey-v2.0 said:
He might have listed it wrong, but his impressions of the 2005 are spot-on... it's still a good monitor, but it doesn't compare well to modern monitors even if it's still S-IPS.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I honestly thought my 2005FPW (which I hardly use anymore) was a PVA. Thanks for correcting me. I would rather have any monitor I have tried in the last year (including TNs) over the 2005fpw. It hasn't aged well.

I had the exact same opinion of TN panels as the rest of you until I actually tried one of the newer Asus models and compared it to the new E-IPS displays. To clarify, I don't think TN is the next big thing, I just think E-IPS is CRAP when compared to newer H-IPS displays. If your asking me which $300 display would I buy, I can definitely say I would NOT buy an E-IPS. The picture quality is so similar to the TN I have and you loose response rate and display size. You can get the new Asus 27 inch TN for $340 or the NEC EA231 for $330. 4 extra inches is a lot! Now if you add the HP ZR24W to the mix and the Dell U2410 (On sale) then it gets more complicated. If I wasn't restricted to a 1080P display (For mirroring my Projector) then I would have probably bought the HP ZR24. E-IPS displays shouldn't have the backlighting or color banding problems that they do. Not to mention the HORRIBLE AG coating on some of them.

I also find a lot of the comments here pretty insulting. I spent $600 on my Dell 2005FPW 6 years ago when I made a lot less money than I do now. I am not restricted to budget monitors! I am restricted to a 1080P display for mirroring so I have to stick with that resolution.
 
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Pastuch said:
CRAP[/B] when compared to newer S-IPS displays.
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Your post does not make sense because firstly, S-IPS panels that are in production are restricted to legacy 2007FP type models and even rarer SVA-NEC productions. Secondly, the LP2475w and ea23/u23 are both H-IPS monitors, a tech that has undergone considerable revision (~60 watts in the 2209WA to ~30 watts in the U2311H).

You know as little about IPS as you do about PVA.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Your post does not make sense because firstly, S-IPS panels that are in production are restricted to legacy 2007FP type models and even rarer SVA-NEC productions. Secondly, the LP2475w and ea23/u23 are both H-IPS monitors, a tech that has undergone considerable revision (~60 watts in the 2209WA to ~30 watts in the U2311H).

You know as little about IPS as you do about PVA.
Click to expand...

The EA231 and U2311 are NOT H-IPS. I'm hating on the E-IPS displays.

The LP2475, Dell U2410, and and HPzr24 are H-IPS.

The U2311, 2209WA and EA231 are E-IPS.

Who the hell cares how many watts they consume?

P.S. Thanks for insulting me with your reply. You're a real gentleman.
 
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Whoisthisreally said:
I enjoy reading people's thoughts and opinions on monitor technologies. I just wish other people, especially planning purchasers, would spend time doing their own research in order to be able to handle these opinions with literacy.
Click to expand...

Yeah; it really bugs me when people state their opinion as if it is fact. as you say, if you want to state something as fact you have to do the research first.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
Yeah; it really bugs me when people state their opinion as if it is fact. as you say, if you want to state something as fact you have to do the research first.

Dave
Click to expand...

Why do you have to sign each post? Your handle is RIGHT THERE!
 
Pastuch said:
The EA231 and U2311 are NOT H-IPS. I'm hating on the E-IPS displays.

The LP2475, Dell U2410, and and HPzr24 are H-IPS.

The U2311, 2209WA and EA231 are E-IPS.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between E-IPS and H-IPS?

Who the hell cares how many watts they consume?
Click to expand...
People interested in how technology works?

P.S. Thanks for insulting me with your reply. You're a real gentleman.
Click to expand...
It wasn't an insult by either intent or reading. Should I have to use an I- statement in order to communicate the same message?
 
Pastuch, my NEC EA231WMi does not suffer from any backlight bleed or banding issues, and the AG coat is WAY less severe than the H-IPS based LP2475w. No reason to hate E-IPS. In my experience, it just as good as H-IPS. In fact, I think the white glow is less.

"I just think E-IPS is CRAP when compared to newer H-IPS displays"

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Sorry. E-IPS and H-IPS are identical to the naked eye. And I don't care what they did to the Asus TN panel, it is still going to have vertical color and contrast shift up the wazoo which the E-IPS displays have NONE of.
 
I sort of share some of OP's feelings on this; I have side by side a Syncmaster 204B (TN) and NEC EA231wmi (E-IPS). Both are calibrated and I cannot tell the difference in color. The viewing angle on my TN is 170H and 160V; I really have to stand up from my chair to notice a difference. I think the statement "e-IPS is far superior to TN" is overrated. From my personal experience, besides viewing angles, I cant find the NEC any better....and let's not forget the poor response time on NEC when compared to a good TN. If you currently own a good TN, I doubt you'll see a big advantage going to an E-IPS. Just my $.02. :cool:
 
charlywiggin said:
I sort of share some of OP's feelings on this; I have side by side a Syncmaster 204B (TN) and NEC EA231wmi (E-IPS). Both are calibrated and I cannot tell the difference in color. The viewing angle on my TN is 170H and 160V; I really have to stand up from my chair to notice a difference. I think the statement "e-IPS is far superior to TN" is overrated. From my personal experience, besides viewing angles, I cant find the NEC any better....and let's not forget the poor response time on NEC when compared to a good TN. If you currently own a good TN, I doubt you'll see a big advantage going to an E-IPS. Just my $.02. :cool:
Click to expand...

Do you game on your NEC? And do you see ghosting when and if you do?
 
I've tried gaming on both TN and NEC. I seem to do better (higher scores) on TN in online FPS compared to NEC. NEC doesnt have any ghosting but suffers from response time (no overdrive). TN is the way to go for online FPS.
 
Went to a friends place this weekend. He has the Samsung F2380 and I have to say I was shocked at how good the blacks and contrast were. Maybe I'll try the new Benq VA panel next.
 
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