TO ALL GF6800 AGP owners

cmacclel said:
5% LESS Huh are you even reading the same thread??? I havent installed me 6800GT as of yet but my Radeon 9800 and AMD 64 3000+ averages out at 40% Cpu utilization on the Step into Liquid clip. People with faster processors than me with the 6800 series cards are getting 100% and are skipping frames!!

Mac
Click to expand...
Well I actually read the whole thread. The 5% number was from anandtech's review of the 6800 Ultra. Yes it was something very marginal. I just ran th 1080p sil video and I seem to be averaging about 80% or so. It is suprisingly high. I may have just become a critic of nvidia if the numbers other people are quoting are true.

My specs are A64 3400+
Old BFG 6800 GT
lots of ram
 
For some reference, without video decode acceleration,
AMD XP 32-bit cpus require at least the 3200+ to play the Step Into Liquid 1080p video with minimal frames dropped. There will probably still be some dropped frames and nearly 100% cpu throughout.
AMD Athlon 64 cpus should all be able to handle it without dropped frames, but the 3000+ should give around 80-90% cpu usage (maybe more).
Pentium 4 CPUs with HT should all be able to handle it except maybe the 2.4 GHz ones. With HT, most people don't go above 60%.
Pentium 4 CPUs without HT should be able to handle it at 3.0 GHz without dropped frames.
These all assume fastwrites is turned ON for the video card. Some people say it makes a difference with it on/off.
 
66.81.

Do people with 66.93 drivers still get dropped frames?

Do athlon64 2800+ boxes drop frames? Maybe thats what I should make my htpc out of.

Edit: With my opteron150
on 64-bit xp (with the 61.76) and wm9, both T2 and SiL crashed media player.

With the new drivers (66.96) it plays, but I believe the player is running in 32-bit mode. It's listed in task manager as wmplayer.exe*32.. cpu usage is the same as 32-bit.

on 32-bit xp I was getting 64-83% cpu usage usually hovering around mid 70's. 66.93 drivers.

Rob
 
Just got my BFG 6800 OC the other day. I got it to play games which it does quite well. I am interested in the whole video encode/decode functions as well though. I went to download the SiL clip to test and noticed that it requires WinXP to play. Since I run Win2K, I was wondering if there was any workaround so that I could play this too?
 
I would like to correct my previous post. I ran Step Into Liquid and my cpu utilization runs about 70-75%, when I ran the T2 video it was around 55%.Both are 1080p but it looks like the T2 video requires less to run it which I don't understand, but that's fine. Either way regardless I'm not dropping frames. But I'm sure I would if I was running other tasks in the background. Check this out:

hidefcpu.jpg
 
Just ran the T2 movie and my cpu usage was around 90/100% and the video played really badly. But hey what else do you expect from nVidia İve been listening theır bull**** since geforce 2.BTW İ have a geforce 6800gt . :rolleyes:
 
Ok now, just for comparison, I ran the same HD videos with my 9800 Pro AIW card and CPU utilization was exactly the same, the higher part of the graph is the run with Step Into Liquid and the end is T2. Utilization was about the same as the 6800.

9800prohidef.jpg


Now, just reading the Nvidia site and they say for the 6800 series they support WMV9 and MPEG4. These videos from MS's site are WMV10 which these cards don't officially support. But I did see this lower down on the page:

NVIDIA PureVideo Technology
The combination of the GeForce 6 Series GPUs’ high-definition video processor and NVIDIA video decode software delivers unprecedented HD video, stunning picture clarity, smooth video, accurate color, and precise image scaling for all video content to turn your PC into a high-end home theater.

But do you need to use their software to make use of this? If so that would be a major scam.
 
Actually, I'm wrong those videos are WMV9. And they can be found here. And I just used Windows Media Player. Although they can be played with PowerDVD also or any other dvd player I would assume.

So what we can assume from this then is that nvidia claims to support hardware acceleration for a format and it doesn't work, Unless the 9800 pro also supports WMV9 acceleration and if it does then seeing no difference in cpu utilization between the two cards would suggest it's does work. According to ATI's site: All-format DTV/HDTV decoding - is supported for the 9800 Pro line. Sooooo... Is HD decoding broken on the 6800? Hard to say.
 
MadMikeSS said:
Actually, I'm wrong those videos are WMV9. And they can be found here. And I just used Windows Media Player. Although they can be played with PowerDVD also or any other dvd player I would assume.

So what we can assume from this then is that nvidia claims to support hardware acceleration for a format and it doesn't work, Unless the 9800 pro also supports WMV9 acceleration and if it does then seeing no difference in cpu utilization between the two cards would suggest it's does work. According to ATI's site: All-format DTV/HDTV decoding - is supported for the 9800 Pro line. Sooooo... Is HD decoding broken on the 6800? Hard to say.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there isn't a new WMV10 codec, windows media player 10 is just a new player, their newest codec is still WMV9 I believe. I'm not sure what ATI's All-format DTV/HDTV means, but most DTV/HDTV formats are mpeg based. Notice the TV in those formats. WMV9 HD is not used in TV transmissions, only on DVDs so far.
 
Well, I didn't say that the 9800 Pro definitely can decode WMV9 HD. Their specs don't list that as a supported format. And if that's the case and playback of WMV9 on the 6800 and 9800 Pro results in the same cpu utilization then it would be safe to say that it's true that that feature on the 6800 series is indeed broken/not active. And I'm using the most current NV drivers.HD is not particularly important to me at this time but perhaps in the future it might be and I think that a change of video card would be warranted if the issue is not fixed. If it's hardware then Nvidia needs to do the right thing and at the very least refund or replace the cards for those who want the HD capability from WMV9 since it's supposed to be supported. Just my .02.
 
Could I get some clarification on a point?

From what I understand....the problem is that the 6800-series cards cannot 'accelerate' WMV HD files, correct? But, it *does* accelerate MPEG file, just not WMV?

Now, here is my question - where does everyone get off saying THAT is a broken feature?

Even from the press "launch" materials - see Anandtech's article, it was never stated that it COULD accelerate WMV HD. All it lists is:
We don't have anything to test this thing with right now, but there is a whole lot this thing can do, including inverse 3:2 pulldown (conversion from interlaced TV format to progressive format better suited to computer monitors), colorspace conversion, gamma correction, MPEG 2 MPEG 4 WMV9 DiVX decoding and encoding, scaling, frame rate conversion, and anything else you'd like it to do for you.
Click to expand...
As far as I know....all THOSE things work with the current cards and current drivers, no?

Keep in mind that regular WMV9, WMV9 Divx, and WMV9 HD are three different things - I have not *actually* seen any reference to the 6800s being expected to support WMV HD (aside from Anandtech's "what happened" article on the 6600 - where they get several facts wrong, so I'm not inclined to trust their scare-mongering on that point).

I mean, don't get me wrong - when I buy my next 6x00-series card, it'll be one with the HD decoding WORKING, as that is a VERY important feature to me....I just don't see where they said it would be on the 6800s, though.
 
Well, I'm having someone try the same video out with his X800XT to see if his results are the same or not. We should get a clearer idea then. He's running nearly the same system as me with the exception of a Winchester 3200+ on the same board and same amount of ram.

His system clock is 2.5GHz (278x9) with an X800XT and his Average CPU utilization with Step Into Liquid is ~50%. So the theory about WMV9 HD not necessarily being supported for hardware acceleration on any card might be valid and this whole discussion is moot. :)
 
Let's not forget that nVidia also makes you pay $20 for their DVD Decoder.

Not TOO relevant, but it is a slight extra kick in the balls seeing as how their shit is broken in the first place.
 
mndeg said:
25-30% usage on geforce 6800 GTO (pci-e)
Click to expand...

that's the lowest I've seen in this thread, including ATI cards

interesting, how could PCI-E affect this?
 
finalgt said:
Let's not forget that nVidia also makes you pay $20 for their DVD Decoder.

Not TOO relevant, but it is a slight extra kick in the balls seeing as how their shit is broken in the first place.
Click to expand...
If their DVD decoder accelerates only DVD decompression, I don't think anyone should really care. DVD decoding takes like 10% on most CPUs. It is nothing that intensive.
 
Staples said:
If their DVD decoder accelerates only DVD decompression, I don't think anyone should really care. DVD decoding takes like 10% on most CPUs. It is nothing that intensive.
Click to expand...

Right, but they claim MPEG-2 acceleration on the box. It's just one of those things that people should remember if they're going to bitch about "false advertising."
 
finalgt said:
Right, but they claim MPEG-2 acceleration on the box. It's just one of those things that people should remember if they're going to bitch about "false advertising."
Click to expand...
Ummmm....yeah, but it does MPEG acceleration just fine.

It's only WMV HD acceleration that it can't do - and I've not seen any evidence that nVidia EVER advertised that feature for the 6800.

6600, sure - and it works on that card. Heck, it even works on the 6800 with the right drivers (65.75)! But I've never seen it advertised for those models.
 
dderidex said:
Ummmm....yeah, but it does MPEG acceleration just fine.

It's only WMV HD acceleration that it can't do - and I've not seen any evidence that nVidia EVER advertised that feature for the 6800.

6600, sure - and it works on that card. Heck, it even works on the 6800 with the right drivers (65.75)! But I've never seen it advertised for those models.
Click to expand...

Go to nVidia's website and read their PR documents in .PDF format. They advertise WMV hardware decode acceleration for the GeForce 6 Series. Last I checked, that includes all cards from the 6200 to the 6800 Ultra.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_16823.html
 
LoneWolf said:
Go to nVidia's website and read their PR documents in .PDF format. They advertise WMV hardware decode acceleration for the GeForce 6 Series. Last I checked, that includes all cards from the 6200 to the 6800 Ultra.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_16823.html
Click to expand...
Yes, and it can do WMV acceleration just fine, too.

Note I said WMV *HD* - that's a different format than regular WMV. And I've never seen WMV *HD* advertised for anything but the 6600s.
 
Isn't WMV9 HD just wmv at a particular resolution? If it's not, PLEASE post a link. By reading that it does WMV9 You'd think it would accelerate ALL WMV9 at ANY resolution.

Rob
 
Robstar said:
Isn't WMV9 HD just wmv at a particular resolution? If it's not, PLEASE post a link. By reading that it does WMV9 You'd think it would accelerate ALL WMV9 at ANY resolution.

Rob
Click to expand...
Link

It's basically just a different CODEC and compression algorithm.
 
GOD DAMN MONGORIANS (read Mongolians)!!! The video processor doesn't work. They were supposed to have it inside the core, whereas ATI has it on a separate chip. So for them to fix it would be pretty expensive. If anything, they should slip a note in the box or throw a sticker on it saying the VIVO feature does not work.
 
dderidex, I skimmed that page really quickly and did a page search for "HD" and I still didn't see how wmv9 HD is different than "WMV". Why might they be accelerated differently?

Rob
 
Is there any way we can get the [H] editors in on talking to nvidia about this issue?

Rob
 
starhawk said:
Listen to this one:

The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986, 18 U.S.C. Section 1030-
http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001030----000-.html

I think you will find that we have definite proof that nVIDIA did something illegal.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for not being up on my legal-speak, but That document only talks about someone trying to access a computer illegally. I don't see anything in that that mentions anything about false advertising, which is what this is all about.
 
:D wh00ps... shoulda read the d*** thing first.

i'm a bit busy right now but if there's a lawyer around, would they mind rustling up the advertising fraud law? if you only have the citation, that's fine. i can get the rest.
 
King Pariah> Thats all fine and dandy, but what about those of us who bought our cards 6 months ago? I don't think that is going to fly with retailers.

Rob
 
Can we get the hard editors to push this issue with nvidia ?

Have they already, and I missed it ?

Rob
 
I certainly see nothing to get bent out of shape about. My card works fine. I can play movies and do anything I could ever want to do with my card. So therefore I don't really care.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
I certainly see nothing to get bent out of shape about. My card works fine. I can play movies and do anything I could ever want to do with my card. So therefore I don't really care.
Click to expand...

that's how I feel

if there was big difference compared to ATI cards, I might feel differently, but from what I've seen there isn't and I didn't buy this card for the purpose of better Windows Media HD decoding performance
 
EnderW said:
that's how I feel

if there was big difference compared to ATI cards, I might feel differently, but from what I've seen there isn't and I didn't buy this card for the purpose of better Windows Media HD decoding performance
Click to expand...

Andrew you might not have bought your card for WMHD decoding, But that doesn't mean others didn;t. Sure the majority of people probably bought this for the gaming, but even if a feature such as WMHD decoding helped you choose a 6800 over an x800, and you realize that WMHD is broken, you have every right to be upset.

The fact tha nvidia is trying to cover this up and do nothing to fix this feature just causes the problem to escelate. If nvidia would have offered everyone a vouture for like 20$, or the ability to return the card, it would have fixed this problem.
 
I think the issue is actually MORE important than the gaming issue.

ANY card this generation is going to be able to play the same games and have roughly the same lifespan.

IF x800/700 series hardware accelerates WMV HD while the 6800 doesn't, that is the difference for many people between being able to play WMVHD period vs not being able to. I know that if I knew it didn't work, I probably woulda snagged an x800xt-pe instead.

Rob
 
Robstar said:
I think the issue is actually MORE important than the gaming issue.

ANY card this generation is going to be able to play the same games and have roughly the same lifespan.

IF x800/700 series hardware accelerates WMV HD while the 6800 doesn't, that is the difference for many people between being able to play WMVHD period vs not being able to. I know that if I knew it didn't work, I probably woulda snagged an x800xt-pe instead.

Rob
Click to expand...

Yeah Im feeling the same way you are. I know the first time I loaded up a WMV HD video and saw task manger indicate 80-90% cpu usage with spikes so much that the video skipped, I was pretty angry.

Nvidia your not gonna like me when im angry

/turn_green
 
bonkrowave said:
Andrew you might not have bought your card for WMHD decoding, But that doesn't mean others didn;t. Sure the majority of people probably bought this for the gaming, but even if a feature such as WMHD decoding helped you choose a 6800 over an x800, and you realize that WMHD is broken, you have every right to be upset.

The fact tha nvidia is trying to cover this up and do nothing to fix this feature just causes the problem to escelate. If nvidia would have offered everyone a vouture for like 20$, or the ability to return the card, it would have fixed this problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's OK, I'm just saying it doesn't really affect me (or the majority of 6600/6800 users) that much. I hope it is fixed somehow, as I'm sure everyone would benefit.
 
bonkrowave said:
Yeah Im feeling the same way you are. I know the first time I loaded up a WMV HD video and saw task manger indicate 80-90% cpu usage with spikes so much that the video skipped, I was pretty angry.

Nvidia your not gonna like me when im angry

/turn_green
Click to expand...

bah... that's what happens to me whenever i try to do something 3d on this heap. difference is, your video card is a state-of-the art 6800. mine is a geforce4 mx420 go. mine is the voodoo3 of the last century. your card should not perform like mine.

anybody wanna do an nvidia group flame? :D
 
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