too many CPUs...head will explode

G

gigglebyte

2[H]4U
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Jan 18, 2001
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Ok..I have been doing some reading on this as I had been looking at a new system (see current in sig) and my current system is starting to piss me off (blew PSU this weekend) so now I am seriously considering upgrading my system. My issue is I have been out of the loop long enough that I am not even sure what to get :eek:

Lets start by saying I don't care about the case/PSU and Mobo is secondary since that will depend on what CPU I decide on... I will also be porting over my 9800Pro and HDs to what ever I get but the big question is the CPU.

Currently I am running an XP2400/266 and I want something that will give me a bit of a boost, be fairly upgrade proof, but for me cost is a factor (read POOR) so I am looking for the best bang for the buck but would like to be able to do just a CPU upgrade in the future so I don't have to go through this process all again.

Anybody up for this challenge?
 
3200+ venice (when it's finally in stores :()
msi k8n neo2 if you plan to keep your video card

1gb of.. pc3200 ram :D
i'd suggest crucial ballistix if you want to oc on a budget
 
I second Eclipse's notion. I know how you feel.....I upgraded to my current machine after being out of the hardware loop for years (read: pentium3 with SDR PC133 memory). The only thing I wish I had done was gone for a socket 939 and a slower CPU but overall I ended up better after replacing a few parts later on....live and learn, and then you buy quality parts :p
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
3200+ venice (when it's finally in stores :()
msi k8n neo2 if you plan to keep your video card

1gb of.. pc3200 ram :D
i'd suggest crucial ballistix if you want to oc on a budget
Click to expand...

And if you decide to go PCI E then get the DFI Ultra D :)
 
PCI - E isn't that big of a deal for me since I don't do a LOT of gaming anymore...I still do light stuff but not enough to warrant that or an SLI...OCing also isn't that important either (I know....I know...blasphmey on [H] but it is true)

My only real concern would be cost for the Venice 3200...since this is a going to be the best thing since sliced bread I have a strange feeling it will be pricey for quite a while...going back to best bang for the buck (remember I am poor and cheap) would it be a good idea to look at a Winchester instead?
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
hahaha, oh man
those of you in the know, feel bad for me now. this is #12

they should be the same, but with newcastle to winchester, we saw vendors inflating prices due to demand. the same thing will happen here, so expect 5-10% more.
Click to expand...


qouted from another thread. That should help the both of you :)
 
personally if your upgrading it would be stupid not to go with a socket 939 and pci-e....it is a thousand times more futureproof than anything out there right now, since your on a budget id go with a 3000+ venice (whenever theyre friggin available), a 6600gt pci-e, and a DFI nf4 ultra-D. The reason for going with socket 939 and nf4 is because nf4 will support amd's dual core cpus and its pci-e support will give you the ability to upgrade your video card later on down the road just in case you ever want to get back into gaming...this is why i chose to move to pci-e and socket 939 and this whole venice thing has really got me ticked off. MUST FILL EMPTY CPU SOCKET!!!
 
he already has a pretty decent video card in his 9800pro; doesnt want to buy a new one when that can run anything on the market decent enough right now. True; down the line he might want to get a new video card when hl3 is out; but 6800u's will be cheap by then. AGP doesnt mean you cant upgrade in all sitations
 
and again..read (I AM POOR/CHEAP) and have a very limited budget on this...now if you want to GIVE me either the money or the parts then yeah...sure that works for me but I have a strange feeling that won't happen :p
 
How poor is poor? Give us an idea of how much you want to spend, and we can help you from there.
 
if your to poor to upgrade then DONT ask questions about upgrading...if you upgrade cheap ass components with more cheapass components youll have a cheapass system....just save you cash and keep your athlon xp 2400 system
 
A64 3200+ isn't likely to be that expensive. Give it some time, or get lucky and find a store that doesn't price gouge.
 
DamienThorn - I want to keep it under $300 if possible

cell_491 - I didn't say that I was too poor to upgrade just that I have limitations on what I am going to be able to buy and if you would have read PCI E isn't something that I need/want/care about especially since I don't do system upgrades too often

it will be more of an issue if I can't get a replacement PSU for my shuttle for a decent price because if I end up paying $75 for that I would rather sell off the old parts and use that for the upgrade to a new system
 
300 is possible.

msi k8n neo-fsr = $82.
this is the more budget oriented version of the k8n neo platinum. still nf3-250gb though :D

s754 3000+ = $146
yeah, no explaination needed

PDP pc3200 - 512mb = $68.51
it's not gonna overclock awesomely well, but those are good timings for the price. if you want, you can get two value oriented 512mb for a bit more to have a gig, though a slower timings. in many things, the extra ram will outweigh the slower timings. i'll dig up something good if you want more.

total = $296.51
 
the problem with that is that given the current setup, he doesn't upgrade often. i say get the most for the money and live with it for as long as he can..

however, on the other side, with that 6600, there will probably be a noticeable improvement in gaming. not much, but it'll definitly be there.
 
sigh...thanks for the help guys...going to have to make some tough choices...don't really want to sell my 9800 cause i don't really care for nvidia :rolleyes: but I also have to get a case for this beast since I won't be using my shuttles case...hhhuuummm at least I have the info now and thanks

oh..and I USED to upgrade like a maniac...then I got married
 
How about selling the 9800Pro, getting s939+PCIe, and:
a) Getting something like MSI's RS480 motherboard with semi-half-decent integrated graphics (some derivation of a Radeon 9600, but less powerful). It'll be a step down, but you said you don't game too much anyway. It'll allow you to plug in a PCIe card later on, if and when you feel the need to upgrade again.
OR
b) Using the money from the 9800Pro to get something out of today's market, like an X700Pro/X800 from ATI (edited after reading your last post and recommending a 6600GT). This actually isn't such a bad idea, since you can still sell your card for over $100 today- start with the FS/FT forum right here at [H].
Either way, it doesn't look like you upgrade too often- by your next refresh, you may have a much harder time finding an AGP card that is worth upgrading to. IOW, get PCIe NOW!
 
i'd go with a pci-e setup IF.. BIG IF your going to use it as a platform.. i.e: buy both then graphics card then maybe later a faster cpu or board. Other than that i'd just go socket 754 they'll last a few years. Plus, who knows even if you do spend a little extra money in terms of upgrading in the future how would anyone know if that cpu would be compatable w/that mobo or vice versa. Besides I think that card is till good for a few years. Hell, my friends are fine with their amd64 skt754 w/9600xt setups. What Eclipse posted just about what i would of suggested. Just my personal opinion.. :)
 
MaMMa said:
qouted from another thread. That should help the both of you :)
Click to expand...
To bad it wasn't cf quoting himself then it would have been #13 as it is now he is up to 12.5 LoL
 
gigglebyte said:
sigh...thanks for the help guys...going to have to make some tough choices...don't really want to sell my 9800 cause i don't really care for nvidia :rolleyes: but I also have to get a case for this beast since I won't be using my shuttles case...hhhuuummm at least I have the info now and thanks

oh..and I USED to upgrade like a maniac...then I got married
Click to expand...

Hmm U need to upgrade, and then Im not talking about the computer :D... Nahh methinks U make choises right.

Asl oon a side note: Id go with that s754 but Id get a DFI 250Gb and a 3200 and a good HS/F combo with a decent PSU its gonne last U a year longer (on OC) then anything else U buy with the sam money today. Reason behind 3200 vs. 300 is that the extra multi is Very handy.
 
imo, s754 is still an awesome setup. just make sure you get a chip with 1mb of cache.. i think there's still a few reliable places (monarchcomputers) where they're sold. as frallan said, higher multi's are very useful.

and don't worry, i'm sure i'll write up the price of venice at least one or two more times, even if it's just in spite, for no real reason :D
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
imo, s754 is still an awesome setup. just make sure you get a chip with 1mb of cache.. i think there's still a few reliable places (monarchcomputers) where they're sold. as frallan said, higher multi's are very useful.
Click to expand...

ok...question here...you say to get 1mb cache but the only ones I see are the clawhammer series...so would that be a better choice than the Newcastle/Winchester/Venice?
 
No. A Socket 754 system locks you out of upgrading-- you cannot upgrade to a more powerful A64, or a dual-core chip. A Socket 939 board will let you upgrade all the way to a Dual-Core chip later this year-- and a Socket 939 chip can use Dual Channel memory mode to significantly increase RAM performance.

I highly advise against buying Socket 754 unless you are very, very strapped for cash, as for just a little more you can have a 2+ years upgrade path-- while 754 is being relegated to budget Semprons from here on out.
 
I just checked and I upgraded to my current system in 4/03 so you can see I am not that worried about what is coming out next week/month/quarter since I am not going to buy it right then anyway...if I can get decent performance from a system for a couple of years I am more than happy
 
Regardless, first choice should be Venice on 939, you'll have to wait a couple weeks but it'll hold you a good long time.
 
gigglebyte said:
I just checked and I upgraded to my current system in 4/03 so you can see I am not that worried about what is coming out next week/month/quarter since I am not going to buy it right then anyway...if I can get decent performance from a system for a couple of years I am more than happy
Click to expand...

But for slightly more money, you can not only have more performance, but when you upgrade in a couple years, you won't have to replace the board. Surely that's worth the bit of extra.
 
you bring up a good question now don't you....but the way I am sort of looking at it right now was AMD came out with the s754 how long ago? and now it is being replaced with the 939 right...who is to say in another 2 years they won't have changed the layout again and if I was going to upgrade to something fairly current I would be buying a new mobo/ram again
 
Bwahaha! They already are, it's called Socket M2.

Socket 754 has no future and its children will be abandoned on the barren frozen wastelands of a forgotten world.
 
Ruiner very interesting acticle!
I built a box with 939 3000 and a cheap(newegg refurbed) k8t neo2 fir.
Together they cost around $200.Leaving enough $ for some cheap memory.The
setup overclocked nicely and will be able to be upgraded without great expense.Not cutting edge but very usable
 
gigglebyte said:
now it is being replaced with the 939 right...who is to say in another 2 years they won't have changed the layout again and if I was going to upgrade to something fairly current I would be buying a new mobo/ram again
Click to expand...

Socket 939 is going to be around well through 2006 and probably 2007. Socket M2 is for Dual-Core Athlon 64s-- you can still install a Dual-Core Socket 939 model, AMD has made this VERY clear. You will be in great shape with Socket 939.
 
That assumes that current 939 mobos will meet the power requirements of two cores...especially when overclocked.. Remember what happened to initial prescott boards?

There's compatible and then there's compatible.
 
Ruiner said:
That assumes that current 939 mobos will meet the power requirements of two cores...especially when overclocked.. Remember what happened to initial prescott boards?

There's compatible and then there's compatible.
Click to expand...

Socket 939 boards draw CPU power from a dedicated +12V connector to the power supply. If your supply meets the power specification of the CPU, the system will run fine.
 
prescott won't happen with amd.
the dual cores should be rated for 92.6w.. amd might do a bit of tweaking on that number, but that's what i'm seeing for now. the power regulation can definitly deal with it. hell, my k8n neo can take my clawhammer drawing around 140w without much complaint, and it has a 2 phase power regulation circuit.. though it does have heatsinks on the mosfets.
 
Epicenter said:
Socket 939 is going to be around well through 2006 and probably 2007. Socket M2 is for Dual-Core Athlon 64s-- you can still install a Dual-Core Socket 939 model, AMD has made this VERY clear. You will be in great shape with Socket 939.
Click to expand...

Where is your source that says that the M2 won't totally replace 939 in 2006 through 2007?
 
robberbaron said:
Where is your source that says that the M2 won't totally replace 939 in 2006 through 2007?
Click to expand...

AMD's processor roadmap. See: http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2303

.. as you can see, new FX-series CPUs slated for 2006, an FX-59 is planned after the FX-57, and in addition to these, AMD has confirmed Dual-Core A64s will be made for Socket 939 as well. If that isn't enough upgradability to keep you happy with 939 for years to come, I don't know what is. Upgrading to M2 will most certainly not be mandatory until late 2007, and I have a feeling AMD will not abandon such popular platforms as NForce4 and 3, and keep around Socket 939 for quite a while as the single-core playing field.

Note that AMD is marketing dual-core CPUs as an alternative choice for users who do heavy multitasking and use multithreaded applications and is still supporting A64s and A64-FX'es on Single-Core designs as people who demand raw horsepower on SINGLE threaded applications and do not do much multitasking will see better performance with one core. This is why I do NOT see 939 going away anytime soon.

On the other side of the playing field we have Intel putting 2 cores in their CPUs because one core proved to be unscalable to the higher clocks planned for it (Prescott was slated to go to 5.0 ghz and could not.) Dual cores at lower clocks is the only way for Intel to go now due to the thermal barriers on Prescott, until they engineer a core that doesn't rely on the now-faltering Netburst architecture.
 
(note, the following post isn't really coherant, on-topic, or intelligent. ignore if you wish ;))


while you say that 939 won't be mandatory when M2 is out.. keep in mind that the same exact thing is happening with 754 and 939 right now. sure, no more desktop a64's will be launched for 754, but people are still buying it even though everyone is saying to upgrade to 939.. even if you've got a 754 setup and just want a new cpu. what's to say that the same thing won't happen when someone with a 939 setup wants to update their cpu in mid to late '06? everyone will tell him/her to wait and get M2 instead of buying a new 939.
people like baron and i will probably never own a 939 rig because what we have now is good enough. if you're making a new rig with no plans to upgrade for two years, 754 is still better than 939 as far as price/performance goes. then when the time comes to upgrade, just skip 939 altogether and go with M2 :D


that out of the way, i'm not sure where you're getting 2007 from... upgrading is never mandatory, i could keep my rig for 5 years and go with the next generation cpu :D
also, everything i've seen indicates the transition from 939 to M2 to be sometime in mid to late 2006. even anandtech says:
"That's just speculation on our part, but by 2006 we should see DDR2 prices drop to DDR levels and possibly even lower, and we should also see a shift towards the use of 1 GB and 2 GB DIMMs. That would be a good time for AMD to transition to a new CPU and RAM platform, we think."

also, a new socket won't require a new chipset. notice how the nf3 works with both 754 and 939? and there are nf4 board coming out that work with 754 in conjunction with 939?
the only reason we would need a new chipset is if amd changes to the new hypertransport spec, but even then, that can be fixed with a mere refresh of the product, a very small portion of the chipset would have to be changed for that. ;)
 
It's a reasonable point, but you must bear in mind that the difference between 754 and 939 are that one has more CPU to Chipset bandwidth and Dual Channel memory support, also far more advanced speed-wise Chips available for it .. while they are both for the same task, the same kind of users. 939 and M2 are not meant for the same kind of people. 939 is meant for people who DO NOT rely heavy on multithreaded apps and multitasking, and need maximum performance on a single-threaded application. ... hence, GAMERS. Big group there. A user with a dual-core CPU will be using a lower-clocked core and, for today's software anyway, will see LOWER FPS ratings and in game performance on a dual-core chip if ONE of its cores is not up to the job compared to a single-core faster chip.

Then, we have the M2 socket meant for multitaskers and users of heavy multithreaded applications. GRAPHIC DESIGNERS and VIDEO BUFFS. Tasks that must use 100% of the CPU now use their OWN 100% and don't slow each other down, multithreaded apps like Photoshop run 100% faster. Yet, each core must be utilized for one task only, so if for example, a game-- is not multithreaded, the game won't run as fast as a high-end Single Core chip would run it.

The fact that these two categories are so diverse and neither chip will truly suit both groups ideally is the logical reason why AMD would not relegate 939 to 'budget status' prematurely-- as it has a valid purpose and is not second best to M2. Such is not the case with 754 and 939, where either chip will do the exact same things and 939 just does everything better.

(as for NF4 being portable onto M2 boards, you are most likely correct about this. Slipped my mind.)
 
At a guess, M2 might be so they can get better support for multicore (not just dual core)? In which case it might not be so important to home users for quite a while anyway.

I doubt I'm going to outgrow my 939 (which I did over 754 because I could get it reasonably cheap, and because I'm a dual channel whore since I'm used to Northwood) any time soon, and if I start feeling the need for an upgrade it'll be most of a year from now at the earliest and by then dual core should be reasonable. I'll probably end up missing M2 altogether if they keep coming out with new sockets at this rate.
 
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