Torvalds: Microsoft is Bluffing On Patents

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
So Linus Torvalds, during an interview with the Linux Foundation, said that Microsoft is bluffing on its patent claims. I hear what he is saying but I can’t help but think “isn’t he THE guy to call them on that bluff?”

"Another reason why I don't think Microsoft really seriously would go after patents is when you're a convicted monopolist in the marketplace you really should not be suing your competitors over patents," Torvalds continued. "I think that most Microsoft lawyers would say, 'You know, let's not do that; that sounds insane'."
Click to expand...
 
I'm just saying...you know....if someone was going to call someone on this...wouldn't it be Torvalds himself?
 
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility. It's not going to work and never will. Linux is a dying OS that will never beat the 91% share Microsoft Windows has in the market.
 
L33t Masta said:
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility. It's not going to work and never will. Linux is a dying OS that will never beat the 91% share Microsoft Windows has in the market.
Click to expand...

You do know the hot Eee PC comes with a Linux OS? :D
 
And will soon be available w/ Windows XP out of the box. Soon being this month if C|Net is right ("next month" as of Jan 24th).
 
Well if most of the buyers know how to install XP without an optical drive then most will format, however we don't know the actual number. I left mine with the linux OS because it does quite well for what it is intended for and for everything else, I have my quad core desktop and 15.4" laptop.
 
Linux is a good OS and has it's place for certain things etc., but he better hope that they MS doesn't win. If they do, whatever he says will be totally irrelevant and everyone will spell "pwnt" for the majority. Going up against a monopolist with that amount of resources and money, you should be thankful that Linux has gotten as far as it has.

MS' lawyers would think it's crazy to go after Apple (their "biggest" competitor) in such a fashion, but the Leopard/Mac OS doesn't apply in this case. Smudging out Linux/Unix isn't going to suddenly tip the scale on the "you've gone too far MS" on the monopoly meter. That's why MS kept Apple around for, the loss Linux wouldn't be detrimental to MS' near-monopoly stance. Besides, too much of this earth relies on Windows. A separation of MS would mean that one half would keep the core of the OS, grow, then absorb the other half and you're back to square one/MS. The government (and the EU inadvertently) will just keep MS in check by heavy fining, it's not like MS would want to go through a separation so they won't go "too" far.
 
When I get my eee I'm keeping it as is. I understand Linux enough to do basic browsing and office/workstation things and that's all I really need it for. The hard drive size of course is limiting, but anyone who's just doing that kind of stuff typically doesn't need a lot of space to begin with.

'sides, I'm amazed no one's thought of just ripping out the hard drive and using it as a main drive in their desktop system.

To be perfectly honest though, I don't understand why Linux hasn't tried to get the attention of gamers more, and make some kind of gaming capability for it. From my standpiont it'd make sense. That $150-$400 you spend on an operating system would be freed up for better computer parts or even a set of speakers, or a bigger monitor, or even a few games. Sure, WINE and other windows emulators may do the trick but they're not 100%, and it tends to be a lot more work than what most may want to invest into getting a game running. Prime example was Cedega on an Ubunto install I had about 4 or 5 releases ago. I followed the wiki to the T, and for some reason it would not allow me to play anything. And any help I got after that just made it seem like I was the only person on this planet who couldn't get it to run. It got frustrating and it just turned me off from the hope that I could game under an operating system that I honestly like better.
 
Well the problem with that as you said was, compatibility. Most people (out of very few) wouldn't likely go as far as you did in trying to get it to work. It's got to work out of the box for it to really take off or be a useful option. Then you get into emulation performance issues on top of it all. Not to mention that Direct X is getting more and more complex as it is (see driver progress), although implementation will get better with time, I think it's a lost cause in the end as it will likely never get to the point where it's a real option.
 
L33t Masta said:
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility. It's not going to work and never will. Linux is a dying OS that will never beat the 91% share Microsoft Windows has in the market.
Click to expand...

Retarded statement.

Linux is dying? Really? Funny, it has never been so popular for desktop users and still maintaining its server market.


SUSE?
Ubuntu?
Fedora/RedHat?
Gentoo?
and
a million of others...

yes it's dying.
 
L33t Masta said:
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility.
Click to expand...
Who is this "Linux" entity of which you speak? :p
OldDeadOne said:
You also know most will format and install Windows after trying out Linux? LOL :p
Click to expand...
I couldn't say. I do know that I did the opposite with my originally Windows XP notebook :D:
 
Miscommunication said:
Well the problem with that as you said was, compatibility. Most people (out of very few) wouldn't likely go as far as you did in trying to get it to work. It's got to work out of the box for it to really take off or be a useful option. Then you get into emulation performance issues on top of it all. Not to mention that Direct X is getting more and more complex as it is (see driver progress), although implementation will get better with time, I think it's a lost cause in the end as it will likely never get to the point where it's a real option.
Click to expand...

I know. And that's what boggles me! It boggles me as to why some distro of it doesnt' work to make theirs where gaming and all the steps associated with it on a PC platform (i.e. installation, updates, etc.) are just as simple as they are under Windows. It may require emulation, it may not. But what's a couple more steps when you're waiting for 8+ gigs of data to be dumped onto your hard drive these days?
 
L33t Masta said:
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility. It's not going to work and never will. Linux is a dying OS that will never beat the 91% share Microsoft Windows has in the market.
Click to expand...

You are hilarious.
 
syntx said:
Retarded statement.

Linux is dying? Really? Funny, it has never been so popular for desktop users and still maintaining its server market.


SUSE?
Ubuntu?
Fedora/RedHat?
Gentoo?
and
a million of others...

yes it's dying.
Click to expand...


Windows server 2008 is set to destroy them all. WIndows allready has 91% of the desktop market. Linux is a dying OS that is good for NOTHING.
 
Very Very funny... Definitely dying which is why its market share is GROWING and M$ market share is SHRINKING... wait... which one was dying again?


And the whole "call them out thing," everyone is ready to call them out. But M$ kind of needs to SHOW US THE OFFENDING CODE, because as it turns out... THEY CAN LOOK AT IT!


And the beauty about Linux is if there is an issue, you fork the code base and its moot point.

And the Linux "person" isn't Torvolds, its me, you, and about 150,000 other developers. And its not just Linux, if Linux actually died (which it won't) BSD would take its place before you the anyone noticed.
 
and another thing... How many of you yahoos are posting about linux dying from firefox? There is no difference.
 
L33t Masta said:
Windows server 2008 is set to destroy them all. WIndows allready has 91% of the desktop market. Linux is a dying OS that is good for NOTHING.
Click to expand...


Where's you proof? Where are your statisics? Linux hs been around for years and has been slowly increasing market shares.If it was gonna die, it would have done so years ago
you talking about an OS that isn't even out yet. L33t my a**.
 
And if MS had something, don't you think they would have done something long ago. they have been sayin the same thing for years and never filed. So i'm thinking this just more crap from them.
 
traetox said:
and another thing... How many of you yahoos are posting about linux dying from firefox? There is no difference.
Click to expand...

I use Opera. Closed source. It gets everything far before someone rips it off for Firefox. Can't opensource get creative and stop ripping stuff off like all those 300 or so patents microsoft has?

dawp said:
Where's you proof? Where are your statisics? Linux hs been around for years and has been slowly increasing market shares.If it was gonna die, it would have done so years ago
you talking about an OS that isn't even out yet. L33t my a**.
Click to expand...

Straight from DailyTech:

7161_large_Jan_market.png


OH MY GOODNESS LOOK! 0.5 OF A PERCENT OF PEOPLE USE LINUX! man look at that 91% Windows share. Who really cares if Linux is going up 0.01% every year? it's a dying OS that has nothing to offer and will never beat out Windows. And real men can say "ass".
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
When I get my eee I'm keeping it as is. I understand Linux enough to do basic browsing and office/workstation things and that's all I really need it for. The hard drive size of course is limiting, but anyone who's just doing that kind of stuff typically doesn't need a lot of space to begin with.

'sides, I'm amazed no one's thought of just ripping out the hard drive and using it as a main drive in their desktop system.

To be perfectly honest though, I don't understand why Linux hasn't tried to get the attention of gamers more, and make some kind of gaming capability for it. From my standpiont it'd make sense. That $150-$400 you spend on an operating system would be freed up for better computer parts or even a set of speakers, or a bigger monitor, or even a few games. Sure, WINE and other windows emulators may do the trick but they're not 100%, and it tends to be a lot more work than what most may want to invest into getting a game running. Prime example was Cedega on an Ubunto install I had about 4 or 5 releases ago. I followed the wiki to the T, and for some reason it would not allow me to play anything. And any help I got after that just made it seem like I was the only person on this planet who couldn't get it to run. It got frustrating and it just turned me off from the hope that I could game under an operating system that I honestly like better.
Click to expand...

Very nice. However you probably represent the 1 - 5% of people of people who buy eepc with the intention of keeping linux because you know the basics.
 
The eeePC is rather useless as far as anything portable goes. It's screen is far too small, it lacks hard drive space, it's CPU is too weak to do anything gamewise with and really, if you're getting a laptop you want something that's going to give you something more than "tux Racer".
 
L33t Masta said:
I use Opera. Closed source. It gets everything far before someone rips it off for Firefox. Can't opensource get creative and stop ripping stuff off like all those 300 or so patents microsoft has?



Straight from DailyTech:

7161_large_Jan_market.png


OH MY GOODNESS LOOK! 0.5 OF A PERCENT OF PEOPLE USE LINUX! man look at that 91% Windows share. Who really cares if Linux is going up 0.01% every year? it's a dying OS that has nothing to offer and will never beat out Windows. And real men can say "ass".
Click to expand...


um, that pretty steady, it ain't dieing away. just because it has a small market share in desktop does not mean it's going away. And look at the server market. it's much larger. ust because YOU don't like it don't mean diddly squat.And who hase the bigger marketing department? people are going to buy what they know about weather or not it's better. part of the price for MS is to pay for the advertising.more overhead.
 
L33t Masta said:
The eeePC is rather useless as far as anything portable goes. It's screen is far too small, it lacks hard drive space, it's CPU is too weak to do anything gamewise with and really, if you're getting a laptop you want something that's going to give you something more than "tux Racer".
Click to expand...

the eeepc is not ment for gaming so that is a mote point. for what it is, it gets the job done.It's meant to be highly portable, not a desktop replacement, if that what you want, look elsewhere.
 
dawp said:
um, that pretty steady, it ain't dieing away. just because it has a small market share in desktop does not mean it's going away. And look at the server market. it's much larger. ust because YOU don't like it don't mean diddly squat.And who hase the bigger marketing department? people are going to buy what they know about weather or not it's better. part of the price for MS is to pay for the advertising.more overhead.
Click to expand...

Obviously Microsoft is doing something right if they're still on top. I'm sure if Linux WERE SO MUCH BETTER word of mouth would travel and tons more people would be using Linux. But with Windows Server 2008 and Vista Linux is fighting a losing battle. Eventually it's going to get hit with these patent violations and Linux itself will head down the crappier (not unlike where it is right now) because without ripping code off from actual professional developers they aren't going to get anywhere. And 1 person going to linux every 6 months isn't what I would call steady.
 
L33t Masta said:
Obviously Microsoft is doing something right if they're still on top. I'm sure if Linux WERE SO MUCH BETTER word of mouth would travel and tons more people would be using Linux. But with Windows Server 2008 and Vista Linux is fighting a losing battle. Eventually it's going to get hit with these patent violations and Linux itself will head down the crappier (not unlike where it is right now) because without ripping code off from actual professional developers they aren't going to get anywhere. And 1 person going to linux every 6 months isn't what I would call steady.
Click to expand...


They've been saying this for years and have not shown any sort of proof. Why don't they lay the card on the table if they aren't bluffing? they been asked repeatedly to show what patents so the offending code could be removed and have yet to do this. Why? Maybe because there isn't any?

Linux is a nich market and has been for some time. Have you ever used it for an extend period of time? I have and I've used MS. Both have their strength and weaknesses. infact i have 3 pc in my house, 2 have windows and 1 has Linux. As far as word of mouth, you know it don't work that way. People will use what they are familular with. Even if there is a better product.
 
Most people who downplay Linux are most probably never tried Linux before or don't have enough knowledge to really use it :D
 
L33t Masta said:
We'll see what he has to say when Linux is hit with all those patent infringements. Theywant to be different from Windows but they want the same compatibility. It's not going to work and never will. Linux is a dying OS that will never beat the 91% share Microsoft Windows has in the market.
Click to expand...

dumb,retarded statement
soo much prior art with most of those patents, thus VOID
soo many obvious things with most of those patents, thus VOID

then we finally get onto the fact that said patents only valid in a handful of countries and those countries ARNT in the EU

the we get onto the fact that Linux usage is increasing in the backroom of serverhouses. most medium->large companies have some linux box's for server. Game-server providers prefer linux (for low overhead,scalability and cost)

Then we get onto your feeble attempt to say linux is shrinking by proving ONE datapoint (with that pie chart) FFS you cant even get a straight line with one point, go back to middle school and learn basic maths

THAT "snapshot" is based upon the results of weblogs of ~40,000 website (servers don't tend to goto websites now do they...) They also RELY on the useragent string of the browser and here is the good part... the useragent string can be changed (SHOCK HORROR) and quite a few linux users do change theirs because stupid websites won't load (and displace a nasty popup) if non-IE or non-windows is used. Thus UserAgent needs to be modified to allow view of website, thus resulting in false positives for windows usage.

The BBC recently got bitten by it when they said they would not provide an iplayer for linux (even though the gov'n said they have to) BECAUSE... there was only 600 linux users in the UK (based upon their linux apache weblogs)... within 30min of that being stated the BBC news forums had >600 linux ppl saying "lies". They later retracted the statement saying they have no idea how many linux users there are in the UK

Not only that if you check the trend over the last 12months (and that site does show that) you will notice as a percentage it is going up! not saying constant or going down the percentage is GOING UP!!!! which means the uptake rate has increase.

Where in that did you assertain that linux usage is going down
You then enter the market of small/cheap PC (eeePC for starters) where storage space is low and the cost is low... Windows can't compete with that. Sure MS have made a deal with ASUS to ship eeePC's with XP pre-installed but they wouldn't go lower then $60, plus the installbase of XP is huge for something with 2Gig of storage... not to mention no way to disable logging (thus aging the flash alot quicker... linux can mount /var/log in a tmpfs)

NOT to mention embeded devices, a market that windows just cannot compete due to
1) cost
2) size
3) different arch (I mean does a full blown windows run on ARM or MIPS?)


Linux most certainly not dying and with the likes of Stephen Fry actually slating Microsoft & Vista and really praising Linux its uptake is gonna increase


you really have no idea do you? and the funny part is I am pretty sure you believe all that bullshit you post
 
eeyrjmr - He is the biggest Microsoft fanboy there ever was, ignore him. Most rational people can see pros and cons with every OS. I myself run OS X, XP Pro, Vista, and Ubuntu for fun sometimes. I have praise and complaints for each one, although I admittedly have way more negative to say re: Vista in its current state.

I would actually be glad if L33t Masta was a paid shill by MS. That he most likely isn't one makes his cheerleading really really sad.
 
Just how is Linus supposed to call MS's bluff? MS threatens patent lawsuits "someday", with "some patents" that are never specified. Is Linus supposed to go through every single patent granted to MS and try to have it invalidated (while MS sends trucks full of new applications to the patent office)?

Somebody didn't think the point of this sound bite through. Linus has already called the bluff as far as he possibly can.
 
Wumpus said:
Just how is Linus supposed to call MS's bluff? MS threatens patent lawsuits "someday", with "some patents" that are never specified. Is Linus supposed to go through every single patent granted to MS and try to have it invalidated (while MS sends trucks full of new applications to the patent office)?

Somebody didn't think the point of this sound bite through. Linus has already called the bluff as far as he possibly can.
Click to expand...

Then you don't know what calling someone's bluff is then you

anyway
MS have already been banned from saying such things in the EU. If they want to make such accusations about patent violations they have to actually state the patents... funny enough such noise from MS in europe stopped

ergo MS are just bluffing and spreading FUD as usual
 
syntx said:
Retarded statement.

Linux is dying? Really? Funny, it has never been so popular for desktop users and still maintaining its server market.


SUSE?
Ubuntu?
Fedora/RedHat?
Gentoo?
and
a million of others...

yes it's dying.
Click to expand...

dying perhaps not. stagnant definitely. since the beginning linux for the desktop has been a cheap copy of windows and its been proven people would rather pay money for something that is robust and useful than take crap that is free. buh bye linux.
 
I'm choking on the fanboism in this thread.

This is like GM owners claiming that VW is dying and VW saying they're eventually gonna take over the world.

Can't people just look at the facts and see that Windows is a dominant force, but there is a groove for Linux?

BTW, it's not that Windows is more 'robust' or 'better'. The advantages that MS has are that they were first and that software is written to play nice with Windows. If 99% of desktop software were written to run on Linux, do you think there would be a huge portion of people lining up to buy Vista because it's more robust but knowing that getting their programs to run would be a headache? Don't think so.

BTW, all my machines run Windows atm. I've messed around in Linux in the past but never really learned enough to make it work for me.
 
If it weren't for games I would have switched years ago to Linux only. I already use OSS programs when ever I can over retail products. The only program I use that isn't open source is Paint Shop Pro X which I believe works well with wine.

I've always had a love hate relationship with Linux. After I spent 6+hrs doing a stage 2 Gentoo install only to hose it within 48hrs pushed me away for over a year until I found out about Ubuntu and I haven't looked at any other distro since. I loved Gentoo for compiling everything from source so it was configured for my system but waiting for it to finish took ages.

After 7.04 I felt Ubuntu was ready for average desktop usage. I couldn't break it anymore with me fiddling around and after 7.10 I had to fiddle around less to make everything work the way I wanted (mostly editing grub for my dual boot)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top