Two 8800GT in SLI or One HD 3870X2

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jarlaxlecq

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Each 8800GT is 230-240 bucks. so total is $480. The ATI is $460. Now this Anand says the Nvidia in tandem is faster here. Now the ATI is a single card which would let me use a less expensive MB vs an SLI enabled one for the two cards. I'm not sure if its possible to use Two 3870X2 in crossfire as an option down the road for upgradability

What do you guys think?
 
I would personally go with a single card solution. You can always crossfire another 3870X2 in the future.
 
For more performance, I'd pick the 3870X2. Plus you wouldn't need to get a pokey 680i board.
 
I think the 3870 X2 is probably cheaper because you only need a single PCI-E slot. You are not stuck buying an Nvidia SLI mobo. You have more options to choose on the mobos. What Res are you plan on playing? If you plan on playing games on a LCD smaller than 24" then, an 8800GT, 8800GTS or HD 3870 should be enough for most of the current games.
 
I can't believe nobody say anything bad about the ATI yet ;)

I'd go for the ati as I love having a dual monitor set up. Also the ati uses very little power when not gaming
 
I agree with the other posts.. for a a couple of other reasons other than the VFM standpoint.

The heat output is less... as compared to the 8800GT where you would need to go for 3rd party cooling solutions. Secondly, looking to the future ATI believes crossfire (dual-gpu solutions) is the future, contrary to Nvidia who will still repose their faith in a single GPU solution.

Going by that logic, expect your crossfire driver to get better over the next few months.
 
commodore said:
I agree with the other posts.. for a a couple of other reasons other than the VFM standpoint.

The heat output is less... as compared to the 8800GT where you would need to go for 3rd party cooling solutions. Secondly, looking to the future ATI believes crossfire (dual-gpu solutions) is the future, contrary to Nvidia who will still repose their faith in a single GPU solution.

Going by that logic, expect your crossfire driver to get better over the next few months.
Click to expand...

Oh, I can't wait to see what kind of improvements we get in performance & stability when mature drivers come down the pipe for these new ATI cards. The 3870x2 really impresses now. Just imagine with better drivers and compatibility.

I wish their was more love for my ol' 680i, though. I guess too many people have had rough experiences with that chipset on Hard Forums to forgive. My experience has been great, though. I love my 680i chipset. My motherboard was only $119 after rebate - with all the bells & whistles. I only paid 220 for my 8800GT. I've got it overclocked to 750MHz with stock cooling, my ram (8GB) overclocked to 1000MHz, my quad core overclocked to 3.33GHz, and everything runs just dandy. It's been fun, and when I buy my second GT for around 220, as prices are dropping, I'll overclock it, too, to whatever I can. I bet it will impress.... anyhoo. how much overclocking overhead do we get on the 3870X2's?? Anybody out there with experiences to share??
 
jarlaxlecq said:
Each 8800GT is 230-240 bucks. so total is $480. The ATI is $460. Now this Anand says the Nvidia in tandem is faster here. Now the ATI is a single card which would let me use a less expensive MB vs an SLI enabled one for the two cards. I'm not sure if its possible to use Two 3870X2 in crossfire as an option down the road for upgradability

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

From my POV, there is no simple answer to your question, for the following reasons:

1) I usually only recommend single card solutions, because SLI or Crossfire solutions, require too much hassle and are ultimately dependent on driver support.

2) An ultra high-end single card will usually provide similar performance to dual card setups.

In terms of performance the 8800 GT SLI setup is faster, but it is SLI, so I prefer to avoid it.
The HD 3870 X2 is still a good performer and although it's a "single" card, it's dependent on Crossfire support, just like any dual card configuration.

At this point, I don't think you can go wrong with either setup, since for the majority of current games, SLI and Crossfire support is usually there. But for future games, this is uncertain. If you don't care about this, pick the cheapest out of the two, which in this case seems to be the X2 and you'll be fine.
If you care about it, I would recommend you look at a 8800 GTX or 8800 GTS 512. They are the cheapest and most powerful single card solutions out there.
 
He didn't mention it, but my vote is leaning to a GTX since I've seen some very sweet deals laterly on them.
 
X2 is an excellent I don't want to replace my motherboard just to have 2 card performance situation. Now if you want to have quadfire.... then get a Crossfire board and you can have 2 x2s. But for power savings.. thats definitelyl the way to go.
 
First off, are you planning on building a new computer? If not, doesn't your current motherboard only have AGP slots? Neither of the options would work. If you're not planning on upgrading, 1 8800GT would be too much for your system and would be hindered by your processor.

I assume you're building a new computer but ya never know;)

EDIT: O yeah, I wanted to comment on the heat output of the 8800GT. I just recently got an 8800GT. Stock cooling is more than adequate if you just simply use rivatuner to adjust your fan speed. Mine has NEVER gone over 70 degrees Celsius.
 
The skulltrail motherboard has a special nforce 100 PCIe controller, and with nehalem coming out w/ the built in memory controller...

Intel is going have to stop with ATI and team with nvidia. Why would someone want to get an ATI card when they could get a matching AMD cpu? I guess it is just to keep ATI fans still with intel procs.

In the future I see SLI on intel mobos.
 
In the future I see SLI on intel mobos.
Click to expand...

I don't ... Skulltrail is an exception to cater to the enthusiast with $$ to spend.

Intel and Nvidia do not and in all likelihood will not agree to the cost of licensing of SLI for Intel chipsets. Secondly, SLI requires the integration of a Nvidia chip on the mobo...another deterrent for mobo manufacturers. The future of SLI can be safely said to be only on Nvidia chipsets.

Lets weigh the pros and cons of Crossfire

Crossfire Pro's:
1. Crossfire in the 3870X2 is seamless and transparent ...and can only get better. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3219
2. Dual Slot reference cooler
3. Comparatively less heat output
4. Performance scaling in non-Nvidia games (the ones that dont come with "The way its meant to be played" moniker) is on par with Nvidia's SLI solutions.
5. Crossfire driver to get better over the next few months as ATI will regularly release low heat multi-chip designs.
6. Works on Intel chipsets AND offers relatively more VFM in my opinion
Crossfire Con's:
1. Poor performance scaling in AFR mode for non-supported games
2. Poor performance scaling in "The way its meant to be played" games
( Performance in both the above cases is similar to that of a single 3870)

Note: SLI too does not support every game out there .. so make sure the kind of games you play are supported.
 
Silus said:
From my POV, there is no simple answer to your question, for the following reasons:

1) I usually only recommend single card solutions, because SLI or Crossfire solutions, require too much hassle and are ultimately dependent on driver support.

2) An ultra high-end single card will usually provide similar performance to dual card setups.

In terms of performance the 8800 GT SLI setup is faster, but it is SLI, so I prefer to avoid it.
The HD 3870 X2 is still a good performer and although it's a "single" card, it's dependent on Crossfire support, just like any dual card configuration.

At this point, I don't think you can go wrong with either setup, since for the majority of current games, SLI and Crossfire support is usually there. But for future games, this is uncertain. If you don't care about this, pick the cheapest out of the two, which in this case seems to be the X2 and you'll be fine.
If you care about it, I would recommend you look at a 8800 GTX or 8800 GTS 512. They are the cheapest and most powerful single card solutions out there.
Click to expand...

Remember that while the 3870X2 does technically rely on crossfire support, the actual crossfire is handled within the card. This eliminates some of the gamble, as reported by multiple reviews on the card, and improves stability.
 
SirKronan said:
Remember that while the 3870X2 does technically rely on crossfire support, the actual crossfire is handled within the card. This eliminates some of the gamble, as reported by multiple reviews on the card, and improves stability.
Click to expand...

Crossfire is Crossfire is Crossfire. Why? Because AFR is AFR is AFR.

Having 2 chips on 1 pcb doesn't eliminate *any* of the gamble.

Games that traditional 2 board Crossfire doesn't have a profile for still don't have a profile, and still don't scale. Likewise, games that Crossfire does well at, the x2 does well at.
 
In some games you'll get less than single card performance with on board Crossfire enabled using the X2-

Hanners recently showed this behavior in Need For Speed: Pro Street-
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=531&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=6

The same may be said for SupCom @ techPowerUp!
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_3870_X2/15.html

I got the same thing in TRL with next gen on and in game AA enabled with the X2 I tried.

Depending on your res, I'd get a single 8800GT or GTS 512Mb. They are as low as 199 and 259usd respectively @ Newegg with rebate.

GT-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127329
GTS-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130325

If you really want an X2 type card wait and see what the 9800 GX2 can do. 9 out of 10 of these fellow pimping the X2 have never seen one or tried one, I have; too hot, too loud and too dependent on the application in question for its performance. You might get better than HD 3870 Crossfire performance or less than a single stock HD 3850. Sometimes Crossfire causes very bad stutter too. The Trade Quarter in The Witcher stuttered like mad on the X2 I had. The X2 is too unpredictable to invest 450usd in IMO. The nVidia cards will give you much more reliable performance across a wider variety of titles.They are simply more balanced. AA often kills ATi's current cards. BTW if you go with Evga or XFX you get a lifetime warranty and official support of end user overclocking.
 
SirKronan said:
Remember that while the 3870X2 does technically rely on crossfire support, the actual crossfire is handled within the card. This eliminates some of the gamble, as reported by multiple reviews on the card, and improves stability.
Click to expand...

It's Crossfire, no matter how you put it. It is highly dependent on driver support and it's the exact same gamble you have, when you buy a SLI or Crossfire dual-card setup, but with a prettier package.
 
I love my 3870X2 even with this low power CPU.
Both solutions are Dual GPU so I dont know why people are ragging on the X2 due to crossfire. Thats hardly a con when comparing two dual GPUs.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
I love my 3870X2 even with this low power CPU.
Both solutions are Dual GPU so I dont know why people are ragging on the X2 due to crossfire. Thats hardly a con when comparing two dual GPUs.
Click to expand...

We are talking to the people that think that Crossfire is not an issue with the X2, as is with a normal dual card setup, but the fact is that it is an issue!

If you can live with that, there's no problem. But we are just trying to enlighten people that think otherwise and may regret it when it's already too late.
 
Its a factor not an issue.
I think thats where people on both sides of the fence are messing up.
Go for the the 3870X2.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Its a factor not an issue.
I think thats where people on both sides of the fence are messing up.
Go for the the 3870X2.
Click to expand...

It is an issue, if the game you want to play doesn't scale well with Crossfire and your $450 card performs as a $225 one. But in the end, it's your money, not mine
 
gts in sli. because they perform as good an x2, and if you check the ati forum, you will see that the x2 flickers in some games.. as far as i know, there has not been a fix. also, there are powerplay issues with it downclocking itself at inoportune moments. besides, if you get the gt's, you can get evga. the msi 8800gt is overclocked, and with a $20 rebate is less than $200.
 
Silus said:
We are talking to the people that think that Crossfire is not an issue with the X2, as is with a normal dual card setup, but the fact is that it is an issue!

If you can live with that, there's no problem. But we are just trying to enlighten people that think otherwise and may regret it when it's already too late.
Click to expand...

Silus said:
It is an issue, if the game you want to play doesn't scale well with Crossfire and your $450 card performs as a $225 one. But in the end, it's your money, not mine
Click to expand...

I NEVER said that Crossfire wasn't an issue with the X2. I said that it wasn't as much of a gamble because the "crossfiring" is handled directly by the card, and I am right.

"Something you won’t find in the specs is that this video card will work on any PCI-Express X16 capable motherboard. It was widely assumed in the early-going that the card would only work on motherboards that support CrossFire technology. In reality, however, the CrossFire option does not even become available in the Catalyst driver when using this card. All CrossFire connectivity appears to be handled internally, and the computer recognizes the X2 as a single video card."
http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video/amd-radeon-hd-3870-x2-review/page-3

Some motherboards handle crossfire better than others, some are more stable in multi-GPU setups than others. By doing it within the actual card you know it will work on any PCI-Express slot. That's what I was getting at. You're not "gambling" on whether the motherboard will do crossfire well and stable or not because it's done by the card.

Overall FPS is higher on the 3870X2 than on a single GTX. In some games (and 3dMark06) the 3870X2 beats the 8800GT's in SLI. In a few games, however, the 8800GT's will win, and can be had for around the same price, or even less if you watch the sales. If you have an SLI motherboard like I do, there are lots of advantages to the SLI setup. Right now I have a single GT. Works great. runs everything maxxed because I only have a 17" monitor!!!! There's no way I would see a benefit right now if I paid $450 for a 3870X2. When I upgrade to a 22" or 24" monitor I can, however, buy a second GT and gain the performance boost. Multi-GPU settings really shine on those higher resolutions, providing games scale well.


vanilla_guerilla said:
gts in sli. because they perform as good an x2, and if you check the ati forum, you will see that the x2 flickers in some games.. as far as i know, there has not been a fix. also, there are powerplay issues with it downclocking itself at inoportune moments. besides, if you get the gt's, you can get evga. the msi 8800gt is overclocked, and with a $20 rebate is less than $200.
Click to expand...

You're going to find some games that scale better with Crossfire support and some games that do better with SLI, and some that don't take advantage of the multi-GPU at all.

(Thanks to FPS labs for image links)
shoes_r680_3dmark.jpg


3Dmark06 seems to perform better on the 3870X2 than on a single GTX or two GT's in SLI, as does Call of Juarez:

shoes_r680_coj.jpg


Company of heroes, however, performs better on the GTX, GTS, and two GT's in SLI. The two 8800GT's actually outperform everything at seemingly every resolution.

shoes_r680_coh10.jpg


Oblivion doesn't seem to scale at all, as a single GTS w/512 handily beats everything in this game. The 8800GT's in SLI and the X2 don't seem to give Oblivion a boost at all.

shoes_r680_bioshock10.jpg


Results were similar with Bioshock.

The point is, I agree with Silus that there's no simple solution to your question. But it really does take away some of the compatibility/stability gamble. In testing the 3870X2 has proven to be faster and more stable than most 3870 crossfire setups. Your risk is a little less. The clock speeds are also faster on the X2 (per GPU) than on a stock 3870.

But at $259 after rebate for a GTS, it's really hard to justify $450 for a 3870X2. The GTS actually outperforms the GTX in a few games. There are some great buys on 680i mobo's now that they've got the 780i's out. It really depends on where you want to go and what games you're going to play. Like I said, in my situation it makes more sense to get a single GT now and add a second later when I get a bigger screen. How big of a screen are you going to run on your system?
 
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