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U.S. Based Companies Sued For Heat Pipe CPU Coolers
- Thread starter FrgMstr
- Start date
I really hope you're not billing us for this....
Still, you have to put something into Timeslips...
Nice. You have anything to contribute to the discussion or you just looking to increase your postcount?
what about that not make sense? the majority of common computer heatpipe/sinks are filled with regular old H2O under vacuum. due to the phase change gas laws, you could fill the pipes with almost anything as long as you could put enough pressure or pull enough vacuum in the pipe to reach the correct vaporization point of whatever you filled it with, with consideration for the intended use of the heatpipe.
i dont know of specific examples of common computer heatsinks that use refrigerant-type gasses (mostly because plain ole water is much cheaper and less toxic and works just as well), but there are plenty of heatpipes used in the manufacturing world that are filled with refrigerant gasses, acetone, alcohol, etc. it all depends on what they will be used for, what temperatures they need to operate at, and how much heat they need to transport.
in regards to the original topic- there was one sentence that stood out in the patent to me that could hinder a good defense, and that is...
it all depends on how far you can stretch that to encompass aspects that are not described in the patent. i only see a vague similarity between common heatpipe/sink coolers, and what is described in the patent. there are many large dissimilarities.
as for suing a retailer for selling a product that a manufacturer made illegally- thats a classic asshole american (...technologies inc) move. what retailer goes out and searches the patent office library for every single product they carry to make sure whoever is selling them the product actually has the rights to manufacture it? zero. and they shouldnt be expected to. if the patent holder really thinks their property has been infringed upon; start at the top; go after the people doing the infringing, not the 3rd or 4th party down the line.
Velocity_Micro
President & CEO
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Velocity Micro is also part of this shakedown, and I wish it was easy enough to show these guys they are wrong, and these things end. It's not like that - the facts don't always play into it.
For us, we are constant targets of this kind of legal holdup. Right now, we are in 2 other cases, and 4 others are threatening. Our annual legal bills, especially over the past 2-3 years, are just unbelievable. To keep it in perspective, we have already spent the equivalent of 1 person's annual salary on this case alone, and we STILL have not been told specifically what product we sold violates their alleged patents. At least if we knew that, we might be able to get the manufacturer to help or indemnify us, because we don't manufacture any CPU coolers ourselves.
Anything this community can do to help the boutique system builders is greatly appreciated. We just want to be fair, play by the rules, and take care of our customers the right way. I know I speak for the other defendants in this respect.
Welcome to the SI party, everyone!
Randy Copeland
Velocity Micro, Inc.
For us, we are constant targets of this kind of legal holdup. Right now, we are in 2 other cases, and 4 others are threatening. Our annual legal bills, especially over the past 2-3 years, are just unbelievable. To keep it in perspective, we have already spent the equivalent of 1 person's annual salary on this case alone, and we STILL have not been told specifically what product we sold violates their alleged patents. At least if we knew that, we might be able to get the manufacturer to help or indemnify us, because we don't manufacture any CPU coolers ourselves.
Anything this community can do to help the boutique system builders is greatly appreciated. We just want to be fair, play by the rules, and take care of our customers the right way. I know I speak for the other defendants in this respect.
Welcome to the SI party, everyone!
Randy Copeland
Velocity Micro, Inc.
Last edited:
TroubleMagnet
Gawd
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HP would have already sued over this if they were going to. Like many big companies they mainly use their patents to protect new products or as a way to counter-sue in case they are infringing on a patent someone else holds. They're not going to go after a bunch of small fry anyhow, the bad press would outweigh any small profit they could get out of it.
could you comment as to if these cases are in relation to this heatpipe thing? or other patent infringement garbage? or something else altogether? just curious, i understand if you would rather not comment on ongoing legal issues though.
that is pretty ridiculous. its been, what, a month or two since this first started? arent they required to tell you how you are infringing on their patents? they cant (atleast- shouldnt) be able to file blanket lawsuits and hope that you already know what product(s) they think are infringing.
that just sounds like a bunch of women... (well if you dont know what you did wrong, im not going to tell you.....
)you should file a counter suit and try to get a judge to issue a summary judgment as to if they even have ground to stand on. when they are the plaintiff, they are allowed to drag their feet much more then when defending. im sure you have some patent lawyers- what have they said about this? have they said this patent could be considered to resemble a regular CPU heatsink/heatpipe cooler?
i would also be interested to know why the larger retailers got a "hall pass" and were not named in the suit. it could be that they settled out of court, and now american technologies is using their settlement paycheck to bankroll suits forcing the smaller companies to go under. this would benefit both them and the large retailers....
Velocity_Micro
President & CEO
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You are right that I can't go into specifics, but we are being harrassed about a variety of industry standard products besides this cooling issue. They are not related at all, but equally rediculous and do not involve components we make, just what we buy.
The larger guys get a hall pass because these people want to have some smaller victories or settlements to strengthen their cases first before they go after the bigger guys. If they can show that others have lost to them or settled with them, they have a better case that they are right if it goes to court in the future. They are trying to build a story to strengthen their argument before they take on the deeper pockets. Of course, this is just my personal opinion of how this all seems to work.
The larger guys get a hall pass because these people want to have some smaller victories or settlements to strengthen their cases first before they go after the bigger guys. If they can show that others have lost to them or settled with them, they have a better case that they are right if it goes to court in the future. They are trying to build a story to strengthen their argument before they take on the deeper pockets. Of course, this is just my personal opinion of how this all seems to work.
Sometimes they mix in small players and large players - it depends on how good their financial backing is. In the past few years, almost all of my work has been patent litigation (defense) against trolls in the mobile handset space. It's relatively absurd to see what a particular patent covers, as described in the specification, as compared with what the asserter of the patent purports it to claim several years earlier. Most of the time, the plaintiff identifies one common component and sues OEMs who incorporate that component. I imagine this is the same thing Velocity runs in to. I bet we've talked (argued?) with lots of the same people that bother you.
About the best you can do is get good litigation counsel (I'd suggest patent litigators rather than people who split time with litigation and prosecution) and find the pressure point for the other side. If you push hard enough in the right places, you can become enough of a pain in the ass that the other side is willing to let you out cheap. It's about as close to a victory as you can get.
You said before that you don't have a listed of accused devices - this is at least one nice thing about forums that use some variation of the northern district of California's patent rules (obviously Middle District Florida does not). Even without the infringement contentions required of the patent rules, you still should be able to draft an interrogatory seeking accused devices and the basis for the same. Rule 11 requires then to have some basis before filing suit, so they can't duck this question entirely, although they could always add products later (based on what they glean from discovery).
Good luck.
I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in previous pages:
I understand why scumbags try this type of legal blackmail, but how is it that the user of a product can be sued for patent infringement?
I would think that the very nature of patent infringement cases would require litigation against the manufacturers of devices that supposedly infringe.
Why aren't cases automatically tossed out if they aren't against a company that actually manufactures devices?
I understand why scumbags try this type of legal blackmail, but how is it that the user of a product can be sued for patent infringement?
I would think that the very nature of patent infringement cases would require litigation against the manufacturers of devices that supposedly infringe.
Why aren't cases automatically tossed out if they aren't against a company that actually manufactures devices?
A patent gives you an exclusive right, which means that you have the right to exclude others from your invention - including the "use" of the invention.
Tex Arcana
Limp Gawd
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Clue in, dude: this is what the RIAssA/MPAssA have been doing: throwing shit at a lawsuit fan and extorting the ones it sticks to.
Guilty until proven innocent, don'tcha know?
No,I was just looking to stroke the ego they present to you with your JD but I guess that failed.
Sorry sarge.
i am well aware of the garbage the record companies are pulling, but that is a bit different- the record labels are going directly after people who distribute data files that have similar bit structure to data files they claim resemble their intellectual property. there is no money changing hands, its not a business model that the people doing the alleged illegal distributing are following.
in this heatpipe case- the alleged patent holder is going after the guy 5 layers down the food chain, to the retailer, who sits one step above the end user. they are neither going after the individual user, nor the manufacturer. shotgun theory i suppose- aim for the middle and see how many you can hit.
Looking at the docket, looks like the companies are using the simplest method of resolution first: dismissal due to lack of standing. Some of the companies have been dismissed already (OutletPC.com, Raidmax Tech, Inc.)
Also, it looks like Silicon Mountain Holdings, Inc.filed a counter claim to try and invalidate American Tech's patent.
*NOTE: Take all of the above with a huge grain of salt. I'm not an attorney and I don't play one on television. If you want the advice of an attorney, go find one and ask them!
Did you stay at a Holiday In Select?
nissanztt90
2[H]4U
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Doesnt this mean that anyone who bought from any vendor charged in this lawsuit is guilty of patent infringment as well for using said product?
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Any time you want to expose these scumbags and let the public know what is going on, please simply leave the public documents in my inbox. I have spent my fair share on lawyers over the years and feel it is my duty to let the buying public know what kind of bullshit costs have to be passed onto them.
ordovician
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Sigh, the patent system in this country is pretty ridiculous... Isn't the whole point of the patent to protect the innovation from getting copied in the first place? Since when does it allow the innovator to sue not the original party that stole the idea, but the unwitting middleman who simply passes what they believe to be a legitimate product? Anyone see the movie Flash of Genius? That's why we have patents. Not this. Patent laws should protect innovators from having their ideas stolen, not enable them to innovate, allow it to be stolen, then aggressively sue whoever sells their innovation.
gigaxtreme1
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Yeah, like they own phase change. Pfft! All prior art. The "drinking bird" novelty item.
The situation sucks, but this post made me laugh.
No it doesn't. They can't go after end users because end users were not involved in the copying, distribution, or sale of the item in question.
That would be like Coke trying to sue people for drinking a cheaper Coke clone. It just doesn't happen because it would be thrown out of court and a waste of everyone's money.
As far as the patent infringement issue itself, I don't see very high odds of success for this suit as long as the defendants hire competent lawyers. It is possible for them to pool resources and hire a law team, but there are disadvantages to joint representation, so that would be up to how they want to handle it.