upgrades during the recession

[requiemnoise]

How many of your clients and companies are changing their budget strategies in IT? More people are requesting how to maintain XP in the future and asking what other security upgrades will prevent security glitches in the network. Not to mention, this is the first time that many companies are looking into purchasing used PCs.

It seems like there are few things can be done.
1. move users away from IE to Firefox. Firefox will always support older Windows OSes. IE 8 probably only going to be Vista and Windows 7.
2. Block older MSOffice apps from reaching the net.
3. More tighter block list at the transparent proxy servers with real-time scans of AV, malware, and rootkit.
4. Build a home brew LAN routers with xBSD and Linux with a spare PC. It provides a better QoS to utilize the existing 100mps network.
5. Start migrating outdated server apps to open source apps
6. Start rolling out Voip apps to pay less to the telco.

What other things you guys are doing?

 

[gimp]

I work for the state.
nothing has changed.
still buying new Dell Optiplex SFF's and Latitude E6x00's

except for some stupid reason, they pay for Vista Business upgrade, and the XP downgrade.. even though we obviously have an enterprise VLK for XP might be in the contract or something

 

[Fark_Maniac]

with a bit of long-term thinking in mind, wouldn't going the route (no pun intended) of a WatchGuard firewall/router appliance (or something to that effect) be better than taking an old PC and putting time in to build an older PC that would be custom made? Power consumption would be higher for a PC/server and would be more expensive in the long run.

spending just a bit more up front could save the customer in the long run. Power costs should be in everyone's mind as a deciding factor these days. There is value in having a standardized appliance one can call into a customer support.

 

[pxc]

I work for a private company. There's no changes in platform, planned hardware or commercial software roll-outs (and no layoffs). 2009 will be the year Vista starts getting rolled out for users in the company.

BTW, IE8 is available for XP, as it has been since the beginning. That has minimal impact anyways. Companies that use IE often are still using IE6 for application compatibility. At least that's the reason where I work. The stuff I write is tested with IE6, IE7 and FF, but FF is a low priority since everyone has IE anyways. There is legacy stuff that doesn't work with FF and the expense of updating it for a secondary browser is a very low priority.

 

[gimp]

Companies that use IE often are still using IE6 for application compatibility. At least that's the reason where I work. The stuff I write is tested with IE6, IE7 and FF, but FF is a low priority since everyone has IE anyways. There is legacy stuff that doesn't work with FF and the expense of updating it for a secondary browser is a very low priority.

this is true. One of our divisions is using a web-based app that requires IE6. Not to mention, still requires Word 2000 required document template isn't compatible with >Word2k. But, that system is getting upgraded to work through InfoPath 2k7

 

[requiemnoise]

with a bit of long-term thinking in mind, wouldn't going the route (no pun intended) of a WatchGuard firewall/router appliance (or something to that effect) be better than taking an old PC and putting time in to build an older PC that would be custom made? Power consumption would be higher for a PC/server and would be more expensive in the long run.

spending just a bit more up front could save the customer in the long run. Power costs should be in everyone's mind as a deciding factor these days. There is value in having a standardized appliance one can call into a customer support.

All modern CPUs made in the last five years should support CPU scaling. You can always yank out the drive with a dual CF raid and set the CPU scaling to 60% to 100 % burst. Graphic card consumes lots of power, so just yank it out. 100 mps NICs are minimal compare to 1 gigs. Most large router will eat 50w to 250w. It wouldn't be difficult to make x86 routers to eat only 35w to 100w.

BTW, IE8 is available for XP, as it has been since the beginning. That has minimal impact anyways. Companies that use IE often are still using IE6 for application compatibility. At least that's the reason where I work. The stuff I write is tested with IE6, IE7 and FF, but FF is a low priority since everyone has IE anyways. There is legacy stuff that doesn't work with FF and the expense of updating it for a secondary browser is a very low priority.

I'm not sure Firefox should be considered to be a lower priority. Since it has over 40% of market share in Europe. At the current rate, people wouldn't be surprised to reach 50%.
Not to mention, Google phone (Chrome) and Safari shouldn't be taken lightly. OSX has reaching closely to 10% of desktop market.

 

[bigdogchris]

I work for the state.
nothing has changed.
still buying new Dell Optiplex SFF's and Latitude E6x00's

except for some stupid reason, they pay for Vista Business upgrade, and the XP downgrade.. even though we obviously have an enterprise VLK for XP might be in the contract or something

Where I work, all our new machines come in with Vista keys but we put XP on them. The XP enterprise license is only an "upgrade". They have to ship with a full OS lisense.

So pay for full Vista Business on the computer, then pay for the XP Upgrade.

 

[TechieSooner]

1. move users away from IE to Firefox. Firefox will always support older Windows OSes. IE 8 probably only going to be Vista and Windows 7.

As others have said... Still works on XP.

And every corporation has to make the choice at some point to either dump their current vendor for an alternative, or take another route all together. You can't still be running IE6 and Windows 2000 forever, if any reason for security.

2. Block older MSOffice apps from reaching the net.

Not being negative or anything right here, but what good does that do???
Also, admins should know what the heck is on their network... It'd be easier to just upgrade and/or remove old legacy stuff, so why would you block old apps?

3. More tighter block list at the transparent proxy servers with real-time scans of AV, malware, and rootkit.

This isn't just a thing to do recession IMO. This should be done constantly.

4. Build a home brew LAN routers with xBSD and Linux with a spare PC. It provides a better QoS to utilize the existing 100mps network.[/quotes]
Uses a crap load more electricity, as stated. HOWEVER as long as it gives you more features (Which they usually do) IMO it's worth the increase in control.

5. Start migrating outdated server apps to open source apps

I'd agree with that, however again I don't see how it helps budget at all???

6. Start rolling out Voip apps to pay less to the telco.

Unless you're talking about Skype, your VoIP system still has to interface with the telco at some point to access the outside world. It'd really just decrease the costs from your remote branches to your HQ office (which, I've already got remote branches on VoIP).
Only telco cost is what I cannot get away from: outside dialing.

except for some stupid reason, they pay for Vista Business upgrade, and the XP downgrade..

Dell is required to sell a Vista license on their machines.
That's why they come with a Vista key on the sticker on the box.

I still do this. You pay for a Vista license (it isn't any more cost, actually) but then they just ship it with XP on it.


As for me, I'm conscientious about all this stuff from the start, so it's hard for me to cut back on it

 

[requiemnoise]

Not being negative or anything right here, but what good does that do???
Also, admins should know what the heck is on their network... It'd be easier to just upgrade and/or remove old legacy stuff, so why would you block old apps?

just creating a policy in case the user gets fished in. there are no need for word processor to communicate with the internet. office 95 and 97 never had a major security vulnerability expect macro virus.

This isn't just a thing to do recession IMO. This should be done constantly.

of course, security should be a top priority. however, every time enhance the security, you are dealing with a potential support cost. if the quantity of old software are large, it will outweight the return of investment.

I'd agree with that, however again I don't see how it helps budget at all???

having a better way to utilize LAN means 100mps will be sufficient to time to come for the end users. QoS features in rotuers can be very costly. Usually, the traffic shaping is compile in many Linux distros, so no need to even recompile.

Unless you're talking about Skype, your VoIP system still has to interface with the telco at some point to access the outside world. It'd really just decrease the costs from your remote branches to your HQ office (which, I've already got remote branches on VoIP).
Only telco cost is what I cannot get away from: outside dialing.

Sorry, that isn't a true statement. You can save lots of money through different long distance branch. Skype is more ideal for less than 20 people company. Skype has its uses. mid to large companies really wouldn't use Skype.

 

[TechieSooner]

having a better way to utilize LAN means 100mps will be sufficient to time to come for the end users.

I think we will be well out of this recession by the time 100mbps becomes obsolete. 100mbps is still plenty, save for a few industries that are very data intensive (Graphics and video rendering places come to mind). Even running VoIP down the lines doesn't add a whole lot, just as long as QoS of some sort is cutting back the data.

Sorry, that isn't a true statement. You can save lots of money through different long distance branch.

Are you talking about routing calls through the internet? You could do that, but costs in A) a heck of an internet connection (not everywhere has cheap FIOS) and B) Monthly service charges, would probably outweigh it.

Otherwise, you're limited to whoever you can get service to, with your phone lines. Be that MCI, ATT, whoever else you're using... You've still got to pay SOMEONE monthly service to communicate with the outside world. Routing over internet may look cheaper, but factoring in the need for a (usually) dedicated connection as well as one that can handle it, it gets costly... very quickly. That's not even factoring in the equipment charges to replace all your phones with VoIP.

 

[requiemnoise]

I think you should read few things about Session Initiation Protocol.

 

[TechieSooner]

I think you should read few things about Session Initiation Protocol.

What does that have to do anything? That's just a method, a protocol to do a task.
Fact still remains you're shelling out money every month, regardless if you go VoIP or not.

 

[requiemnoise]

What does that have to do anything? That's just a method, a protocol to do a task.
Fact still remains you're shelling out money every month, regardless if you go VoIP or not.

What I am stating is read about VOIP before stating someone is wrong. You can do many things with asterisk if you understand the protocol. Various tweaks can be done with protocol to load balancing things with different branches. When you study any technology, you have to know what's underneath the hood more than the outside of the car. That is all.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'll be honest with you....for our SMB clients, it's like there is no recession. We've been busier doing more server and workstation installs and upgrades over the past 4 months..than more than the entire year put together. We've been swamped...absolutely swamped. And I didn't even get to finish a few projects by end of year..been so swamped.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

with a bit of long-term thinking in mind, wouldn't going the route (no pun intended) of a WatchGuard firewall/router appliance (or something to that effect) be better than taking an old PC and putting time in to build an older PC that would be custom made? Power consumption would be higher for a PC/server and would be more expensive in the long run..

The benefits of some of the *nix router distros can be excellent, take Untangle for example. Kicks the snot out of some of the off the shelf overprice stuff out there, and gives more features IMO.

The cost for an SMB to run a single PC...peh, nothing. See any that really clamp down on turning off all workstations at 5pm? And having the secretaries make sure they power off their old laserjet 4000? There's where the bump in the electric bill comes from, not from losing sleep over 1 single PC that's actually being beneficial 24x7x365.

 

[TechieSooner]

What I am stating is read about VOIP before stating someone is wrong.

And before telling me that I am wrong, prove it to me.

I stated that going VoIP would not decrease costs much, if any at all, due to either new internet connections or the fact that you'd still have to hook to ATT at some point anyway. Throw that in with the fact of new phone equipment: it's not something people need to be doing in a recession.

But instead of showing me how it'd actually save money, you just tell me that I don't know how the protocols work

The benefits of some of the *nix router distros can be excellent, take Untangle for example. Kicks the snot out of some of the off the shelf overprice stuff out there, and gives more features IMO.

Yea, that's what I was saying too... It's worth the additional electricity IMO when you get some many features like Untangle gives you.

The spam blocking capabilities are SECOND TO NONE. Companywide, I'd probably guess 1 spam email per day gets through on about 50% of the inboxes. Naturally I don't check it but as far as I've gathered... it does great.
User-manageable quarantines are fantastic as well... No more bugging IT Department to release emails. So in a way, Untangle's electricity saves on IT labor costs.

 

[TechieSooner]

Actually, another way you can cut back is just power usage settings in general.

It's another one of those things Server 2008/Vista you can push out domainwide. AFAIK you cannot do it in Server 2003/XP.

The problem I've ran into is if I have to push out AV or any other software upgrades during the evening, and everyone's PCs are asleep. They wake up for Windows Updates but for things like that they don't.
The best compromise I've had is just having the monitors shut off after 15 minutes.

 

[requiemnoise]

And before telling me that I am wrong, prove it to me.

I stated that going VoIP would not decrease costs much, if any at all, due to either new internet connections or the fact that you'd still have to hook to ATT at some point anyway. Throw that in with the fact of new phone equipment: it's not something people need to be doing in a recession.

But instead of showing me how it'd actually save money, you just tell me that I don't know how the protocols work

Because you don't.
Sometimes, you can't learn things from forums, because everyone is asking for one paragraph answers. Why would you need to use ATT if you are using VOIP? ATT owns VOIP? Is that what you are saying? What is ATT got to do with VOIP? This only tells me you never bothered to look into how VOIP works. I can't do all your homework for you. Sometimes, we all have to go to Amazon and pick up a book or do our own research instead of asking people for various links. Do I really need to do various search around the net for you and find links? Not to mention, your tone of negativity shines high on this forum. If you are asking a question or trying to learn, you have to ask in a polite way. Why would I bother if you can easily learn it yourself. If you want someone to find things for you, you need to be show more manners. Learn to ask nicer instead of constantly tell me I don't know what I am talking about, then annoyingly beg me for answers.

Yea, that's what I was saying too... It's worth the additional electricity IMO when you get some many features like Untangle gives you.
The spam blocking capabilities are SECOND TO NONE. Companywide, I'd probably guess 1 spam email per day gets through on about 50% of the inboxes. Naturally I don't check it but as far as I've gathered... it does great.
User-manageable quarantines are fantastic as well... No more bugging IT Department to release emails. So in a way, Untangle's electricity saves on IT labor costs.

People use routers in LAN too. Actually, a lot more than something that sits front of the firewall. If you assume companies have only one gateway, I think you are way off. QoS routers can be used anywhere you need to balance a network. Any companies that have way too much overload of port 445. Also, there are more than 65 Linux router distros. Untangle is just one of it.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Also, there are more than 65 Linux router distros. Untangle is just one of it.

But a darned good example of why the costs of running an extra PC 24x7x365 can be well worth it, versus more limited functionality yet lower AC costs of a little off the shelf overpriced OEM UTM box.

 

[TechieSooner]

Why would you need to use ATT if you are using VOIP? ATT owns VOIP? Is that what you are saying? What is ATT got to do with VOIP?

Who the hell is going to route the calls if you call 1-800-WALMART or something like that?
Your internal VoIP system won't do it.

Here's a memory refresher, from your OP.

6. Start rolling out Voip apps to pay less to the telco.

So, how are you decreasing costs by just moving VoIP in house? You're still paying ATT or whoever your local telco is to connect you to the outside world. PLUS you added a large cost in this recession of buying new VoIP hardware.

This seriously isn't rocket science.

People use routers in LAN too. Actually, a lot more than something that sits front of the firewall. If you assume companies have only one gateway, I think you are way off. QoS routers can be used anywhere you need to balance a network. Any companies that have way too much overload of port 445. Also, there are more than 65 Linux router distros. Untangle is just one of it.

We're inferior to your great supreme knowledge, apparently. I bow in your presence.



Where did I ever say that was only something you could do on a border device? I've never seen someone try so many Strawman arguments.

 

[requiemnoise]

Listen... I don't think you are even a tech personal. You have a knowledge of generic recruiter. No wonder we stop hiring Generation Y techies. They think they are gods, because they grow up with XP and Vista. They assume computers mean VISTA. You need to research about various VOIP codecs (like i mentioned it before it will involve understanding SIP), how to utilize QoS to maximize your existing WAN bandwidth, look for bandwidth calculators that can show you how many stimulus conversations can take place with an existing bandwidth, learn various contracts can be negotiated with your carrier, also even look into a frame relay for voip, etc. Also, look up different SIP carriers. If the company is large enough, you can even become a SIP carrier. Since most small SIP carriers are nothing, but resellers to large SIP carriers. Also, look into how to do a direct connection to different branches. If you want to know more, install Asterisk. Asterisk is highly scalable. It is no longer a hobby VOIP app. It is used widely by many telemarketing firms.

 

[TechieSooner]

1) I use SIP everyday, Most Holy. That's not what my question was for.
2) You didn't answer my question in the least bit, you're just avoiding the answer. Were you talking out of your ass, got called on it, and now can't formulate an answer or what???

 

[requiemnoise]

Listen, I can tell you are just an user who are trying to learn and trying to become an admin. I really think you are doing a great job. But, in order to get information out of people, you need to learn a better way to get free help on various forums. You don't curse at someone and later and ask "how to do this?"

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Listen... I don't think you are even a tech personal.

What is a "tech personal"....like a "Dear Abby" column?

 

[requiemnoise]

What is a "tech personal"....like a "Dear Abby" column?

LOL.. It must be something close.

 

[TechieSooner]

Listen, I can tell you are just an user who are trying to learn and trying to become an admin. I really think you are doing a great job. But, in order to get information out of people, you need to learn a better way to get free help on various forums. You don't curse at someone and later and ask "how to do this?"

Where the hell was I asking for help??? I'm asking how you're planning on cutting your monthly bills by going VoIP, and you've yet to answer.

Fastest move to iggy list... ever...

 

[CommanderFrank]

Alrighty then, that was fun....I think this can close now.