Used CD Legislation Slows Used Game Sales

I'm also a 100% born and raised Florida cracker, and just in case anyone was left wondering, the Florida legislature has been the most ineffective law making body in the United States for at least the last 15 years. The legislature does NOTHING of substance. It's gotten so bad, that when the citizens tried to start making laws of their own by voting on referendums (since the lawmakers weren't doing anything) that they decided to change the regulations for getting referendums on the ballot in the first place because they were so embarassed over the whole thing. It's utterly ridiculous, and I'm pissed that I'm paying their salaries.

Once again, my voting habits are justified - if you're incumbent, you're OUT. Our "career politicians" are the root of what's wrong here.
 
jwp27577 said:
I know of no other business where profits of used products are shared with the original maker. Used car dealers don't share their profits from selling used Fords with Ford. Even if a Ford dealer sells used cars, Ford doesn't see a dime of it. Used book sellers don't share their profits with the book publishers. Why should game developers/publishers be treated any different? Maybe if the developers "passed more value" to the gaming public (instead of say, pushing betas on us as final), we would be more inclined to by a new product instead of a used one.
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PRECISELY what I was thinking!!!!! Why should they be paid multiple times for the same item???? No one else is. Nor should they be.

They are only getting *greedy* and trying to go the route of the RIAA, and use fear against the merchants this time to stop people from having as many available outlets for secondhand purchase. If they produced better games new out of the box, or perhaps lowered their pricing at retail for new games, perhaps the desire to buy a new game over a used one would be substantially more appealing. I will never spend more than $30 for a new release, for *any* platform. I'd rather wait til the price drops to within reason. (I'm still an artwork/original 'nut') ;) lol

BladeVenom said:
This kind of nonsense is just going to drive more people to piracy.
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Where's any motivation to steal, since they're trying to sell something they already own in the first place?? They damned sure can't sell/pawn an illegal copy of a movie, music cd, or software. Sorry, but I just don't follow your train of thought at all. :confused:

Defconn1 said:
I think this is a good thing. The harder it is to sell stolen items for money the less theft there will be. I've always noticed around my home town that as soon as pawn shops came around, theft and crime in general seemed to spike.

Getting ID and taking fingerprints shouldn't bug people who are doing nothing wrong (which btw I hate even saying that, because I generally disagree with that statement, but in this case it rings true). This is only going to slow people from stealing since they won't have a quick outlet to get money.
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There's no practical way to trace an original cd or dvd since there are no serial numbers. Fingerprints perhaps, But in several years of being friends with police, and also working at a pawnshop, NOT ONCE have they ever gone in to a place of business for prints on a cd/movie/whatever -and yes, we've talked about it. Theft spiking because of pawnshops being in your area??? Not a chance. :rolleyes: Look harder at your locale for the REAL cause.

Theft *usually* only spikes because of major downward changes, or continued stagnation of an already depressed economic status of an area. (I do however have to completely agree with your final statement :) (It would avert more stolen goods, but would *completely* dissuade an honest consumer who's in dire need -eg: eletricity getting shut off etc). So, where do they draw the line that's within reason IF they choose to do this?

Unless Florida (and other states mentioned) have been experiencing an *ongoing* and severe theft problem, this almost *has to have* far less to do with stolen goods, than it does at being attempted legislation for getting additional slices of a pie they have no hand in. The latter sounds more plausible to me. It's being "pushed/marketed" with the premise that it'll also help in regards to theft. This way, Joe Public might find it easier to swallow, and not raise a stink that might defeat such a bill were it standing on the single sole merit.

Sole Merit: "Stricter laws in Florida and Utah aim to hamper the sale of used merchandise such as CDs and video games, with similar legislation underway in Wisconsin and Rhode Island."

And now the marketing hype: "Such a process is meant to stem the trafficking of stolen goods and facilitate the ease with which authorities track thieves and return stolen items to owners."

And even more greed: "The state now requires all retailers selling second-hand CDs to acquire a permit and invest in a $10,000 security bond through the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services."

If this was a legitimate concern of protecting the consumers, why the hell couldn't they structure any "fund" created/required of said businesses that this law should theoretically apply to, and donate some amount (ie: on a predetermined loss percentage basis) to the victims of said thefts/burglaries/etc? And what the hell does Agriculture have to do with Consumer Services?? Might as well lump the oil industry with the better business bureau.. Oi.

I can sympathize with those that have been ripped off. I have as well, for nearly $7000 of gear and cd's, in one shot. (Almost 400 cd's included) So don't think I don't understand. I just know the hard reality. From both sides mind you.

By chance (read as: not initial desire), I've worked at a pawnshop for several years now ironically. And seeing things from the inside out, more often than not, items are not, I repeat NOT stolen. 98-99% of the goods in most corporate pawnshops are 'clean'. Just hard working people trading, selling, moving, paying bills, trying to live an honest life and doing the best they can, and of course sometimes running short on money. At least thats the fact at the store I'm at. Mom-n-Pop stores however, *can be* a quite different story...

As far as we go, we don't even take cd's or pc games. Not worth the space they occupy. (eg: You can place a GPS or satellite radio where 10 cd's sit) So this law would really be moot for us, But I very much support the right for people to be able to sell/loan their merchandise without unreasonable condiitons (such as in-store credit).

Chances are more likely, that most stolen goods will go into the "black market" or local underground that will never be traced or found, or see the light of day. :(

jstnomega said:
Further proof that every elected official deserves to be severely beaten about the head & shoulders w/a 32 oz. Louisville slugger. Whores.
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Only those who come up with such extremist ideas such as this. ;)
 
People seem to be getting sidetracked into namecalling on this one. :rolleyes:

Most states have laws in place governing the operation of a pawn shop, requirements for record-keeping, and holding periods before goods can be sold. As far as I know, very few, if any, Gamestops, Blockbusters, or local game shops adhere to these requirements. Most other places dealing specificly in used music and movies probably don't either. If you want to combat theft crimes, start enforcing pawn shop laws on all places acting in a similar fashion to a pawn shop.

When the new laws target only at a subset of the resale industry, and are more restrictive than standard regulations, it does seem there's another agenda at work. Although, I'm thinking this is probably more related to music sales, given the relatively mediocre sales figures lately. As opposed to games or DVDs sales, which are still growing steadily.


The whole secondary game market discussion is pretty separate from this issue I think. There are points on both sides of the issue, given that games are often unlike music, in that you buy a game, play it until you finish it, maybe play it a little more, and then you're done with it. There is the occasional game that's a keeper, but by and large, a video game has a pretty short lifespan for any one person.
On the other hand, tastes change, but you generally buy CDs to listen to repeatedly. There are discs I've played hundreds of times and not gotten tired of, and even when I do take a break, I'll still usually want to hear it again eventually.

I can see publishers being unhappy about a marketing campaign for a game, along with paid placements and marketing subsidies, only to have their sale sniped at the end by the used copy that's five bucks cheaper. On the other hand, why would a game store sell a new copy for five dollar profit when they can sell a used copy for twenty-five dollar profit?
 
Just what everybody needs - more useless government regulations! You know, since it's worked so well to put an end to piracy in the past...

jstnomega said:
Further proof that every elected official deserves to be severely beaten about the head & shoulders w/a 32 oz. Louisville slugger. Whores.
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You just have to marvel at how so many mentally disordered politicians manage to consistently get elected to positions of power. I'm convinced that the density of a person's head in this country is directly proportional to the amount of power they wield.
 
Can anyone explain (with supporting references) how it is acceptable for places like Gamespot and the like, to sell opened games as "New". It would appear that after the game has been opened, it could no longer be sold as a "new retail goods".

For instance, our local gamestop has the policy of breaking the factory seal and opening games and then USING the box as a display. Then when someone wants to purchase the game, they take the display box to the counter and the employee handles the disc, putting it back into the case. When a freind asked if he could get an unopened game, the manager gave him all sorts of grief, explaing how they were "trained" to handle the games. This made me giggle.

If I purchase a game, especially to given as a gift, I really dont want it to be opened.

I was in a Walmart the other day and overheard a CSR telling a grandmother that due to some copyright law, they could not refund any DVD, CD, game or Software once the factory seal had been opened. The only option was exchange for the exact same product. Once the grandmother walked away, I had to ask if that was really true. A manager walked over and attempted to confirm, giving the same copyright law song and dance.


Any info would be greatly appriciated.

TIA
 
Elios said:
that takes time this is meant to stop the meth heads from shoplifting and selling the games to get a quick fix
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There is a fucking law that says don't fucking steal! This country is so pussy whipped today that people just let unconstitutional and unnecessary laws like this get passed. If the bought-and-paid-for law makers have a fucking problem with Gamestop buying stolen goods then they need to find some other way to deal with it without harassing every Tom, Dick, and Harry thats just wants to sell their old used system. Jesus Christ! This country is going to end up burning in hell one day, if this shit continues.
 
Kristofff said:
There is a fucking law that says don't fucking steal! This country is so pussy whipped today that people just let unconstitutional and unnecessary laws like this get passed. If the bought-and-paid-for law makers have a fucking problem with Gamestop buying stolen goods then they need to find some other way to deal with it without harassing every Tom, Dick, and Harry thats just wants to sell their old used system. Jesus Christ! This country is going to end up burning in hell one day, if this shit continues.
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you dont get it do you

the meth addicts out here will steal LIVE power lines for the copper >.> just to get the money for there fix

see it the problem now?
 
damn lack of edit

also wanted to add that these stores are acting like pawn shops and there are laws on the books that they have to follow and the thing is the game stores ARE NOT following them

i guess you have never sold any thing at a pawn shop in your life :eek:
 
What an utter load of CRAP!

This one sentence says it all:

"but there is a problem right now in that used game sales are a market that does not provide revenue to the game maker."

Excuse me, but you made your money when the game was first sold.

What's next, outlawing the private sale of cars because the auto dealers don't get a cut?

This smacks of government manipulation by corporations, not that this suprises me.

Follow the contributions. You'll find out where this is coming from eventually...
 
Yeah, you folks in Florida are getting double-Bush'd. That's really gotta suck :(

devolutionist said:
I'm also a 100% born and raised Florida cracker, and just in case anyone was left wondering, the Florida legislature has been the most ineffective law making body in the United States for at least the last 15 years. The legislature does NOTHING of substance. It's gotten so bad, that when the citizens tried to start making laws of their own by voting on referendums (since the lawmakers weren't doing anything) that they decided to change the regulations for getting referendums on the ballot in the first place because they were so embarassed over the whole thing. It's utterly ridiculous, and I'm pissed that I'm paying their salaries.

Once again, my voting habits are justified - if you're incumbent, you're OUT. Our "career politicians" are the root of what's wrong here.
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Elios said:
you dont get it do you

the meth addicts out here will steal LIVE power lines for the copper >.> just to get the money for there fix

see it the problem now?
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No, not really. Tell your cops to patrol more if it's such a problem. The government has no reason to screw with everyone else. Stop mitigating these bullshit laws!
 
Elios said:
...
these stores are acting like pawn shops and there are laws on the books that they have to follow and the thing is the game stores ARE NOT following them
...
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This is my point exactly. If the real goal is to curb crime by making petty theft harder to profit from, start by making every store that acts like a pawn shop follow the rules for a pawn shop.

If the goal is to stifle the second-hand market for media, in the hope of increasing new unit sales, then this legislation seems to be right on target.
 
Sprkslfly said:
Where's any motivation to steal, since they're trying to sell something they already own in the first place?? They damned sure can't sell/pawn an illegal copy of a movie, music cd, or software. Sorry, but I just don't follow your train of thought at all. :confused:
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People sell their old games and CDs to help pay for new games and CDs. If they are deprived of the trade in money they may just pirate their next game or CD.
 
Defconn1 said:
Getting ID and taking fingerprints shouldn't bug people who are doing nothing wrong (which btw I hate even saying that, because I generally disagree with that statement, but in this case it rings true). This is only going to slow people from stealing since they won't have a quick outlet to get money.
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Kinda like people who haven't committed a crime shouldn't mind if the Police check their house to make sure they really haven't committed a crime.

They have no need for finger prints. Checking an ID is more than enough. And how exactly do you prove that a CD is stolen? I can promise you that less than dozen of my 300+ CDs have any distinguishing characteristics.


stabilep said:
I think giving only store credit would make the most sense. I don't see the reason for the id and fingerprinting.

Originally I saw this and I was like WTH...but now that I think about it, prevention of people stealing is actually a valid reason. Cars are harder to steal and more difficult to offload for a variety of reasons versus in an intercity area virtually all kids probably have some sort of video game console even in the lower income areas. Thus the low security large availability and the ease of selling it all off without the ability to easily track the sale makes it a very lucrative target for theft.
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Actually, stealing cars aren't hindered by anything like this. Most stolen cars are never resold, they're stripped down and sold for parts, because they're worth more that way.

Ask yourself this: If I break in and steal your Xbox games, how are you going to prove that the games at some pawnshop (or Game Stop) are yours? If you can't do that, then getting my fingerprint/ID has done nothing.

Now I'm not against asking for an ID, but store credit is kinda lousy. Maybe I like to sell my old games, but that doesn't mean I want to pay the inflated prices of that same store. Maybe I prefer to go to Fry's or by online and pay less. All this does is inconvenience the legitimate owners.
 
Game publishers want in on used games sales well then by god start your own stores. Otherwise all this will do is jack the prices of new games because the profit margin as is on new games is tiny and unable to support the overhead of companies like Gamestop/EB. Although they could just start bundling strategy guides, accessories, whatever...but either way the consumer is going to pay more.


Oh and the crime side arguement is bull. Just make it instore credit only, problem solved.
 
Although they could just start bundling strategy guides, accessories, whatever...but either way the consumer is going to pay more.
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That's actually illegal if that's the only way they sell it.
 
Sorry won't let me edit. I meant to say if that's the only way they sell the game, if they offer it stand-alone there is no problems at all.
 
I've had my car broken into and my cd player and cds stolen, and of course the crack head crook got away with it so I can see where this law is coming from. The cop that investigated my break in did find they guy(or girl??)'s prints and so the fingerprinting idea in this law, albeit ridiculous, may have some potential for nabbing criminals.

That said, there is no way I'd ever bother selling used anything if I had to bother with that shit. I am no criminal and I have nothing to hide although I don't like being treated like a criminal.

As was mentioned earlier, make used games/CDs store credit only. Junkies don't care about store credit, problem solved.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Game publishers want in on used games sales well then by god start your own stores.
....
Oh and the crime side arguement is bull. Just make it instore credit only, problem solved.
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I agree with your first comment completely.

I do however question your final thought. If the crime aspect wasn't still on your mind however, I can't see why anyone would settle for store credit when the cash could be desired for other things. (replacing a flat tire, groceries, a fun evening out with friends, ehatever). Why let some polotician decide how you spend your money when YOU hold the bargaining tool in your hand in the first place??? What if they did the same with your paycheck depending on where you worked? "Ok 'Joe' You worked x hours, you can take home this, this, or that. Or, we also have working agreements with x, y, and z companies, your paycheck is also good there." You wouldn't have it.

Why should we *voluntarily* (read as: by inaction) give up the right to sell ANYTHING we own??? Because to me, in essence that's what's suggested if you condone in-store credit only when given the circumstance/positions of this particular proposition.

Control. That's what this all boils down to. Will it then become illegal to sell anything used outside of the approved locations/businesses? What about flea markets? Yard sales? Just how far do you think they would press this type of mentality if everything goes unchecked?

What If you're told you can only barter for your car, or house, or land...to be left standing with only a credit voucher, you'd most likely say "There's no way in hell I'll do that!" Granted. Yes we're only talking tiny pieces of plastic here. But why allow them to set a precedent such as that?

If you don't see our rights as honest consumers fading into the distance further and further by complacency alone, you're apt to be left very confused when your eyes finally do open. Things like this should not be allowed to go unchecked. And that's the bottom line.
 
Sprkslfly said:
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They can give cash for all I care. Politicians like to make the arguements about crime.....if they really wanted to corner the crime issue they would make it credit only. However, they don't really care about the crime angle....which was kind of my point about the crime arguement being bull.
 
I really am amazed by the mentality of some people. This country is founded on the idea of a free market and the constitution, yet every day people are more than glad to give integral parts of those up.

When people have to sell off game collections to pay bills and they find out that all they can buy is more games because some stupid fucking politicians thought this would be a good idea and the sheeple followed, there are going to be some pissed of poor people.

And don't say people don't sell games to pay bills because I've seen people have sell off every console and game they had.
 
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