Using a legal Linksys wireless router is illegal? I didn't know that.

I'm kind of confused here....

The signal leakage thing (your neighbors signal being present in your house) is not illegal. Time Warner shouldn't have any reason to be concerned about that, and shouldn't have any right to tell your neighbor to move the router or anything.

You using his internet connection is probably against Time Warner's Terms of Service. I don't see how Time Warner could know that you're doing it though. If he knows and has given permission for you to use the wireless signal, then it's not illegal as far as theft of his personal property.

I'm thinking "signal leakage" might mean there's something wrong with the coax cable coming into your apartment.
 
Boscoh said:
You using his internet connection is probably against Time Warner's Terms of Service. I don't see how Time Warner could know that you're doing it though. If he knows and has given permission for you to use the wireless signal, then it's not illegal as far as theft of his personal property.
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It's possible to guess at the number of systems on a connection under the right circumstances. For instance, a tcp/ip device should deduct 1 from the TTL value before passing the packet on. Therefore, packets coming from your link would look slightly different than packets coming form his computer, unless he was running off of a second device as well.

Of course, with a linux box, you can just rewrite the TTL before it leaves the box. ;)

WEP, btw, is anything but casual hacker proof. I think it's breakable in something like 2 minutes now. WPA is what you should have in this situation.
 
XOR != OR said:
It's possible to guess at the number of systems on a connection under the right circumstances. For instance, a tcp/ip device should deduct 1 from the TTL value before passing the packet on. Therefore, packets coming from your link would look slightly different than packets coming form his computer, unless he was running off of a second device as well.

Of course, with a linux box, you can just rewrite the TTL before it leaves the box. ;)

WEP, btw, is anything but casual hacker proof. I think it's breakable in something like 2 minutes now. WPA is what you should have in this situation.
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yeah but even so, they can't tell if he has a laptop in his house somewhere else.
 
XOR != OR said:
It's possible to guess at the number of systems on a connection under the right circumstances. For instance, a tcp/ip device should deduct 1 from the TTL value before passing the packet on. Therefore, packets coming from your link would look slightly different than packets coming form his computer, unless he was running off of a second device as well.
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Right, but if he's behind a router then his traffic will look the same as traffic from any other computer behind that same router...which is I think what you were saying.

Anyhow, how many cable companies know how many PC's are at someone's house? I dont ever remember a cable tech walking around any of my residences to look for and document computers.
 
Its more likely the TimeWarner diagnostic equipment is detecting the presence of more TV/CABLE loads on the line than is allowed. The signal strength/spectrum analyzer equipment they have can tell if you have a couple extra TV's hocked up beyond what you're paying for.

Or the signal is messed up and they have complaints from neighbor's and are trying to figure out where the issue is.... a short, etc.

Not likely relevent to the router/internet service at all.
 
It is definitely against Comcast TOS to deliberately share your service through a wireless/wired AP.
 
ubern00b15 said:
yeah but even so, they can't tell if he has a laptop in his house somewhere else.
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No, but sharing out a connect is generally banned in TOS. At least they were a couple years ago. I don't think anything has changed.

So if they detected two different TTL values on the packets coming off his connection, that'd be an indication of more than one system. Granted, they aren't generally going to check for this, hence they'd have to have a good reason to be checking to begin with.

Boscoh said:
Right, but if he's behind a router then his traffic will look the same as traffic from any other computer behind that same router...which is I think what you were saying.
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Again, depends on the device. I don't exactly know how consumer routers handle it, but I'd be willing to be they deduct TTL values instead of rewriting.

Just a guess mind you. I'm willing to bet it's the cable signal leaking from the coax more than anything else.
 
ubern00b15 said:
Aparently at school today, Time Warner showed up at my neighbor's while they were not home and they were on the roof and shit, looking around. They left a ticket on the door saying that they needed to make an appointment with Time Warner because they needed access to the apartment. They said on the ticket that their reason for concern was signal leakage.
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This has nothing to do with wireless.

Signal leakage means they probably need to upgrade the wiring because the CATV signal is causing some local interference. (For instance, where I live Adelphia will not provide my building service because they would have to upgrade the CATV lines thoughout the entire building to prevent it from interfering with the airfield(about 200yds away)).

If you were causing some type of interference with your wireless, it would be the FCC who visited you, not TW.
 
KoZLop said:
Maybe the wireless router (G/B)2.4ghz is interupting cordless phones.


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/sig_leak.html <- I just read that and it kinda makes some sence.
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Yeah, but isn't every single electronic device in some sort of weird-ass limbo category where it is wholly possible for them to receive and/or transmit electronic interference?

You buy into this "policy" when the item is purchased and used.
 
While you will have to read the TOS to ensure this, it is technically not illegal to share the connection provided you are not compensating your neighbor in any way for the use of the connection.

Most ISPs have come to terms that they are not going to be able to wring out an additional $7+ a month for each computer beyond the first that connects to the service.

He is not reselling the bandwidth, you are not performing any kind of illegal action via his connection, he has given you full consend to utilize his equipment/connection. Saying that sharing your connection out via a router is like saying you can't put a splitter on your cable line to go to two TVs without buying a box for each TV. We all saw how that turned out. :rolleyes:

Now if the TOS specifically states that all devices utilizing the connection must be located on the same physical property, then you're SOL but I haven't seen a TOS like that since the days of "routers violate our TOS" crap. Simple way to argue and win with them, do they sell routers as a part of installation or their service. If so then no, using a router is NOT against TOS as them ruling you must use their router can be viewed by the FCC as monopolistic control and a huge no no.
 
The last time I read the TOS for Time Warner, it stated more or less that you connection was for your residence/address. Any type of sharing of that connection outside of your residence is prohibited. Though, it has bee a couple years since I read it.
 
MorfiusX said:
The last time I read the TOS for Time Warner, it stated more or less that you connection was for your residence/address. Any type of sharing of that connection outside of your residence is prohibited. Though, it has bee a couple years since I read it.
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Yep, you and XOR are correct. See Comcast's subscriber agreement, 6.c:

Multiple Users: The Service and the Comcast Equipment shall be used only by you and by members of your immediate household living with you at the same address.
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Sharing with a neighbor is not allowed.
 
heh.. no sharing with neighbors? darn.. I like our network of 4 apartments. My roommate & I split the bill once every 4 months.
 
I just talked to a customer service rep and he said that as long as it's not for business use or I'm paying for it, it's fine. They said that they don't restrict the use of wireless routers, and for this sort of usage it's ok.
 
ubern00b15 said:
I just talked to a customer service rep and he said that as long as it's not for business use or I'm paying for it, it's fine. They said that they don't restrict the use of wireless routers, and for this sort of usage it's ok.
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for teh w1n

I wouldn't imagine they'd be up in arms about the person who's paying the bill being generous and letting someone else leech off of it so long as they're not using it for buisness or charging.
 
I am guessing this is a RF/Coax cable issue and not a WiFi Access Point issue. I can't see them saying no wireless when so many people use it. Charter in my area does the same thing when they want to upgrade splitters and cable.
 
Yeah, most likely just cabling issue. When we got the Comcast HD Tivo it was more "sensitive" then the usual box, and we actually had to alter the wiring of cable in the house to clear up the interference we were getting.
 
Dew said:
This has nothing to do with wireless.

Signal leakage means they probably need to upgrade the wiring because the CATV signal is causing some local interference. (For instance, where I live Adelphia will not provide my building service because they would have to upgrade the CATV lines thoughout the entire building to prevent it from interfering with the airfield(about 200yds away)).

If you were causing some type of interference with your wireless, it would be the FCC who visited you, not TW.
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This man knows of what he speaks.

I work with a cable company as a consultant and fix their computer stuff. Leakage typically occurs due to broken sheilding on a cable or poorly crimped cables, etc... They're not talking about a Linksys router transmitting beyond the owner's walls in some mysterious techno speak.
 
0ldman said:
This man knows of what he speaks.

I work with a cable company as a consultant and fix their computer stuff. Leakage typically occurs due to broken sheilding on a cable or poorly crimped cables, etc... They're not talking about a Linksys router transmitting beyond the owner's walls in some mysterious techno speak.
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Who da thunk my satellite communications and controller training would have come in handy. :D
 
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