Valve Banning Grey Import Modern Warfare 2 CD Keys

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kumquatsrus

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http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51583/Valve-Banning-Grey-Import-Modern-Warfare-2-CD-Keys

"Whether Activision has the right to have legally purchased keys disabled is now a hot topic. EULAs state that you simply own a license, and that the manufacturer can do whatever it likes to your purchase at any time. Affected users counter by stating that never accepted an EULA before or after the purchase of their key."

interesting...guess we really don't own any games, just "licenses".
 
This is nothing new coming from valve. They have banned in the past for other games purchased from Asian sellers.
 
kumquatsrus said:
interesting...guess we really don't own any games, just "licenses".
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Been true for the longest. I've been wondering since I was a kid though why they haven't come up with a cliff notes-esque summary to put at the end of software EULAs to highlight all the important concerns for the average person.
 
banning users who purchased legitimate keys from playing doesn't seem like good business practice to me. but i guess if you only own a license to play, then the licensors can do whatever they want if it starts to affect their bottom line.
 
technically the rule states that the only thing you own when buying a game is the key and the right to play the game.. so its not really anything new.. hence why the copyright laws in the US are completely flawed.. its just a loop hole in the rules that game developers take advantage of..
 
And if you don't want these oversea's sales to happen as a game company, you should region lock your games and force region-only languages. This should be a trivial process with things like Steam by now. And although I disagree with region locking, banning legitimate cdkeys is much worse for the PC gaming industry.
 
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How about not supporting these companies that use these kinds of methods of region locking.
I could not be bothered buying anything that uses steam anyway.

On principle alone these companies deserve not a penny by screwing over their customers and thinking they can get away with it
 
shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone. Valve has done this many times in the past... loosing your entire steam account is not worth saving a few $$$ on a game
 
This wasn't Valve's decision. This was Activision's decision. And then they say EA is evil. Screw Activision, one more reason to hate them (after the whole MW2 fiasco).


Also this doesn't affect only the people who bought from those sites, think overseas gifts. No more buying games while you are on holidays for you!
 
I still would have to believe it's partly the customers fault when they buy a CD key knowing it's from the grey market to begin with.
 
Sent said:
I still would have to believe it's partly the customers fault when they buy a CD key knowing it's from the grey market to begin with.
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Yep. When you see a game that retails @ $59.99 going for $30 bucks at release, something's fishy. :p
 
Just because you bought it doesn't make it a legitimate key. If you go to China town and pay someone 10$ for a copy of Windows does that make it a legitimate copy? Of course not.
 
I think the issue is that these keys were purchased in foreign countries where the price is lower to combat piracy, and then resold to customers in higher paying countries. The game should have been region locked to prevent this, but because it wasn't, Activision/Valve is banning them outright, in effect, screwing the end consumer. And people wonder why there's piracy!
 
Kbomb84 said:
I think the issue is that these keys were purchased in foreign countries where the price is lower to combat piracy, and then resold to customers in higher paying countries. The game should have been region locked to prevent this, but because it wasn't, Activision/Valve is banning them outright, in effect, screwing the end consumer. And people wonder why there's piracy!
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Yup, lot cheaper to pay $50 for a game then 60 Euro or Pounds.
 
What exactly is the grey market, like keys of ebay (that are probably stolen or something)?. Is grey market any place that isnt a big box games store or steam?
 
Mystic-Micro said:
What exactly is the grey market, like keys of ebay (that are probably stolen or something)?. Is grey market any place that isnt a big box games store or steam?
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Grey Market imports, they're legit in another country. Like cars, you can have a grey market import for certain models that are in demand.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Just because you bought it doesn't make it a legitimate key. If you go to China town and pay someone 10$ for a copy of Windows does that make it a legitimate copy? Of course not.
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Except that these were legitimate keys.

What people are failing to understand on this is that Activision sells these keys cheap over there to curb piracy. Companies then find they can make way more money exporting those keys to other countries and make a larger profit even by selling it for a lower amount than that countries retail price.

I'm surprised no lawyers have dived on this one. First right of sale could be argued on this and hopefully take a stab at breaking up the stupid license crap that retail software holds.

You don't buy a car with a contract that says that you are only allowed to fill it with QT gasoline and you license to use your car is retractable if you do. Software is no different anymore. It has moved from the specialization to commodity level and should be treated as so.
 
Mystic-Micro said:
What exactly is the grey market, like keys of ebay (that are probably stolen or something)?. Is grey market any place that isnt a big box games store or steam?
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yeah, sometimes ebay. There are online shops that also sell them. They're not stolen keys, they're purchased from asia (where games are much much cheaper) and resold in the west for a profit. It's not illegal per se, hence the "gray market" term
 
jgoewert said:
Except that these were legitimate keys.

What people are failing to understand on this is that Activision sells these keys cheap over there to curb piracy. Companies then find they can make way more money exporting those keys to other countries and make a larger profit even by selling it for a lower amount than that countries retail price.

I'm surprised no lawyers have dived on this one. First right of sale could be argued on this and hopefully take a stab at breaking up the stupid license crap that retail software holds.

You don't buy a car with a contract that says that you are only allowed to fill it with QT gasoline and you license to use your car is retractable if you do. Software is no different anymore. It has moved from the specialization to commodity level and should be treated as so.
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the problem is that it's an international issue, so most laws don't apply like they would if it was only happening in the states or the UK or something. Not only that, but I'd be surprised if ANY publisher didn't have some sort of contract telling vendors that they can only sell keys specific to the customers region... or risk the keys getting banned (and the vendor recieving emails from angry customers).

they could get rid of region specific licensing all together, but it would mean next to no profits for future development (since they'd have to sell cheap across the board, thus making big budget titles more of a risk) or they'd have to exclude some markets all together to keep their main ones (US, UK, CA, FR, etc) profitable. Either way, it would be a major fail for gaming enthusiests
 
For those who don't know, those key selling sites purchase the games legally from third world countries (usually in Asia) where they are cheap, then resell the keys on their websites to customers from first world and developing countries. The thing is, due to Trade Agreements amongst various countries what they do is completely legal - and it's no secret that even though Valve (and some other companies) hate those key selling sites they cannot do anything about it because they are not breaking the law.

So I'm really wondering what legal ground Activision has on this issue. No doubt it's Activision forcing Valve's hand (as Valve games bought via key selling sites work fine). Activision might be a multi billion dollar company, but they have zero say when it comes to Trade Agreement Laws in other countries. If they sell a product in one country they have to abide by those laws.
 
Drexion said:
So I'm really wondering what legal ground Activision has on this issue. No doubt it's Activision forcing Valve's hand (as Valve games bought via key selling sites work fine). Activision might be a multi billion dollar company, but they have zero say when it comes to Trade Agreement Laws in other countries. If they sell a product in one country they have to abide by those laws.
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actually, valve has banned them in the past (and will probably continue to do so). A member here got his account banned a few months back for using a steam key that he bought from ebay. I believe that valve ended up giving him his account back, sans the game in question, after he explained what happened to customer support, but I certainly wouldn't risk it. That would be an expensive lesson to learn :(

As for what activision can legally do, I'm sure they have their butts covered. I'd be surprised if they didn't and like I said, I'd be really shocked if they didn't have anything in the sales contract stating that keys can only be used for the region they're intended. That would be one hell of an error on their end lol
 
I got mine for 13 dollar off from ebay with a chinese guy..

and he refunded me right after the game got revoke by valve..

I am not angry, and I am happy that they actually revoke it so I can get my refund...

this crap game doesn't even worth 13 dollar, more like 5 dollar for a boring campaign. :p
 
dr.stevil said:
As for what activision can legally do, I'm sure they have their butts covered. I'd be surprised if they didn't and like I said, I'd be really shocked if they didn't have anything in the sales contract stating that keys can only be used for the region they're intended. That would be one hell of an error on their end lol
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The games that are sold for cheap in particular regions specifically mention on the box that they are not to be sold outside that particular country/region. In addition to that, the license for the game that you purchase is for personal use only, and is not meant to be used for commercial gains or resold. So Activision is well within their rights to revoke the license if they believe those terms are not adhered to.
 
I'm not sure that any of us are lawyers and I suspect there is enough grey material here that it would take one (and probably a trial) to determine what is legal. Sure there might be some text in the eula and on the box; but there are also governing rules around fair trade and such. I'm not a lawyer and I do not know what the fine print of these various laws and how they interact. Do you ?
 
If they didn't protect the regionional license, I would purchase all games like this. So of course they are going to enforce the licenses.

They sell games for cheap in other countries to get extra income. They wouldn't publish the game if everyone could buy it for $5. They wouldn't get much extra income if they sold it for $60 in low income regions either. If the games weren't region locked, then they would just not publish in those regions so we couldn't cheat the system.
 
Stop apologizing for valve like they don't have a say in the matter. It's their damn service Activision is using, not vice versa. It's shady practice and they get away with it because they have money, and they are corporate entities.
 
Dreaz said:
It's shady practice and they get away with it because they have money, and they are corporate entities.
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It's shady practice to buy games cheaper than you know they're supposed to be where you live. They make these cheaper in other countries so people there can buy based on income, not so we can save a few bucks. It's also supporting companies making money for doing nothing more than reselling keys in violation of licensing terms. It's no better than buying technet keys off ebay.
 
darkpaw said:
It's shady practice to buy games cheaper than you know they're supposed to be where you live. They make these cheaper in other countries so people there can buy based on income, not so we can save a few bucks. It's also supporting companies making money for doing nothing more than reselling keys in violation of licensing terms. It's no better than buying technet keys off ebay.
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So tell me... what's the difference between buying from these sites and actually going to these countries and buying it?
"Based on income"? That's a good one. I saw newly released games in Poland costing 15/20 € in stores (as opposed to 50 €). So is Poland a 3rd world country that it deserves such cheap prices?

This is BS but they'll get away with it as long as they have people making up excuses for them. But I see they'd rather have people pirate the games instead :rolleyes:
 
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Lets see, do I pay for a game and get banned because some greedy S.O.B. conglamoration doesn't think they made enough money or do I pirate the game and play without dealing with their bullshit? Hrrm, wonder which option they're actually encouraging with moves like this :rolleyes:
 
BladeVenom said:
Of course aren't they also screwing servicemen and business travelers?
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Maybe business men but not servicemen. We get our games from the exchange and they are all regionally coded for the US. I have purchased a few games in ports. Honestly I should have waited for the exchange to get the game. In some countries you have no idea what you are installing with that disk.
 
mstersmith said:
Maybe business men but not servicemen. We get our games from the exchange and they are all regionally coded for the US. I have purchased a few games in ports. Honestly I should have waited for the exchange to get the game. In some countries you have no idea what you are installing with that disk.
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Going off topic, the overseas Exchange is far worse than the ones here stateside. The stateside ones have a terrible selection as it is. Tbh I wish I could be "the guy" who oversees the product selection of the Powerzone because I bet sales would go up 30% + after 2-3 months and stay there for the remainder of my term.
 
novadude said:
Lets see, do I pay for a game and get banned because some greedy S.O.B. conglamoration doesn't think they made enough money or do I pirate the game and play without dealing with their bullshit? Hrrm, wonder which option they're actually encouraging with moves like this :rolleyes:
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Bingo..What about the guy who paid his money for this game,gets it banned as is told buy ActiSteam that"you didnt pay enough now go buy it again".Im sure if they have the means that then they would feel entitled to get the game by other means since hes already paid for it..Dopey move by greedy bastards!
 
mstersmith said:
Maybe business men but not servicemen. We get our games from the exchange and they are all regionally coded for the US. I have purchased a few games in ports. Honestly I should have waited for the exchange to get the game. In some countries you have no idea what you are installing with that disk.
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Have you tried buying stuff from steam though? It'll lock your prices to the countries IP you're coming from. And the BX/PX has a horrible selection and get very few copies in, it's easier to order from Best Buy or Newegg.
 
-PK- said:
And if you don't want these oversea's sales to happen as a game company, you should region lock your games and force region-only languages. This should be a trivial process with things like Steam by now. And although I disagree with region locking, banning legitimate cdkeys is much worse for the PC gaming industry.
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So i live in Costa Rica, they should release a Spanish only version, and how are the people who are English in this country supposed to play the game? Sure i know some Spanish but not enough to enjoy a video game %100, and what about other countries with mixed languages that could fall over into other regions, english, french, spanish?
 
By regional languages I meant all languages in the region. I don't agree with region-locking, but it's a lot better than the industry commiting fraud against it's consumers just because they decided that they didn't make enough money after they finished selling their product.
 
-PK- said:
By regional languages I meant all languages in the region. I don't agree with region-locking, but it's a lot better than the industry commiting fraud against it's consumers just because they decided that they didn't make enough money after they finished selling their product.
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They'd have to region-lock the keys, though. Is that doable? I honestly have no idea.
 
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