vga cooling conundrum

I

INFINITE

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
189
I have two separate issues.

I have two XFX 6950 cards in crossfire. Shaders are not unlocked / stock bios. From day one of installing these cards GPU1 always showed much higher temps by 10 to 20C from idle all the way to 100% load. If I swap the cards location GPU1 still shows the higher temps. Can this really be a location issue causing 20C difference???

I recently installed Arctic Accelero Twin Turbo II's on both cards. With the appropriate (medium) sized spacers and the stock paste that's pre applied I received the following results within furmark...

note after the coolers were installed I up'd the clock and memory of both cards using MSI Afterburner

idle GPU1 50C 100% 80C
idle GPU2 35C 100% 71C

Not being very satisfied with these results and after some reading of various reviews I decided to remove the spacers (yet taking care not to over tighten the card) and thoroughly cleaned the surfaces (arctic cleaner/prep) and re apply'd paste this time using actic silver 5.

The loaded tests worsened on GPU1 and got much better for GPU2

idle GPU1 45C 100% load 90C
idle GPU2 29C 100% load 57C

ALSO with the Arctic coolers installed any program I use displays the fan tach fluctuating from 2000 to 800,000 rpm. This only goes away if you manually set fan rpm (say with MSI Afterburner) above 60% or so only then will the readings stabilize. (this happens with both coolers / fans)

So my questions are

1) can the gpu location make a 20C difference? or is there something else going on here
2) what is responsible for displaying GPU fan tach (cooler, card, mobo)?
3) how do my test results for these coolers stack up? from all the reviews I read GPU1 really concerns me

My rig
MSI P67A GD65 B3
i7 2600k OC @ 4.2
16GB Gskill ripsaw DDR3 1600 memory
OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS edition
Seasonic X650 PS
(x2) XFX HD-695X-CNFC Radeon HD 6950 2GB
Housed in a Lian Li all aluminum full tower case

Ambient room temp of the rig about 68F or 20C

Furmark default 1080p burn in was used. Both cards OC'd to 840 core 1350 memory with 20% powerboost (using MSI Afterburner) and fans manually set to 100%
 
Last edited:
A few thoughts...where did you use AS5? It is capacitive, and I wouldn't use it anywhere on a GPU unless that GPU had an IHS and then only on the IHS...which unless I'm mistaken, there isn't a 6900 AMD card made by anyone with an IHS.

Temp differences could be due to a bad mount, and/or in combination with GPU1 being strangled for fresh air. If you physically swap the GPU locations and the temps don't change noticeably it is air circulation as GPU1 can't pull in that much fresh air.
 
Your MB looks to have good spacing.
Do you have any fans blowing fresh air on your GPUs?

Have you tried running each card individually to see what happens by itself alone, rather than in a pair?

If you place card #2 in the top (master) position and card #1 in the bottom (slave) position and run a program, what are the temps?

The master card always has a tendency to run warmer, but maybe not that extreme.

If they still behave the same after the above....ie card #1 way hot, I'd try remounting and reapplying TIM......I agree with the other post....AS5 is not a good choice for GPUs, you need a non-conductive paste.....Noctura NT-H1 or ArcticCooling MX4 are good choices.
 
I second MX3 or MX4 works excellent and not have to worry, find lasts longer and when it "dries" it tends to leave a nice film where AS5 will flake away(this can be quite dangerous)

I know for my 7870s the 2nd card gains about 10c compared to the other the funny thing is its not the card that is more constrained it is the "slave" that by far has more airflow, when it gets hotter so does the "master"

Ramp up the fan speeds on the hotter card, or even try replacing the stock cooler especially if it was a blower style, they might be noisier BUT they control air movement so much better. Did you leave the baseplate from stock heatsink on?

another thing http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/405/radeon-hd-6950.html that IS an IHS that is not a bare die, so against your knowledge I will throw out a, I have NEVER seen a modern GPU with a bare die NO IHS, I personally have used 4870-6870-7870 have worked with Nvidia 8500GT, 8600GT, GTX260, GTX460SE
 
If I swap cards GPU1 still shows hot. So I'll try running one card solo and see if GPU1 cools off.

After re-reading AS5's product description I love how they say "Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity." and then follow it up with fine print "...very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths." OOPS

Regardless mx3 and mx4 are good choices?

These temps are with both coolers / fans set manually set to 100% btw
 
MX3 and MX4 are very good also, I used to use AS5 I find MX4 better overall. Conductive and Capacitive are 2 very different things really, AS5 is capacitive, MX3 I think was a tad thicker or thinner but a hair better then MX4, MX4 is more of an all around and very much geared towards GPU usage where MX3 was designed for CPU not that it makes that much a difference anyways with modern IHS usage, the difference might be with covered or bare heatpipes but I do not imagine again it would make much a difference though you would want the slightly thicker stuff for bare heatpipe type and thinner for covered(better coverage this way)
capacitive =
The ratio of charge to potential on an electrically charged, isolated conductor, or the ratio of the electric charge transferred from one to the other of a pair of conductors to the resulting potential difference between them.

conductive =
The ability or power to conduct or transmit heat, electricity, or sound.

Apprently when it is cool it is ever so slightly capacitive but as it gets hot it becomes very conductive, either way very bad for electronics and possibly even dangerous to use in that even though there should be no energy present on the IHS if there is say a slight static charge when reinstalling or even not grounded properly for whatever reason it can make this problem amplify, not usually as much issue with cpu as the IHS and pins are well separated with gpu however many times the IHS has a fair amount of other pads around it http://techreport.com/review/22573/amd-radeon-hd-7870-ghz-edition I do not 100% know what these do, but I can tell you from experience by not letting alcohol dry out 100% that they can cause issues, would hate to see what something like AS5 slopped where it shouldn't be would do.

Anyways so yeh does not conduct, but can capacitate so 2 different charges present in 2 different pins can short things out, simple as that, lest this is the way I understand it.
 
The accelero coolers come with MX4 pre-applied, if I'm not mistaken. I pretty sure mine did.
 
The top card in crossfire is always hotter by at least 10 degrees. That is normal. I think there is a setting in radeon pro (3rd party app) that if unchecked lowers temps by quite a bit. It also causes memory bandwith on the second on the second card to show correctly in GPU-z. That was my experience before selling my second crossfire card.
 
I use afterburner to set my clocks and fan speeds, the drivers used also make a difference, as does powertune.

For me the primary card was cooler then secondary, secondary was the one that has by far more airflow, even redid the paste and ended up same thing.

I personally would redo past, make sure is a very thin layer(nothing fancy just a little dot dead center bolt heatsink take apart see how it set, redo again leave it) also if cooler is "dirty" of course this will affect airflow as will bad case wiring, the cleaner the layout the better the airflow, and of course more defined airflow direction(the case fans not the total % of air, but rather the quality of in and out flow) matters big time.

but yeh, 1 card is usually around 10c hotter, for me that was 1 card at 72% fan other at 65% they both kept around the same temps in mining, when it comes to gaming type loads 1 card will always be hotter then other as they load differently not exactly 100% and not a 50-50.
 
dragonstongue said:
I use afterburner to set my clocks and fan speeds, the drivers used also make a difference, as does powertune.

For me the primary card was cooler then secondary, secondary was the one that has by far more airflow, even redid the paste and ended up same thing.

I personally would redo past, make sure is a very thin layer(nothing fancy just a little dot dead center bolt heatsink take apart see how it set, redo again leave it) also if cooler is "dirty" of course this will affect airflow as will bad case wiring, the cleaner the layout the better the airflow, and of course more defined airflow direction(the case fans not the total % of air, but rather the quality of in and out flow) matters big time.

but yeh, 1 card is usually around 10c hotter, for me that was 1 card at 72% fan other at 65% they both kept around the same temps in mining, when it comes to gaming type loads 1 card will always be hotter then other as they load differently not exactly 100% and not a 50-50.
Click to expand...

Yup. Simply having that 2nd card in there is enough to thermally foul what would otherwise be cool air for the 1st card.

OP: For real life example...in this thread I went and IR scoped my system to see exactly what is putting out heat and how much. My card is ofc under a waterblock but the readings even for a good full-coverage waterblock are pretty eye opening...when even the edge of the GPU PCB itself is glowing hot in the IR.

index.php


index.php
 
Skripka that is amazing thanks for taking the time posting that thread.

I believe I know what the issue(s) primarily are. 1) I'm going back to MX paste because whatever was on the cooler from the manuf. showed better results than what I'm using now. 2) I found out I have some dead (intake) case fans in the front as well as one in the rear.

So I think this is a good time to refresh the fans in the case. I'll do a quick search here - I'm sure there are a lot of fan roundup / comparisons unless someone wants to recommend 80mm fans here. Also since the side panel of my case has a huge plexi window I think I'll install a 200mm intake right over the graphics cards.

I'd like to thank everyone for their input its sincerely appreciated. Once I get these fans done I'll update this thread with the results.
 
Yup. Fixing those fans will help alot.
Installing a side fan is a great idea. Just make sure you have good exhaust.
 
good fans are the Cougar HDB ones, they are not that expensive and move lots of air at good pressure, their noise is noticeable but I find it a very easy to deal with sound. I personally would think on moving to 120mm fans if you can, you can get adapters to do this, or mod the case to allow it, 200mm side is a lot of air, but there are many 140 and 180mm fans that will provide more then ample enough airflow at a higher pressure then any 200mm fan will provide, this can help say if you want a couple of breather holes and the extra air gets forced out it will help in the noise and cost department this way. Even just a single 120-140 centered between the gpu makes a noticeable difference(for me was a good 7c idle 15c load difference and that is with 7870s.

Again its not about the total % of air being thrown around its the quality of the air(that it is being directed properly, not being rolled around or caught on things, this also goes with the gpu fans, having the fans spinning higher speed can cause the air to cool gpu more effectively BUT can also disrupt the airflow so it will get warmer over time, it is a fine balance)

best thing you can do if possible, dual intake 1 side, then the back exhaust/psu exhaust or if psu sits bottom, extra fan up top to aid in the exhaust. It truly is not all that beneficial to have a lot of fans or uber amounts of cfm, my CM590 as example I had dual intake, dual side dual top, 1 rear all 120s and it was by far warmer then my raven 3 is with fans on low speed but much more directed air flow.

Anyhow, many recommend Noctua for the quiet but good performance side, there is also Antec, Artic Cooling F8, this http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?scase=c_80&pid=136&area=en or this http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=34631&vpn=ZM-F1 PLUS&manufacture=ZALMAN TECH honestly many tests I have seen of many 80mm fans show that they simply do not live up anywhere close to the rated numbers(usually 1/2 at best for their CFM as they have no pressure for the ones that do they tend to be ~5db louder in open air let alone being mesh/filters) unless you get ones that are very thick heavy slant on blades then they push the rated air without issue BUT are also very noisy in the process.
 
I have a Lian-Li PC75 case - from what I read there's no room for the 80 to 120mm adapters without moving or modding things. I do know they make 120mm bracket that takes up 3 - 5.25" bays.

This case by default is setup for 2 intakes front side down load and 4 exhausts on the rear (all 80mm). I'm liking that Noctua NF-R8 - maybe replace all my 80's with those add a large side intake to blow on the VGA cards and then put two or three 120's in the top. I'm quite handy but I also see FrozenCPU sells Lian-Li tops already laser cut.

My thought process on the 200mm side fan was that the larger fan would be able to push more air at fewer RPM thus making it more quiet and if I wanted to crank it up I could since I have a 4 port fan controller. However after looking at NCIX I'm seeing Noctua's 140's do a much better job cfm per dB.


EDIT: gesh after looking at the price of some of these fans and modding my top I'm almost thinking a new case would be a better idea. The Cooler Master HAF932 is on sale right now at Newegg like 109 after promo and rebate.
 
Last edited:
If you are thinking of a new case, and pretty cheap with awesome airflow......I recommend this one.....http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139007

Right now it's 114 dollars, has a built in fan controller, side mesh for up to 4 120mm fans.

The Lian-Li's are great cases, but the older models with the 80mm fans are just no good for high air flow, plus they are noisy.

I have a 600T, easy to use, very roomy, comes with tons of fans, and has accessories you can order direct from Corsair.:D
 
magoo that case is AWESOME thanks for the link

I hate to have gotten this thread so side tracked but I think overall its about temperature and like you said although the Lian-Li's are nice it is old I've had this thing a loooong time. It doesn't make sense pouring 100+ into fans / panels when I could get a one stop solution with a new case.
 
INFINITE said:
magoo that case is AWESOME thanks for the link

I hate to have gotten this thread so side tracked but I think overall its about temperature and like you said although the Lian-Li's are nice it is old I've had this thing a loooong time. It doesn't make sense pouring 100+ into fans / panels when I could get a one stop solution with a new case.
Click to expand...

No problem.
I have one and it is VERY versatile.
Look around, there are versions that offer the mesh side panel and also a windowed side panel, together in the same box, for a bit more.
That said, if you are looking at cooling as a criteria, the mesh side panel is a clear winner.

If you do buy that case, give me a holler.....I have a bunch of stuff from that case left over that I'll never use and it would be yours for just the shipping costs.:D

Also, just take a look at what Corsair has to offer in their case selection. They have a bunch of great cases in all price ranges. NZXT is also very popular for good air flow and innovative design.:cool:
 
Magoo I forgot to ask earlier - just out of curiosity, on the mesh panel, is it possible to mount a single 240mm fan vs four 120's? I'm assuming the mount would line up?

Also with the integrated fan controller does that have multiple fan leads or a single that I would need splitters to control 4 fans as one? (nevermind I found a video on Corsair's website showing it has 4 leads) So that sparks another question however...the fan controller accepts power via a molex connector...is it accepting / outputting 12v or 5v?

The ONLY thing I find unappealing about that case is the USB 3.0 pass thru vs having the 25pin connector.
 
Last edited:
INFINITE said:
Magoo I forgot to ask earlier - just out of curiosity, on the mesh panel, is it possible to mount a single 240mm fan vs four 120's? I'm assuming the mount would line up?

Also with the integrated fan controller does that have multiple fan leads or a single that I would need splitters to control 4 fans as one? (nevermind I found a video on Corsair's website showing it has 4 leads) So that sparks another question however...the fan controller accepts power via a molex connector...is it accepting / outputting 12v or 5v?

The ONLY thing I find unappealing about that case is the USB 3.0 pass thru vs having the 25pin connector.
Click to expand...

The fan controller has 4 leads.
I,m thinking it's 12V.
You can mount about anything on the side you like. If the holes don't line up, just drill some, the mesh is easy to modify.
The pass through designs never bothered me, I just cut a slot in the back panel so I can route the cable to my liking.:D
 
Here's how I did the 200mm side fan. U have to have a slight space between the mesh and the fan because the 4 holes in the center of the mesh where the 4 120mm fans would hook up stick out slightly. Here's how u do it. This was when I was running tri sli 470s.
http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=104805
Personally I'd get a case that comes with a big side fan. Haf or something. A lot easier to mod in a filter and no screwing around. I only did it cuz I already had it. Then I sold it and grabbed a used haf932 for less than I sold the 600t for and temps were even better. Even a haf922 is cheap and great airflow if you don't want a giant case. Will def beat a 600t even with side fan (front and top fan are more powerful)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197
 
Last edited:
HOODedDutchman said:
Here's how I did the 200mm side fan. U have to have a slight space between the mesh and the fan because the 4 holes in the center of the mesh where the 4 120mm fans would hook up stick out slightly. Here's how u do it. This was when I was running tri sli 470s.
http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=104805
Personally I'd get a case that comes with a big side fan. Haf or something. A lot easier to mod in a filter and no screwing around. I only did it cuz I already had it. Then I sold it and grabbed a used haf932 for less than I sold the 600t for and temps were even better. Even a haf922 is cheap and great airflow if you don't want a giant case. Will def beat a 600t even with side fan (front and top fan are more powerful)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197
Click to expand...

As I said before.....the mesh is simple to drill out with either a hand drill or a dremmel.
No need to get cute with zip ties when you can place your holes with precision and use real stainless nuts and bolts. You can use stainless button washers if you need some space.

The benefit of the 600T is you can place several small 120mm fans, or one large one.....you arent stuck conforming to one or the other.:D
 
magoo said:
As I said before.....the mesh is simple to drill out with either a hand drill or a dremmel.
No need to get cute with zip ties when you can place your holes with precision and use real stainless nuts and bolts. You can use stainless button washers if you need some space.

The benefit of the 600T is you can place several small 120mm fans, or one large one.....you arent stuck conforming to one or the other.:D
Click to expand...

Haf 932 does same thing. Not sure about the 922. I use a nzxt switch 810 with custom side window i cut out 2x120mm fan holes right over the gpu and used silverstone fan filters. Looks great and cools great.

Edit: 922 supports 230mm side fan or 2x120mm. Plus cm fans are 110cfm at lower noise and rpm than corsair fans. The stock fan on the 600t sucks.
 
Last edited:
Ok wanted to give an update. MX4 came in the other day and I repasted both vga cards / coolers. Just for the record the coverage and spread looked great when I took the old stuff off.

I reapplied paste this time using MX4. Let the rig idle for about an hr for everything to get cozy. Here are my new furmark results (only thing changing was paste remember)

idle GPU1 48C 100% 78C
idle GPU2 36C 100% 61C

So these are certainly steps in the right direction. I've decided on a new case as well. I'm going to go with the Corsair Carbide 500R. I really liked the latches vs. thumb screws on the Graphite series but the Carbide has 1 - 200mm fan and 3 - 120mm with room for 10 total fans. Once I switch over I'll post those results as well.

I'd like to thank everyone for the help once again. Sometimes you just get frantic and can't think straight and having a dozen different sets of eyes on the problem really helps :)
 
INFINITE said:
Ok wanted to give an update. MX4 came in the other day and I repasted both vga cards / coolers. Just for the record the coverage and spread looked great when I took the old stuff off.

I reapplied paste this time using MX4. Let the rig idle for about an hr for everything to get cozy. Here are my new furmark results (only thing changing was paste remember)

idle GPU1 48C 100% 78C
idle GPU2 36C 100% 61C

So these are certainly steps in the right direction. I've decided on a new case as well. I'm going to go with the Corsair Carbide 500R. I really liked the latches vs. thumb screws on the Graphite series but the Carbide has 1 - 200mm fan and 3 - 120mm with room for 10 total fans. Once I switch over I'll post those results as well.

I'd like to thank everyone for the help once again. Sometimes you just get frantic and can't think straight and having a dozen different sets of eyes on the problem really helps :)
Click to expand...

Looks good.
Nice case choice, too.
I bought my 600T last winter when newegg had a sale for about a week there that was just too good to pass up.
I think the case was on sale for aroung 100 dollars and had a rebate to boot.

You'll really like that Corsair case.:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top