LithiumRage158
Limp Gawd
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This should be done again after Left 4 Dead 2 comes out 
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Video Game Minority Report
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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The reason that whitewashing doesn't really exist in games is because they rely so heavily on stereotyping to begin with. It's still worth mentioning because it's visible in other forms of media, especially film and television.
Before accusing me of "preaching", perhaps consider that the majority of all others here that have responded have done their own preaching, merely contrary to mine. At the very least, I back up my claims; there are literally thousands of academic, peer-reviewed articles in hundreds of acclaimed and reputable journals that all detail the same things I do. Most of my points are not beyond the scope of a 100-level sociology class. The next time you wish to engage me in dialogue, do so at a level that is beyond pointless personal insults, and free from selective reading and nitpicking.
When you put that many ism's and ing's in a statement, I suspect that, you too, are a victim of the psycho-babble professions.
Is there racism out there?
Sure, but it's not the universally-held view that it was back in the day.
The inclination towards prejudice of all types is present in everyone.
If you are in any way different than me, my inclination is to view you as inferior to me.
That's a part of human nature.
Whenever people point out the anecdotal instances of racism and ignore the overwhelming progress that has been made in the vast majority of our society, however, I'm usually suspicious of the motive.
The Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's of the world have taken a valid issue and so over-played the racism card, that they have marginalized the real incidents of racism in our culture.
They may not have started out that way, but power, money and influence gained are difficult to give up, even when the social landscape changes.
Too many Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse incidents cause people to roll their eyes and look the other way when a real problem crops up.
That is a crime, in my eyes.
Enduring_Warrior
[H]ard|Gawd
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Hilarious.
Read again.
Haven't seen Bruno
My thoughts too
And they all shall be called Gaybe
Is a piece of crap wrapped around humorist but politically correct genius.
"I think that is Racist"-Bruno.
That's correct sir. Its just not worth it. That's why I stick to personal relationships.
Flexion
[H]ard|Gawd
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This article by Science Daily is a joke. A videogame is just that... It's a game. It's fictional. Yes, there are portrayals, yes there are inaccuracies. Does it mean that the develops are Klan members or Nazis? Hell no... Are games fun to play? The numbers speak for themselves. Do the minority groups feel outraged by misrepresentation? Well, I haven't heard of any riots or demonstrations rooting from a video game recently, some barking here and there, but nothing too crazy.
The fact of the matter is that games are written by people, who for the most part have some sort of bias. Bias can be good or bad. But people make mistakes, no matter what.
While I sometimes feel that our country is still riddled with racism, I see that it is just as important for a minority group to not fall under typical stereotypes. Meaning that it is also the responsibility of a group of people to transcend beyond their stereotypes. That's the only way to stop being persecuted. I preach that to my own minority class every day...
It's only the lazy idiots that like to bitch about being victimized that complain. Because after all it's easier to bark like a dog than do something, or better one's self isn't it?
The fact of the matter is that games are written by people, who for the most part have some sort of bias. Bias can be good or bad. But people make mistakes, no matter what.
While I sometimes feel that our country is still riddled with racism, I see that it is just as important for a minority group to not fall under typical stereotypes. Meaning that it is also the responsibility of a group of people to transcend beyond their stereotypes. That's the only way to stop being persecuted. I preach that to my own minority class every day...
It's only the lazy idiots that like to bitch about being victimized that complain. Because after all it's easier to bark like a dog than do something, or better one's self isn't it?
A recent study has concluded that video games are racist. A professor at USC Annenberg School for Communication supposedly studied the top 150 games in a year and found a lack of minorities in the games. No word on whether aliens, mushrooms, plumbers, cyborgs and monsters are being unfairly depicted.
Article clearly states that it only looked at characters that were clearly human.
IMO, any game that allowed customization of a character that allowed you to make that character look like a black, latino, asian, Indian et. al, should count towards those respective races. Randomly generating the character is a flawed approach.
Enduring_Warrior
[H]ard|Gawd
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Exactly my point of view. Look at the Asians. They kick ass!! When do they complain? Never.
I think the guys that made the study are just justifying their work by attacking the group that seems more vulnerable: "the new guy on the block"
I think is time for the Game Industry to find some cutthroat lawyers and start making some sues for defamation. They don't have to take shit from anybody anymore.
Appeal to nature? Really? It might feel natural for me to bludgeon you to death when you make me angry, but that hardly makes it a good thing to do.
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, because I mention at least once or twice that a lot of progress has been made, and I cite companies such as EA for Mirror's Edge and Ubisoft for Beyond Good & Evil. Those still remain exceptions rather than rules, however.
This is probably true. There are always, always people who will take advantage of social movements and the like for their own profits. However, those cases hardly negate the issues that still plague us.
Blacks and other minorities in North America have historically faced an incredible amount of marginalisation that still exists at an institutional level, such as in the political and prison systems. One can't underestimate the value that class plays, either. Statistically, minorities are of a lower socioeconomic standing, and rarely do they have adequate social services, educational opportunity, etc. because of systemic barriers that are in place (for example, schools giving more points on entrance applications to those who had parents attend those schools, who historically would be much more likely to be white). People are quick to cite affirmative action and other policies meant to improve the standards of living for minorities as "reverse racisms", but they usually fail to take into account the huge number of benefits that whites receive simply by virtue of their being white within our contemporary society. Additionally, often the measures we employ wind up being ineffective. For example, 80% of businesses routinely violate affirmative action policies, and those assigned to regulate them only have enough manpower or funding to check up on businesses at an extremely low rate (roughly once every 100 years or so per business).
In any case, we're straying from the point. The debate isn't that racism exists in contemporary Western society, because it's extremely obvious that it does. It's also obvious to most people that it can be simplified down to statistics, nor rectified by social policies. What this article addresses is the mass entertainment industry's portrayals of minority characters. I'm not sure how many people actually read the original article (only one person seems to have cited it so far), but while there are some holes in the methodology and the conclusions, it still makes some very important points, even if they have been made elsewhere before.
The question at the heart of this, of course, is, are videogames racist? The answer, I think, is for the most part no, but only if you treat racism as overt, obvious acts of discrimination. What we need to do is stop thinking of racism as a series of actions that take place on an individual level, and rather a set of beliefs and preconceptions that shape the ways in which we interpret the world. In this regard, I think videogames, as well as the rest of the entertainment industry, have a long way to go.
I skimmed over a lot of posts, so forgive me for missing things or restating the obvious. But as far as I can tell, game developers' propensity towards using caucasian characters and a lack of minorities has little to do with racism or bias, and more to due with target audience. Gaming is a stereotypically geeky thing to do. While it has certainly caught on into mainstream culture, it's still "that thing" that only some of us due, really those of us who have already been playing games all our lives already. And geeks are typically, well, WHITE. I believe the simple assumption amongst game developers is that a lot of white kids are going to be playing their games, so the hero and main characters should feel familiar, and allow them to relate on a personal level.
For instance, when I started playing Fallout3, I actually created my character as a black man, even though I myself am white. I just did it because I actually wanted a unique gaming experience. I figured since I am being offered the chance to change my race for the first time ever, I'm going to take this opportunity since I am normally always forced to play a white character. Well you know what? It felt weird to be honest. As my character is growing up, all my friends were black. My dad was black, etc etc. I actually stopped the game after the first few hours of play and just restarted with a new character and made him white, because I wanted to be absorbed into the experience afterall.
Now I would certainly appreciate having a culturally diverse world to play in. I dont want my interactions with other NPB's to just be with white citizens. And I can equally understand how minorities would like to have more familiar characters of their own to represent. But if games are targeted towards geeks, and geeks are mostly caucasian males, then I dont see a problem here, nor do I see it ever changing.
For instance, when I started playing Fallout3, I actually created my character as a black man, even though I myself am white. I just did it because I actually wanted a unique gaming experience. I figured since I am being offered the chance to change my race for the first time ever, I'm going to take this opportunity since I am normally always forced to play a white character. Well you know what? It felt weird to be honest. As my character is growing up, all my friends were black. My dad was black, etc etc. I actually stopped the game after the first few hours of play and just restarted with a new character and made him white, because I wanted to be absorbed into the experience afterall.
Now I would certainly appreciate having a culturally diverse world to play in. I dont want my interactions with other NPB's to just be with white citizens. And I can equally understand how minorities would like to have more familiar characters of their own to represent. But if games are targeted towards geeks, and geeks are mostly caucasian males, then I dont see a problem here, nor do I see it ever changing.
That's because we're all trained to stick 'American' after 'African' all the time. Brain washing I tell you! WASHING!!
BTW, didn't they have enough bla.. err 'African Americans' in GTA to compensate for all other games?
randomdean100
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Flexion
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BTW, didn't they have enough bla.. err 'African Americans' in GTA to compensate for all other games?
OMG EPIC LOLZ!!!
Umm it's because most of these games are originally done by the Japanese and, for the most part, have no concept of American social values and only know of the superficial american stereotypes?
Don't get me wrong, it's not like the Japanese have a concept of what racism is. It's just that they don't see or understand it in our culture.
Spectrum17
Gawd
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I'm thinking of the last three computer games I've played, and come to the conclusion that you have to take into account the historical background of the game as well as just the characters in it before you declare it as racist.
For example, in King's bounty the legend. The simple fact is that there weren't a lot of black people in Medieval England, so any fantasy games built around this archetype are not going to include black people. On the other hand, NWN2 included a black man as a boss (head of the thieves guild that you did quests for on the evil path), and for most races, you could specify dark skin if you so desired.
Another example is Company of Heroes. During WWII, the military was not integrated, and blacks were mainly relegated to support roles ala the Red Ball Express. It was racist, but if you are going to play a game set during WWII, you have to understand that that was the way it was.
An alternate near-history game like World in Conflict can do whatever it wants. As a matter of fact, it was set in 1989, and correctly depicted an integrated modern American military. One of the commanders and a pivotal character in the story was in fact a black man. Even the seargent as boot camp (the tutorial) was black, so I don't see the problem.
As further example, most RPGs, including MMOs, allow you to create female characters and encounter females as NPCs. This in itself is not realistic, but it does counter charges of sexism in these types of games.
For example, in King's bounty the legend. The simple fact is that there weren't a lot of black people in Medieval England, so any fantasy games built around this archetype are not going to include black people. On the other hand, NWN2 included a black man as a boss (head of the thieves guild that you did quests for on the evil path), and for most races, you could specify dark skin if you so desired.
Another example is Company of Heroes. During WWII, the military was not integrated, and blacks were mainly relegated to support roles ala the Red Ball Express. It was racist, but if you are going to play a game set during WWII, you have to understand that that was the way it was.
An alternate near-history game like World in Conflict can do whatever it wants. As a matter of fact, it was set in 1989, and correctly depicted an integrated modern American military. One of the commanders and a pivotal character in the story was in fact a black man. Even the seargent as boot camp (the tutorial) was black, so I don't see the problem.
As further example, most RPGs, including MMOs, allow you to create female characters and encounter females as NPCs. This in itself is not realistic, but it does counter charges of sexism in these types of games.
You used this article to start whinning about how it's unfair that you have to watch a white person on a TV show. Seriously? That's what it has come to these days? You have to whine that someone's race isn't represented enough on a TV show? Seriously, go take a look at what the people before you overcame. To say that the number of white people on TV or video games means you can't have class mobility is insulting to what they did for you.
TV and video games aren't real life. They doesn't even come close to representing average joe. The poor person is clearly under represented on Sitcoms today. The magic user is obviously way over represented as wiccans represent a very small part of the population but have a huge number of people in video games. If you look at the number of playable characters in games, there are WAY more playable atheletes in video games than any other profession. Clearly we are repressing engineers! Won't anyone think of the engineers?!?!
Personal insults? Exactly where did I insult you?
Selective reading? I took one of your 4 major points. Yeah, I was really selective
Nitpicking? That would be if I pointed out the sentance fragment in the first post.
I thought cj was black.
I think you're right. You can see how much I pay attention to the color of skin of a character.
supercross
Limp Gawd
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If America was made up entirely of these idiots (aka community organizers, activists, etc...) not one thing would ever get done in this country. We'd be less than a third world country b/c these people do not and probably will never hold real jobs.
If they want minority characters, simply adjust the brightness/contrast on your monitor to get the desired 'shade' of skin tone.
If they want minority characters, simply adjust the brightness/contrast on your monitor to get the desired 'shade' of skin tone.
ordovician
2[H]4U
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What a bunch of horseshit. Two of my favorite games ever, Mass Effect and Half-Life 2 have multiple human races (and several nonhuman races) getting along just dandy.
Selective reading? I took one of your 4 major points. Yeah, I was really selective
I'm just going to assume that you agreed with 75% of what he said and move on. Alternating question marks and exclamation points make me racist.
I look to HL2 for good supporting minority characters. A black physicist with a prosthetic leg and a half-asian daughter. Giddy-up!
Games generally don't have racial slurs or attacks; rather they use racial stereotyping for 'fun'; such as GTA: San Andreas. This isn't much different from other media either - such as a sitcom with black people "acting black".
If there was a big problem about a game being racist, then there will be a large public outcry and the market will sort itself out. I don't see what the problem is; if there even is one. Yes, games will be developed and marketed with a racial bias, but that's only natural. The same goes for gender bias as well.
If there was a big problem about a game being racist, then there will be a large public outcry and the market will sort itself out. I don't see what the problem is; if there even is one. Yes, games will be developed and marketed with a racial bias, but that's only natural. The same goes for gender bias as well.
JayteeBates
[H]ard|Poof
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I have a serious problem with this...if it is "whitewashing" and "bad" to expect someone to turn away from a life of crime and get an education to better themselves and society then I am a Grade A #1 A-hole.
So like, I herd yo was making a video game, and I was like, yo need to have more minorities in it so yo can not be racist yo!
Wait, but as soon as there are minorities being shot, then the game will be encouraging murder of minorities...
Oh noes!
Wait, but as soon as there are minorities being shot, then the game will be encouraging murder of minorities...
Oh noes!
Dion
2[H]4U
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I laughed not gonna lie. Anyways on topic. People are racist.. not games.
I selected the part I did because I wanted to draw attention to it specifically, as it was clear he was using this article to make a soap box speech and he was not interested in an intelligent discussion.
I believe I made it quite clear in my second post I think that his whole post and attitude of "I'm not being represented properly by a video game and/or TV show" is a load of crap. I probably should have avoided being drug into his deliusions. Frankly, I find it offensive that he can sit there and spout how bad and how horrible it is that someone isn't properly represented in a tv show or a video game. Seriously, if that's all that it takes to "keep someone down", they are never going to amount to anything to begin with.
Project_Nightmare
Limp Gawd
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Yet the minorities are usually the major characters. Being a minority myself, I don't mind killing my own race with a rocket launcher as long as its virtual and kick-@ss.
This study is racist. It doesn't matter what colour people are, therefore there is no racism regardless of the colour of people in games, or any other medium. To say there should be more or less of "X" race is in itself racist as it's pointing out how different "X" is to the other races. If you look and you have to draw a line between the white people and the non-white people, congrats, you've just been racist.
I have to agree with the ridiculousness of this concept. It just creates a web of circular logic. It'd be racist to stereotype a black man/woman as a "street thug", however it's also racist to project traits of success onto these characters as well - since we've all "decided" that traits of a successful person are synonymous with being white.
I went to University for a degree, and ultimately a career. I'd assume my minority counterparts had similar reasoning behind their decision.
A hundred and fifty games came out this year? Jesus Christ, with that many shitty and probably medium to low budget games in the statistics, its no wonder there were so little diversity in characters.
Unsympathetic racist spotted.
Perceiving someone else as inferior is not human nature. Perceiving other people as inferior is merely a social construct, one born of elitism and class systems and incubated and perpetuated over history.
The very fact that that the opposite exists (thinking of a different person as superior in their differences) proves you are wrong.
I agree. I'd go even further as to say if you even feel the need to differentiate between human characters and non-human characters it is just as bad, if not worse!
Unsympathetic racist spotted.
Perceiving someone else as inferior is not human nature. Perceiving other people as inferior is merely a social construct, one born of elitism and class systems and incubated and perpetuated over history.
The very fact that that the opposite exists (thinking of a different person as superior in their differences) proves you are wrong.
I agree. I'd go even further as to say if you even feel the need to differentiate between human characters and non-human characters it is just as bad, if not worse!
Then, where does the sentiment that being smart, or talking "proper" or being successful in school is acting white, with some minorities choosing not to do those things for the sake of not acting white? You'd be a fool to say that synonym is purely make believe.
(Note: I'm not saying that being successful is a white thing. I think it is disgusting that there are cultural outlooks and identities that would cause a kid/teen in school to choose to forgo any chance at education, especially for such a silly reason)
radioactivez0r
Gawd
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I'd be curious to know what percentage of game developers are white, and therefore program the type of character they are familiar with from daily life, instead of trying to diversify and looking silly.
Nothing like forming an identity over virtual experiences.
According to the last Census report, the country is ~81% white, so point 1 is over exagerrated. But we'll roll with it, should developers make every 5th game with a minority protagonist? Should we break it down even further by ethnicity and gender?
Points 2 and 4 are largely contradictory.
Nothing like forming an identity over virtual experiences.
I take it you know very little about psychology, especially in children and teens.
I take it you think its a good idea that children use GTA to form their identity?