Virginia Tech Shootings

Draax said:
Actually cho did qualify. A judge, in 2005, ruled that Cho was a danger to himself and others.
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So we're back to the fact it's his fault for the crime, good. Glad we cleared that up. The underlying issue is that actions weren't taken to protect others from him. Honestly I'm not that surprised, even though we seem to live in a society that's hell bent on the idea of protecting everyone from everyone else. This is really no different than serial killers... Mentally they have issues, we all know that something will go wrong "someday maybe" but we do nothing but turn a blind eye. And truthfully how can we do otherwise?
 
Draax said:
Actually cho did qualify. A judge, in 2005, ruled that Cho was a danger to himself and others.
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Exactly! He lied on his application form to purchase the firearms and was given them anyway.

So, someone else should be punished and the system of checking these types of things are in need of an upgrade. It is 2007, how hard is it really for people to check mental health records before selling some asshole a pistol?

I don't know.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Are you guys going to try and fight logical assertions with semantics, seriously lame.
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Semantics is the study of word meanings. And since the world relies on language, semantics is one of the most important things we deal with.

Also, it's only your opinion that what you say is logical.

Teknikallysekure said:
I'm rather certain he meant he would DIE with the intention of not losing his right. What rights would you or wouldn't you die for?
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What the hell does that mean? His death would have nothing to do with his passion for his right to bear arms. He dead would simply be random.

Teknikallysekure said:
Some people honestly believe that unless you live as a free man, life isn't worth living.
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Right. But no one is completely free.

Teknikallysekure said:
Is it really so sad, or such a stretch for me to aspire to that, or so disturbing to you that such a mindset exists?
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I know, it's the principle of losing a right. You'd rather die. I'd rather live to be alive. Losing the right to own a gun isn't the end of the world, but apparently it is to some people. I find that saddening. Guns only have the potential to bring harm and intimidation. If it were more like the right to see your children, go ahead and prefer to die in a random and tragic massacre.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Exactly! He lied on his application form to purchase the firearms and was given them anyway.

So, someone else should be punished and the system of checking these types of things are in need of an upgrade. It is 2007, how hard is it really for people to check mental health records before selling some asshole a pistol?

I don't know.
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We have already been through this ... but let’s do it again.
Even though the judge found Cho a danger to himself and others, he also found that an outpatient mental facility was a better option then an inpatient program.

Background checks DO NOT indicate if a person has been in an outpatient treatment program, they only indicate if someone has been ordered into an inpatient program, which Cho was not. This is a clear cut example of a problem with not only the system, but the laws pertaining to people with mental issues and their ability to own a firearm.
 
GJSNeptune said:
Semantics is the study of word meanings. And since the world relies on language, semantics is one of the most important things we deal with.

Also, it's only your opinion that what you say is logical.



What the hell does that mean? His death would have nothing to do with his passion for his right to bear arms. He dead would simply be random.



Right. But no one is completely free.



I know, it's the principle of losing a right. You'd rather die. I'd rather live to be alive. Losing the right to own a gun isn't the end of the world, but apparently it is to some people. I find that saddening. Guns only have the potential to bring harm and intimidation. If it were more like the right to see your children, go ahead and prefer to die in a random and tragic massacre.
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Hrm, perhaps I'm misunderstood but I believed semantics could be used in a sense of breaking down pieces of a sentence and nitpicking at the meaning of each individual part as opposed to using the context of a sentence. I could be wrong, anyhow if I am I don't what the word for that is I'm not a linguistics major I work in IT.

Well, we have opposing beliefs. Let's throw rocks at eachother?

Yes, guns only have the ability to cause harm and intimidation, which is why you want lots of other people to have them and not yourself?

I don't think you're stepping outside of your personal periphery to view my viewpoint, while I'm struggling to see yours.

I suggest a book by Yagyu Munenori called "The Life Giving sword". I think that firearms are valid for more than simple intimidation.

The question is, if you invalidate the rights of us to own firearms, then what happens, another war on drugs except against illegal firearms?

You do realize that in order to confiscate all the legal firearms, many more rights will need to be violated than simply the ownership of the firearm. Rights are many faceted, and when one facet is damaged they all take some degree of damage, more are surely to follow.
 
Draax said:
Now this I don’t get. If things ever degenerated to the point where there was a conflict between the people and the government, the people’s right to bare arms wouldn't mean jack. It would all depend on who the military sided with. Private Citizens would have little chance in defeating the United States Military.
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the united states military are the people.
 
Draax said:
We have already been through this ... but let’s do it again.
Even though the judge found Cho a danger to himself and others, he also found that an outpatient mental facility was a better option then an inpatient program.

Background checks DO NOT indicate if a person has been in an outpatient treatment program, they only indicate if someone has been ordered into an inpatient program, which Cho was not. This is a clear cut example of a problem with not only the system, but the laws pertaining to people with mental issues and their ability to own a firearm.
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I think we can agree on this.
 
Do you think through what you say? If he died in a school shooting, he isn't dying for his right to own a gun. He would just be randomly shot and killed, not on his knees in front of a courtroom with the option of living without a gun or dying so others can bear arms.
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Perhaps it was a bad way of wording it. What I mean specifically is that I am willing to live with the risks of gun ownership. Unlikely as it is, I would resist any attempts to take that right away.

The united states military are the people.
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Absolutely, and most of us are in the pro-gun crowd. We have a duty to disobey orders that we believe to be wrong/unconstitutional.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Hrm, perhaps I'm misunderstood but I believed semantics could be used in a sense of breaking down pieces of a sentence and nitpicking at the meaning of each individual part as opposed to using the context of a sentence.
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No. It's the study of words and their meanings. I have a Creative Writing degree, by the way.

I could be wrong, anyhow if I am I don't what the word for that is I'm not a linguistics major I work in IT.

Teknikallysekure said:
Yes, guns only have the ability to cause harm and intimidation, which is why you want lots of other people to have them and not yourself?
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I have not participated in the gun law discussion, nor will I start.

Teknikallysekure said:
I don't think you're stepping outside of your personal periphery to view my viewpoint, while I'm struggling to see yours.
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Then you struggled to read my part about 'the principle' of losing a right. I understand why you'd rather die. I'm saying it's a bit self-destructive. You'd rather die than lose your right to own something that can only bring harm. Do you not see the irony?

Teknikallysekure said:
I suggest a book by Yagyu Munenori called "The Life Giving sword". I think that firearms are valid for more than simple intimidation.
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Noted.

Teknikallysekure said:
The question is, if you invalidate the rights of us to own firearms, then what happens, another war on drugs except against illegal firearms?

You do realize that in order to confiscate all the legal firearms, many more rights will need to be violated than simply the ownership of the firearm. Rights are many faceted, and when one facet is damaged they all take some degree of damage, more are surely to follow.
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Again, I'm not participating in that discussion. I own no guns, and I don't think I ever will. I think guns are cool in a platonic fashion, and I like movies where people arm up so heavily they might tip over before they shoot anyone. That's all harmless fun though.

I'm fine with you wanting to die for certain rights. I would, too, but the right you want to die for is a right that can potentially cause you to take someone or something's life. That's selfish.

The irony is so good that I might have to write it into a story.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Perhaps it was a bad way of wording it. What I mean specifically is that I am willing to live with the risks of gun ownership. Unlikely as it is, I would resist any attempts to take that right away.
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And if the attempt to take it away is someone walking into the room and shooting at you? You can't resist since you said it's what you prefer. You lose all rights if you die. Paradox, no?
 
GJSNeptune said:
No. It's the study of words and their meanings. I have a Creative Writing degree, by the way.

I could be wrong, anyhow if I am I don't what the word for that is I'm not a linguistics major I work in IT.



I have not participated in the gun law discussion, nor will I start.



Then you struggled to read my part about 'the principle' of losing a right. I understand why you'd rather die. I'm saying it's a bit self-destructive. You'd rather die than lose your right to own something that can only bring harm. Do you not see the irony?



Noted.



Again, I'm not participating in that discussion. I own no guns, and I don't think I ever will. I think guns are cool in a platonic fashion, and I like movies where people arm up so heavily they might tip over before they shoot anyone. That's all harmless fun though.

I'm fine with you wanting to die for certain rights. I would, too, but the right you want to die for is a right that can potentially cause you to take someone or something's life. That's selfish.

The irony is so good that I might have to write it into a story.
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Alright, to spin the discussion even further I've been a practicing Buddhist for about 4 years. I imagine to some degree that would influence my views to an extent at times of making me seem nihilistic with what I'm willing to lose my life for.

In the sense of dying needlessly not defending mine or others rights, no obviously that would be nonsensical, I supposed I got sidetracked on that and didn't represent myself most clearly.

I am all for destroying my personal concept of self, but not necessarily my catalyst without purpose.

I dunno, I feel like I'm dragging an argument here in an attempt to explain myself.

A Creative Writer in IT? You musta done a good job writing resumes hahaha!

If I wanted to take it a step further I'd start by asking what happens when people say the movies with firearms aren't simply fun and instead are directly a cause of people's mental states making them become serial killers etc?

I see the firearm as a tool, and the relations to such an argument are generationally only a few steps away from eachother to me. This is part of my problem, and what gets me so passionate about the argument.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Alright, to spin the discussion even further I've been a practicing Buddhist for about 4 years. I imagine to some degree that would influence my views to an extent at times of making me seem nihilistic with what I'm willing to lose my life for.
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Sweet. I took a Buddhism course my senior year in college and I really liked it.

Teknikallysekure said:
A Creative Writer in IT? You musta done a good job writing resumes hahaha!
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Heh. I'm not in IT. Where'd you get that?

Teknikallysekure said:
If I wanted to take it a step further I'd start by asking what happens when people say the movies with firearms aren't simply fun and instead are directly a cause of people's mental states making them become serial killers etc?
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You mean like Jack Thompson's douchebaggery? I dunno. Movies are made to be entertaining, and violence and tragedy are entertaining when they're confined to a controlled and sometimes virtual environment; an environment where no one is actually being harmed, and the events taking place are not real.

Teknikallysekure said:
I see the firearm as a tool, and the relations to such an argument are generationally only a few steps away from eachother to me. This is part of my problem, and what gets me so passionate about the argument.
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I don't really know what that means. What relations?
 
Did they make you go to any temple's and check it out? It's always entertaining we get college people all the time coming in and practicing with us for some class they're taking, some of them really get into it for a while, some of them think we are crazy.

:)

Hahhaa.

Um, I read in your post "I could be wrong, anyhow if I am I don't what the word for that is I'm not a linguistics major I work in IT." out of quotes and thought you were noting this back to me. N/M.

I guess, what I'm suggesting is that I see the loss of any rights as a cascading slope. If justification is presented for removing one thing, then I believe it's much easier to gain taking away another. I don't see the complaints about the involvement of firearms in the crime as to many generations away from the complaints that movies or violent video games caused a mental istability that made this possible.

Can you see what I mean? I understand, one item physically is used to perpetrate the act, but I believe that the item itself is a device easily replaceable with many others.

However the act of making that item unavailable I see very similarly to making entertainment that might condone such an act unavailable...

Or, maybe we should ban Creative Writing, the thought processes involved... hahahaha, j/k

I imagine you're works are much more compelling than Richard McBeef, man that guy sucked at his profession of choice, perhaps that drove him over the edge.

I was reading a German news article today about how Cho was patterning his actions off of the Korean movie Old Boy. Hence the pictures with the hammer etc. Great movie to bad it's going to get this negative attention.
 
Silentbob343 said:
"If you can regularly come up with lunatic interpretations of simple stories, you should major in English.";)
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Heh. Nice. It's been awhile since I read that. 'Tis very true. Especially if you allude to the bible. That's basically all one of my professors did.

Ugh, that reminds me of how awful it is to analyze literature. Damn Literature majors are horrible people and should be avoided at all costs! :D
 
GJSNeptune said:
Heh. Nice. It's been awhile since I read that. 'Tis very true. Especially if you allude to the bible. That's basically all one of my professors did.

Ugh, that reminds me of how awful it is to analyze literature. Damn Literature majors are horrible people and should be avoided at all costs! :D
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Man, you think you have it bad my fiancee is an art Major. Ever seen Art school confidential?

Yeah, that times 10.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Did they make you go to any temple's and check it out? It's always entertaining we get college people all the time coming in and practicing with us for some class they're taking, some of them really get into it for a while, some of them think we are crazy.
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No, but rural Ohio doesn't exactly have an abundance of Buddhist temples. ;)

I ought to see if my hometown has any around.

Teknikallysekure said:
I guess, what I'm suggesting is that I see the loss of any rights as a cascading slope. If justification is presented for removing one thing, then I believe it's much easier to gain taking away another. I don't see the complaints about the involvement of firearms in the crime as to many generations away from the complaints that movies or violent video games caused a mental istability that made this possible.

Can you see what I mean? I understand, one item physically is used to perpetrate the act, but I believe that the item itself is a device easily replaceable with many others.
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I guess you're consolidating all rights into one generic right, or the principle (concept) of having rights in the first place. I think the content of a right is also important though.

Teknikallysekure said:
Or, maybe we should ban Creative Writing, the thought processes involved... hahahaha, j/k
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Shhh. Ockie doesn't appreciate or value "arts degrees."

Teknikallysekure said:
I imagine you're works are much more compelling than Richard McBeef, man that guy sucked at his profession of choice, perhaps that drove him over the edge.
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I hope they are. I do think 'Richard McBeef' is a pretty funny name though. :D

One of his suitemates said he saw Cho almost always typing in Word on his laptop. Granted, they were suitemates only this year, so who knows if he was writing a lot for his "multimedia manifesto." You don't become an English major, and especially a writing major, for no reason. A lot of people laugh at it like it's an easy way to a degree.

Then, of course, all of the non-English majors have a writing course as a gen. ed. and they bitch about how much it sucks. ;) Or non-English majors would be assigned an essay in one of their core classes, and they'd whine about how it has to be four or five pages long. Try a 10-page literary analysis, or a 25-page senior capstone essay. Luckily my senior project was a screenplay. :)

Teknikallysekure said:
I was reading a German news article today about how Cho was patterning his actions off of the Korean movie Old Boy. Hence the pictures with the hammer etc. Great movie to bad it's going to get this negative attention.
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I actually saw Old Boy a year ago or so. Gory, yes, but it had some great camera placements and cinematography, especially when it was completely panned out and you can see the whole hallway as he tears his way across. That was incredible.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
Man, you think you have it bad my fiancee is an art Major. Ever seen Art school confidential?

Yeah, that times 10.
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My girlfriend is Professional Writing with an Art minor. Yeah, it sounds like it sucks. It's bad enough for her with just a minor. I think she spends more time in the drawing studio than she does writing papers. Drawing isn't really her preference though. She likes ceramics and working with her hands more.
 
GJSNeptune said:
My girlfriend is Professional Writing with an Art minor. Yeah, it sounds like it sucks. It's bad enough for her with just a minor. I think she spends more time in the drawing studio than she does writing papers. Drawing isn't really her preference though. She likes ceramics and working with her hands more.
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As far as the temples, you can PM me I don't mind referring you if you have a selection to choose from and are really interested.

Some forms of Buddhism honestly I think are crazy, but it's the same as any other religion. I personally prefer Zen Buddhism, because it doesn't focus on afterlife, or reincarnation or any of that crap. It's all about the here and now, and trying to be an exemplary person in life, so as to make not only your life better but everyone you come into contact with.

Personally, I thought Richard McBeef was a hilarious name, reading the screenplay itself was horrendous though. I've respect for Lit/Eng majors though one of my best friends is working on his Masters right now, the guy is a genius.

If you liked Old Boy, check out Lady Vengeance, it's part of a trio of movies called the revenge trilogy or something like that. Old Boy, Lady Vengeance and some other movie I haven't seen.

All of them dealing with very emotional acts of revenge. Good series.
 
Are we missing something here? Having the right to bear arms or not has nothing to do why Cho decided to gun down 33 people. He didn't get depressed because of the gun laws. He didn't end up hating everyone because of guns. Mental health caused by socio-political climates or social surroundings can not be cured with medicines. It requires something as powerful as cultural and religious experiences to literally reshape the mind. Your ordinary school counselors are not qualified for such a task. If you have questions about God and death and the meaning of life, do you go seek answers from your professors or school counselors? No, you seek answers from a Monk or a Preist. The way psychoanalyic psychology works is about transference. You develop a relationship with the person you try to seek help. This relationship is very personal. You have to have developed trust in this person for you to be helped. This person who is helping you, because of what he or she represents, literally shapes your mind. I don't why he majored in English since, according to the sources from the news media, he was made fun of in the English class during his high school years. I would major something I like and love, but not in reaction to what others have been doing to you.
 
As a current Hokie it deeply saddens me to see this tragedy cheapened by the number of people who took this event as a chance to further their agenda. Jack Thompson using this as another chance to plead his anti-video game agenda. Now also gun control activists, and second amendment activists each using this as an argument for or against gun laws.

Today, Friday, has been marked as a national Orange and Maroon effect day. It would mean a lot if, for today, you all could put aside your agendas and show your support for those affected by this atrocious act. Wear some Maroon or Orange and show your support.

Thank you.
 
I totally would if I had any maroon or orange. Does anyone know about little ribbons being sold or anything? Ohio State here had a big gathering and they had ribbons. Saw it in the paper. I don't think they had writing on them. I want one.

Very sad what happened. Did you know any of the victims or those injured?
 
Szandor's last activity was in 2004, and Blueice41188's was 9-06-2006. Do they go to VT?
 
jmackay said:
Sorry if this has been posted already, as I haven't read this thread since the original posting

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18220228/

Glad the media is taking action like I was hoping they would
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My favorite part of that article was where they state that massacre chasers are worse then ambulance chasers. Guess who was an ambulance chaser before he started his crusade against video games ... yup good ol’ Jack.
 
I love his hair, and how he wrote a letter to Bill Gates, blaming him for Counter-Strike. :D

(Microsoft did not create "Counter Strike" but did publish a version of it for the Xbox. The company's representatives declined to comment on Thompson's letter. MSNBC.com is a Microsoft-NBC Universal joint venture.)
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:D
 
Ockie said:
That Thompson guy is the biggest fucktard I've ever heard of... he definitely takes the cake.
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+1....The guy is a media attention whore....

The rest I cant say, as he might blame the video games for what I would like to see happen to him...:)
 
GJSNeptune said:
If video games are mental masturbation, his antics are media attention masturbation.
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If video games was a mental masturbation, I would be blind right now and would have one helluva brain muscle :D
 
But a short time later, the newspaper removed that paragraph from the story without explanation. Meanwhile, authorities released a search warrant listing the items found in Cho's dorm room. Not a single video game, console or gaming gadget was on the list, though a computer was confiscated. And in an interview with Chris Matthews of "Hardball," Cho's university suite-mate said he had never seen Cho play video games.

None of this seems to matter to Thompson.

"This is not rocket science. When a kid who has never killed anyone in his life goes on a rampage and looks like the Terminator, he's a video gamer," he told MSNBC.com.
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'

Wow. Mr. Thompson, you sir have some serious mental issues. "When a lawyer has never won a case against a game company and acts like a rabid crack whore, he's Jack Thompson"
 
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