Vista and Creative

[Tengis]

Is there any guaranteed way to get my SB Audigy2 ZS to work? Ive went through about 3 different procedures and the sound just WILL NOT work. Im about to update to the latest build of Vista... maybe that will fix something.

Please, for the love of god, if someone posts something that works then sticky it.

 

[bobrownik]

yup , i had same problems ,

finally i let my audigy2 meet my chainsaw
and fired off a nice email to creative ,

now i have a quality non creative soundcard,

will never buy creative crap again

 

[djnes]

Why can't you just load the drivers from their site? I had no problems loading those drivers for my card in RC1. I ran the installer file using XP compatibility mode, but it worked fine. Also, while it's easy to get your panties in a bunch of Creative's past, don't forget that this is a beta OS. Wait until it's final and released before you light the torches and run through the streets.

 

[bobrownik]

beta os should have beta drivers , especially from leading companies like creative ,

creative beta drivers didn't work at all, i don't even know why they released them,,you might have gotten the latest 32bit driver to work ,

you would be shit out of luck if u wanted a half way working 64bit driver anytime before august, does the new one even work?

i moved on , the company doesn't deserve my money, and by the way their hardware sucks compared to the competition and is stupidly overpriced
,

 

[djnes]

Considering all the problems with hardware compatability with XP64, what would you expect with Vista 64 beta??? When there's a need or a reason for 64 bit OSes on a desktop, you can expect support to take the top priority. Any Windows based 64 bit OSes are works in progress right now, at best, which is why most people have been sticking with XP32. Considering that, top priority goes to 32 bit code right now for these products. Many people have gotten the drivers in question to work. They don't need to be perfect right now, because the OS in question hasn't been released. I'm not sure why so many people expect Vista and every related piece of hardware and software to work perfectly right now. That's just not how it works.

 

[bluesteel]

Im sorry but your obviously not seeing the obvious. Expecting drivers for an operating system that isnt even final is just ABSURD. Especially when the 32x drivers work just fine. If the os was live i could see you stopping using creative but otherwise its just sad.

 

[drizzt81]

Im sorry but your obviously not seeing the obvious. Expecting drivers for an operating system that isnt even final is just ABSURD. Especially when the 32x drivers work just fine. If the os was live i could see you stopping using creative but otherwise its just sad.

Bobrownik and your preferences appear to be different. For him, it is important that whoever manufacturs his hardware will provide him with (prerelease) drivers for a prerelease operating system. Irrespective of whether this preference is rational, Bobrownik was proactive in making changes instead of whining about "omfg why doesn't creative have working vista x64 drivers" and went to the competition, who satisfied his demand. I don't see anything wrong with it, in fact I applaud him for that

*claps hands*

Few people have the balls to just cut their losses and go with a competitior if the incumbent is unwilling to satisfy market demand.

It may well be that in the soundcard domain, where innovation has been at a standstill for a while, providing customers with drivers for pre-release operating systems is a competitive advantage. If CL thinks that they do not need this advantage then so be it, but they should not be surprised if the market decides that their competitiors products are more desirable.

 

[bluesteel]

Bobrownik and your preferences appear to be different. For him, it is important that whoever manufacturs his hardware will provide him with (prerelease) drivers for a prerelease operating system. Irrespective of whether this preference is rational, Bobrownik was proactive in making changes instead of whining about "omfg why doesn't creative have working vista x64 drivers" and went to the competition, who satisfied his demand. I don't see anything wrong with it, in fact I applaud him for that

*claps hands*

Few people have the balls to just cut their losses and go with a competitior if the incumbent is unwilling to satisfy market demand.

It may well be that in the soundcard domain, where innovation has been at a standstill for a while, providing customers with drivers for pre-release operating systems is a competitive advantage. If CL thinks that they do not need this advantage then so be it, but they should not be surprised if the market decides that their competitiors products are more desirable.

My point was that CL did provide drivers for the majority of their users. While your argument is commendable that doesnt mean your opinion is sound. To add to that anyone currently using vista RC1 as their primary OS are imho jumping the gun big time.

 

[Josh_B]

My point was that CL did provide drivers for the majority of their users. While your argument is commendable that doesnt mean your opinion is sound. To add to that anyone currently using vista RC1 as their primary OS are imho jumping the gun big time.

How likely would you rate the release of a mature Creative SB Audigy 2 x64 driver at Vista release?

Indeed, you are correct that beta-OS' shouldn't be expected to get full support, however who do you think will be handling beta-testing when the OS goes gold? Consumers should expect companies to work with each other to make the transition smooth - both from IA32 OS' to x64-ones, and from XP to Vista.

Creative needs to remember who made them who they are today.

 

[bluesteel]

How likely would you rate the release of a mature Creative SB Audigy 2 x64 driver at Vista release?

Indeed, you are correct that beta-OS' shouldn't be expected to get full support, however who do you think will be handling beta-testing when the OS goes gold? Consumers should expect companies to work with each other to make the transition smooth - both from IA32 OS' to x64-ones, and from XP to Vista.

Creative needs to remember who made them who they are today.

So diverting resources to work on a driver, for an os that hasnt been released yet and is for a market that represents less than 1% of their sales makes sense? Not at all, run a business like that and you go in the hole, thats why creative had dominated that market for so long to begin with. I agree i would be pissed if their werent drivers available for my card in the config i use, but i dont agree that i should find falt with a company for the reasons you stated .

 

[nilepez]

So diverting resources to work on a driver, for an os that hasnt been released yet and is for a market that represents less than 1% of their sales makes sense? Not at all, run a business like that and you go in the hole, thats why creative had dominated that market for so long to begin with. I agree i would be pissed if their werent drivers available for my card in the config i use, but i dont agree that i should find falt with a company for the reasons you stated .

Should they put them out to serve 1% of the market? No, they should put them out to get them tested so they can find and fix the inevitable bugs now, instead of releasing beta drivers (they won't call them that) in January. Then again, this is Creative, and they have a reputation to live down to.

FWIW, I don't need the drivers. I've got onboard audio that's fine for the beta and frankly, if they hose the drivers, I'll just remove the card, use onboard for games. I've got an M-Audio 2496 for music work in wavelab.

 

[bobrownik]

indeed , the drivers need to be developed and released for testing asap ,

-it lets the companies work out majority of the bugs by the systems launch date
and they get the beta testing for free

-and it satisfies their customers, the early adopters of new technologies,

your 1% point is pointless ,
-because they will have to write and test the drivers sooner or later,

-by doing what they have done for past 6months or longer (which is nothing) just pisses off the customers and loses the business in the long run

-all computer users want the drivers to work , they don't want to be beta testing a buggy shit driver that creative pulls out of their ass 2 weeks before the vista goes gold,

 

[djnes]

bobbrownik, considering many people have been able to get their drivers working, but you had issues, did you report those issues to Creative?

 

[Catweazle]

Considering that this discussion has swung around to consideration of Vista x64 device drivers, it's gotten ridiculous. We're talking here about a reasonable quality consumer-oriented soundcard! What on Earth is the point of running it under an x64 environment? Sure, there'll be a very small percentage of people who'll want to use x64 just for the hell of it, but Vista x64 isn't a mainstream consumer OS. x64 won't be mainstream consumer oriented for years yet! Just because the CPU manufacturers bolted on some 64-bit extensions doesn't mean that a 64-bit OS is what everybody should be using. The Beta bug-testing should be primarily directed at what people are actually going to USE.

 

[bobrownik]

bobbrownik, considering many people have been able to get their drivers working, but you had issues, did you report those issues to Creative?

the 64bit driver creative released simply didn't work (means the system would not accept it as a correct driver for the hardware) ,it was a waste of time to even download them, there was really nothing to report , i think u are talking about a 32bit driver

some smart guy hacked up the 64bit and got his card working , but i think the hacked drivers only worked on a few early vista build,

....doesn't mean that a64-bit OS is what everybody should be using. .

since when are you the authority on which OS people should and should not be using?

The Beta bug-testing should be primarily directed at what people are actually going to USE

so you used your magic crystal ball to determine that the 32bit OS is the future of computing and that 64bit drivers should not be written?

you must be the guy in charge of the driver development team at creative , if not, you sure fallow the same flawed logic

 

[Catweazle]

since when are you the authority on which OS people should and should not be using?

Since my many regular readers started asking me.

so you used your magic crystal ball....

We've had that tired argument before. It's common sense, not a crystal ball.


Creative gear is consumer market stuff. 32-bit windows installations are consumer market stuff. 64-bit installations are an optional alternative for the curious and a necessity for the very, very small proportion of people with advanced needs. "Because I want to" does not constitute an advanced need. Hardware designed for professional, heavy-duty use already has adequate 64-bit device drivers provided. Jumping up and down because they're not yet available at a consumer market level is a bit ridiculous.


And there's no need to flame people for saying so!

 

[djnes]

the 64bit driver creative released simply didn't work (means the system would not accept it as a correct driver for the hardware) ,it was a waste of time to even download them, there was really nothing to report ,

If you aren't going to bother reporting an issue with a beta driver, you forfiet your right to bitch about it. It's funny, though, that you complain about THEIR lack of effort.

since when are you the authority on which OS people should and should not be using?

It doesn't take an expert to know that 64 bit XP and 64 bit Vista aren't for everyone, or even for most people. A very simple understanding of OSes is all that's required.

 

[nilepez]

Just because the CPU manufacturers bolted on some 64-bit extensions doesn't mean that a 64-bit OS is what everybody should be using. The Beta bug-testing should be primarily directed at what people are actually going to USE.

I know that was true for some (all?) recent intel desktop CPUs, but at the risk of sounding ignorant, isn't the A64 a true 64bit CPU that's backwards compatible with 32bit OSs?

 

[bluesteel]

Considering that this discussion has swung around to consideration of Vista x64 device drivers, it's gotten ridiculous. We're talking here about a reasonable quality consumer-oriented soundcard! What on Earth is the point of running it under an x64 environment? Sure, there'll be a very small percentage of people who'll want to use x64 just for the hell of it, but Vista x64 isn't a mainstream consumer OS. x64 won't be mainstream consumer oriented for years yet! Just because the CPU manufacturers bolted on some 64-bit extensions doesn't mean that a 64-bit OS is what everybody should be using. The Beta bug-testing should be primarily directed at what people are actually going to USE.

Agreed. All good points. I know it would suck for those peopel who wish to use the os in an x64 format, I would like to think that those users would be intelligent enough to realise the type of work needed to meet their needs and be a bit more patient.

 

[bobrownik]

If you aren't going to bother reporting an issue with a beta driver, you forfiet your right to bitch about it. It's funny, though, that you complain about THEIR lack of effort.

since you put it that way , i wasn't bitching , i said i got a different card and will not purchase another creative product, ..not really bitching , i got over creatives lack of customer support

i did send an email to creative saying their shit drivers don't work, so i guess you can consider that as "reporting a problem"

creative had same broken driver for download for a few months , i don't know the exact time frame, 6 months? maybe longer ,

how many email do they need to realize their shit driver does not work?

Quote:
since when are you the authority on which OS people should and should not be using?
Since my many regular readers started asking me.

lolz , thats called an opinion, and you know what "they" say about opinions....

 

[bluesteel]

since you put it that way , i wasn't bitching , i said i got a different card and will not purchase another creative product, ..not really bitching , i got over creatives lack of customer support

i did send an email to creative saying their shit drivers don't work, so i guess you can consider that as "reporting a problem"

creative had same broken driver for download for a few months , i don't know the exact time frame, 6 months? maybe longer ,

how many email do they need to realize their shit driver does not work?



lolz , thats called an opinion, and you know what "they" say about opinions....

Lack of customer support? Learn to math.

 

[bobrownik]

Lack of customer support? Learn to math.

i love stupid people

 

[bluesteel]

i love stupid people

Sigh.

Give me a decent estimate at what percentage of creatives customers are using an x64 format, and then you can take cheap shots all you want.

 

[Tengis]

Yo... ya... um... I dont see anyone suggesting how to get the drivers to work.

 

[TheNuker]

Yo... ya... um... I dont see anyone suggesting how to get the drivers to work.

Of course you don't. The point of forums is to:
a)Turn everything into a flame war;
b)Bash the poor guy because he don't have 1337 hardware;
c)Brag; (ie: Someone: "hey, how do I install the drivers for XXXX printer?"
Bragger:"dude u suck @ss, I can print at 100pages per second @16aniso/8xAA with my $10000,00 printer with my AMD X2 5000++@9000 VOLCANO ULTRA-PRO,4GB PC10000 RAM, OCT-SLI GEFORCE8-8800GTX-POWER, SB-MORTALITY!!, 10TB SATA VELOCIRAPTOR HDD WARP-SPEED RPM");

 

[Blackwind]

I have yet to see a single OS release that had even close to 50% of the drivers I required for my existing hardware so why would Vista be any different? So he decided to use another vendor, more power to em. Some of us are a bit more realistic on expectations.

 

[tesfaye]

Of course you don't. The point of forums is to:
a)Turn everything into a flame war;
b)Bash the poor guy because he don't have 1337 hardware;
c)Brag; (ie: Someone: "hey, how do I install the drivers for XXXX printer?"
Bragger:"dude u suck @ss, I can print at 100pages per second @16aniso/8xAA with my $10000,00 printer with my AMD X2 5000++@9000 VOLCANO ULTRA-PRO,4GB PC10000 RAM, OCT-SLI GEFORCE8-8800GTX-POWER, SB-MORTALITY!!, 10TB SATA VELOCIRAPTOR HDD WARP-SPEED RPM");[/QUOTE]

I can't believe he didn't mention the Enermax Dominator 10000MegaWatt Nuclear PSU as it's the only model that could power that beast.

To the OP, check Creative's forums. There are a few threads on getting the various SB Audigy and X-fi cards working in Vista RC1. I was able to get my Audigy 4Pro working using the Beta 2 drivers. I installed them while logged on as Administrator and after reboot clicked through a few "Busted App" dialogs (yes that's what the title bar says) that complained about open handles while logging on and everything worked and was as limited as the release notes stated it would be. Those dialog boxes never showed up again.

There isn't any EAX but the sound quality is great!

 

[TheNuker]

I can't believe he didn't mention the Enermax Dominator 10000MegaWatt Nuclear PSU as it's the only model that could power that beast.

Of course I didn't, Nuclear PSU is POS, only a Antec ZPM(Zero Point Module, draining energy from our subspace) with 1x10¹¹¹¹¹¹¹¹¹¹ JWatts provides stable overclocking.

Edit: and btw, the "J" on JWatts stands for a measurement unit yet to be discovered.

 

[tesfaye]

"j" != jiggawatts?

edit: I wonder how long it will take before Creative releases official drivers for Vista. Most manufacturers didn't have have drivers ready for previous gen products when Windows XP shipped.

 

[Josh_B]

If you aren't going to bother reporting an issue with a beta driver, you forfiet your right to bitch about it. It's funny, though, that you complain about THEIR lack of effort.

It doesn't take an expert to know that 64 bit XP and 64 bit Vista aren't for everyone, or even for most people. A very simple understanding of OSes is all that's required.

Actually, most sales of Vista will be OEM pre-installs. Given that, most OEMs will probably want to ship the x64 version, I would think.

What does MS project as their OS sales split for IA32/AMD64?

 

[Josh_B]

Sigh.

Give me a decent estimate at what percentage of creatives customers are using an x64 format, and then you can take cheap shots all you want.

Why can't Creative release BETA drivers? They've already proven the Beta drivers exist... why not let us have them?

So they put a low-priority on x64-bitness. That doesn't mean they should ignore it. x64 is the future... maybe they ought to get on it already?

 

[nilepez]

Anandtech reviewed the latest build a day or 2 back. The part that I found interesting, which nobody has mentioned here, AFAIK, is here

The third notable issue is audio for gaming purposes, and while we'll have a lot more on this when the final version of Vista is released, it at least deserves a quick mention right now. As Microsoft has moved most of the Windows audio system into Vista itself and out of hardware and drivers, DirectSound3D is no longer hardware accelerated and EAX effects may never work with it again. There are several exceptions and specific scenarios to talk about here, especially with Creative Labs' soundcards since they're the de-facto vendor of gaming soundcards, but it looks like a lot of older games are going to lose some of their audio abilities. There may also be a greater performance hit due to the amount of processing that is now done solely in software.

I won't claim I understand exactly what they're doing or why, but it does explain why no advanced features don't work.

 

[djnes]

Actually, most sales of Vista will be OEM pre-installs. Given that, most OEMs will probably want to ship the x64 version, I would think.

What does MS project as their OS sales split for IA32/AMD64?

Why would most OEMs be shipping the 64 bit version? Think about the average user, and tell me what they need a 64 bit OS for? As if they didn't have enough hassle of learning a new OS and dealing with driver issues?

No one will argue that 64 bit computing is the future....but it's not coming up anytime real soon. Look it how long it took to fully move from 16 bit to 32 bit OSes? XP64 right now doesn't offer anything for the typical user over XP32, and the same can be said for Vista. That will certainly change down the road, but honestly...do you see AOL 64 coming out soon? Microsoft Office 64? Pinball 64? You have to remember that the elite power users make up a very VERY small percentage of actual computer users.

 

[tesfaye]

Check out http://channel9.msdn.com and look for video interviews with the Vista team members. There should be a video on the new Vista Audio system. They restructured the audio subsystem for better flexibility, performance and most of all stability. I doubt that MS would take an axe to EAX and DS3D acceleration and make it pointless to use hardware accelerated sound. That would be a step backwards. You can probably safely bet that all that's required is for Creative to restructure their drivers to provide acceleration with the new architecture. Creative will pull through at some point. You can't pound them too hard for not releasing more beta drivers to the public. That would be a support nightmare. They just can't win. If they released nothing everyone would complain. They released what they thought was acceptable for the general public to test the OS with and they did it twice. It was late but who knows what they are going through with the development of the drivers. From my point of view it seems that MS is changing things constantly so it's hard to keep up. I had issues with various levels of sound stuttering and distortion until this latest build of Vista using the same Creative drivers. Let's not be so hard on Creative.

I don't know about you guys but ignoring FPS scores, gaming on Vista build 5728 feels smoother than on XP even while Vista is using MS supplied video drivers and crippled Creative drivers.