Voodoo/HP Blackbird

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theDreamer

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Blackbird

This is the recently announced PC, from the efforts of both Voodoo and HP.
Since this is the Computer & Gadget section I was wondering what people think about it?
 
My god that computer is fugly that club foot it has is terrible. As for the computer seems to be the same thing as other big OEMS and seems to be a good comp. My biggest gripe is they gush about an aluminum chaise most none OEMs only use aluminum cases in ever computer that should be normal.lol One thing that it dose have that some don't is the graphics card water cooling cooling and the nifty heat sinks and heat pipes. But the water cooling may only be so effective depending on its quality. Overal there going to have to prove to everyone that they can be on that level. What I have herd about Hps support and have seen I don't know if they can do any better than Dell or Gateway. I would take a VM ,OPC, Maingear, AVA direct, Way before I would take this thing. I don't know the companies I have listed are the only ones to me who seemed to have a decent price, and more importantly a good balance between power and luxury. And last but not least great service.
 
Overall, I like the Blackbird 002. I would put it over an Alienware or XPS system. So this is what voodoo would do if they have money plus R&D...

As far as the pros go:
-great looking chassis (not a big fan of the leg, but i bet it would grow on ya)
-factory watercooling system
-HP will increase its rep in the gaming community
-great hd bays (or atleast i love em)

cons:
-HEAVY, hard for transportation; as if computers weren't awkward enough to carry
-watercooling leaves upgrading into question (most likely not a problem though)
-EXPENSIVE; i haven't seen the price on it, but i promise this thing wont be cheap, why not just buy a REAL voodoo?
 
Some good points.

About certain features:
~The leg is to help with cooling, adding another side to cool the system.
~The system price is starting at ~2k going up to just over 7k.
~The system is one strong system and the leg is very very durable.

~Also, it has been said that Voodoo is working on their version of there next model (around this design sort of). Though it will have the Voodoo style and upper end we expect (along with the price).
 
I was utterly unimpressed by this thing.

The chassis is not at all what I expected considering the "Blackbird" name -- I was waiting for something slick, smooth, very simple... not a Silverstone on a big ugly metal foot. I agree with what several others have said -- it looks horrid. I would not buy the case separately, and I'd certainly not pay for the machine as a whole, considering the mediocre nature of what $2500 will get you in that case, and the fact that you could get the equivalent of their $7000 config for less than half of that. Of course it's not being marketed to me... but who is it being marketed to? Stupid people with too much money and no sense of style?
 
Whoop that trick, yeah whoop that trick. Lol... sorry, just saw that movie today. I think you got the gist of what I feel about that computer though. Overpriced, and ugly. Although, I heard it was very functional (engadget). They swapped out a hard drive in 12sec.
 
The sad thing is their Virtuis (or whatever it was, a few days ago on Engadget) looked interesting. They make the Blackbird look a bit better on their flash site, but over all I think it's just... uninspired.

From the side it looks alright, but they really screwed up the front grill somehow... I wish it were tapered, like more narrow on the top that the bottom, just a bit. Not sure.
 
It does narrow, but from back to front.
The backside is slightly larger because of more cooling need and air flow, while the front is mostly hard drive and such so it narrows a bit.
 
Both ways for more of a streamlined, "plane" feel. It's just too boxy from the front for something called the "Blackbird" in my opinion.
 
Well,it's different,I'll give them that.At least in the looks department.But it just enforces my feeling that companies like HP and Dell make most of their money selling low level systems with low level componants and limited life but marketed as high end to consumers who don't inform themselves on what to look for .When they do put out a true high end machine,it'll cost you an arm and a leg.You could probably get the same system,minus the fancy case,for a fraction of the cost at a builder like AVA or VM.
 
It foot is kinda funky, but I found this pic interesting
blackpcbkd0.jpg

A HD2*00 with a black PCB is pretty hot looking and it looks to be in the third PCIx16 slot

But the Video options are pretty wierd
Two Doublewide, 16-lane PCI Express graphics slot with one or more of the following graphic cards installed:

NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600 GT with 256MB of GDDR2 SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS with 640MB of GDDR2 SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port (available with liquid cooling)
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX, with 756MB of GDDR2 SDRAM one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port (available with liquid cooling)
ATI RADEON™ X2900 XT 512MB, with 512MB of GDDR2 SDRAM, (available with liquid-cooling)
ATI RADEON X2900™ XT 1GB, with 1GB of GDDR2 SDRAM, (available with liquid-cooling)
ATI RADEON™ HD 2600 XT, with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, Dual configuration only.
Click to expand...

I think they might have gotten DDR2 mixed up with DDR3 and the same with DDR3 and DDR4
 
There have been more spelling, tech errors found also.
On the note that they are using low end parts is actually incorrect, they are using upper end parts as I am aware of currently, these are not your "what can we take out to cut cost, but raise price."

There is also a video of Rahul presenting the case and taking it apart, do not where it is anymore though.
 
Just got confirmed reports about what parts they will be using.
They will be using OEM style parts which is designed, as they have stated, for user upgrades, easer transfer from X part to upgrade of X, etc.

So basically the only "low" end parts you can buy are if you buy the lower end version of a part, but you are still getting top quality.
 
michael.pa2 said:
Well,it's different,I'll give them that.At least in the looks department.But it just enforces my feeling that companies like HP and Dell make most of their money selling low level systems with low level componants and limited life but marketed as high end to consumers who don't inform themselves on what to look for .When they do put out a true high end machine,it'll cost you an arm and a leg.You could probably get the same system,minus the fancy case,for a fraction of the cost at a builder like AVA or VM.
Click to expand...

This is the same comment made on every thread about premade computer systems. Well, I priced the Blackbird at those sites and others and the Blackbird is -cheaper-!

anandtech priced the parts on the $5,500 Derdication editition at around $4,500. People that say "I can build that for -half- the price" are fooling themselves.
 
rinaldo00 said:
This is the same comment made on every thread about premade computer systems. Well, I priced the Blackbird at those sites and others and the Blackbird is -cheaper-!

anandtech priced the parts on the $5,500 Derdication editition at around $4,500. People that say "I can build that for -half- the price" are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

List exactly what you priced. Also, most when making that sort of claim are assuming you'd make intelligent choices rather than replicate the machine exactly. There are often better or at least equivalent parts available for less money, compared with what HP or other system builders would use. It's also worth noting that you'll rarely see people suggesting getting it via another builder. Normally, the claim is that you could build the machine for 1/2 or less /yourself/.
 
When people say "I can build that for half the price" it should mean replicate the parts
-exactly- or else say "I can build a machine close in performance for half the price."

Here is the price list, note the $4,142 price is -without- case and assembly. I'd say with that included it goes up to $4,500. I also think some of their prices are a bit low, I know the HP uses EVGA Ultras and those don't come cheap.

HP priced this well to get buzz. If you were to compare the -exact- machine to other builders it comes out less. The anandtech article admits it.

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=3115&p=3
 
A bit from that page:

For quick contrast, we took a look at a couple of other similarly equipped systems from boutique computer vendors. Specifically, we looked at Alienware's Area-51 ALX, Falcon Northwest's Mach V, and VoodooPC's Omen. The cheapest of these three is the Alienware, which will cost around $6,000 when configured similarly to the Blackbird 002. (Dell's XPS 720H2C also carries a similar price.) The Mach V will cost around $7,600 without a custom paint job, or about $8,200 with a single color paint scheme and as much as $10,000 if you want to go all out on the case graphics. VoodooPC doesn't offer the Omen without a high-end paint job, and the price ends up starting around $8,000. The closest we could come to matching the price of the Blackbird 002 was with ABS Computers, where we ended up at $5,200 but with a pretty generic case.
 
On the very next page of that review they show an 'overclocking alternative'...where they pick sensibly equivalent parts and come out at 3200ish.

And to point: if you can OC a part to the same levels for half the price, then it is actually building for half the price. I'm not denying that the BB is sensibly priced vs. other boutiques, but building is still savings (big ones) over boutiques.

I was this close to buy a Maingear, was not feeling like building...but then I realized I could go all out on some things and still come at 1500 less with building.
 
ElAntonius said:
On the very next page of that review they show an 'overclocking alternative'...where they pick sensibly equivalent parts and come out at 3200ish.

And to point: if you can OC a part to the same levels for half the price, then it is actually building for half the price. I'm not denying that the BB is sensibly priced vs. other boutiques, but building is still savings (big ones) over boutiques.

I was this close to buy a Maingear, was not feeling like building...but then I realized I could go all out on some things and still come at 1500 less with building.
Click to expand...

But the thing is they used "lower" parts in the over clock DIY rig.
So they will not be able to achieve the same results as the Blackbird system, but what they can do is achieve the same results of a non-over clocked Blackbird system for a good amount less.

Yet they also loss water cooling, warranty, Crossfire on a nVidia board, etc. So overall the pluses and minuses weigh each way into the matter. Do you have the time to build, the ability to achieve the over clock, deal with warranty issues if problems occur, etc.

Overall all I think the Blackbird is a great gaming rig and a step for people who want solid performance without the high boutique prices, but without many of the headaches we all know come with building your own rig (that you may or may not get).
 
ElAntonius said:
On the very next page of that review they show an 'overclocking alternative'...where they pick sensibly equivalent parts and come out at 3200ish.

And to point: if you can OC a part to the same levels for half the price, then it is actually building for half the price. I'm not denying that the BB is sensibly priced vs. other boutiques, but building is still savings (big ones) over boutiques.

I was this close to buy a Maingear, was not feeling like building...but then I realized I could go all out on some things and still come at 1500 less with building.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I am nit-picking but when a person says 'I can build that for half the price', it means to duplicate it exactly. That is the only way to truly access the overcharge for the builder over the raw cost of parts. It doesn't mean 'I can get the same benchmarks for half the price.'

An example. If I buy drug A for $100, and a guy says 'I can get that for half the price' I want a receipt showing drug A for $50, not a generic.
 
I wasn't arguing that the BB is very competitively priced for a pre-built. I'm not in the business of telling people how to spend their cash...if you can afford the system you want from a boutique and want to go that route, go ahead...I almost did! But in the end I decided to go through with building (3rd time I've done it) and I enjoy what I got for my money.

In either case, the argument at hand isn't whether the BB is a ripoff...I'd say it's well priced for a premium system. I'm simply saying that an enthusiast, willing to put up with the headaches accompanied with building/OCing a system, can get an equivalent system for a lot less money. My current rig is a Q6600, Dual EVGA 8800 Ultras, 4gb of Crucial Ballistix Tracer. That cost me roughly 3300 (I could have gone lower, but I splurged on a Tj09 case). is that 'half' of a boutique? Depends on the boutique.

Besides, I have a lifetime warranty on many parts I have (mobo, memory, video cards), and the warranty on the others covers a good chunk of the obsolescence age (3-5 years)...while it can be nice to have a one-stop-shop for tech support, it's not like you magically don't have consumer rights if you DIY.

@Rinaldo: Well, this is generally an overclocking enthusiast forum. That's something to keep in mind....most people here take OCing a part as a matter of course. Price really is the antithesis of value...and any comparison of price really needs to be viewed through a spectrum of value/price.

A perfect example is the QX line of intel processors...they are priced well out of the normal range given their performance. HP uses them. Great. Doesn't mean it's a particularly great value.
 
My problem is that I read -every- review I can find on BB rigs. I loved Consumer here, now I go to CPU, MaximumPC, TomsHardware, etc. On -every- review some clown puts down the build with that simplistic 'half price' line, as if the builder were ripping people off for twice their money, yet when if you price the parts you see that the overcharge can be very reasonable.

Remember, you can order lesser parts from builders as well, and they all now offer OCing.

Bottom line is people are comparing apples to oranges and is not fair to the many BBs (like Maingear, VM, OPC) that provide a great product at a reasonable price.
 
rinaldo00 said:
This is the same comment made on every thread about premade computer systems. Well, I priced the Blackbird at those sites and others and the Blackbird is -cheaper-!

anandtech priced the parts on the $5,500 Derdication editition at around $4,500. People that say "I can build that for -half- the price" are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

Never said anything about building it yourself or half the price.And it definitely isn't cheaper than AVA.It may be cheaper than Voodoo,Falcon,and Alienware,but that's not saying much since all three are among the most expensive boutique builders.
 
Folks, lots of interesting things to say about Blackbird. Let's keep the discussion centric to that, and not the debate between pre-built and DIY.

Thanks!
 
I for one like the Blackbird, it comes off as being geared for performance than the "pretty" factor. But for those few that want a real pc built with retail parts but lack the experience or knowledge to build one, its a great stepping stone in the right direction. Does anyone here happen to own one ?
 
Yes, I've had a Dedication Edition Blackbird for a week so I think I'm one of the early recipients of the first production units.
I can report that the rig is impressive on several counts although there are some bugs to be worked out at HP Gaming.
The entire package from the shipping box to the documentation to the accessories and the rig itself are extremely well thought out and executed to near perfection. Everything about it exudes quality and clever design.
The case is built like a tank and it truly is totally tool free. I have installed four drives and removed/replaced one vid card without needing a screw driver, hammer or crowbar.
The shipping origin was Voodoo in Calgary and the keyboard/mouse have the Voodoo logo on them, so it's much more than just Voodoo DNA it's a Voodoo with the HP brand behind it.
It ran 3dMark06 out of the box in the mid 16,000's and in a week of running under Vista I've only had one BSOD (running FSX-nVidia driver issue) and no other freezes or hangs.
The only problems I've had were with communications with HP Gaming after the sale. Very poor follow up, but they have since improved and are working on their internal communications.
I'll give a thorough review of the rig if enough of you are interested.
 
Stevo, I'm sure interested in a thorough review (with pics!) if you've got the time.

I've no experience at all with a liquid-cooled system. Does this system require periodic maintence regarding that?

How are the temps in this case? And the noise level?

When you speak with customer service and/or tech support are you speaking to someone in the US or are you speaking to India?
 
I'll give a more thorough report with pics later tonight or tomorrow, but to answer Pegi's questions:
The liquid cooling system has no accessible fillport and they advertise that it is a sealed and maintenance free system.
Tech support, customer care, etc. are all in Canada at Voodoo's (recently expanded) facility.
There isn't a temp monitor that I've found yet, but the top of the case kicks out a huge amount of heat, so it is effective at getting the heat away from the components. It's not silent but it is quite a bit quieter than my current PC which has a couple of 80's on the case. Probably quieter by half.
More later...
 
For all those interested in the Blackbird, here is my personal detailed review of my experiences thus far.

I won’t get into the subject of aesthetics since it is so subjective, i.e. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Either you like the looks of it or you don’t, there doesn’t seem to be much middle ground on this rig.

I ordered the “Dedication Edition” (DE) for a couple of reasons: One, because I’ve been wanting/needing a high performance rig for quite some time and the DE’s were the first released; Two, it was close to what I would’ve configured anyway, besides, the additional hard drive space that I wanted is cheaper to buy elsewhere and install myself.
I’ll get right to the rig and then I’ll tell about my experiences in dealing with HP Gaming.

The system was delivered by Fedex in a large box secured by two straps. The tape on the seam says “Sealed with a Hex” an obvious clue that Voodoo was involved, in fact, the shipping label indicated that it was in fact shipped from Voodoo in Calgary. The packaging was robust and the inner box was well designed with clear unpacking instructions.
216869343-L.jpg

It comes with a very slick package of documentation that contains no less than five volumes and a nice binder box. The booklets are entitled, “Getting Started” (156 pages), “Upgrading and Servicing Guide”, “Troubleshooting and Maintenance”, Limited Warranty and Support”, “System Recovery’. They are well illustrated, professional and system specific. It also comes with the Striker Extreme manual from Asus. The Windows Vista Ultimate OEM pack is included. There’s also the system and application recovery disk for the Blackbird.
After unpacking the rig, my first impression was, “wow this thing is built like a tank”. It immediately gives the impression of a very solid piece of equipment. It is heavy, robust but finely detailed and well crafted. The case has been written about in detail elsewhere but it is definitely impressive in person.
216869520-L.jpg

The front panel has two DVD slots and a neat swing away door for a conventional tray feed drive that is currently blank. That door is aluminum as well and when closed it disappears into the ribbed design. On the top there’s the front panel I/O ports in a spring loaded console that pops up, all aluminum again. It is very solid and feels like ‘quality’.
216869384-L.jpg

216869347-L.jpg

The rear panel has the standard Striker I/O shield with the LED POST display. They also incorporated a couple of white LED’s to assist in plugging in devices into the back panel; one over the I/O shield and another over the expansion bays. Then beside the expansion bays there’s an array of square toggles that are used to secure/release the expansion cards.
216869348-L.jpg


Opening the main side panel is simple performed by pulling the aluminum latch and swinging open the door. The door easily lifts off the hinges for full access. Once again, the entire mechanism feels robust and well designed. The door even has a ‘weatherstripping’ seal around it to eliminate vibration.
216869431-L.jpg

Once inside, the main motherboard area is separated from the expansion bays and power supply by compartments. This main area is wide open and the only wiring in sight is the power supply to the motherboard and the SATA ribbon to the drives. They are both black and the power cables are sleeved. All very neat and tidy.
216869392-L.jpg

The liquid cooling system consists of a proprietary block on the CPU with the Voodoo logo on it, and proprietary blocks on the two 8800 Ultras (by eVGA). They are connected by 3/8” flex tubing and go to a heat exchanger mounted to the top of the main bay. There are two 120mm fans under the exchanger and blow through it to the top exterior. Overall it is reasonably quiet, but not silent. When I put my hand on the top of the exterior, I can feel a lot of hot air coming out, which is a good thing.
216869391-L.jpg

The video cards and expansion slots are separated from the upper main board by a shelf and are accessed by yet another door. This one is plastic but the hardware is all metal. Then the power supply at the bottom is isolated from everything else by yet another partition.
The drive bays are at the lower front part of the case and there are five tool-free trays that slide out to remove/install hard drives.


I removed the stock 500Gb drive Seagate 7200.10 and installed four 750Gb WD Caviars. It took me less than five minutes to do this without picking up a screwdriver or crowbar. The drives are held in the trays by some neat pin mechanisms and once in the tray, simply slide them in until they’re seated and then snap down the toggle on the tray.
I was also able to remove and replace one of the 8800 Ultra vid cards easily and without tools again. As mentioned earlier, there’s a toggle at the exterior that when flipped, releases whichever expansion card and then simply slide it out. No more fumbling with screws and the risk of dropping one into the nether reaches of the case.
Everything inside and outside of the case is very well thought out, cleverly engineered and executed to near perfection. The fit and finish of all the components is first class.

This was obviously designed by geeks for geeks and it easily accommodates further modding.

It comes with a Razer Tarantula gaming keyboard and mouse and both have the Voodoo logo on them with a glowing red LED.
Now, to fire it up. It booted into Vista Ultimate and I did the usual setup routine to activate it. There was no bloatware installed and the only programs on the 160Gb Raptor other than the OS are AVG anti-virus and some Cyberlink applications to play DVD’s and for labeling lightscribe disks.

I setup my four 750Gb disks into a RAID 0+1 through the BIOS and had it up and running in no time at all.
Out of the box I ran 3Dmark06 and got a score in the mid 16,000’s. I installed FSX and turned up the graphics settings to the max as well as anti-aliasing. I’m running a 30” monitor at 2560x1600 and got frames rates in the 12-14 range. A little disappointing, but if I back off a few settings I can easily get 20-24 FPS.

Now for my experiences in dealing with HP Gaming: I initially contacted the sales reps several times before actually making my purchase. They were always knowledgeable about the systems and appeared to be hard core gamers. The online configurator never went online and is still not up, so they had to look things up from their end. Once I made the decision to buy, things got a bit problematic. I received only one email from them, the initial invoice, but until I actually received the system, no build notice nor any shipping notice were ever sent.

I initially ordered the LP3065 monitor with the system and a few days later changed my mind and cancelled the monitor. I spoke with customer care and they said, “No problem, someone from accounting will email you a new invoice”. The email never came and the system was delivered with the monitor. I immediately called them to notify of the error and was told they’d look into it and get back to me. They didn’t. I called tech support to ask for assistance in setting up the RAID. They helped me find it in the BIOS, but when it didn’t work right away, they said someone would call me back. No one did. Several times when I was on the phone and was transferred to another person, the call would get disconnected. Starting to see a pattern here?
I ended up speaking to a supervisor at customer care to share my frustrations and for help dealing with the monitor situation. She said she’d look into it further and call back the next day. Unfortunately she didn’t call, so I finally sent an email to Rahul Sood (head of HP Gaming) and explained everything that transpired thus far. I told him that I was very impressed with the system but there seemed to be some issues with their communications systems.

He got back to me right away (literally within minutes) and said he was all over it. I got a call the next day from the original customer care supervisor and she was very accommodating in addressing the situations. Since then, I've received another follow up call and an email, so they have been responsive.
In all fairness to HP Gaming, they are going through some growing pains as they integrate the HP culture with the Voodoo culture. Rahul’s attitude indicates that these issues will be straightened out and I have every confidence that they will be able to provide a level of customer service that matches the hardware they produce.

So, in conclusion, the Blackbird is a very solid, well crafted, and thoughtfully designed high end gaming system. Can you build something faster, cheaper yourself? If you have the time, experience and patience, yes. But if you want a state of the art rig that is stable out of the box, your choice is limited to about a dozen vendors. If you want all that at a reasonable price backed by a major international brand, you’re down to HP and Dell at the moment. I configured a similar XPS 720 H2C and came up with a significantly higher price. I prefer the looks of the Blackbird over the XPS as well. The Voodoo connection is worth something to me and the fact that I live in Canada where the Blackbird is built made the decision easier for me. Furthermore, due to the strength of the Canadian dollar, the Blackbird costs less for Canadians than for Americans.
216869512-L.jpg

I rank the system as follows:

  • Design and Engineering: 9.5
  • Construction and Integration: 10
  • Customer Service: 7.5
  • Performance: 9.5
  • Value: 8.5
  • Overall Score: 9.0

The opinions expressed herein are my own and no animals were harmed in the production of this review.
 
Very nice overall look. What kind of temps does the water chiller provide ?
 
can we have some more pics? like of the hdd bays, and of the screen and of the keyboard and mouse?
 
Stevo, how long from the time you ordered did you receive it?

While the Voodoo connection is quite apparent and beneficial, I'm wondering how that would work for U.S. customers; i.e., shipping from Canada can be a long drawn-out process, both for initial shipment and replacement parts (and sending back a computer might be nightmarish). Perhaps they have a US distribution point, as well. I'd long ago crossed Voodoo off my list of boutiques because of the really awful delays and inconsistent customer service read about on their forums. With your living in Canada (didn't realize that!), it's a moot point.

But absolutely beautiful machine, Stevo, I personally really really love it and definitely would look into it if and when the time comes. Good luck with it.
 
Pegi said:
Stevo, how long from the time you ordered did you receive it?

While the Voodoo connection is quite apparent and beneficial, I'm wondering how that would work for U.S. customers; i.e., shipping from Canada can be a long drawn-out process, both for initial shipment and replacement parts (and sending back a computer might be nightmarish). Perhaps they have a US distribution point, as well. I'd long ago crossed Voodoo off my list of boutiques because of the really awful delays and inconsistent customer service read about on their forums. With your living in Canada (didn't realize that!), it's a moot point.
.
Click to expand...

It took about two weeks from the order to delivery but your mileage may vary. They were pre-building the Dedication Edition prior to release, but it's no longer available.
They ship Fedex, so it may add a day to the shipping time. Not really an issue going to the US since there's no duty or customs to pay. Their main market is to the US, so they're geared for that.
Give them a call and ask.
 
Thank you for the pics, i love the hdd rack in those cases! And that mouse and keybard combo are fantastic! Thhere little emblem look cool.:D
 
The DVD rom drives are the best, is that an oem part or are drives like that sold ?
 
thank you for the detailed review and open criticism. the online reviews read like giant ads, nice see some objective feedback.

I have a couple of questions that I was hoping you could address:

1) do you feel it's a good purchase? I mean does the quality of the case warrant the extra cost?

2) Would you have just bought the case if that option was available or are the tweaks part of the reason you purchased it?

3) You mentioned removing a video card - are the video cards cooled and if so, can you remove the cooling without damaging either part?

4) Can you comment on returns, it sounds like that thing weighs a ton, if you had to return it, who pays shipping?

Thanks again for the great review!

-Mike
 
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