Wall Plates or plain old cables?

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braidman

Gawd
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Mar 6, 2003
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My boss is renovating his basement and has hired me to do side work with technical aspects of the basement.

In particular I installed a sweet network covering the basement (and 5 ports upstairs).
How much to charge?
Next is the A/V system.
I'm speccing out a 7.1 system using the Pioneer VSX-1121k and Pioneer in wall speakers to go with his existing 55in Sony LCD.

My question relates to cabling for the surround system.
The system will have 4 inputs (blu-ray, xbox, apple tv and a spare) located under the tv . Then the tuner will be across the room in the network shelf. (the vsx 1121 has a control app for ios and android as well as taking a remote IR signal so it doesn't need to be out front). So that is 5 hdmi's (counting the tv) going across the top of the room (in the ceiling joists).

So my question is should I put in wall plates by the tv and the tuner for the hdmi's and the speakers or should I just run the cables in the walls?

Seems to me like you risk damaging an expensive and expensive to re-place cable if you don't put in a plate. Plus the plates look alot better. But it means 8 connectors and 3 cables for each signal to get across the room, that could be a TON of troubleshooting if something fails..

Plus I really like the idea of banana plugs from the tuner to the wall, makes connect/disconnect so much easier.

What do the HardForum A/V experts think?
 
Can the bluray/xbox/appletv reside on shelves with the tuner? HDMI-CEC should handle the remote for the bluray, xbox is RF wireless, and apple tv has an ios remote app. (Unless they support HDMI-CEC of course)

Another option is you connect the bluray/xbox/appletv to the TV directly, and use HDMI-CEC and Audio Return Channel to get the sound back to the receiver.
 
Speakers should be to wall binding posts.

HDMI depends... I like wall connectors for anything will will be unplugged/replugged because it will minimize stress on the structural wiring.

That said: adding more connections adds additional failure points.
How long are your HDMI runs?
 
I would place everything in the rack, no question.

Anything RF will be able to reach across the room, and for the IR stuff, simply mount an IR blaster in front of the rack with an extender, or better yet, get a universal remote with RF support.

Run one HDMI run across the room to the TV, and for in-wall stuff, I usually recommend using two CAT-6 runs instead of an in-wall HDMI cable. CAT-6 has better range, is easier to install, and many of the solutions have an IR extender built right in when compared to an HDMI cable.

Check monoprice for good HDMI wall plates and extenders. (Monoprice also has wall plates with IR support.)

For any HDMI run, including those over CAT-6, over 20-25 feet I would highly recommend that it be a powered run. If you do not use CAT-6, make sure that you get a good thick HDMI cable; 22 AWG and lower is best for long runs with 24 AWG being acceptable as well.

Use in-wall rated speaker cable with binding post plates and keep line level runs (interconnects) short and out of the walls. When it comes to speaker cable, I would go no thinner than 16 AWG for the first 10 feet, dropping 2 AWG for every 10 feet of the run thereafter down to 12 AWG, or you can just keep it simple and use in-wall 12 AWG everywhere.
 
My Hdmi runs are 30 and 35ft.
Here is where the shelf will be:
2012-01-16_21-10-36_804.jpg


In the under stairs closet.

So there are several reasons I'm not putting everything in there.

For one my boss wants to still have room and access to store things under there..

Blu-ray/Xbox - disks need to be inserted and removed
Apple tv - my boss has five kids and wants to operate things from a remote not an ipad/iphone ...not that he doesn't have any

Tuner - the pioneer has a remote ir plug so I don't have to have space in front of it or fiddle with finicky ir transmitters

Spare Hdmi - in case anyone wants to plug in an additional component

The remote for the tuner is almost unusable (even for me) I'm hoping HDMI-Cec will let the tv remote change the volume (or the harmony I am planning to get)... and Maybe input

The tuner also has an app which is how I hope my boss and his wife will interact with it. (iphones and ipads)(but remember he wants kids to use it too). It has to be somewhat simple to operate.

I want to restrict input changing to just one method, so either everything plugs into the tv or everything plugs into the tuner, if my boss was as savvy as me he would be building this system (plus see above about kids).

I anticipate most uses to be between the xbox and the apple tv, I know the apple tv has the best internet streaming interface of the bunch.

The wall behind the tv will actually be brick, if there is a wall plate on that side it will have to be inside the a/v cabinet (dont know what that will be like yet).

Zangmonkey - I agree save the in wall stuff the stress

TESLA - We have a 40 or 50ft run at work that is plain hdmi cable, not the first glitch or problem. Hdmi is digital, I dont see any reason to spend $100 on single gang plates (I can stuff all the hdmi into one keystone plate (maybe two)). But there might be a reason...convince me..
But then Hdmi keystones are at least $10 each..and I need 10 of those...then I would save $25x5 on the cable since I already have the cat 6...but I have to run two per cable...35x2x5... 350ft of cat6..hmmm
 
For short runs, "hdmi is digital, cable doesn't matter" is true.
For long runs you may have trouble passing 1080p without issue.

There are reviews online using an oscilloscope and signal generator to demonstrate which long-run cables can still pass the 1080p.

Have a look.
You'll find that, when the test was done, the monoprice cables would not pass 1080p at the 50ft length, and the 35-foot length was sketchy.
 
The conclusion I've come to from research is... it May work.. So I will test out that aspect and see if it will work. If it doesnt I guess I will have to run double cat5. Seems like the cost is the same either way, it just creates a wall space problem.
 
AFAIK you cannot pass cable through the wall without a terminating box per NEC, if that is something you care about.
 
Since the room isn't built make your boss move or redesine the room. Running that many hdmi cables is just dumb. I wouldnt do it. if you do make sure its through some kind of pvc pipe where you can pull new cable through if need so you dont have to open the wall or ceiling back up. Ir balsters work i have never had an issue with them. the one in my theater works great and so does the one for the tv up stairs. I have all my stuff rack mounted in the basement. Just hide a ir reciver next to the tv and run it back to the rack over cat 5. Works great up to 350 feet, thats with power. You can hide racks easy if he doesnt want it in site. Still make it easy to just open a door and put the xbox disk in. I have built many theaters from the ground up for clients. You have to tell them some times whats best for the setup. the way they want things isnt always the right way.
 
If you absolutely must have components in multiple places, then I would suggest testing ARC between the TV and the receiver. You do not want to run multiple long distance runs.

As for CAT 5 vs CAT 6 vs traditional HDMI cable, it all comes down to reliability. The most reliable method for the long distance transmission of HDMI signals is over two runs of CAT 6. (Fiber is also an option, but this tends to be for commercial use only.)

Just as you can technically use CAT 5 (not 5e) for gigabit, you can use traditional HDMI cable for a 100 foot run, but you would be doing so out of specification.

Say you tested a 100 foot run of traditional HDMI cable and it worked between his current receiver and TV. Now fast forward to a year later when he decides to switch out his receiver for a brand new one on the market. There is nothing guaranteeing that this new receiver will work with a 100 foot run as 100 feet is well beyond what the HDMI specifications outline. (I am using 100 feet as a nice round number for the example, 30 and 35 feet are still outside of your typical specification.)

Plus, HDMI isn't technically of the "it's digital, it either works or it doesn't" variety due to handshakes and all of the other copyright protection built in. When you start getting into custom installs and larger systems, HDMI can be a huge headache, and trying to diagnose a failed handshake due to the cable's gain being too low is just not worth cutting corners.

EDIT: Also, I agree with Makeroflostsouls, if you are going to stick with multiple runs, then don't run individual wires, encase them in something. Don't use PVC though, you'll want to use a flexible conduit or raceway that is rated for in-wall.
 
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Like Tesla said hand shaking is a pain in the ass with hdmi. i have a brand new yamaha Rx-A2010 and if doesnt hand shake right the screen goes pink. Its very anoying. have to turn it off then back on again. Then hope the hdmi audio on the pc picks back up the reciver with out rebooting it. the more runs of cables you add the more issue you run into. Just make it as simple as you can.
 
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