The thing is with ANY research at all you would see the Sony player for $100 and my Oppo for $150 are indeed "REALLY good" upscaling players! JUST SAYING it is a very viable alternative until this format war blows over! Of course it is in NO way better than true HD but very decent!
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
War of the Formats @ [H] Consumer
- Thread starter Jason_Wall
- Start date
The thing is with ANY research at all you would see the Sony player for $100 and my Oppo for $150 are indeed "REALLY good" upscaling players! JUST SAYING it is a very viable alternative until this format war blows over! Of course it is in NO way better than true HD but very decent!
GoodBoy
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 2,812
I own an excellent Upscaling player, a Denon DVD-1930ci. Get an upscaling player with DCDi (DCDi™ by Faroudja Progressive Scan Decoding) and REGULAR DVD's look awesome. Point taken the cheapy upscaling dvd players do not produce as good of a picture.
Screw Blu-ray and HD DVD, regular dvd's nicely upscaled look great, cost less. You have an initial investment of say $320 for the player, but even that is still cheaper than the cheapest hd players. Plus the blu-ray and hd movies are $30 each. I buy all my movies and $30 is too damn much for my volume. The extra $150 spent on the player is quickly re-couped after say 10 to 15 dvd purchases, in comparison to blu-ray movie costs.
Stick with DVD's, get a GOOD upscaling player. Plug it in via hdmi into your HDtv. REVIEW THAT. I think you will be pleasantly suprised.
DVD's will tide me over until gigabit download speeds or holographic discs become the next level mainstream distribution method.
Screw Blu-ray and HD DVD, regular dvd's nicely upscaled look great, cost less. You have an initial investment of say $320 for the player, but even that is still cheaper than the cheapest hd players. Plus the blu-ray and hd movies are $30 each. I buy all my movies and $30 is too damn much for my volume. The extra $150 spent on the player is quickly re-couped after say 10 to 15 dvd purchases, in comparison to blu-ray movie costs.
Stick with DVD's, get a GOOD upscaling player. Plug it in via hdmi into your HDtv. REVIEW THAT. I think you will be pleasantly suprised.
DVD's will tide me over until gigabit download speeds or holographic discs become the next level mainstream distribution method.
with any research? I know your $150 oppo doesnt have the Faroudja digital processor, only the most costly oppo units do. You therefor arent getting superior upscaling. Dont pick battles you wont win.
I also own said great denon upscaling DVD player... Yes it's great at what it does, turning 480i/p dvd's into something watchable on a 1080p panel.
However it is NOWHERE close to HD-DVD or BluRay (I have both). The additonal detail in 1080p is just stunning.
What you mean to say is that it's still too expensive for you, not that upscaled DVD is even comparable.
Goodboy is a lotto winner, I really doubt anything is too expensive for him in that regard.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Wow finally somebody who understands that a polycarbonate disc isn't the cause for any PQ differences, but rather playback hardware and studio mastering. Have any disc shiiped with BD-J yet, I have heard it should be good. Of course I just want to play/pause/FF/RW/stop/etc so I'm easy to please.both bluray and HD DVD share the same video and audio codex (effectively). the only major difference is 2 things:
1. physical standards
2. Interactivity: BD-J for bluray and HDi for hd dvd.
and there's only 1 minor thing:
1. in order to be backwards compatible, the method in which HD DVD wraps a 'core' track in Dolby or DTS is a bit different than how BluRay does it and it'll affect how playback devices access it.
outside of those things, they're EXACTLY alike, practically speaking.
think about this, if you own an HD DVD burner OR BluRay burner right now you can technically burn HD DVD filestructure in udf 2.5 onto a BluRay blank disc or you can burn a BluRay filestrcture udf 2.6 onto an HD DVD blank disc and have a combo player play both back with ease.
it's like burning smaller SD-DVD video_ts folders to CDR's. your DVD player will read those CDR's as a DVD! duh!
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
There have been some test done by the guys at secrets and it can be even better than the standalone players. People need to get the whole it's only a game/toy stigma out of their heads. Will the PS3 be the best ever? No, of course some super nice hardware player will come along and put out better picture and sound, but from what I've read it hasn't yet.
The PS2 was a poor/medicore DVD player, but the PS3 is a good BD player.
w1retap
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2006
- Messages
- 13,717
+1.. I own both HDDVD and a nice LG upscaling player. Sorry, but the upscaling doesn't even touch HDDVD in terms of picture quality and detail.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Most Studios went with BR, because of the increased security measures, in fact they demanded better security to release their picuteres in HD. Both use AACS and Blu Ray has a couple more security features on top of AACS.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Probably been addressed, but you upscaling player doesn't add back detail that was thrown out in the mastering process. It simply scales the image instead of the display doing it. Upscaling players have a place if you display has a poor quality scaler or lacks one entirely.
So once again upscaled DVDs have nothing on trued HD.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
VC-1 can be played back on Blu Ray players too, Studios supporting both use the same VC-1 encodes. As far as which is better well...you can look at that in various forums for codecs and video encoding.
Damn I wish this part of the forum had an edit feature........
GoodBoy
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 2,812
I meant that for me it is not yet worth the money. I would rather build a larger more complete dvd collection than have a smaller hi-def movie library.
Getting a good upscaling player can help improve a consumers entire existing library of dvd's if they have a hi-def tv. It's a way to extend the value of already owned movies, and get something extra from the HDtv. It's a good alternative while we wait for this stupid format war to run its course.
Sony's ps2 ultimately became successful because of the library of software for it. Not because it doubled as a dvd player. The games made for it made it a popular game console, not because Sony = god (which they do not).
The ps3 will likely become a decent gaming platform, in another year or so. By decent I mean it will have a fair selection of software that makes it appealing to a large enough target audience. I'm not about to buy one just for blu-ray. I refuse to pick sides on this format war. It's stupid. It's based on greed (Sony's). I can get visual quality thats something between dvd and hi-def dvd from an above average (upscaling) player, and for me, for the money, it's the right way to go.
Getting a good upscaling player can help improve a consumers entire existing library of dvd's if they have a hi-def tv. It's a way to extend the value of already owned movies, and get something extra from the HDtv. It's a good alternative while we wait for this stupid format war to run its course.
Sony's ps2 ultimately became successful because of the library of software for it. Not because it doubled as a dvd player. The games made for it made it a popular game console, not because Sony = god (which they do not).
The ps3 will likely become a decent gaming platform, in another year or so. By decent I mean it will have a fair selection of software that makes it appealing to a large enough target audience. I'm not about to buy one just for blu-ray. I refuse to pick sides on this format war. It's stupid. It's based on greed (Sony's). I can get visual quality thats something between dvd and hi-def dvd from an above average (upscaling) player, and for me, for the money, it's the right way to go.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Well great, to your eyes they may look good enough, but true HD does look better as it reatains more detail from the master during the transcoding process. $30 is retail, but I see plenty of people getting top name BDs for $20-25 from internet and brick and mortar stores.
Also, some people need to realize if a movie on one of the newer formats doesn't look better than upscaled DVD then chances are the master they had for that film was in poor condition or the studio was lazy and didn't put in the effort. If that's the case your beef is with the studios not HD DVD or Blu Ray.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Sony doesn't "own" Blu Ray, they are part of the alliance and as such have a stake in the success of it, but they didn't invent or "own" it.
Not really. Let's say a consumer (we'll call him Bob) goes out and buys a gigantic new HD monitor. Bob gets his new TV set up and soon realizes that his $50 DVD player just won't cut it anymore. He gets online and looks for an upconverting DVD player and finds a nice Denon or Oppo for $300-400. But Bob also discovers that he can buy an HD DVD player that will also do a great job of upconverting his DVD's to 720 or 1080 for $400. He may even get some free HD DVD movies as well, if he shops around. The HD DVD player starts to look more attractive. Even if HD DVD ends up losing the format war sometime in the future, Bob's got a nice upconverting DVD player for about the same price as a non-HD model.
As for the price of media, DVD's sold for $20-30 as well when they first came on the market. Prices will come down as production goes up. In the interim, Netflix rents the entire line of both HD DVD and Blu-Ray titles at no extra charge.
That said, I won't be buying a player in either format for at least 6 months or so, but for someone who's in the market for one now, most consumers will think twice before plunking down $300+ for a DVD-only player.
Trepidati0n
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2004
- Messages
- 9,269
If you have a large collection of existing DVD's, making the "jump" to HD is not worth it. However, I would not continue to increase my existing collection. I would STOP. The format IS changing...saying it won't..is well, foolish.
I completely agree that HD DVD and Blu-ray do put out a better picture than even the best upscaled DVD...however, I will disagree that it looks like crap in comparison. It looks very nice IMO...and i'd be willing to bet more than a minority would agree with me.
Once they get the media down to $20 a pop...I think the real format war will start. $30+ is hard to stomach versus $15. Somehow..$30 to watch a movie 2 or 3 times is just too high.
I completely agree that HD DVD and Blu-ray do put out a better picture than even the best upscaled DVD...however, I will disagree that it looks like crap in comparison. It looks very nice IMO...and i'd be willing to bet more than a minority would agree with me.
Once they get the media down to $20 a pop...I think the real format war will start. $30+ is hard to stomach versus $15. Somehow..$30 to watch a movie 2 or 3 times is just too high.
Upconverted SD DVD vs. High Def DVD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102
Anyone who is actually interested in the difference between upconverted dvd and the new formats needs to look at this thread.
You will see top quality high def releases and low quality high def releases compared to their upconverted SD versions.
I highly recommend anyone who hasn't seen this first hand to check it out.
edit: The thread has comparisons of HD DVD and Blu-ray
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102
Anyone who is actually interested in the difference between upconverted dvd and the new formats needs to look at this thread.
You will see top quality high def releases and low quality high def releases compared to their upconverted SD versions.
I highly recommend anyone who hasn't seen this first hand to check it out.
edit: The thread has comparisons of HD DVD and Blu-ray
overthetop
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2004
- Messages
- 278
Most new Blu-ray movies releases are still using single layer and/or using MPEG-2 codec (especially from Fox).
What about the BD-J fiasco? Now BDA is mandating that all players manufactured after Oct. of this year must support BD-J? I guess the early adopters of standalone Blu-ray players are screwed unless their players support firmware updates that will add the BD-J functionality.
What about the BD-J fiasco? Now BDA is mandating that all players manufactured after Oct. of this year must support BD-J? I guess the early adopters of standalone Blu-ray players are screwed unless their players support firmware updates that will add the BD-J functionality.
WicKeDcHilD
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2006
- Messages
- 568
Why didnt that arctical talk about how BR can have disks that store up to 200gb not just 50gb. I think it was TDK that has a disc that holds 100 already and are trying to do the same with a 200gb BR disk. I think the artical i read said they could burn the disk in 40 minutes...
obviouslytom
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Messages
- 30,164
I personally am going to wait till one "winner" is chosen. Until that time, I will continue to watch and enjoy the movies that I have on LaserDisc (specifically Star Wars). Sorry everyone, you can have your HD resolution, but there is nothing like watching some movies like the original SW on LD
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
The poor MPEG-2 titles were done using a new realtime encoder. MPEG-2 can still look very good and again that is a Studio problem call FOX and let them know you don't like it. They don't want to spend the money to get new mastering tools and software to do it in VC-1 or AVC.
I think most of players are supposed to support BD-J via a F/W update from what I've read over at AVS.
GoodBoy
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 2,812
Thats a good point. I think if a decent HD player hits $250, and can also upconvert (and do a good job at it. This would be an additional selling point) then the market will increase. Once the installed base of players reaches a critical mass, the studios who are exclusively one side or the other will go dual-format, or switch. That will probably be enough to decide the format war.
Till then, I'm still happy with DVD's upconverted.
the hell they dont. the consortium exists to push the format, but bluray is a sony property.
Its even trademarked as 'Sony Blu-ray DiscTM'
Thats a good point. I think if a decent HD player hits $250, and can also upconvert (and do a good job at it. This would be an additional selling point) then the market will increase. Once the installed base of players reaches a critical mass, the studios who are exclusively one side or the other will go dual-format, or switch. That will probably be enough to decide the format war.
Till then, I'm still happy with DVD's upconverted.
ONE studio switching will determine the format war. When Universal goes Blu, its over.
Almost all Blu-ray movies are 25 GB MPEG2 The ones that are 50GB are more money.
with 25 GB and the crappy compression they don't have room for extras. The ariticle failed to mention this big problem.
Almost all HD DVD movies are 30 GB VC-1. They get the extras, and they are less money. The big problem with HD DVD is the move to dual format disks. Some people might like that, but they are 10 bucks more than the non-dual format titles. I would pay the three extra bucks to get them seperate.
Many of my favorite movies are on Blu-ray, but without extras, so I want Blu-ray to fail. Perhaps they will come out with "deluxe" versions of all those titles later, but nobody knows.
I really hate the Dual Format disks. More money plus you can't see which side to put in in a dark home theater, so I want HD DVD to fail.
Bring on the holo disks.
Warren.
with 25 GB and the crappy compression they don't have room for extras. The ariticle failed to mention this big problem.
Almost all HD DVD movies are 30 GB VC-1. They get the extras, and they are less money. The big problem with HD DVD is the move to dual format disks. Some people might like that, but they are 10 bucks more than the non-dual format titles. I would pay the three extra bucks to get them seperate.
Many of my favorite movies are on Blu-ray, but without extras, so I want Blu-ray to fail. Perhaps they will come out with "deluxe" versions of all those titles later, but nobody knows.
I really hate the Dual Format disks. More money plus you can't see which side to put in in a dark home theater, so I want HD DVD to fail.
Bring on the holo disks.
Warren.
Silentbob343
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,944
Redundant as all consortiums exist to push their respective formats, whether it's the HD DVD/DVD Forum or BDA.
Well they might have purchased the rights to it and I could be wrong, but BD development started with HP IIRC. I thought it was simply Blu-Ray Disc TM.
purchased the rights? Bluray has ALWAYS been Sonys baby.
x[sliver];1030831541 said:
Took the words right out of my mouth. My biggest complaint about BR and Sony is their opposition to "OpenCopy". Sony would rather you buy the BR, and the UMD, and PC format if you want to watch one of their movies. This was one of the major points that prevented the single format.
Since Sony has their hand in every pot for BR, why do what's in the customers interests?
yagisencho
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2007
- Messages
- 183
I've viewed 1080i content on our 34" CRT, and while it looks sharp, I can't justify sinking hundreds of dollars into an unproven format. I'm also wary of Sony's closed system, DRM-laden design. And our set doesn't even have an HDMI port, so as soon as a disc enforces signal downgrade, we're back at 640p.
Warner Brothers owns the Harry Potter series though...and given the $200 XBox 360 HD DVD player that works over component video...well...I can't say it's not *tempting*. But it's far from the no-brainer that standard DVD was when it was first released.
All in all, I'm just not excited about it. Maybe if I had a wall-sized display or projector...
Warner Brothers owns the Harry Potter series though...and given the $200 XBox 360 HD DVD player that works over component video...well...I can't say it's not *tempting*. But it's far from the no-brainer that standard DVD was when it was first released.
All in all, I'm just not excited about it. Maybe if I had a wall-sized display or projector...
Tutelary said:
Well, in a collective nutshell, the MPAA and it's little buddies over at HDCP did. Among others. Not only just audio constraints that Tutelary mentioned...but also DRM / HD flags / licenses / recursive HDCP blacklists / et al. Sounds pretty crippled to me.
<opinion follows>
Trying to tell us what we can and can't do at hardware level? Penalizing those that bought what were supposed to be high definition tv's, and not having "HDCP" so now they cant watch what they've legally paid for at every turn. (The TV, the player, and then the media.)
All legally purchased. I don't think so. COMPLETELY unacceptable. We're paying for content. The control is better left to the legal system once the POLICE arrest the people pirating or even worse, reselling the material. Same to those that buy pirated copies.
If the industry as a whole could get it through its thick head, that the single largest thing leading to piracy is the LACK of appropriate pricing. I mean come on. They could EASILY offset their costs (manufacturing/distribution/employees throughout the movie foodchain..) by simply selling more units through lowering the prices. More people get the original, they make *slightly less money perhaps (*gasps at the notion*) but everyone stays legal, and HAPPY.
When the general public is well aware that the media (discs) costs SO little (especially considering the additional discounts that they get due to sheer volume that they buy) and add the fact that there's no way to morally justify the pricing, the public is *going* to resort to alternate means. ($.20 [less with their volume] per disc, vs. $12-$20 per new release??)
And before someone decides to go assuming (albeit QUITE incorrectly) anything about my personal habits...Personally, I think trying to download movies is a waste of time and hard drive space. And buying "copied movies" is simply illegal and not worth the risk (as well as the simple fact that, like most, I WANT THE ORIGINAL disc and covers!!!
What's my personal manner of "sending my message to the movie industry you ask?" Buy as little as humanly possible from the retail outlets. They're as much to blame for pricing as the industry IMO. Pawnshops, flea markets, online sellers (ebay, amazon, craigslist, whatever) will always have first dibs in my book. I *HAPPILY* shelled out almost $150 for quality content, and knew that it was going to a good cause as well, when I purchased my Red-Green boxsets online. There are always exceptions!
What's a shame though, is that the exception isnt the rule. Money going to those that provide the quality, not the leeches in suits that serve little purpose but to add to the inflated pricing within the current mass-market foodchain.
I buy secondhand most any day of the week, and get the same great digital quality, features, functions, etc, and I still get to own the ORIGINAL (cd/movie/whatever) without supporting a single cent to the dilapidated minds that struggle to maintain their stranglehold on the public's wallet.
I love being able to put my Oppo 981 into my 37w3 and watch any of over 600 "retail" <read as: NOT pirated> dvd's on a whim in full upconverted 1080p. No it's not TRUE HD, but it's damn close enough for the money that I've invested (even though that wasnt cheap [by the "average" definition] until the format war settles.
If HD DVD undercuts Blu-Ray at every step of the way, you better believe it'll make a difference to the average consumer. Money talks. Period. Why do you think that VHS won over Beta. Beta was higher quality...and the public said a collective "SO WHAT!"
While Sony made a *very* shrewd move in incorporating the abilities into the PS3 that it did, it'll still come down to pricing overall I believe.
No, it isn't. It's trademarked Blu-ray in the PTO and Sony is merely the owner of the trademark. Being the owner of a mark is not indicative of being the owner of an entire range of IP. The simple fact that the board of directors for the BDA contains more than just Sony, and the fact that the BDA was founded by 9 separate companies, should be dispositive of the fact that BD is not Sony owned, despite what everyone and their mom thinks.
Agreed with you on points in my previous post, have to disagree on this one though.
Simple. To preserve the collection that you've already invested thousands into. NOT doing so would be selling yourself (and your nice shiny new HD TV) short. SD discs (dvd) are still going to look like crap (relatively speaking).
If you've got a massive collection of dvd's, and dont want to suffer through another format upgrade, then you HAVE TO consider an upscaler. Not doing so is leaving yourself open to movie studios to fleece you yet again. Buying the SAME movies that you've paid for, at least twice in SO MANY cases already. Lost, borrowed and unreturned, or damaged discs, etc (the process would repeat: VHS to DVD to HD/BR to holodisc/etc)
Currently, technology allows the physical form factor of optical media to be backwards compatible. Same media size, new lasers can and do read older formats, etc... as long as this holds true, the question should be "why would you NOT want to continue to use your older media?" Especially when a reasonable fee (upconverting Oppo player) allows you to do so within a measure SO close to the visual standard of HD.
The future should be reverse compatible as long as the technology that's intrinsic to the more advanced process itself can allow it to be so. (IE: DVD/cd combo players. cd's werent obselete the instant dvd's came about.) However with HD tv's, SD signal is damned near just that. Motion blurring, macro-blocking, etc. A *quality* upscaling unit allows this to be done with drastically better results.
True on the "off-the-shelf" brands found at your "supermarket type" stores. (wal-mart, target, sears, etc). HOWEVER, if you do your homework prior to succumbing to the "normal" upscaling units, you'll be *substantially* impressed with the results.
I can personally HIGHLY recommend Oppo products as I have seen the results IN PERSON, not just on review sites, or screenshot/comparisons.
The following example completely puts your statement of "Upscaling is crap on any cheap player, across the board." to bed IMO. Mind you, this model is being compared to upscalers costing THOUSANDS more, and comes out on top lb. for lb., $ for $.
OPPO OPDV971H
Scored the Highest Ever 98 (out of 100)
on DVD Benchmark Test
Take a looks at hometheaterhifi.com and see for yourself!!
And then consider what the 981 adds to that!
Not all upscalers are created equal my friend
And no, I don't work for them... LOL -I'm just honestly *that impressed* with the results!!
Simple. To preserve the collection that you've already invested thousands into. NOT doing so would be selling yourself (and your nice shiny new HD TV) short. SD discs (dvd) are still going to look like crap (relatively speaking).
If you've got a massive collection of dvd's, and dont want to suffer through another format upgrade, then you HAVE TO consider an upscaler. Not doing so is leaving yourself open to movie studios to fleece you yet again. Buying the SAME movies that you've paid for, at least twice in SO MANY cases already. Lost, borrowed and unreturned, or damaged discs, etc (the process would repeat: VHS to DVD to HD/BR to holodisc/etc)
Currently, technology allows the physical form factor of optical media to be backwards compatible. Same media size, new lasers can and do read older formats, etc... as long as this holds true, the question should be "why would you NOT want to continue to use your older media?" Especially when a reasonable fee (upconverting Oppo player) allows you to do so within a measure SO close to the visual standard of HD.
The future should be reverse compatible as long as the technology that's intrinsic to the more advanced process itself can allow it to be so. (IE: DVD/cd combo players. cd's werent obselete the instant dvd's came about.) However with HD tv's, SD signal is damned near just that. Motion blurring, macro-blocking, etc. A *quality* upscaling unit allows this to be done with drastically better results.
True on the "off-the-shelf" brands found at your "supermarket type" stores. (wal-mart, target, sears, etc). HOWEVER, if you do your homework prior to succumbing to the "normal" upscaling units, you'll be *substantially* impressed with the results.
I can personally HIGHLY recommend Oppo products as I have seen the results IN PERSON, not just on review sites, or screenshot/comparisons.
The following example completely puts your statement of "Upscaling is crap on any cheap player, across the board." to bed IMO. Mind you, this model is being compared to upscalers costing THOUSANDS more, and comes out on top lb. for lb., $ for $.
OPPO OPDV971H
Scored the Highest Ever 98 (out of 100)
on DVD Benchmark Test
Take a looks at hometheaterhifi.com and see for yourself!!
And then consider what the 981 adds to that!
Not all upscalers are created equal my friend
And no, I don't work for them... LOL -I'm just honestly *that impressed* with the results!!
Mr. Thompson
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2001
- Messages
- 2,561
Another 981 owner here. Until the software is priced at a reasonable level HD DVD will not reach the masses. Do the math.
I'm honestly very disappointed with this article, as it left out some key advantages on HD-DVD that you cannot ignore if you care about the audio experience. Even though video quality has started pulling even between the two formats, its still only HALF of the experience as you can't enjoy a movie with audio. This is where HD-DVD has a clear edge. Every HD-DVD player on the market is an even better value when you consider what you are getting for the price.
1. They upconvert as well as $900-1500 stand alone SD-DVD players
2. They have 4 high performance floating point 32 bit SHARC DSP's which results in
2a. These Toshiba units also function as incredible high end CD players as they perform as well as CD players that cost $3000 or more. Don't believe me? Give it a try with it hooked upto your reciever via the analogues or the HDMI. It's one incredible audio experience.
2b. Every Toshiba HD-DVD player also has built in decoders for HD audio formats such as DD+ and DTHD which is a lossless audio format. DD+ is a huge improvement over standard DD, as it supports a maximum bitrate stream of upto 3mbps vs. the old 448kbps limitation. Universal and Paramount HD-DVD titles support DD+ at 1.5mbps and has been evaluated as critics as sounding almost lossless. DTHD is another story as this is a completely lossless audio format based off of Meridians lossless compression technology. Once you start watching movies with a lossless audio track, you cannot go back to standard DD or DTS. There are many HD-DVD movies out with a DTHD lossless track, and many more especially from Warner as every HD-DVD player has these decoders built in.
2c. As I mentioned, every HD-DVD player has 4 32 bit SHARC DSP's built in. These are programmable logic devices which means that the audio decoder support doesn't stop here. All Toshiba needs to do to add more decoders for the future is do a simple firmware update. We already know that the HD-XA2 will be getting an update sometime in the future that will add both DTS-HD and MA decoders to the mix, and rumor has it that Toshiba will extend this update to the older players as well. the DTS-HD and MA decoders are not important right now since there isn't a single US release HD-DVD movie that uses these formats.
3. Because of the audio decoders that are built into the player, you get to listen to the latest HD audio formats right NOW. Look at the BDP's on the market that retail for as much money as they do. Not a SINGLE one comes with any of the HD audio decoders. For a format that pretends to be high tech, all I can say is high tech my ASS. Because they also don't have HDMI 1.3, they will NEVER be able to listen to any of the HD audio formats in the future because you need HDMI 1.3 to stream across HD audio formats for external decoding. Just think about why its obvious how every reciever manufacturer has virtually sided with Blu-ray. They know that this format has the potential to equal another reciever sale in the future. What's worse is that all of the current BDP's on the market will be nothing more than doorstops if you EVER want to listen to the HD audio formats other than the LPCM tracks that come on some BD movies. Even then, LPCM tracks default to 2 channel stereo sound if you use an SPDIF audio connector as you have to use HDMI or analogue audio cables. Go ahead and stare at those fancy DTS-MA(another lossless format) tracks on those Fox BD movies. Oops, you can't listen to them on any BDP on the market at this time!
4. You guys also failed to mention that the only reason BD was outselling HD-DVD is because there was a roughly 2-3 month drough in HD-DVD movie releases. Now that HD-DVD movies are being released in force, look at the sales rankings at Amazon on the newly released HD-DVD movies. They are not only selling very well, but the HD-DVD versions are outselling the BD versions with the Warner titles. You guys also failed to mention that the HD-DVD-A has pledged to release 70 titles in the 1st half of this year, and 300+ releases by the end of this year. That virtually means we will be seeing many movies coming out soon. They have pledged that there will be 600+ available HD-DVD titles for purchase total by the end of this year as well. 100 of the 300+ releases this year will be exclusives from Universal alone. Just because HD-DVD didn't have anything getting released the last couple of months don't mean that its dying.
5. Look at the pricing of the HD-DVD players and how well they are selling. The HD-A2 is currently the #3 selling DVD player at Amazon, and the high end HD-XA2 is #10 selling at Amazon.
6. Unlike BD, HD-DVD also has mandates that every player must have the hardware HD audio decoders built in as explained above, but also when it comes to movie releases. The mandates are that every HD-DVD movie must at the bare minimum support HD audio formats. This means that every HD-DVd movie you see is garenteed to have at the bare minimum a DD+ or DTS-HD track. This is becoming moot as more and more HD-DVD movies are now getting released in DTHD lossless audio. Once you listen to lossless audio, you don't go back. Don't believe me? Try listening to the DTHD tracks on the HD-DVD versions of Batman Begins and Phantom of the Opera. Blu-ray on the other hand has no such mandates in place, which means that they are free to do whatever they want from an audio standpoint. With HD-DVD, you are garenteed to have HD audio on EVERY movie that is released.
1. They upconvert as well as $900-1500 stand alone SD-DVD players
2. They have 4 high performance floating point 32 bit SHARC DSP's which results in
2a. These Toshiba units also function as incredible high end CD players as they perform as well as CD players that cost $3000 or more. Don't believe me? Give it a try with it hooked upto your reciever via the analogues or the HDMI. It's one incredible audio experience.
2b. Every Toshiba HD-DVD player also has built in decoders for HD audio formats such as DD+ and DTHD which is a lossless audio format. DD+ is a huge improvement over standard DD, as it supports a maximum bitrate stream of upto 3mbps vs. the old 448kbps limitation. Universal and Paramount HD-DVD titles support DD+ at 1.5mbps and has been evaluated as critics as sounding almost lossless. DTHD is another story as this is a completely lossless audio format based off of Meridians lossless compression technology. Once you start watching movies with a lossless audio track, you cannot go back to standard DD or DTS. There are many HD-DVD movies out with a DTHD lossless track, and many more especially from Warner as every HD-DVD player has these decoders built in.
2c. As I mentioned, every HD-DVD player has 4 32 bit SHARC DSP's built in. These are programmable logic devices which means that the audio decoder support doesn't stop here. All Toshiba needs to do to add more decoders for the future is do a simple firmware update. We already know that the HD-XA2 will be getting an update sometime in the future that will add both DTS-HD and MA decoders to the mix, and rumor has it that Toshiba will extend this update to the older players as well. the DTS-HD and MA decoders are not important right now since there isn't a single US release HD-DVD movie that uses these formats.
3. Because of the audio decoders that are built into the player, you get to listen to the latest HD audio formats right NOW. Look at the BDP's on the market that retail for as much money as they do. Not a SINGLE one comes with any of the HD audio decoders. For a format that pretends to be high tech, all I can say is high tech my ASS. Because they also don't have HDMI 1.3, they will NEVER be able to listen to any of the HD audio formats in the future because you need HDMI 1.3 to stream across HD audio formats for external decoding. Just think about why its obvious how every reciever manufacturer has virtually sided with Blu-ray. They know that this format has the potential to equal another reciever sale in the future. What's worse is that all of the current BDP's on the market will be nothing more than doorstops if you EVER want to listen to the HD audio formats other than the LPCM tracks that come on some BD movies. Even then, LPCM tracks default to 2 channel stereo sound if you use an SPDIF audio connector as you have to use HDMI or analogue audio cables. Go ahead and stare at those fancy DTS-MA(another lossless format) tracks on those Fox BD movies. Oops, you can't listen to them on any BDP on the market at this time!
4. You guys also failed to mention that the only reason BD was outselling HD-DVD is because there was a roughly 2-3 month drough in HD-DVD movie releases. Now that HD-DVD movies are being released in force, look at the sales rankings at Amazon on the newly released HD-DVD movies. They are not only selling very well, but the HD-DVD versions are outselling the BD versions with the Warner titles. You guys also failed to mention that the HD-DVD-A has pledged to release 70 titles in the 1st half of this year, and 300+ releases by the end of this year. That virtually means we will be seeing many movies coming out soon. They have pledged that there will be 600+ available HD-DVD titles for purchase total by the end of this year as well. 100 of the 300+ releases this year will be exclusives from Universal alone. Just because HD-DVD didn't have anything getting released the last couple of months don't mean that its dying.
5. Look at the pricing of the HD-DVD players and how well they are selling. The HD-A2 is currently the #3 selling DVD player at Amazon, and the high end HD-XA2 is #10 selling at Amazon.
6. Unlike BD, HD-DVD also has mandates that every player must have the hardware HD audio decoders built in as explained above, but also when it comes to movie releases. The mandates are that every HD-DVD movie must at the bare minimum support HD audio formats. This means that every HD-DVd movie you see is garenteed to have at the bare minimum a DD+ or DTS-HD track. This is becoming moot as more and more HD-DVD movies are now getting released in DTHD lossless audio. Once you listen to lossless audio, you don't go back. Don't believe me? Try listening to the DTHD tracks on the HD-DVD versions of Batman Begins and Phantom of the Opera. Blu-ray on the other hand has no such mandates in place, which means that they are free to do whatever they want from an audio standpoint. With HD-DVD, you are garenteed to have HD audio on EVERY movie that is released.
swatbat
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2001
- Messages
- 13,056
This is true.
One thing I didn't see mentioned are the combo disks. You all talked about the players but the dual format disk are something to look at too.
I've noticed that a lot of HD Dvds are combo disks where they also will play on a normal dvd player. Given the choice of blue ray or hd I would go with hd for a movie if it was one of these disks. The ability to have the hd version for your big screen and have the sd version to take to your parents or to watch in the bedroom is a really nice feature. It is one I wish the blueray disks would support. I know companies were working on dual or tripple format disks that would do it. To me that choice would really help me make the switch. Hell I watch movies on my notebook between class from time to time. Think I will buy a dvd and a hd/br copy? Hell no. I will stick with the dvd that I can play all over my house and away from it.
Also to add to this, another factor not taken into account is how Sony stuffed BD movie coupons into the PS3's. Toshiba however chooses to give you 5 movies instead of coupons which means that these 5 free movies are not recorded as sales from retailers. There is a lot of deception in these sales numbers that we see floating around.
Adidas4275
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,986
blue-ray will be like Betamax... mini-DVDs mini-cd mp4 players and all other sony crap They do the R and D and then another (cheaper) format will come out that offers the same, or close to, benifits and people will buy it over sonys... ie VHS and flash based/HDD based mp3 players....
sony generally gets the people who have more $$ than time and becasue they generally come out with new tech first and are a leader in the tech industry the Rich guy buys Sony.. the rest of use buy the other brand....
generally speaking of coarse..
sony generally gets the people who have more $$ than time and becasue they generally come out with new tech first and are a leader in the tech industry the Rich guy buys Sony.. the rest of use buy the other brand....
generally speaking of coarse..
Wow very good points, I'm really big into audio.
Questions:
If I bought the new Toshiba HD-A2 what type of receiver would I need to enjoy these new audio formats?
Would my current Yamaha RX-V2200 work (It has no HDMI inputs).
Could you recommend what else I would need besides the HD-A2?
I have a xbox360, would the the hd-dvd add-on work?