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What happened?
- Thread starter [OCAU]EvilGenius
- Start date
Parja
[H]F Junkie
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I would say that those things lead to this *not* being bad.
Welp, now I know what that old expression "being undaunted by minor setbacks" means (or something like that) 
So after the "grining and bearing it", remembering that "payback is a mofro" and remembering the project did get helped from the WU's that were unauthorized or whatever, all we can do, except yell loudly and curse, is to buck up and fold like mad rabbits. (the [H]orde ain't numero uno for nothin')
You know that old expression "you play, you pay" (or something like that) It's rare when some imbicles actions doesn't effect the innocents (we ain't exactly innocent, but we sure got f*cked)
I feel the urge for a 9600GSO, "with double slot" coolin', comin' on (thanks HighYield)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130356
Yeah. I know it ain't a GT, but it fits in with my "el cheapo" addiction
@ nomad8u, you gots to give them chickens a break or pretty soon they'll be on the endangered species list. What are you tryin' to do make Colonial Sanders go more bananas then he probably is? (Kentucky Fried Chicken)
FOLD ON!
So after the "grining and bearing it", remembering that "payback is a mofro" and remembering the project did get helped from the WU's that were unauthorized or whatever, all we can do, except yell loudly and curse, is to buck up and fold like mad rabbits. (the [H]orde ain't numero uno for nothin')
You know that old expression "you play, you pay" (or something like that) It's rare when some imbicles actions doesn't effect the innocents (we ain't exactly innocent, but we sure got f*cked)
I feel the urge for a 9600GSO, "with double slot" coolin', comin' on (thanks HighYield) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130356
Yeah. I know it ain't a GT, but it fits in with my "el cheapo" addiction
@ nomad8u, you gots to give them chickens a break or pretty soon they'll be on the endangered species list. What are you tryin' to do make Colonial Sanders go more bananas then he probably is? (Kentucky Fried Chicken)
FOLD ON!
Trivolve?
Party2go9820?
I read the links... I read the posts...
what happened?
Trivolve is not on our team.
The Trivolve incident is a different and unrelated event. When they were talking about that, some of us initially speculated that they were referring to Party2go. However, whatever happened with Party2go is indeed something else and undisclosed at this time.
I think that's everything.
Party2go9820
2[H]4U
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Ok, as promised. Here is what I feel comfortable saying in public:
1) This is not a case of a virus/package being deployed to unsuspecting computer users. I would think my long history and slow gain in the ranks would be proof of this.
2) In my opinion, this is a gray area involving a possible EULA violation. I don't feel like I violated it, but others (not necessarily at Stanford) believe I did.
3) I don't care about the personal points. I'm more concerned with my reputation, the reputation of the [H] and most importantly the Folding@Home Project. I don't want to do anything that would give bad press to any of these organizations as they are dependent upon their members to act with honor and principles.
4) I'm reluctant to say more as I fear a possible lawsuit. Not from Stanford, but other parties I was involved with in the past. IMO this is unlikely, but I can't risk the financial security of me and my family on it.
1) This is not a case of a virus/package being deployed to unsuspecting computer users. I would think my long history and slow gain in the ranks would be proof of this.
2) In my opinion, this is a gray area involving a possible EULA violation. I don't feel like I violated it, but others (not necessarily at Stanford) believe I did.
3) I don't care about the personal points. I'm more concerned with my reputation, the reputation of the [H] and most importantly the Folding@Home Project. I don't want to do anything that would give bad press to any of these organizations as they are dependent upon their members to act with honor and principles.
4) I'm reluctant to say more as I fear a possible lawsuit. Not from Stanford, but other parties I was involved with in the past. IMO this is unlikely, but I can't risk the financial security of me and my family on it.
Good enough explaination for me.
Sorry for your troubles. Thanks for you concern for the reputations involved.
Yup. Time to move on.
For everyone, this is a great example of why math is evil. Tomorrow we'll be back to 2.4 to 2.5 mill output, and our 24h average will be back up to normal in 7 to 10 days. We need to focus on getting our PPD back up above OCAU (they've out produced us today for some reason, 1,811,363 vs 1,884,336 so far).
Also, if anyone was curious, this is what it looks like when 3/4 of the [H] "goes away".
For everyone, this is a great example of why math is evil. Tomorrow we'll be back to 2.4 to 2.5 mill output, and our 24h average will be back up to normal in 7 to 10 days. We need to focus on getting our PPD back up above OCAU (they've out produced us today for some reason, 1,811,363 vs 1,884,336 so far).
Also, if anyone was curious, this is what it looks like when 3/4 of the [H] "goes away".
lelliott731
[H]ard DCOTM April 2017
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Thanks for the info Party2go9820. Will be prayin for you & your family that things don't get to the lawsuit level.
Also, mad props for worrying most about the reputation of the team & the project as well as your own. That shows true dedication to the project & the [H]orde!
Good Luck!
Also, mad props for worrying most about the reputation of the team & the project as well as your own. That shows true dedication to the project & the [H]orde!
Good Luck!
I have to admire the maturity you have displayed in not blaming everybody and their brother and the mature way you were concerned about any form of bad feelings affecting either the [H]orde folding team or providing any amunition to the critics of the Folding At Home program and/or Stanford University.
I completely understand how you would be careful concerning any later legal troubles that would effect youself or your family. As you said, and it's a relief to hear, that it's not likely, but it never hurts to take precautions.
With all that said, just think of the people you have helped in the F@H program. Your points can be taken, but not the the WU's that made up the 12 million points. Believe me, I'm not making "light" of you loosing 12 million points. If I was to loose the few million points I have I hope I'd be able to react the way you have. Good Luck
FOLD ON!
I completely understand how you would be careful concerning any later legal troubles that would effect youself or your family. As you said, and it's a relief to hear, that it's not likely, but it never hurts to take precautions.
With all that said, just think of the people you have helped in the F@H program. Your points can be taken, but not the the WU's that made up the 12 million points. Believe me, I'm not making "light" of you loosing 12 million points. If I was to loose the few million points I have I hope I'd be able to react the way you have. Good Luck
FOLD ON!
FWIW thanks for stepping up with some information. IMO it's probably only a minor speedbump for the project (I certainly doubt they dumped your work completed). It definitely hurts this team and any others you were folding with but we and the rest will get past it. I'm sure it hurt you in ways we don't know but hopefully you'll get past it as well. thanks for sharing what you felt comfortable to share. that's part of being a "team member" and IMO speaks well of you regardless of the circumstances. Good luck to you!
forkus said:
Now THIS is an embarrsing situation that was obviously mojo induced that will be hard for relic to handle...
I think this could be argued against enforcement in any competent folding court anywhere...
jws2346 said:
Relax jw.... I like chicken as much as the next guy. Especially with a little garlic and pepper. But demanding situations such as this deserve sacrifice to the folding gods. It's simple voodoo economics and far be it from me to tempt the wraith of the folding gods...
Trust me... the Colonel understands.
Tigerbiten
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2007/January 2
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Soory to hear your troubles Party2go9820.
Hopefully if this gets resolved in your favour, We'll see a big spike in the other direction.
Luck ..........
Hopefully if this gets resolved in your favour, We'll see a big spike in the other direction.
Luck ..........
I guess my only concern is this situation something that anyone else might be doing? I mean I know technically were not supposed to run multiple SMPs... etc.. If it is something more common I'd be pissed!
As long as its not something that a lot of us might be subject to...
As long as its not something that a lot of us might be subject to...
Xilikon
[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2008
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Well said, I talked with Party2go9820 and it's not as black and white as it seems. It's up to him and Vijay to see what can be done. For now, let's just fold on harder to regain the lost points.
I guess my only concern is this situation something that anyone else might be doing? I mean I know technically were not supposed to run multiple SMPs... etc.. If it is something more common I'd be pissed!
As long as its not something that a lot of us might be subject to...
No, nothing to do with the improper way of running the clients. See my reply to ICE_9 above.
As mentionned above, I did what I could do by discussing with Vijay, notify Party2go9820, discussed a bit with him and put him in contact with Vijay. We'll see if that can make a positive outcome but the main thing is that we have no reason to blame anyone, especially when Party2go9820 folded with us for as long as any old member like relic, Majic and others. Remember that he didn't actively look to improve the output a lot so his ppd remained pretty low, which indicate no real "criminal" intent. It's up to Vijay to decide if he have a good case or not. And to clarify what Party2go9820 said by "no necessarily Stanford", let's say that it's not Stanford who found the problem, they received a complaint and zeroed the points since they found it to be very serious. It can still be reversed after review of both sides.
Wheresatom
[H]ard|Gawd
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Hey Party2go are you planning on staying with folding and starting over at zero?
I have a couple discussions in regards to what has happened with the stats only and I have done some reassuring that I don't see any way you have done anything which would hurt your reputation. I admit I don't know you except for what I've seen you post on the forums and your long history and production for F@H and this team. In my book that is more than enough proof that you haven't tried to do anything wrong and I passed that along to others.
As for EULA crap, I have no clue and to me it's basically all a gray area anyway.
I care about you losing your personal points if you haven't done anything wrong. You've done a hell of a lot of work for the project and this team and it pisses me off that you lose the recognition for the good work you've done.
There is definitely no need for you to say anymore here. It's none of our business and doesn't personally affect us in any way. Get your stuff straightened out as you see the need. I would personally love to search out and kick the ass of anyone here that demands any more information on this subject because the only effect it would have on any of us is some points which really don't mean a damn thing.
I'm glad to hear there is a chance to clean this up and hopefully resolve it in a way that benefits all of us here, especially Party2go.
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im pretty sure we are fucked then
Xilikon
[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2008
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In light of this event, I discussed with my boss and he told me that even if he gave formal permission in writing, this doesn't always mean that someone somewhere else agree. We are in a big corporation with over 5000 employees and a IT team in the 3 digits so it's bound to have someone somewhere who will bitch about that.
He suggested that I must limit folding to my own work computer, computers connected to a separate internet connection (we have a ADSL modem and router for laptop connectivity testing which is totally separate from the corporate network) and computers on the bench (for pre-deployment burning and troubleshooting in case people complaint about freezes). For this reason, I will go pull some computers which is in the classroom and a few coworkers borgs (which is not what I control 100%). To compensate the loss of about 4000 ppd, I just ordered a 8800GS that I found for 91.99$. I also wrote down on paper with my boss and the department top boss a protocol in case there is a complaint which allow me to pull the clients if asked without any other implication. As long as everyone is fine, it's ok. I even explained what happened to Party2go9820 and he told me it can happen if the management got remplaced and the new boss is hostile to this type of use so I'm better to be safe than sorry.
When I started to sit in the PPD top 10, 90% is from work computers. Now, it only account for only 20% and after the changes, it will be only 10% with 90% totally owned by me at home.
He suggested that I must limit folding to my own work computer, computers connected to a separate internet connection (we have a ADSL modem and router for laptop connectivity testing which is totally separate from the corporate network) and computers on the bench (for pre-deployment burning and troubleshooting in case people complaint about freezes). For this reason, I will go pull some computers which is in the classroom and a few coworkers borgs (which is not what I control 100%). To compensate the loss of about 4000 ppd, I just ordered a 8800GS that I found for 91.99$. I also wrote down on paper with my boss and the department top boss a protocol in case there is a complaint which allow me to pull the clients if asked without any other implication. As long as everyone is fine, it's ok. I even explained what happened to Party2go9820 and he told me it can happen if the management got remplaced and the new boss is hostile to this type of use so I'm better to be safe than sorry.
When I started to sit in the PPD top 10, 90% is from work computers. Now, it only account for only 20% and after the changes, it will be only 10% with 90% totally owned by me at home.
In light of this event, I discussed with my boss and he told me that even if he gave formal permission in writing, this doesn't always mean that someone somewhere else agree. We are in a big corporation with over 5000 employees and a IT team in the 3 digits so it's bound to have someone somewhere who will bitch about that.
He suggested that I must limit folding to my own work computer, computers connected to a separate internet connection (we have a ADSL modem and router for laptop connectivity testing which is totally separate from the corporate network) and computers on the bench (for pre-deployment burning and troubleshooting in case people complaint about freezes). For this reason, I will go pull some computers which is in the classroom and a few coworkers borgs (which is not what I control 100%). To compensate the loss of about 4000 ppd, I just ordered a 8800GS that I found for 91.99$. I also wrote down on paper with my boss and the department top boss a protocol in case there is a complaint which allow me to pull the clients if asked without any other implication. As long as everyone is fine, it's ok. I even explained what happened to Party2go9820 and he told me it can happen if the management got remplaced and the new boss is hostile to this type of use so I'm better to be safe than sorry.
When I started to sit in the PPD top 10, 90% is from work computers. Now, it only account for only 20% and after the changes, it will be only 10% with 90% totally owned by me at home.
This is exactly why I think flushing the points from the team is such absolute horseshit. So you've amassed almost 10 Million points for the project, 90% of which came from work computers. So a year from now some corporate wonk gets a case of the ass after finding out F@H is running on work PCs and now another 9 Million points are at risk of getting flushed from both you and the team. Lovely.
I think Stanford has set a very dangerous precedent here by doing this. I can sort of see why they needed to do this to "protect" the integrity of the project, but THEY didn't lose anything. I'm sure they didn't and wouldn't track down all the offending WU and invalidate them.It looks to me like the users bear the entire burden and risk. If it were me, I'd no longer be folding on any corporate computers.
Just my .02
Wow somehow in the end it just doesn't seem worth it to borg work computers even if you have permission. I think if you do have permission you should save evidence of that approval. Be it an email or whatever so if you ever find yourself in that situation you have proof it was authorized!
Xilikon
[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2008
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Wow somehow in the end it just doesn't seem worth it to borg work computers even if you have permission. I think if you do have permission you should save evidence of that approval. Be it an email or whatever so if you ever find yourself in that situation you have proof it was authorized!
Yes, the only valid permission is from the owner or CEO. The bigger the company, the harder it is to get a valid permission so it's not always worth borging them if you always risk your seat for it.
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Wow somehow in the end it just doesn't seem worth it to borg work computers even if you have permission. I think if you do have permission you should save evidence of that approval. Be it an email or whatever so if you ever find yourself in that situation you have proof it was authorized!
another reason why its not worth running this project anymore unless you are rich and can crap out tons of nvidia gpu's...
I've got a couple of real dumba$$ questions. It seems the way it is now, even if you have permission to borg your companies boxen, you plus your team could be held responsible and have your points zeroed. In the advent (in the ever changing world of some businesses you missed it) there is a chance of the person that is the permission giver at the time to not be the permission giver at the present. ? Is there any "time limit" like for most crimes in the US that this problem of "no permission" can be brought up?
It seems you and your team could be held responsible forever and what happens if permission giver, God forbid, has a "heart attack" or get killed in an automobile accident ? That still puts you in the "my word against them" situation. (hell, if the permission giver is "croaked" how do you verify his or her sig)
I'm not trying to complicate matters anymore than they already are, but I was just bringing up a scenario that is very realistic.
Not knowing any of the above I have to agree with our "grand master" borger FLECOM and nomad8u that borging company boxen can be a complete PITA and in the "long run"may not even be worth it. If it's true that this "no permission or whatever thing" can go on indefinitely I think it'll be a major stumbling block for the F@H project and other DC projects
Once again my overly inflated $0.02 cents of US currency (honestly, sometimes I wish I was living in a stable economy like Canada's)
FOLD ON!
Is there any "time limit" like for most crimes in the US that this problem of "no permission" can be brought up? It seems you and your team could be held responsible forever and what happens if permission giver, God forbid, has a "heart attack" or get killed in an automobile accident ? That still puts you in the "my word against them" situation. (hell, if the permission giver is "croaked" how do you verify his or her sig
)I'm not trying to complicate matters anymore than they already are, but I was just bringing up a scenario that is very realistic.
Not knowing any of the above I have to agree with our "grand master" borger FLECOM and nomad8u that borging company boxen can be a complete PITA and in the "long run"may not even be worth it. If it's true that this "no permission or whatever thing" can go on indefinitely I think it'll be a major stumbling block for the F@H project and other DC projects
Once again my overly inflated $0.02 cents of US currency (honestly, sometimes I wish I was living in a stable economy like Canada's)
FOLD ON!
Well, if you are folding just for the points, I can understand your beef. If/when a cure is found as a direct result from our WUs, it will make the points seem like a small thing.
What's this folding for the points garbage, if the WU's you are getting keep on EUE'ing (like about 4x times in a row) there is no scientific result. Oh yeah, the only "beef" I know is on cows
Xilikon
[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2008
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Putting the permission on writing go a long way in protecting your ass even if it become unwanted. This will show them that you initially have one so it won't get your points zeroed out. However, this won't protect you when it come to your own job security
As for the team points, unless there is a blatant lack of action against illegal borging, points should be very safe minus the points loss due to that user.
Soon, I will try to poke Vijay about the whole process, especially the part that the security team is comprised of PG members and members from the community. Who is those community members ? What about leaders of the 5 biggest teams ? Is there some way to check if the process is legit or just bogus ? On what criterias a complaint is judged ? Is there such thing as a warning or different gradation of punishment ? What about the grey area issues ?
As for the team points, unless there is a blatant lack of action against illegal borging, points should be very safe minus the points loss due to that user.
Soon, I will try to poke Vijay about the whole process, especially the part that the security team is comprised of PG members and members from the community. Who is those community members ? What about leaders of the 5 biggest teams ? Is there some way to check if the process is legit or just bogus ? On what criterias a complaint is judged ? Is there such thing as a warning or different gradation of punishment ? What about the grey area issues ?
What's this folding for the points garbage, if the WU's you are getting keep on EUE'ing (like about 4x times in a row) there is no scientific result. Oh yeah, the only "beef" I know is on cows
Edit: I just reread your previous post and it sounded like you were knocking FLECOM and the "heavy duty" folders that utilize company borgs. The way I read it you were knocking me.
If you take what FLECOM posted out of context I guess you could apply the old, tired mantra of "I'm only doing it for the points" deal. (if I've read it once, I've read it a thousand times)
I think you have to realize you are dealing with semi intelligent mature adults here and we are all aware of the great efforts that Stanford, us folders and many medical professionals are making toward finding a cure for some pretty f*uked up diseases. The point structure adds, for most intelligent adults, a competitive and enjoyment aspect to folding. (I think most realize it's the science that comes first )Personally I think people like FLECOM and the other "heavy duty" folders on this team are giving this team and the project of F@H HUGE benefits. He was probably just venting his disappointment in the zeroing of points. I myself, while I don't have the fortune of having boxen to borg, would also like a little clarification on how this is done and the exact process in taking someones 10 or 12 million points.
Putting the permission on writing go a long way in protecting your ass even if it become unwanted. This will show them that you initially have one so it won't get your points zeroed out. However, this won't protect you when it come to your own job security
As for the team points, unless there is a blatant lack of action against illegal borging, points should be very safe minus the points loss due to that user.
Soon, I will try to poke Vijay about the whole process, especially the part that the security team is comprised of PG members and members from the community. Who is those community members ? What about leaders of the 5 biggest teams ? Is there some way to check if the process is legit or just bogus ? On what criterias a complaint is judged ? Is there such thing as a warning or different gradation of punishment ? What about the grey area issues ?
I gotta' admit I'm kinda' slow "one finger typing" so I just got the chance to read your post SmokeRngs. Like many people on this great team I'd like to thank you (SmokeRngs) for your sometimes hopeless, but not always, valiant attempts at trying to unf*uck some of the calamities that hit us here at the [H]orde plus you're ability to interface with Vjay and Stanford. Thanks again SmokeRngs and I apologise if I got a little "outa' pocket" in some of my previous posts.
FOLD ON!