What is "boomy" bass?

S

Shadow27

Gawd
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
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646
Hey
Could someone explain to me what "boomy" bass is? I keep hearing about it in threads and i can't seem to picture it. I don't have a sound system hooked up at the moment to my pc, only headphones. I'm in the market for a 5.1 system and when i asked about the logitech z-5300e some people said the bass is a little "boomy".

Thanks
Shadow27
 
boomy bass = any pc "multimedia" speaker set. e.g. logitech, creative, some klipsch. basically the subwoofer sounds flabby and generally bad.
 
Ok, so what makes it bad? Like is it not "punchy" and too much air?

Shadow27
 
It could be the source that you are listening ti it or the subwoofer is limited in its power and the distortion will occur, or the audio card itself, there many thing can be considered for low-end systems. :cool:
 
Shadow27 said:
Ok, so what makes it bad? Like is it not "punchy" and too much air?
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Actually, "boomy" in terms of bass quality means that the bass is distorted, muddy and "one-noted." And if you don't know what "one-noted" means, it means that all or most of the bass notes out of that bass-producing device sounds the same or nearly the same as each other.
 
So the sub isn't musical? Oh ok, so its basically like most car subs i hear going around :p . Yeh, so is the sub for the z-5300e very "boomy"? It seems like a really good buy for the price.

Thanks
Shadow27
 
car subs is a huge rant of mine...nobody, even teh manufacturers it seems, knows what bass sounds like. I managed to get a Kicker Comp VR 8" to put out some deliciously tight bass, but it involved a sealed box about 60% of the reccomended size and some serious power input...both together adds tremendous thermal wear and tear on a woofer :(

...on the other hand the bass was so tight that you swore you were listening to a good home theater sub.

Bottom line is, a good part of car audio people have no idea what good bass is, and the stuff that delivers is way way overpriced.


Boomy = that crappy one tone bass, sounds like a fart in a tube, that's it.
 
yeah, boomy bass sucks and compared to a punchy bass it sounds like it's constrained in the low frequencies. to me, it doesn't really sound distored. it sounds flat, boring, and like it's compromised of only a few very low frequencies.
i'll admit that the sub in my klipsch promedias (v2-400) demonstrates this but it's not that bad as i've heard elsewhere.
 
mustang_steve said:
car subs is a huge rant of mine...nobody, even teh manufacturers it seems, knows what bass sounds like. I managed to get a Kicker Comp VR 8" to put out some deliciously tight bass, but it involved a sealed box about 60% of the reccomended size and some serious power input...both together adds tremendous thermal wear and tear on a woofer :(

...on the other hand the bass was so tight that you swore you were listening to a good home theater sub.

Bottom line is, a good part of car audio people have no idea what good bass is, and the stuff that delivers is way way overpriced.


Boomy = that crappy one tone bass, sounds like a fart in a tube, that's it.
Click to expand...
And the way to get that crappy one-tone fart-cannon bass out of a subwoofer driver is to use a box that's much too small for its characteristics and/or use a ported box whose port is tuned at too high of a frequency. And surprisingly, cheaper subwoofer drivers require a much larger box than most of the more expensive subwoofer drivers of the same size do for optimal accuracy.
 
RE XXX or Brahma's are what I am hoping to get. Others are JL w7's, Alpine Type R's, L7's etc. These are all somewhat pricey but you can get much cheaper subs that sound good.
 
Good car subs are Rockford Fosgate Punch Powers, Kickers, Image Dynamics (they rock). Crappy subs include Pioneer, Crunch, Kenwood, much of the JL line (although they have some real good ones), Pyramid, Boston Acoustics, Clarion, etc.

Boomy bass is when the amplifier runs out of power by being overdriven out of spec, squares off the top of the sine wave signal and loses control of the sub to the point where the cone overextends it's throw, either tearing the surround or bottoming the speaker out in extreme cases. Instead of providing the sub with a clean signal so that it can throw a precise distance, move a controlled amount of air and reproduce precise frequencies, it "flops around" in it's cage and travels uncontrollably to either end of it's throw. It reproduces erratic frequencies that in the end result in a "whomp whomp whomp" sound.

These idiots that drive down the street going "whomp whomp whomp" don't realize just how stupid they look. They are stressing their amplifiers for one. Overworking the amplifier by starving it for power or driving it beyond it's capabilities results in heat which damages internal components. The amplification ICs (or tubes, if they have money, but then again those that can afford this gear don't generally act like idiots with their equipment) reproduce a square, as opposed to rounded, sine wave as a result of continually pushing the average power beyond the ratings of the amplifier. The square sine gets fed to the speaker coil which over extends the cone. At the same time, the clipped signal is scorching the coil and the adhesive (fortunately the airflow around the coil and thermal inertia slow this down), resulting in greatly reduced life of the speaker. Also, when the speaker "bottoms out" it sends a feedback signal to the amp, as the coil is producing a dead short (an active speaker never has a static impedance. The further it extends, the higher the impedance. The further it pulls inwards the closer it gets to a dead short. The given impedance of a speaker is the nominal impedance). This destroys amplifiers for obvious reasons, popping fuses or outright blowing the amplifier circuit.

When I hear them coming, I don't admire. I laugh at them. I have been there, done that. I owned an Alpine head unit with Image Dynamics components on the floor in kick panels, 2 Rockford Fosgate Punch 40i's bridged mono to drive them, a Punch 250m2 Power bridged mono to drive a 15" Punch Power sub in a ported box, an Audio Control crossover, two 1 Farad caps, 4 ga power wire, 8 ga speaker wire and a 1000CCA battery with a rather small 125A alternator (biggest I could find). I burned up amplifiers. I went through speakers like most people go through underwear. I have welded them to the basket. I have had one catch fire on me. I even blew the Punch Power sub, which Rockford Fosgate deemed unblowable. They gave me a free one because they couldn't believe anyone actually pulled it off.

Truly I was one of those idiots.

One way to get around speakers that lose control, apart from being sensible with the gains, is to have a computer designed box made or a sealed box. Tightly built ported boxes result in tight bass with plenty of tone. Tight sealed enclosures reproduce very punchy bass at the expense of some tone at the lower end of the frequency response curve.
 
logitech subs, car subs.... :)

i htink the klipsch ultra sub is pretty good - it compares with a lot of lower end HT subs (daytons, smaller jbls, polks, that kinda thing...)
 
stunna said:
what are some good car bass drivers / subwoofers?
Click to expand...

JLW 3's and 6's, Kicker L7's and if you have the money www.ddaudio.com

These subs are limited, and you wont see them around alot outside of Competitions but 2 of these 17" drivers getting 1,500 watts each will make you feel like armaggedon has arrived. They are ridiculously loud. They kill all others (my opinion) but are suited for comps mostly.

Go ahead get one. Feel bass that can damage your inner ear with one shot! You know you wanna! :D
 
Also the boomyness is caused by a gain in the 45 hz region. Usually can be toned down some with a eq.
 
cheap manufacturers tend to cater to the cheap buyers. they're uninformed and wouldn't know what their CD's actually sound like if they swam up and bit them in the ass. it's amazing that people think that distorted sound from systems like the ones being ranted about is "sooo great!" bla bla bla. uninformed listeners.
 
I have to say I don't care much for the RF Punch line, I don't know about the stage 3 but the others are pretty much lower end IMO (closer to what I'm using now lol). The Power series is a dif. story though but there is a huge price difference to explain that. But when you can get 2 12's for $100 or 2 15's for $180 (my nearest Ultimate Elec.) you shouldn't be expecting the greatest.
 
Thanks for clearing that up everybody. Yeh I understand now, plus i got first hand experience the other day of what a boomy sub sounds like. It sounded like it was actually woofing. It seemed like it didn't know what frequency it should be reproducing if that makes sense :confused:

Anyway thanks :)
Shadow27
 
i'm pretty sure non-audiophiles like myself wouldn't notice the difference between boomy and high end..

btw i love my 5300e's sub, considering its the first sub that i've ever had. i hardly listen to music, or use my speaker set at all
 
Yeh, i've had the opportunity to listen the the 5300e and they sounded really good to me. They didn't sound muddy to me at all, but i'm far from an audiophile as well. The music didn't sound good when played over all the speakers at once, but when in stereo mode it sounded very nice. The sub sounded much more punchier in stereo. I'm seriously considering this set, but i can get the z-680 for a little bit more. I did some checking for studio speakers and an amp but they're hellishly expensive here (Australia). I don't trust ebay because i've been burnt a couple times using it.

Shadow27
 
I didnt think my base was boomy on my klipsch 4.1s, but this HTD 12" level 3 is definitely better sounding than any sub I've heard before. It makes the klipsch sound like a trumpet fart in a drain pipe.:D
 
joethemole said:
i'm pretty sure non-audiophiles like myself wouldn't notice the difference between boomy and high end..

btw i love my 5300e's sub, considering its the first sub that i've ever had. i hardly listen to music, or use my speaker set at all
Click to expand...

Most people would notice the difference. Whether they would care, especially after you factor in the price, is a different matter.
 
SirKenin said:
Good car subs are Rockford Fosgate Punch Powers, Kickers, Image Dynamics (they rock). Crappy subs include Pioneer, Crunch, Kenwood, much of the JL line (although they have some real good ones), Pyramid, Boston Acoustics, Clarion, etc.

Boomy bass is when the amplifier runs out of power by being overdriven out of spec, squares off the top of the sine wave signal and loses control of the sub to the point where the cone overextends it's throw, either tearing the surround or bottoming the speaker out in extreme cases. Instead of providing the sub with a clean signal so that it can throw a precise distance, move a controlled amount of air and reproduce precise frequencies, it "flops around" in it's cage and travels uncontrollably to either end of it's throw. It reproduces erratic frequencies that in the end result in a "whomp whomp whomp" sound.

These idiots that drive down the street going "whomp whomp whomp" don't realize just how stupid they look. They are stressing their amplifiers for one. Overworking the amplifier by starving it for power or driving it beyond it's capabilities results in heat which damages internal components. The amplification ICs (or tubes, if they have money, but then again those that can afford this gear don't generally act like idiots with their equipment) reproduce a square, as opposed to rounded, sine wave as a result of continually pushing the average power beyond the ratings of the amplifier. The square sine gets fed to the speaker coil which over extends the cone. At the same time, the clipped signal is scorching the coil and the adhesive (fortunately the airflow around the coil and thermal inertia slow this down), resulting in greatly reduced life of the speaker. Also, when the speaker "bottoms out" it sends a feedback signal to the amp, as the coil is producing a dead short (an active speaker never has a static impedance. The further it extends, the higher the impedance. The further it pulls inwards the closer it gets to a dead short. The given impedance of a speaker is the nominal impedance). This destroys amplifiers for obvious reasons, popping fuses or outright blowing the amplifier circuit.

When I hear them coming, I don't admire. I laugh at them. I have been there, done that. I owned an Alpine head unit with Image Dynamics components on the floor in kick panels, 2 Rockford Fosgate Punch 40i's bridged mono to drive them, a Punch 250m2 Power bridged mono to drive a 15" Punch Power sub in a ported box, an Audio Control crossover, two 1 Farad caps, 4 ga power wire, 8 ga speaker wire and a 1000CCA battery with a rather small 125A alternator (biggest I could find). I burned up amplifiers. I went through speakers like most people go through underwear. I have welded them to the basket. I have had one catch fire on me. I even blew the Punch Power sub, which Rockford Fosgate deemed unblowable. They gave me a free one because they couldn't believe anyone actually pulled it off.

Truly I was one of those idiots.

One way to get around speakers that lose control, apart from being sensible with the gains, is to have a computer designed box made or a sealed box. Tightly built ported boxes result in tight bass with plenty of tone. Tight sealed enclosures reproduce very punchy bass at the expense of some tone at the lower end of the frequency response curve.
Click to expand...

actualy what you are describing is clipping a differant matter all together. it still is a problem however what boomy bass is is a sound charecteristic, as in etchy harsh nasel etc... boomy bass is caused by badly designed components and implimentation and interaction between the seperate components. as in the driver does not suit the box it was put in or the amp does not put enough power to it to move it fast enough. this means that car audio and computer audio manufactures can get away with crappy sounding bass as long as the ports are tuned to 45hz the speaker has a bass hump in the 45hz range and the amp has optimal impedance etc... at 45hz.
 
BO(V)BZ said:
Most people would notice the difference. Whether they would care, especially after you factor in the price, is a different matter.
Click to expand...

Exactly.... although there are also the people that think boomy = good bass. Those guys that go "WHOAAA THAT'S AWESOME!" at anything that makes things shake. I've allowed some relatives to listen to music on my setup only to witness them turn up the gain on my sub when I had it calibrated perfectly already because, and I quote, "You need more bass" :rolleyes:
 
I've had people do that too, I had to bitchslap my mother's boyfriend for messing with the delay settings on my receiver....those effing things took me hours to set up right.

Needless to say, his remote control priveledges are pretty slim here....he gets the remote from the stereo receiver in the other room, since it has no menu button to allow his tweak-happy butt to mess anyhting up.

....doesn't stop him from trying to alter speaker placement, or touch my sub though....but it's one swift kick in the butt to throw him out the door since my sub is right in front of it :)
 
I am very fussy with my home audio. I spent thousands of dollars to achieve one particular sound using Rotel components, $750 speaker cables, $250 patch cords, Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v2 speakers and a Yamaha YST-SW150 sub. One of the key characteristics of the system is a tightly controlled bass with a punch. You go into some people's houses (especially if they have a Pioneer, Techniques or Sony system, something like that) and all you hear is whomp whomp whomp. It's disturbing and uncomfortable to listen to for any more than a couple of minutes. That's how you can tell the amps are running out of power. Mine you can sit and listen to for hours.

The reasons stereo tend to run out of power so much is that they are not designed to provide a lot of reserve power in the event of a serious demand on the amplifier beyond what it is capable of doing. Reserve power is rated in dB and most of these cheap crappy amplifiers like Pioneer, Techniques, Sony, etc don't have it. They are severely limited by crappy transformer and capacitor design. When they give you the ratings of the amplifier, it is measured in Peak Distortion Power and not true RMS, such as the like of Rotel and other British products.

One other thing that is important is to have high current. Pioneer and all those other scrap piles are high wattage, low current. They have nothing left to offer when a significant draw occurs, such as a pounding bass note. They run out of power and what happens? Boomy bass and other anomalies.

The Rotels, on the other hand are high power, high current. Mine offer 180W each bridged mono, with 30A of current and several dB of reserve power. They maintain tight control over the speakers and make for a pleasurable experience. When other people listen, though, they wonder where the bass is. I like mine tight.. hahaha.. That almost sounds bad. :p


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Pulsar said:
Exactly.... although there are also the people that think boomy = good bass. Those guys that go "WHOAAA THAT'S AWESOME!" at anything that makes things shake. I've allowed some relatives to listen to music on my setup only to witness them turn up the gain on my sub when I had it calibrated perfectly already because, and I quote, "You need more bass" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yea, although you might have a system that is +-1dB from 10-50000 hz, there are plenty of people that wouldn't like it at all. Bass is certainly the easiest characteristic on an FR respsonse to notice, and with so many people used to subs that belt out the bottom few octaves 20dB higher, it's only natural that they would think that a properly calibrated system would sound a little anemic.
 
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