What kind of buildup is it?

M

mintos

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
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I just re-did my WC system with clear PVC tubing (before I had blue tubing) and I noticed that after 3 days of using the system the inside of my tubing turned white-grayish. It's kind of like condensation on the inside of my widow when it's cold outside. I took part of the tube and squeezed it with my fingers and the tube turned clear. Please tell me what this coloring is about and if it's normal. I'm hoping it's just internal condensation. Thanks.

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how old is the water in the loop and what additive did you use? I also assume it was with distilled water.
 
water is only 1 week old now and I used distilled water + 10% alchohol
 
lol @ internal condensation

Its probably stuff growing in there and sticking to your tubes. 10% alcohol is probably not enough to prevent growth.
 
mintos said:
water is only 1 week old now and I used distilled water + 10% alchohol
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FLUSH your LOOP IMMEDIATELY.

ALCOHOL WILL DISSOLVE plastics, turn them cloudy and RUIN any plastic-glue seals.

I had the top of a TDX shatter due to 5% alcohol over 2 months.
 
Arcygenical said:
FLUSH your LOOP IMMEDIATELY.

ALCOHOL WILL DISSOLVE plastics, turn them cloudy and RUIN any plastic-glue seals.
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Certainly true. Some alcohols will dissolve certain plastics. Don't take the chance; you'd be better off using an anti-fungal additive or something like SwiftX.
 
Arcygenical said:
FLUSH your LOOP IMMEDIATELY.

ALCOHOL WILL DISSOLVE plastics, turn them cloudy and RUIN any plastic-glue seals.

I had the top of a TDX shatter due to 5% alcohol over 2 months.
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QFT
distilled water and waste money on fancy additive if you want. No alcohol, no clorox, no crushed asprin, no fish tank stuff, no nothing thats not designed to go in a cooling loop.

whereTH does the "grow stuff" in the loop crap come from? If you are clean to start with, and I mean operating room clean, its not hard, and use distilled water and dont spit , wizz or othewise contaminate the loop, tell me whereTF do these "magic" alge come from ?


Damn mythbusters need to do a show on this old info crap. Back in the stone age somebody put tap water (or drained a mudpuddle) in his loop and set a windowed case by a sunny window and the legend that wont die was born.
 
BillParrish said:
QFT
distilled water and waste money on fancy additive if you want. No alcohol, no clorox, no crushed asprin, no fish tank stuff, no nothing thats not designed to go in a cooling loop.

whereTH does the "grow stuff" in the loop crap come from? If you are clean to start with, and I mean operating room clean, its not hard, and use distilled water and dont spit , wizz or othewise contaminate the loop, tell me whereTF do these "magic" alge come from ?
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1) Operating room clean? Never gonna happen in a typical household. To that, unless you autoclave it you can't guarantee the tubing isn't contaminated just from sitting on the shelf. It's not like it's kept hermetically sealed while in storage.

2) Commercial distilled water is not bidest. It generally undergoes single distillation, which does not necessarily produce sterile water, which means a potential for organisms.

So, I don't consider a whopping three dollars for fancy additives a waste. I consider it pretty cheap insurance.
 
mintos said:
I don't think Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol dissolves PVC...
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I agree. Click on the data sheet on this page.

It's definetely doing something to your tubes though. I reckon it's just sticking to them, rather than flowing with the water. You said it was like internal condensation, implying that it was static? The fact that when you press the tubes they go clear again, proves this. I don't know if the Isopropyl will harm the tubing over time, but the data sheet says it's okay for most plastics.

If it were my loop, I'd start thinking about flushing it and changing the water, just in case.
 
mintos said:
I don't think Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol dissolves PVC...
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Probably doesn't, but it does destroy Lucite. It might also attack Delrin. Speaking from experience.

Just because it doesn't destroy your tubes doesn't mean it won't destroy your rubber seals, plastic barbs, plexiglass (reservoirs) etc.

That "fog" is probably a particulate cloud that's resulted by the breakdown of certain plastic pieces.
 
well i have same problem, ive cleaned drained cleaned, tried maybe 5-6 differnt variations of
mixtures or distilled water, A/F (green) , alcohol, and zerex..

and no i didnt use zerex and a/f together. right now im using a 80-20 distilled and zerex.

waterpressure isnt a problem i have a pond master mag 12 . so it moooves water

what your gonna have to do is jus buckle down n buy new tubing, i jus bought like 20 ft .

then again i have like 2 water cooled pc's plus 3 friend with wc'ed pc'a
 
I thinks it's copper. It's a dangerdan 3x120mm model. The other reason why I say it's like condensation is because the area where I've pressed the tubes to rub it clean, stays clean. There's no repeat grayish buildup. I would expect that area to be going cloudy again if it were some type of buildup. Also, the liquid that I can see flowing through the clear part is clean. Nothing seems to be floating through it.
 
mintos said:
I thinks it's copper. It's a dangerdan 3x120mm model. The other reason why I say it's like condensation is because the area where I've pressed the tubes to rub it clean, stays clean. There's no repeat grayish buildup. I would expect that area to be going cloudy again if it were some type of buildup. Also, the liquid that I can see flowing through the clear part is clean. Nothing seems to be floating through it.
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I don't think water and alcohol mix properly (just as Oil and water won't either)...

Therefore Alcohol would be pressed towards the outside of the tubing...
 
dangerdan 3x120mm model
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That doesn't really help us a lot... DangerDen SELL rads, they don't make them... have a look at their site and tell us what make and model of radiator it is.
 
EvilTwinSkippy said:
1) Operating room clean? Never gonna happen in a typical household. To that, unless you autoclave it you can't guarantee the tubing isn't contaminated just from sitting on the shelf. It's not like it's kept hermetically sealed while in storage.

2) Commercial distilled water is not bidest. It generally undergoes single distillation, which does not necessarily produce sterile water, which means a potential for organisms.

So, I don't consider a whopping three dollars for fancy additives a waste. I consider it pretty cheap insurance.
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All very true, my exuberance for making sure my system is clean before it is assembled and passing on that advice, caused me to go over the top, by hospital clean I ment handle the componets as if they were sterile and you wanted to keep them that way, dunk everything in an alcohol/water solution and rinse immedately with lots of distilled water, clean even new rads with vinegar, yada yada couple of good guides out there. The prep section of this one is more what I really ment. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331 and the whole point was to be as clean as possible before filling the system. I think most people knew what I was trying to say.

Its good enough, and you cannot buy anything significantly better for less than a dollar gallon. no bug I know can handle being turned into steam and then condensed. I guess if the factory was dirty something could get in but thats a packaging issue. However you are correct it cannot be considered sterile. And I need to add that deionized water is not distilled water and should not be used.

Nope $3 aint bad but a quart of FluidXp for $35 is what I am talking about, and to some people even $35 is cheap insurance, not me, I am a cheap bastid and dont throw money away. An anecdotal point making reference: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131275
 
What is interesting to me is the perfect uniformity of the discoloration coupled with the fact it goes away if he mechanically disturbs a area and it does not reappear in that area.



My guess, and thats all it is, is that something, a plasticizer used in making the PVC probally, is leaching out of the pipe. This process has completed, clouding the pipe, and now disturbing an area causes whatever leached out and adheared to the inside of the pipe at that area to disengage from the plastic and go into solution with the water. Bet that tubing is not USDA approved for food use.

or

I could be all wet.
 
BillParrish said:
My guess, and thats all it is, is that something, a plasticizer used in making the PVC probally, is leaching out of the pipe. This process has completed, clouding the pipe, and now disturbing an area causes whatever leached out and adheared to the inside of the pipe at that area to disengage from the plastic and go into solution with the water. Bet that tubing is not USDA approved for food use.
.
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I was thinking that exactly.
 
My loop did the same thing, MasterKleer. However, it has been running for almost year. I can't confirm that the stuff doesn't come back after I squeeze the tube though.

I'm doing an overhaul on my loop with about 1/3 vinegar:water cleaning the loop right now. CSP-MAGs suck. Hopefully my new MD20 will help :)
 
Well... the water looks clear even under a jeweler's magnifying glass and the tubing is staying clear at the area where I rubbed it. I think i everything is ok.
 
I am guessing you didn't clean out your radiator before using it. That is your problem. Most radiators have lots of chemicals and crap inside of them from making them. It takes a good bit of cleaning to get rid of all that stuff. I bet you just threw it in the loop and said go. That means all that crap is now floating around your loop, and probably sticking to your tubing.

I also however agree with the sentiment that Isopropyl alcohol is a bad and potentially dangerous thing to add to your loop. If you want an additive use some antifreeze, not alcohol. If you dont want the color just run straight distilled water (assuming you dont have mixed metals).

@ Marci : Doesn't DangerDen only sell copper radiators? So while he didn't specify which brand is there that big of a difference between Black Ice, Thermochill, and heatercores, aside from the fact that Thermochill pwns them all?
 
Erasmus354 said:
I am guessing you didn't clean out your radiator before using it. That is your problem. Most radiators have lots of chemicals and crap inside of them from making them. It takes a good bit of cleaning to get rid of all that stuff. I bet you just threw it in the loop and said go. That means all that crap is now floating around your loop, and probably sticking to your tubing.
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for future reference, whats the best way to clean them prior to final use?
 
DanSan said:
for future reference, whats the best way to clean them prior to final use?
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Taken from : http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331

1. Flush the raditoar(sic) with distilled water. I suggest getting 2-3 2.5gallon jugs and just start pouring about 2.5-3gallons of distilled through the rad.
2. Pour Distilled or De-Ionzied water into radiator. - Pour until full, drain and repeat. Shaking the radiator when it is half full of water will help. Repeat this 3-5 times.
3. Following the same procedure as in step 2, repeat with vinegar.
4. Fill the radiator with vinegar, and let it sit for appx. 6-8 hours.
5.Flush the radiator after 6-8 hours, following the procedure of step 2. Repeat Step 3 as well.
6.Repeat Step 4.
7.Repeat Step 2.


Follow the link and scroll down a ways until you see the bowl with blue liquid in it. That is actually white vinegar after sitting in a new radiator for 6 hours.
 
I don't think it's plasticizer leeching. I think it crap in the rad and block. This is based on running a Koolance EXOS Al with their block and rad for 1 year with some cheap PVC 1/4" ID tubing. Whole loop remained clean and clear for a whole year.

Clean the rad and block as the Xtreme Systems thread states. THEN get a whole house inline water filter with a 5 micron filter element. Anywhere from $20 to $35 depending on which size you buy. Like this Pentek filter. run said filter for 24-48 hours, then either remove it from the loop, or put it on bypass, add some biocide, like the PT Nuke, and you should be good to go.

The reason you don't leave the filter in permanently is that a filter element is only good for about 8K gallons of water. Pump running at 100 gal/hr would use the filter up in 3 days time.
 
Could be anything, true, I think the whole point of this is to clean your stuff as good as you can before you install it, rads in particular, alcohol is not not good in the loop, and my 2 cents, use premium tubing. But I still cant get over the uniform distribution over the surface of the tubing. A google of PVC Leaching will bring up a susprising result of the nasty stuff that comes out of PVC and the use of it in a lot of hospital equipment is particually alarming although the medical industry seems to be on top of it now.
 
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