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What will happen to nvidia?
- Thread starter OhMyGod
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michael.pa2
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Seems every dominant company faces anti-trust scrutiny,but it rarely seems to stop them.You don't see anyone telling Nvidia they have to share SLI,so why should Intel be obliged to share anything with them.Intel holds the patent for Nehalem,they can choose to do what they like with it.Should Intel have competition? Sure,it's better for consumers.But with Nvidia's track record with their chipsets,I'd rather see someone else be that competition.
LstBrunnenG
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What will happen to nVidia? Why, they're going to take down Intel. Haven't you been listening to their CEO?
ADRENALIN_2099
Gawd
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nvidia will be fine
the FX series was shit (not saying that this applies to the GTX series) and they bounced back with the 6 Series that was awesome. Companies need to bet dirt kicked in their face to they react. AMD did it to Intel and Intel in now doing it back. ATI did it to Nvidia and, well Nvidia is doing it ATI. its all a cycle. and i love it
the FX series was shit (not saying that this applies to the GTX series) and they bounced back with the 6 Series that was awesome. Companies need to bet dirt kicked in their face to they react. AMD did it to Intel and Intel in now doing it back. ATI did it to Nvidia and, well Nvidia is doing it ATI. its all a cycle. and i love it
heatlesssun
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It may not stop them but it definitely can change certain behavior. Just ask Microsoft.
TheBuzzer
HACK THE WORLD!
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Nvidia will be fine for sure. Know why?
their chipset is still more powerful than ati's on a single chip.
ati spends a good amount using new and faster ram technology and also to have their cards using more than one gpu chip,
Remeber 3dfx?
The single chip that is more powerful will win in the long run. Depending on the same design and just adding more of them running isnt really a good choice.
ati did do some nice pricing but nvidia still have the upper hand if they dye strink their card and also use ddr3 rams.
just think how much more bandwidth speed nvidia will be with teh same design just smaller dye and more bandwidth for ddr3.
their chipset is still more powerful than ati's on a single chip.
ati spends a good amount using new and faster ram technology and also to have their cards using more than one gpu chip,
Remeber 3dfx?
The single chip that is more powerful will win in the long run. Depending on the same design and just adding more of them running isnt really a good choice.
ati did do some nice pricing but nvidia still have the upper hand if they dye strink their card and also use ddr3 rams.
just think how much more bandwidth speed nvidia will be with teh same design just smaller dye and more bandwidth for ddr3.
Lawsuit isnt option for NV - it would taky X years and result is unpredictable - Intel could just say that they have right to get something in return for their licence and that something is SLI licence.
category_five
Limp Gawd
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48xx
Last edited:
ikarinokami
Gawd
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Intel would never make that argument because they would lost in about 30 seconds. The rules against monopolys are harsh. The reason why nvidia does not have to give sli is that they are not a monoply and it maintains competetive balance. This is going to only end one way, nividia gives its license, intel gets its chipset head start, and the battle for the gpupu begins in earnest.
Man thank god the OP doesn't run a company. One product does not a future make. Especially since nothing is wrong with the product except its price relative to the competition. All the "flops" in the past have been too slow,not too expensive. The latter is a much easier fix.
LstBrunnenG
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So true. I doubt they've stopped making G92s either.
You have to realize, GT200 is a huge die. It costs a lot of money to make them because of the yields a chip that size gets, plus the fact that not nearly as many of them fit on a wafer as, say, a G92 or RV770.
Yes, but people typically overestimate the net effect of chip cost on the total BOM. Nobody knows what Nvidia is paying for a 65nm wafer vs AMD for a 55nm one. We also don't know what GT200 yields are like though they are undoubtedly lower than RV770's. Die size is important but alone it doesn't tell you anything about total cost to the IHV. I can assure you that the cost of an HD4870 board is not half that of a GTX-280 board especially considering the current situation with GDDR5.
AIB's love these super-high end boards because the increase in selling price is far greater than the increase in the cost of manufacturing vs the mid-range stuff. Nvidia could sell GTX-280's for $450 and still turn a profit. Shareholders won't appreciate that though as it's all about the margins. AMD doesn't care as much about margins at the moment...they just want to sell a boatload of cards and reclaim market share so a combination of low prices and low cost is a great strategy for them.
Agreed. That AMD have a competitive and good-value product again after a weak period restores the competitiveness in the market, and that's good for anyone. Nvidia have been able to get away with selling variations on a theme for high prices for too long. I'm not sure why "fans" of one company want others to do badly in any area, since the consumers win when they're closely matched.
NOT when NVIDIA is denying SLI to Intel...you can not cry foul, when you get shafted like you shaft others...
AMD/ATI has a load of debt, Nvidia has zero debt. For a tech company that is insane. Also, no matter what happens with these cards, the majority of the market is sold to people like dell and HP and consoles. This launch won't change any of that.
ATI's research has been underfunded for a while, this might give them some help, but it isn't going to get them out of debt over night.
This certinantly isn't going to sink Nvidia. The next major card release will happen within a year, so it's not like this is something that is going to matter for a long time.
And no matter how good the cards are or are not, brand names sell more cards than anything else. The average consumer is an idiot. Never forget that.
DarkLegacy
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Nvidia is in great shape. People tend to forget how much of an iron grip nvidia has on the retail market. There GPU's & mobile GPU are carried by damn near everyone in there builds. Such as Dell, Gateway, Hp, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Even with the performance that the 4850/4870 offers, retailers are much more likely to back nvidia as they've been much more reliable than ATI(AMD) has. AMD has a much larger hill to climb than people think they do. 1 decent series isn't going to get them far.
michael.pa2
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From what I've seen,the heat and power is about the same as the GTX 200 cards,and that's what they're really competing with.And they seem to be selling pretty well if the forums are any indication.
The companies are focused on very different things at the moment. A lot of the improvements in GT200 are targeted at Tesla, CUDA and the HPC market. The thing hurting them the most right now is the relatively low clocks on the Geforce line. But the Tesla stuff looks very impressive.
On the other hand AMD focused a lot on perf/mm with RV770 hence the significant overhaul in the memory controller, texture units, rops etc. GT200 being big and RV770 being small doesn't have anything to do with the size of R&D budgets, just different strategic decisions. However, with all that said AMD's work on RV770 is still very impressive and hopefully inspires Nvidia to focus a bit more on space efficiency in future designs.
So why don't AMD fix this..and let their users of the hook?
This is really going down south fast...fastest card on the market is "went so wrongly"?
SharpieFiend
Gawd
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nVidia currently makes terrible Intel chipsets, so you're going to buy an X38/X48 chipset based board unless you specifically want SLI. With the 4870 performing so well nVidia is going to quickly be nonexistant in the Intel space unless they can come up with something more compelling then what they currently offer. They'll still sell a ton of AMD chipsets, but with the Phenom being the 'value' brand now the margins aren't nearly as high. I'm not saying that it's time to dump nVidia stock or anything, but they could be in for a few tough quarters.
Would you dump nVidia shares now assuming that you had some in your portfolio?
I own Nvidia shares, and it is undervalued atm. Don't believe me? Go look up the ratings.
You can't do something that takes 10 seconds? There is nothing wrong with the cards - AMD chose noise reduction over temp reductions. Most people will use the card as it came without any issues throughout its life. They won't even bother to check the temp readings and wouldn't care even if they did. Only "enthusiasts" obsess over temperatures when everything runs fine. If you're one, take 10 seconds and fix it yourself.
Yeah, it sure went downhill alright. I can't believe we still have apologists for this card. No need for me to state the arguments again - it's been discussed already throughout this forum and many others. Just know that you're just creating a red herring - no one denies it's the fastest single GPU. There's just the tiny little problem that it costs double a card that delivers 80-90% of performance and gets slaughtered by Crossfire.
So a top-end card from AMD requires tinkering to work as it should..nice.
Why don't AMD get off their asses and uses 10 seconds to fix this for ALL it's users...a simple option in the drivers, bug gone, users not annoyed...that would be the clever way...
No, you did...lets go down memory lane, since you created the fallacy that the price is "above" normal launch:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA2LDksLDE4MA==
What was that?
OH NOES...A $500 card at launch!!!
But it gets even more funny:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjEwLDksLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0
OH NOES...A $500 card at launch!!!
Add inflation ect...I don't see how anyother than people commting a fallacy could point at the price and scream "MURDER"
But lets continue to debunk your stance:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk3LDExLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
OH NOES...A $550 card at launch!!!
But lets jump to the next generation:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=
OH NOES...A $600 card at launch!!!
(The intelligent observer might notice a trend now, a trend some people rather forget, as otherwise their stance would be revaled for what it is...a fallacy!)
But lets dig on:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIyLDIsLGhuZXdz
OH NOES...A $550 card at launch!!!
And now the plot thickens:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTUzLDIsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0
OH NOES...A $550 card at launch!!!
Do I really need to dig more?
I am soooooo tired of people with a memory shorther than a goldfish, making up fallices to support their *beeeeep* claims...
THIS IS NOT UNSUAL!
Pretending that it is so, is at best a fallacy...at the worst a deliberate lie...which one is it GS29?
The next time you accuse me of a "red herring" you better back that statement up with more than a none-exsistant memory
PS:
You can stick you multi-GPU setups in a pipe a smoke them, I don't want buggy gameplay..or spend months wating for a dual-GPU fix.
inotocracy
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What will Nvidia do? Continue to sell video cards, possibly at a lower price. Competition is good for everyone. Nvidia will release a new part soon enough and will probably take the performance/price crown again, and then this process will repeat.
SharpieFiend
Gawd
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I sold my nVidia shares a while ago, when they started publicly feuding with Intel. It's not very smart to argue with the 800 pound gorilla of the tech world, and it seems that other investors have agreed - nVidia prices are almost half now of what I sold at.
So I guess the answer would be 'yes', but if you had nVidia shares you probably sold them by now anyway. They have no compelling new products and declining market share/sales in the core markets (ie. chipsets, video cards). I see the 260/280 cards as a failure, not because they're bad products, but because of the price. They can't seem to make a decent Intel chipset (which was an area they needed to grow into), and AMD has eaten nVidia's lunch when it comes to chipsets on their platform.
What do I see in nVidia's future? Definitely a price reduction on the 260/280 cards, which will probably mean selling the GPUs at a loss. They'll have to rely on the 9xxx series cards to drive sales, which will also see price reductions and lower profits. When Intel/AMD start producing SoCs in 2009/2010 nVidia will no longer have a market for chipsets or low-end graphics cards. If Larabee is anything to write home about then there will be three major players in the high-performance graphics market which will mean everyone else will be squeezed a bit. nVidia is pursuing new markets, like MIDs, but will be directly competing with Intel and likely AMD (not to mention everyone else producing ARM CPUs).
nVidia needs to come up with something big, and make it soon.
ikarinokami
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Are you for real? declining market share? In what reality? Second the chip is a huge sucess, because its aim at the market it should be aimed at, the emerging Cuda market. 9800gtx+ plus does just fine as the a consumer card to go against ati. Nvidia is right to go after the large untapped market that Cuda will be. If AMD weren't in such dire straits at the moment I am sure they would have spent the money to develop the 512-bit memory bus that is going to essential in this area, and just cede the battle for this market to nvidia and soon intel. so sure if you a consumer your happy with ati, but if your a stockholder and you the point of being a stockholder is to a massive return on your investment, the nvidia is the solution is the clear winner because its pushes the company foward toward a untapped market.
nVidia shares are down 43% this year so far.
It's gonna continue losing its market share to ATI.
Guess how it's gonna affect its revenue and profit margins?
Yup, and it very likely will be with Catalyst 8.7. Your point? Is it a reason not to get the card?
I'm guessing you don't know what a red herring is, because you just used another one. In which of these cases did the other side (ATI or NV) have a card $350 cheaper which performed very close? Answer that precise question. No attempt at a diversion this time.
SharpieFiend
Gawd
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I see that reading isn't one of your strong points. They do have declining market share in chipsets, and declining sales of their video cards. The declining sales is affecting ATI as well, it's what the market for the product is right now. As the United States slips further into its recession the market will decline further, which makes price all that much more important.
One thing we don't know is exactly how profitable the 9800GTX+ is for nVidia. They just did a major price drop on the product and will likely drop its price again, as ATI can be extremely competitive on price. I'm already seeing 4850s here in Canada selling well below MSRP, and that's something that rarely happens.
CUDA is interesting but hardly unique to nVidia. ATI has their own version as well, and I would hesitate to say there's a currently a large market for it. The market may develop, but nVidia will hardly be the only player.
If you've been an nVidia shareholder for any length of time you've already seen big losses on your investment, so your argument there doesn't hold water. Feel free to try again though.
Rather that "a fixed monthly driver release" binds your hands and I have no intetion of guying this series...waiting for nehalem and the GPU refreshs...but thanks for the fallacy
Another fallacy...(glad you didn't just recant you previous one)
...the consensus is that the 4870 and the GTX260 are more or less comparable in prefomance....but the GTX280 is above them...hence higher pricer.
When don't you post fallcies?
Lets see.... AMD... 52 week High16.19
Current market price... 5.95. or down 63%. Nvidia is off only 52% off it's 52 week high.
This was the last rating change on Nvidia.
Cowen Starts NVIDIA (NVDA) at Outperform
Last I checked it was at 70/30 outpreform/underperform.
This stock is undervalued, it is the time to buy.
Also, the value of the stock of a company has no dealing with the operations of the company when the company is not issuing stock.
i am running sli 9600GT's ... can u please tell me what buggy game play i should be experiencing according to you?
It's already been a tough year for NVDA.