Where is the HD 3850 AGP card?

[Hagrid]

Ignorant, pompous statement.

No the truth. If i didnt have the money, i would save. Why pay alot more for a video card and have it be slower, then just save and get a new system?
Sell the old system and it makes it even less.

Saving up for something i guess isnt the in thing to do. I guess that was back in my day!

 

[honestjohn]

Because they want to waste money on an AGP card rather then just saving and getting a ton more for their video/computer purchase.(Doesnt apply to people who dont really game)

If they choose to stay with it then more power to them I say.

Let me throw this out there for you Hagrid. I have a socket 754 based rig with an Overclocked AMD 64 3700+, 2 GB of Memory, 500GB Hard drive and a Sound Blaster X-Fi card. I also have about 120 Games, cracked, patched, imaged, and installed for myself and two children. I also have 20-30 tweaked apps, 20-30 utilities, all the family's home movies stored, and my Rig is tweaked exactly the way I like it. I also work quite a bit and hardly have any free time as it is. So I was wondering if it was OK for me to upgrade my video card to the HD 3850 512MB AGP card? You see, I'm really not interested at the moment in spending every waking minute of my life putting my PC back together for the next 3 months and it would be much easier to throw a new video card in my Rig to extend it's life. So for me it's just not worth all the trouble at the moment. What do you think?

 

[Desdichado]

No the truth. If i didnt have the money, i would save. Why pay alot more for a video card and have it be slower, then just save and get a new system?
Sell the old system and it makes it even less.

Saving up for something i guess isnt the in thing to do. I guess that was back in my day!

What if, sometime during the five or so years it takes me to save up for a new system, I want a new video card? The fact that I'm doing that obviously means I save, disproving your point, but a new system cost ~$1000 if you want it nice. A new video card is substantially less. Also, some of us have multiple systems around, so nothing is ever unused. When I get a new system, parts from my old one will get redistributed into other systems, meaning everything gets used for ~5-6 years. Seems like a decent investment to me.

 

[lodingi]

No the truth. If i didnt have the money, i would save. Why pay alot more for a video card and have it be slower, then just save and get a new system?
Sell the old system and it makes it even less.

Saving up for something i guess isnt the in thing to do. I guess that was back in my day!

Ok. This is the third time I'm stating this in THIS thread alone. I have a gaming rig with an 8800GT (G92) 512. Pretty FREAKING current if you ask me. Now I have this spare system that still plays games & functions well. It won't play Crysis or COD4 but who cares. I can play them on my main rig. If I do any major upgrades, it will go to my main rig. Shit will flow down hill from there. Not really sure why I need to build a whole new rig when changing one component will suffice. Add to that everything John & Desdichado has stated and there's your answer.

You are right about one thing. I do not need to save up for any upgrade. If I want it, I buy it. End of story. Right now I would like an ATI 3850 AGP card.

 

[God_Of_Death]

No the truth. If i didnt have the money, i would save. Why pay alot more for a video card and have it be slower, then just save and get a new system?
Sell the old system and it makes it even less.

Saving up for something i guess isnt the in thing to do. I guess that was back in my day!

how will buying a 3850 be slower than anything currently in agp? i was not aware there was something faster already out than a 3850agp.

why do people automatically have to sell their system? i don't like to sell. how does a $200-$250 vid card compare to a $1000 complete system upgrade? don't quote me cheap-o micro-atx mobo's and low end cpu's either because your deffinition of "upgrade" will vary from mine.

my current system still keeps me very happy but having an agp rig make me a lesser person when compared to some one that has a pcie system, right?

this is like trying to argue with a rock or a religious fanatic. in your mind, and people like you, agp is a sin that must be wipped off the face of this forum.

 

[another-user]

i said this on another forum, and im going to say it here.

i can sell my 1950xt for about 250. its an upgrade that will cost me next to nothing out of pocket.


costing almost nothing out of pocket sure as hell beats spending 600-1000k for a new system that i dont even need.

 

[Hagrid]

Let me throw this out there for you Hagrid. I have a socket 754 based rig with an Overclocked AMD 64 3700+, 2 GB of Memory, 500GB Hard drive and a Sound Blaster X-Fi card. I also have about 120 Games, cracked, patched, imaged, and installed for myself and two children. I also have 20-30 tweaked apps, 20-30 utilities, all the family's home movies stored, and my Rig is tweaked exactly the way I like it. I also work quite a bit and hardly have any free time as it is. So I was wondering if it was OK for me to upgrade my video card to the HD 3850 512MB AGP card? You see, I'm really not interested at the moment in spending every waking minute of my life putting my PC back together for the next 3 months and it would be much easier to throw a new video card in my Rig to extend it's life. So for me it's just not worth all the trouble at the moment. What do you think?

I have my computer separated so its much easier. I also have backups of stuff so reloading is easy.
You can upgrade to anything ya want, its not my money. hehe

 

[Hagrid]

What if, sometime during the five or so years it takes me to save up for a new system, I want a new video card? The fact that I'm doing that obviously means I save, disproving your point, but a new system cost ~$1000 if you want it nice. A new video card is substantially less. Also, some of us have multiple systems around, so nothing is ever unused. When I get a new system, parts from my old one will get redistributed into other systems, meaning everything gets used for ~5-6 years. Seems like a decent investment to me.

1000? ive built them for people for alot less including a 19" lcd monitor.

 

[Hagrid]

how will buying a 3850 be slower than anything currently in agp? i was not aware there was something faster already out than a 3850agp.

why do people automatically have to sell their system? i don't like to sell. how does a $200-$250 vid card compare to a $1000 complete system upgrade? don't quote me cheap-o micro-atx mobo's and low end cpu's either because your deffinition of "upgrade" will vary from mine.

my current system still keeps me very happy but having an agp rig make me a lesser person when compared to some one that has a pcie system, right?

this is like trying to argue with a rock or a religious fanatic. in your mind, and people like you, agp is a sin that must be wipped off the face of this forum.

ROFL. Easy tiger, take your meds.

I said that they should save if they want to play the newer games or game alot. If they dont play games all that much, its not a big deal.

It also comes down to their money. Some people also dont want to reload. Some dont know how to build a computer.

I just think that its a waste of money trying to but the best agp card for 200$+(unless as i stated above). Its just an opinion, its ok for people to disagree.... really...

 

[honestjohn]

I have my computer separated so its much easier. I also have backups of stuff so reloading is easy.
You can upgrade to anything ya want, its not my money. hehe

I image my hard drive regularly. hehe. I backup regularly. hehe. When you swap motherboards you need to re-intsall everything including the OS. hehe. If you don't you're asking for trouble and blue screens. You can upgrade anything you want hehe. Yeah right. I've been in the business for 15 years so please don't tell me about how Windows Device Manager will magically recognize the new motherboard and install everything perfectly for me.

I meant all my files and such, not the OS.

I know what you meant and it doesn't matter how everything is seperated. Also I was not taking about restoring "data", that would be a no-brainer, it's the crapload of apps and games that I mentioned in my previous post which would take forever. So a reload/install would be required for everything after switching platforms. I guess all you use your PC for is gaming, some of us use it for more.

 

[Desdichado]

1000? ive built them for people for alot less including a 19" lcd monitor.

Yes, but that's using not the nicest components available... when I build, I use nice stuff and high end stuff.

yet another thread with the letters "agp" that is hopelessly thrown off-topic in less than 10 posts... I rest my case. I am leaving now, to prevent injuring myself due to frustration at the stupidity of others.

 

[lodingi]

I image my hard drive regularly. hehe. I backup regularly. hehe. When you swap motherboards you need to re-intsall everything including the OS. hehe. If you don't you're asking for trouble and blue screens. You can upgrade anything you want hehe. Yeah right. I've been in the business for 15 years so please don't tell me about how Windows Device Manager will magically recognize the new motherboard and install everything perfectly for me.

Hehe.

 

[Hagrid]

I image my hard drive regularly. hehe. I backup regularly. hehe. When you swap motherboards you need to re-intsall everything including the OS. hehe. If you don't you're asking for trouble and blue screens. You can upgrade anything you want hehe. Yeah right. I've been in the business for 15 years so please don't tell me about how Windows Device Manager will magically recognize the new motherboard and install everything perfectly for me.

I meant all my files and such, not the OS.

 

[Hagrid]

Yes, but that's using not the nicest components available... when I build, I use nice stuff and high end stuff.

yet another thread with the letters "agp" that is hopelessly thrown off-topic in less than 10 posts... I rest my case. I am leaving now, to prevent injuring myself due to frustration at the stupidity of others.

Because you are the smartest person and everone else is stupid.

We bow to your greatness?!

The build I did was actually with good stuff. it was just with a 8500GT video card, and came to around 700. 2gb, c2d e2180, p35 mb, corsair PS, etc. That build had no monitor though.

 

[Scolecite]

I have a FX-53 with Radeon X800 AGP, 1GB Corsair XMS, and I am interested in this AGP solution.

I will buy one the second it comes out to test it. Alot of the people here are living at home and can save up $700 easier than I can. $200 still sucks but it will get me playing COD4, Crysis, and UT3 heaps better than they run now.

And Ill be playing those games 2 years from now at LAN parties or whatever.

 

[Chombo]

I upgraded from a p133mhz & win95 to a p300mhz & win98, then to a PIII 933mhz & win2000, then to a p4 2Ghz & XP pro, and my last uprade was to a P4 3.0ghz & XP pro and Vista Ultimate. In all these upgrades I have used hard drives, video cards, cases and PS from previous setups and have bought many components to enhance performance. Perhaps my next upgrade will be the new socket cpus, once prices settle down

Well, to make it more relevant into the "When this AGP card is coming out". I should say that I need it so I could wait to the new socket CPUs while I play COD2 and COD4 @ 1280 x 1024 or 1600 x 1200 native resolutions.

I completely understand the AGP people, I recently took the PCI-E plunge myself. Like many AGP users it seemed that it was more cost effective to just buy a new video card. And in the past I recycled most of my parts from older machines.

Heres the catch, as good as AGP may be the cards offered for it are diminishing in value and number quickly. I did have certain standards at which I liked to game at, and at this point there was nothing AGP could do for me, especially if I wanted DX10.

Then theres the recycling of parts. PCI-E is not the only thing that makes recycling difficult. Most new PCI-E boards are also SATA instead of ATA. Which means you can't recycle your old hard drives. I found the only things I could recycle would be my optical drives, which does not save much money.

Eventually I realized my 754 board just was not going to cut it. I shelled out just under $700 which I agree is much more than $200 for a new video card but I am not looking back. But my old system still serves me fine for games like HL2 and BF2.

Hang on AGP!

 

[Hagrid]

I completely understand the AGP people, I recently took the PCI-E plunge myself. Like many AGP users it seemed that it was more cost effective to just buy a new video card. And in the past I recycled most of my parts from older machines.

Heres the catch, as good as AGP may be the cards offered for it are diminishing in value and number quickly. I did have certain standards at which I liked to game at, and at this point there was nothing AGP could do for me, especially if I wanted DX10.

Then theres the recycling of parts. PCI-E is not the only thing that makes recycling difficult. Most new PCI-E boards are also SATA instead of ATA. Which means you can't recycle your old hard drives. I found the only things I could recycle would be my optical drives, which does not save much money.

Eventually I realized my 754 board just was not going to cut it. I shelled out just under $700 which I agree is much more than $200 for a new video card but I am not looking back. But my old system still serves me fine for games like HL2 and BF2.

Hang on AGP!

I agree. Also alot of people need to upgrade their memory to 2gb and a better PS, which makes it even more to stay with agp. I guess with the kids its nice to have an excuse to upgrade myself and give them the old parts(recycle)
I am a cheap bastard, so it was hard, expecially for the kids computers.... uugh. Had to buy mostly new everything except a few cpu's.
The wife got me the 8800gt for my bday which was nice. I have never spent that much on a single computer part until that card.....

 

[farfromhome]

Then theres the recycling of parts. PCI-E is not the only thing that makes recycling difficult. Most new PCI-E boards are also SATA instead of ATA. Which means you can't recycle your old hard drives. I found the only things I could recycle would be my optical drives, which does not save much money.

Actually, there are ways around that. For one, there are $15 PATA-to-SATA converters, though they're kinda flimsy for my tastes. For two, you can get a board with a NVIDIA 650i or 750i chipset; those still have 2 PATA ports (for 4 PATA devices) native to the chipset (not the crappy JMicron). And you get SLI capability to boot. I'd normally go for an Intel chipset anyday for an Intel processor, but if you have lots of PATA devices, the midrange NVIDIA chipset can't be beat.

If I were buying one in the next month or two, I'd probably go for the MSI P7N SLI Platinum; I was very happy with my MSI K8N SLI Platinum back in the 939 days, and MSI is inexpensive.

 

[Chombo]

Actually, there are ways around that. For one, there are $15 PATA-to-SATA converters, though they're kinda flimsy for my tastes. For two, you can get a board with a NVIDIA 650i or 750i chipset; those still have 2 PATA ports (for 4 PATA devices) native to the chipset (not the crappy JMicron). And you get SLI capability to boot. I'd normally go for an Intel chipset anyday for an Intel processor, but if you have lots of PATA devices, the midrange NVIDIA chipset can't be beat.

If I were buying one in the next month or two, I'd probably go for the MSI P7N SLI Platinum; I was very happy with my MSI K8N SLI Platinum back in the 939 days, and MSI is inexpensive.

Yea I have seen those, but considering you can get a 80 gig SATA hard drive for less than $40 then a $15 converter seems silly.

 

[Spino]

For those of you who are stupefied as to why AMD remains adamant on supporting 'obsolete' AGP motherboards take a look at the results of Valve's handy little system survey...

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

I find it funny that only Nvidia user info is available for the Bus Types category but the results are eye opening....

Bus Types (514781 NVIDIA Users)
AGP 4x 41,232 8.01 %
AGP 8x 120,342 23.38 %
PCIe 4x 6,314 1.23 %
PCIe 8x 13,431 2.61 %
PCIe 16x 310,901 60.39 %
Other 3,497 0.68 %

So a whopping 31% of Nvidia gamers still play with AGP based systems. It is probably safe to assume that the same percentage would apply to AMD/ATI users. If anything one has to wonder why in hell Nvidia chose to abandon the AGP bus altogether...

 

[Chombo]

For those of you who are stupefied as to why AMD remains adamant on supporting 'obsolete' AGP motherboards take a look at the results of Valve's handy little system survey...

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

I find it funny that only Nvidia user info is available for the Bus Types category but the results are eye opening....

Bus Types (514781 NVIDIA Users)
AGP 4x 41,232 8.01 %
AGP 8x 120,342 23.38 %
PCIe 4x 6,314 1.23 %
PCIe 8x 13,431 2.61 %
PCIe 16x 310,901 60.39 %
Other 3,497 0.68 %

So a whopping 31% of Nvidia gamers still play with AGP based systems. It is probably safe to assume that the same percentage would apply to AMD/ATI users. If anything one has to wonder why in hell Nvidia chose to abandon the AGP bus altogether...

I would assume its because of the other 60% unfortunately. On a side note your numbers do not add up to 100%, they add up to 96.3%

 

[Waveforme]

Not everyone is a hardware junkie that likes to upgrade as soon as something new comes out. Some us like to get as much life out of our rigs as we can.

My current gamer is PCI-E but I still have my "old" socket A, agp rig. I managed to pick up an X1950PRO for under $140 a while back. This upgrade made an "old, outdated rig" still a viable gamer. It plays UT3 just fine once you tweak the settings. Hey, if the 3850 agp will get me another 2 years out of this system and cost under $200, I might just get one.

Lastly, someone spoke about "upgrading with a cheap PCI-E motherboard. Why would I go cheap on a motherboard ? It's kinda the foundation of your PC. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't give a cheap motherboard a second glance.

 

[soundguy]

isai95

AGP much faster than PCI-E X16 2.0
Check out the true that PCI-E developer does not want you to know:
http://www.agp_8x_faster_than_pci-e_x16_2.0.html

i find that very "convenient" for you that that link doesn't work

 

[honestjohn]

Some very good Powercolor HD3850 AGP install Pics and some benches. Card still not available yet in the US though ....

http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=2586045&postcount=69

Edit:

Also saw a post from a Mod at Anandtech and he said he spoke with a Sales Rep for Sapphire and they said their card will be out Mid-February in the US.

 

[NKDietrich]

I would assume its because of the other 60% unfortunately. On a side note your numbers do not add up to 100%, they add up to 96.3%

Also that is a survey of Steam users, many of which probably use Steam only to play HL2 or HL1, which don't require much horsepower. So the user-base is probably shifted towards the low end.

 

[Spino]

I would assume its because of the other 60% unfortunately. On a side note your numbers do not add up to 100%, they add up to 96.3%

Heh, good point. Keep in mind those are Valve's numbers, not mine. Valve is either cooking the books or the missing 3.7% belongs to those poor souls who don't even classify as 'Other'.

Also that is a survey of Steam users, many of which probably use Steam only to play HL2 or HL1, which don't require much horsepower. So the user-base is probably shifted towards the low end.

Given the phenomenal success of HL1, HL2, the HL1 & 2 mods (i.e. Counterstrike) and TF2 then Steam users are probably the best representation of PC gamers you can find. Gamers who spend more than $200-250 on a 3D card are the exception, not the rule. The profit margins for high end cards is certainly greater but the real money is made with budget and mid-range cards, especially those large volume deals made with PC makers.

 

[farfromhome]

Given the phenomenal success of HL1, HL2, the HL1 & 2 mods (i.e. Counterstrike) and TF2 then Steam users are probably the best representation of PC gamers you can find. Gamers who spend more than $200-250 on a 3D card are the exception, not the rule. The profit margins for high end cards is certainly greater but the real money is made with budget and mid-range cards, especially those large volume deals made with PC makers.

Sadly, that's just budget, not mid-range. Most computers that are not specifically marketed for gamers seem to have integrated, or maybe something on the order of a 8500 GT or 2400 XT by default, neither of which even deserve the designation "mid-range" to me. And the ones that are marketed towards gamers either use true (or almost) lower-mid-range cards like the 8600 GTS or the 2600 XT, or use decent (but not great) cards and have costs in the stratosphere. There's a reason that gamers probably build their own computers in a much greater proportion than non-gamers; pre-built gaming computers from large OEMs tend to be ripoffs.

One reason that WoW has found so much success is that you can run it on the crapola video cards than come with OEM systems (and Macs ) Try doing that (very well at least) even with HL2. The Sims Life Stories has very low graphics requirements for the same reason. I think that the Valve survey still gets an above-average sample of PC gamers, or at least people with PC's who play games. It's sad, especially when one can now get decent graphics for $160 (HD 3850), which would be even cheaper for OEM's, that most computers don't even have the option of a decent graphics card, and that your average consumer wouldn't even know which graphics cards are reasonable and which ones are still useless for playing most games.

 

[Chombo]

Heh, good point. Keep in mind those are Valve's numbers, not mine. Valve is either cooking the books or the missing 3.7% belongs to those poor souls who don't even classify as 'Other'.



Given the phenomenal success of HL1, HL2, the HL1 & 2 mods (i.e. Counterstrike) and TF2 then Steam users are probably the best representation of PC gamers you can find. Gamers who spend more than $200-250 on a 3D card are the exception, not the rule. The profit margins for high end cards is certainly greater but the real money is made with budget and mid-range cards, especially those large volume deals made with PC makers.

Valve probably figures that they're Valve and they don't need to worry about little details like that.

 

[adonn78]

Yes , I heard there was an AGP version coming out. And that the 3850 was going to be $50. For that price and witht he 75 watt power draw I would by it for ym friend's little brother as a late Xmas present. that way we could play company of heroes and some other newer games together. his ATI 9550 died on him and he;s using integrated graphics so we are stuck with either playing warcraft 3 ( great game) or Warhammer 40K Dawn of war. He lags bad without a card and his power supply is only 300 watts and proprietary. He is 14 and can't afford a new system. His older brother is In the army. SIO I play videogames with him. I can;t wait tillt he AGP version of the 3850 comes out.

 

[another-user]

i dont know where you heard that price from, but thats defiantly not true. the price will be closer to $250. it also sucks a little over 2x that power if i remember correct.

 

[evolucion8]

i dont know where you heard that price from, but thats defiantly not true. the price will be closer to $250. it also sucks a little over 2x that power if i remember correct.

The Radeon HD 3850 sucks little less than 95W under high load, for sure, it would need a 450W decent branded PSU. Considering that is much cheaper to manufacture than the Radeon X1950PRO, I don't see why it cannot costs around 200 bucks?

 

[another-user]

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/591/13/

the 3850 draws 96w at idle, and 195 under full load. other reviews put it around 100-120w at idle, and 180-210 under load.

 

[honestjohn]

The Radeon HD 3850 sucks little less than 95W under high load, for sure, it would need a 450W decent branded PSU. Considering that is much cheaper to manufacture than the Radeon X1950PRO, I don't see why it cannot costs around 200 bucks?

Because the price of video cards are usually not based on manufacturing costs? Sure, It's a part of the equation, but I think the price is influenced more by actual/perceived popularity and performance level. The HD 3850 will be more or less be replacing the X1950 Pro / GT in the performance line and the cost will hopefully be cheaper than the X1950 Pro was at launch but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same either.

I was just looking through my online purchase receipts. The first X1950 Pro to market in the US was a Visiontek's x1950 Pro 256MB card which hit stores at the end of November of 2006. That card costed $299. Then several weeks after that the other manufacturers released their cards which were mostly 512MB products. I returned the Visiontek to Best Buy and picked up the Sapphire X1950 Pro 512MB which costed $250 at ZipZoomFly which was a pretty good price at the time.

So I'm not really surprised by the pricing of the HD3850 AGP at all. The performance level will be much greater than the X1950 Pro and it could also be cheaper if it launches at a $200 price point as expected, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the card for $250 at launch either.


Edit:

Holy Crap! What was I thinking? Going through my old online invoices I just saw that I paid GameVE $529 for a eVGA FX 5900 ULTRA 256MB on 6/16/2003? Must of EBayed a lot of crap to pay for that one. Damn.

 

[another-user]

lol damn, the wost i ever did was 389 shipped on my x800 pro the day it hit shelfs.

 

[honestjohn]

lol damn, the wost i ever did was 389 shipped on my x800 pro the day it hit shelfs.

Yeah, I think that's probably the most money I ever spent for a video card ever.

You mentioned the X800 Pro, I also picked up a X800XT-PE when they first hit and I believe it was around $450 at the time. Think I was one of the first few to get one as well since I got a hold of mine from CompUSA's Business Dept. These cards were nowhere to be found, even CompUSA's Retail Side didn't have any but this one Business Sales Rep had about 50 for some reason. So, that night I had good timing for once and saw his number posted on a Forum by someone. I think everyone on the Forum called Steve clamoring to get a hold of one and I think I was like number 32 in line. I felt so lucky at the time because If you remember this was the grand-daddy of all paper launches, so I was really fortunate. Good times.

 

[arthur_tuxedo]

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/591/13/

the 3850 draws 96w at idle, and 195 under full load. other reviews put it around 100-120w at idle, and 180-210 under load.

That's for the whole system, not the GPU.

 

[another-user]

Yeah, I think that's probably the most money I ever spent for a video card ever.

You mentioned the X800 Pro, I also picked up a X800XT-PE when they first hit and I believe it was around $450 at the time. Think I was one of the first few to get one as well since I got a hold of mine from CompUSA's Business Dept. These cards were nowhere to be found, even CompUSA's Retail Side didn't have any but this one Business Sales Rep had about 50 for some reason. So, that night I had good timing for once and saw his number posted on a Forum by someone. I think everyone on the Forum called Steve clamoring to get a hold of one and I think I was like number 32 in line. I felt so lucky at the time because If you remember this was the grand-daddy of all paper launches, so I was really fortunate. Good times.

funny you should mention compusa. i picked up my x800pro the second it went on sale on their website. they had a huge screw up that placed every video card on sale for 20% off that same weekend it launched. by sunday they pulled the sale.

That's for the whole system, not the GPU.

you are correct, i miss read that. i had to do some digging but 95w is actually what the card its self uses at peak power.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I had a friend still using AGP a while back. I stabbed him in the back and wrote on his tombstone "AGP is dead and now so are you"

 

[honestjohn]

I had a friend still using AGP a while back. I stabbed him in the back and wrote on his tombstone "AGP is dead and now so are you"

I really hope you didn't stay awake until 3:39am just to think that one up.

 

[evolucion8]

Funny that I paid over 470 bucks without shipping for the Sapphire X800XT on the now dead Monarch Computer Etailer. And then I paid 320 for the current card when it was launched, hope technology gets cheaper everytime.