WHS for HTPC

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Kaash

Limp Gawd
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Aug 17, 2006
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What is the pro / cons etc to purchasing the HP Mediasmart Server to store / stream movies and tv shows to my HTPC and any other "Extender" vs building your own WHS system?

I have a Spare PC in the living room that i was using to rip my dvd too but after researching more on WMC i wanted to do a central storage and stream to 360, ps3 laptop other desktop etc. Was also thinking of turning the spare PC into the WHS but i think power usage will be to high. it currently has a corsair 1000hx powersupply in the case. If you need more info just ask and i'll try to dig what you need up. Also newegg FINALLY has the 3TB drives out, not to expensive i think at 229 with the HP mediasmart i can just plug these in and get up to 16TB..if i had that much spare cash on hand lol. Thanks in advance


v/r
Kaash
 
Well, HP is discontinuing the Media Smart line and has no plans to upgrade to Vail (also known as Fail). MS is removing one of the best features of WHS, Drive Extender which is the program that takes several hard drives into one storage pool.

So yeah, there you go. The Media Smart line is pretty awesome and WHS v1 is too but Vail is looking to be a train wreck.
 
having a 1000W PSU doesn't necessarily mean that power usage will be too high. Remember that the PSU will only output the amount of power that the PC needs at the time. So what are the specs of the rest of the PC like?

WHS Vail notwithstanding, the key con to the HP MSS is that it's a bit limited in terms of expansio compared to a DIY WHS server setup. A max of 4 drives internally with one of thse drives being reserved for the OS install. Not to mention that support for 3TB drives with those devices is still unknown. A DIY setup can easily be expanded to as many drives possible within budget and case limitations.

However the big pro about the MSS is that it's even more simple and easy to use than a normal WHS setup, has a quite a few multi-media functions (iTunes server support, TIVO support, and things of that nature) and hot-swap capability. Ihey're also rather small and relatively quiet during use.
 
Case: ThermalTake Armor Full ATX
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe, 1 of the sata ports up near the CPU area is broken off
CPU: C2Quad Q6600 @2.4Ghz
Ram: 4GB DDR2
Sound: onboard sound card. using Fiber Optics to a Sony Bravia 5disk dvd 5.1 surround sound system. but the door to the Fiber Optics is broken off so the cable kinda just hangs there, will like to get a cheapo sound card for a new fiber optics output since i wont need the DAC in the card.
GPU: Nvidia Geforce 9600GT can't remember how much ram on board probably 1GB
Power: Corsair 1000HX
DVD: Plexor dvd/RW dont remember speeds.

Cable Managment on this case is a pain in the arse. it can hold 3 drives in the upper rear of the case and 3 or 4 more in the front bottom. I have 0 knowledge of DE or raid hince why i was looking at the HP. just plug in the drives and let it rip. If i make this PC my WHS machine how does the xbox360 or other WMC play formates like x264, h.264, mkv, etc i know iso work fine and mpeg2. SO much more info i need to research. I JUST!! learned about metadata to get the artwork to show on the movies. but there like 1000 different programs i still gotta find out which one to get. ATM i was toying with My Movie database.
 
I have a HP Mediasmart WHS and it works very well. Just be aware that if your PSU ever dies (like mine did) that you'll either have to take it up the A buying a PSU that can fit or you'll have to go the DIY route and re-pin a PSU (not fun). If I had to do it again, I would have built my own so that I could easily replace defunct parts.
 
DE = Drive Extender. That comes with EVERY WHS setup out there, regardless if it is a DIY build or that MSS setup. No need to use RAID with WHS besides a RAID 1 array for the OS drive.

Anyway, if you were to do a DIY WHS setup with that spare PC, were you planning on using it as a HTPC as well? If so, not a good idea at all. It's pretty much a consensus that you should not combine the HTPC and file server together. More reading about that here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1419906

An installation of a handful of codecs (not codec packs but individual codecs) is actually enough to let WMC to play back x264, h.264, MKV files, etc.However the 360 is gonna be a PITA in regards to those mentioned formats. Basically, Microsoft has willingly crippled 360's support for MKV files and certain h.264 and x264 content. So the 360 may not playback all MKV files. However DivX does have something for that:
http://support.divx.com/faq/view/supportFAQen107/video_tutorials_-_other?id=6

Just note: I have not tried it myself so I cannot vouch for it.
 
I would not purchase a HP WHS since it is discontinued and they will eventual run out of parts for it.

Acer and some others are continuing (for now) and would be better for future support, since these do not accept normal DIY parts such as PSUs.
 
Yea i was NOT going to use the WHS as the HTPC but just a centralize area to stream to the many many many devices in the house. Okay so 360 = PITA but is there a way to have the server transcode my h.264, x264 and whatever weird file extensions i have to a formate the 360 could read...with real time streaming / transcoding, dont want to sit there waiting for it to buffer / finish doing its thing when i want to watch something
 
Danny Bui said:
DE = Drive Extender. That comes with EVERY WHS setup out there, regardless if it is a DIY build or that MSS setup. No need to use RAID with WHS besides a RAID 1 array for the OS drive.

Anyway, if you were to do a DIY WHS setup with that spare PC, were you planning on using it as a HTPC as well? If so, not a good idea at all. It's pretty much a consensus that you should not combine the HTPC and file server together. More reading about that here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1419906

An installation of a handful of codecs (not codec packs but individual codecs) is actually enough to let WMC to play back x264, h.264, MKV files, etc.However the 360 is gonna be a PITA in regards to those mentioned formats. Basically, Microsoft has willingly crippled 360's support for MKV files and certain h.264 and x264 content. So the 360 may not playback all MKV files. However DivX does have something for that:
http://support.divx.com/faq/view/supportFAQen107/video_tutorials_-_other?id=6

Just note: I have not tried it myself so I cannot vouch for it.
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So Danny since they are nixing support for Drive Extender support for WHS is it still worth using? I mean wasn't that one of the biggest selling points of WHS?

I remember in my HTPC thread you recommended building a WHS setup and I've got all the parts except the case (that Cooler Master never stays in stock longer than a few hours and I can't find it anywhere else on the web) so should me and the OP consider a different storage based OS?
 
I'm researching alternative OS's. atm i'm looking at Ubuntu since its free but i never toyed around with a linux OS. also need a server program like mediatomb but it only works with ps3 not xbmc. I just want a server where i just shared the dang files and turn on WMC or my 360 or my ps3 and it sees it. also all players have default codex to be able to play EVERY formate is that soo much to ask for?
 
Kaash said:
also all players have default codex to be able to play EVERY formate is that soo much to ask for?
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You're trying to use a 360 so yes, it is.

If you've never used Linux, building a server with it isn't a smart idea at all.
 
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Kaash said:
Building a server with ubuntu is NOT a smart idea??
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If you've never used it before and have (nearly) zero experience with it....

Hey, have you ever used OS X before? How about getting a Mini and using that for your server! You only have to figure out how file sharing and media streaming to a console works, easy as pie! /sarcasm
 
There are many ways to decide this and it all depends on your priorities. First of all there are some functions in WHS which are basically impossible to duplicate.

- client pc backups (automatic, nothing to setup or configure)
- drive extender

So if you don't see your storage needs expanding, its a fairly reliable box but its being discontinued.

If you build your own server, depending on your expertise you can do anything. e.g. you can just run Windows on it, share drives, run any program you want and for most people its very simple and familiar. You can move on to Windows Server if you wish and get it for free too. Your hw is powerful enough to run VM's too if you choose to. I would not install WHS onto your hardware since its a very old OS today.

Any modern OS can serve up files and do a bunch of other things with no problems. It all depends on what else you want to do, how easy it is etc. Since your needs are HTPC, you can setup both XBMC and MediaBrowser to pool shares and treat them as one, so this lets you have e.g \movies on different drives. This helps you replace that part of DE.

You can learn Linux if you want, but why do you want to?
 
Godmachine said:
So Danny since they are nixing support for Drive Extender support for WHS is it still worth using? I mean wasn't that one of the biggest selling points of WHS?

I remember in my HTPC thread you recommended building a WHS setup and I've got all the parts except the case (that Cooler Master never stays in stock longer than a few hours and I can't find it anywhere else on the web) so should me and the OP consider a different storage based OS?
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WHS v1 still has Drive Extender. It's WHS Vail, the latest iteration of WHS, that does not have DE. If the features for WHS v1 still appeals to you, I still recommend going with WHS.

If you want to use a different storage based OS, I highly highly recommend doing very extensive testing with that new OS before you put any critical data on it. WHS was so well recommended because it simply worked most of the time. Unfortunately that's not the case with other file storage OSes if you have zero experience with BSD or Linux. Some of those file storage OSes are better than WHS in some aspects but they require some learning of and experience with Linux or BSD.

Danny Bui said:
Just want to point this out: if you're thinking about FreeBSD, then I highly recommend reading up on these links on ZFS:
Building your own ZFS fileserver
FreeBSD ZFS NAS Web-GUI

If you switch to FreeBSD + ZFS, you can ditch the true hardware RAID card since one isn't really needed for FreeBSD + ZFS RAID. In fact, I would only recommend the true hardware RAID route if you're using a Windows based OS. Most of the time you can get pretty good performance as well as reliability using Linux MDADM RAID or FreeBSD + ZFS RAID.

A few other options that don't require a true Hardware RAID card:
Archer75 said:
Some alternatives for those who are interested, perhaps we can start pooling info on the closest replacements for WHS that offer drive pooling and the ability to use drives of any size.

greyhole in amahi: http://wiki.amahi.org/index.php/Greyhole
http://code.google.com/p/greyhole/
http://www.amahi.org/

Flexraid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlexRAID
http://www.openegg.org/FlexRAID.curi

Unraid:
http://www.lime-technology.com/
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=UnRAID_Wiki
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

However some caveats with the above choices:
nitrobass24 said:
Greyhole is still very experimental and I would not put any data you like on it.
FlexRAID is a great idea, but until FlexRAID Live becomes available I dont see it being a very good option either.

UnRAID is just a software implementation of RAID4. It uses a dedicate parity disk that has to be larger than all of the data disks. Since you were considering WHS (JBOD) single drive performance may be all you need/want so this might be a good fit. The only problem with Unraid is the licensing scheme sucks $120 and you can only use up to 20 drives.

ZFS - Free, decent performance, good drive protection. BSD OS is difficult to use IMO (Im a Windows guy) You cannot expand arrays, you have to build a new array and add that to the drive pool. Its only free if your time is worthless.


Basically the conclusion I came to when VAIL still had DE was that past about 10 drives DE was not efficient with my storage, but i still wanted all the features VAIL had to offer. I opted for the RAID 6 route and pass 10TB volume to Vail (Vail supports GPT Disks natively). I add it to the storage pool but i turn off all duplication.
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Hopefully the above gives an idea of what to look for if WHS is no longer a viable option to you.

Kaash said:
I just want a server where i just shared the dang files and turn on WMC or my 360 or my ps3 and it sees it. also all players have default codex to be able to play EVERY formate is that soo much to ask for?
Click to expand...
Yes it is too much to ask for when it comes to the 360. For the WMC, simple. PS3, somewhat. Xbox 360? not really. Probably wouln't take more than a simple update to handle MKV content and such. But alas MS doesn't want to do that.
Kaash said:
I'm researching alternative OS's. atm i'm looking at Ubuntu since its free but i never toyed around with a linux OS. also need a server program like mediatomb but it only works with ps3 not xbmc.
.....
Building a server with ubuntu is NOT a smart idea??
Click to expand...

It's not a smart idea to trust an OS that you have not tested throughly with critical and probably irreplaceable data. As I mentioned above, if you want to Ubuntu, go for it. But only after you've really tested it, stressed it, messed around with it, and/or played around with for a long period of time to the point that you're reasonably comfortable with your capability to deal with any sort of Linux issues.
 
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Things to do: 1) So find a WHS Version 1.X 2) Dont upgrade to VAIL aka FAIL. 3) Move the desktop to be plug into the router.

Now can i use my Laptop an Gateway FX P-7805 as the HTPC.
OS: Win 7 home 64bit
RAM: 4GB DDR3
CPU: C2D P8400 2.26ghz
GPU: Geforce 9800M GTS 1GB memory.

Need to upgrade the drive to blueray or wait till i have funds to build a HTPC that looks like a receiver.

now when i'm ripping a DVD with My Movies Database on the laptop, can it save it to a network drive on the whs?
 
Don't forget though, a big limitation with WHS is that it can't handle advanced format drives. That totally throws your ability to use about half the 2TB out the window, and forget about the 3TB drives completely. I've been having the same issues myself, torn between the ever growing limitations of WHS and my complete lack of desire to ever work with linux again. MS just needs to figure out that DE didn't need all those new features that don't work (which led to its cancellation)... it just needed to be updated to work with new drives.
 
Activate: AMD said:
Don't forget though, a big limitation with WHS is that it can't handle advanced format drives. That totally throws your ability to use about half the 2TB out the window, and forget about the 3TB drives completely. I've been having the same issues myself, torn between the ever growing limitations of WHS and my complete lack of desire to ever work with linux again. MS just needs to figure out that DE didn't need all those new features that don't work (which led to its cancellation)... it just needed to be updated to work with new drives.
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What about these : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152245?

They don't really list if a drive is "advanced format" under stats on newegg. I bought these drives when there on sale would rather not find out I can't use them with WHS ..that would piss me off.

Edit : Looks like I found my own answer :
Advanced formating - actually ended up reformatting it to 64K blocks since used for large media-file storage. This is good for speed. Just make sure your OS can support it.
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Under user reviews ... great so now I have to return all 5 of these drives and find a 2TB drive that doesn't use advance formatting? How fucking frustrating.
 
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I'm not 100% on that, but its my current understanding. The WD 2TB EARS are also advanced format drives, but I believe they can be forced via jumper to emulate non-advanced formatting. This is why the older 2TB EADS versions actually cost more
 
I really need to go back to school and learn PC's all over again lol. Last time i studied was 02-03 so i'm way behind.

ZFS file server looks awsome but since its all command based can WMC still see it and be able to stream it to the PC? the HTPC will have codex to play the formats i have but what if i use the PS3 can I install software to transcode during the stream to the PS3 so it can read my library? The server machine only has 4GB ram DDR2, and i do not plan on adding any more to it that may hinder me once i get my storage capacity up. Also i have no idea how to use VM or to remote into another PC.
 
Godmachine said:
Under user reviews ... great so now I have to return all 5 of these drives and find a 2TB drive that doesn't use advance formatting? How fucking frustrating.
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Actually WHS will work with some of the Samsung Advanced Format drives:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1553557

Not exactly 100% but still quite usable.

Kaash said:
ZFS file server looks awsome but since its all command based can WMC still see it and be able to stream it to the PC? the HTPC will have codex to play the formats i have but what if i use the PS3 can I install software to transcode during the stream to the PS3 so it can read my library? The server machine only has 4GB ram DDR2, and i do not plan on adding any more to it that may hinder me once i get my storage capacity up. Also i have no idea how to use VM or to remote into another PC.
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Yes WMC can still see a server despite that server being all CLI based. Unforunately AFAIK, there is no transcoding software for the PS3 available for the OSes that ZFS is well supported on.

Virtual Machine FAQ here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1366895
 
Activate: AMD said:
I'm not 100% on that, but its my current understanding. The WD 2TB EARS are also advanced format drives, but I believe they can be forced via jumper to emulate non-advanced formatting. This is why the older 2TB EADS versions actually cost more
Click to expand...

Then what kind of drives do I need that are 2TB in size? I'm little lost and I don't wanna order the wrong kind again. The WD 2TB EARS do work via forced jumper , seems a lot of users have been doing this however its not a native so that makes me nervous about storing my back ups on it. I want as much reliability as possible.

And also you weren't incorrect : http://www.wegotserved.com/2010/08/26/microsoft-advise-advanced-format-drives-windows-home-server/

It is important to note that some hard disk manufacturers are releasing Advanced Format drives in the same base models as traditional 512 byte sector drives. Because of this, it is critical that you make sure that the drive you are purchasing is not an Advanced Format drive if you are running Windows Home Server v1. Before you purchase a disk drive, review the product specifications or visit the manufacturers Web site to ensure that the drive is compatible with Windows Home Server. Be aware that Advanced Format drives are not always clearly identified on the retail packaging.
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Edit: It also seems the Samsung's I ordered do have issues with WHS as well so looks like there isn't a way around this. However these : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148413&Tpk=LP ST32000542AS have been reported to work just fine with WHS. What a total pain in the ass this is turning out to be.
 
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Danny Bui said:
Actually WHS will work with some of the Samsung Advanced Format drives:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1553557

Not exactly 100% but still quite usable.
Click to expand...

Still it makes me nervous not having the drive natively seen by the OS without some kind pre-alignment causing a huge performance drop.

I would rather not take any chances. If I wasn't going to be backing up information to these drives then sure no problem I'll do that. But I just wanna be as safe as I can and not find out my drives somehow got corrupted down the line.
 
Godmachine said:
Still it makes me nervous not having the drive natively seen by the OS without some kind pre-alignment causing a huge performance drop.

I would rather not take any chances. If I wasn't going to be backing up information to these drives then sure no problem I'll do that. But I just wanna be as safe as I can and not find out my drives somehow got corrupted down the line.
Click to expand...

Ok, it's your data so do what you will to secure it. However I wouldn't say it's a huge performance drop or anything.
 
Godmachine said:
I do appreciate the information though Danny , just playing the smart hand :cool:
Click to expand...

And you just reminded me that I have a Samsung F4EG HD 204UI sitting in my backup PC. Gonna put that in my WHS later this week and see what happens.
 
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