Why are mobile GPUs so popular?

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Peteman100

[H]ard|Gawd
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This might be a little taboo here.... but if you don't game/CAD on your laptop, why would you want one with a discrete GPU? IGPs are fast enough for video acceleration, UI acceleration and are far more power efficient. Am I missing something?
 
You are absolutely correct, and that's why i5 is going to be a major success.
 
You're right, if you don't do anything that would need any kind of graphics power, you don't need it. But it's nice to have the option if you want and it's not like there is a huge price difference between the two.
 
Danevin said:
You're right, if you don't do anything that would need any kind of graphics power, you don't need it. But it's nice to have the option if you want and it's not like there is a huge price difference between the two.
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But it adds to the complexity and size/weight (cooling), both of which are undesireable
 
Peteman100 said:
But it adds to the complexity and size/weight (cooling), both of which are undesireable
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Sure, but my opinion is that most people are casual gamers, and they'd like to play games that at least play moderately okay on their laptops while on the go. WoW or the likes, so...

I know I would enjoy having a discrete IGP because I am a gamer myself. Even though I reserve the heavy games for the desktop, I would like to play some older games on my laptop, so...
 
Peteman100 said:
But it adds to the complexity and size/weight (cooling), both of which are undesireable
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But that's your opinion, everything has a pro/con. There are tons of IGP solutions out there to buy, I am just saying that it is good to have options.

The weight difference is also very insignificant.
 
More seriously real discrete GPUs use more power at idle.

The only major use for them might be HD decoding; I know the new atom's GPU still sucks at this; but not how well the more mainstream intel IGPs do.
 
DanNeely said:
More seriously real discrete GPUs use more power at idle.

The only major use for them might be HD decoding; I know the new atom's GPU still sucks at this; but not how well the more mainstream intel IGPs do.
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The new Intel graphics built into Arrandale can decode two simultaneous 1080P sources
 
How well do C2D CULV laptops handle HD sources and (more importantly) HD Flash? Some of those thin-and-light models are very appealing, like ASUS UL-series, which is sold with and without a hybrid GPU setup from NV... Opting out of it saves you about $100 depending on the model.
 
Impulse said:
How well do C2D CULV laptops handle HD sources and (more importantly) HD Flash? Some of those thin-and-light models are very appealing, like ASUS UL-series, which is sold with and without a hybrid GPU setup from NV... Opting out of it saves you about $100 depending on the model.
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good question
 
I can tell you my netbook can actually handle 720p playback and even 1080p w/o any special codec if it's not heavily compressed (MPEG2 files transferred off my TiVo), obviously it'd choke on the same video file compressed into H.264 or w/e tho... But HD Flash seems to take a much bigger toll than any of that, even regular SD Flash video can hammer it pretty good. Hulu seems to take the biggest toll compared to other sites; can't be multi-tasking much while watching Hulu on a 720p HDTV or it drops frames.

I know w/discrete graphics any of those CULV laptops would fly thru any of that, and I know they can easily handle SD Flash video and probably 1080p rips as well... I'm just not very sure about HD Flash. Never really messed around with one of 'em much, but I've been urging my sister to get one as a replacement for her current system (she won't care about any of this one way or the other but I'm still curious).
 
Most of the time I'd take GPU power being available if needed over some extra battery life. I'm sure I'd feel different if I was a road warrior or something.

My wife's laptop has the Geforce 8400M in it. I stripped down the HDD and RAM to spend the cash on the GPU instead. Knowing she'd play some sims on it. She plays the Sims 3 sometimes on it now (and the Sims 2 in the years before that). It hasn't seen much gaming beyond that. But that was totally necessary. Whereas more battery life - not hugely needed. The laptop spends most of its time around the house in various places.
 
Impulse said:
I can tell you my netbook can actually handle 720p playback and even 1080p w/o any special codec if it's not heavily compressed (MPEG2 files transferred off my TiVo), obviously it'd choke on the same video file compressed into H.264 or w/e tho... But HD Flash seems to take a much bigger toll than any of that, even regular SD Flash video can hammer it pretty good. Hulu seems to take the biggest toll compared to other sites; can't be multi-tasking much while watching Hulu on a 720p HDTV or it drops frames.

I know w/discrete graphics any of those CULV laptops would fly thru any of that, and I know they can easily handle SD Flash video and probably 1080p rips as well... I'm just not very sure about HD Flash. Never really messed around with one of 'em much, but I've been urging my sister to get one as a replacement for her current system (she won't care about any of this one way or the other but I'm still curious).
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Unless you're running the newest beta, flash is still done entirely on the CPU. And even if you are, Intel's IGP will be supported as well in 10.1. I don't see flash as a compelling reason to get a GPU.
 
this question seems unusual, particularly for the masses in this forum.

You could make the same claim that the casual PC user doesn't need a discrete gpu on the desktop either. For most cases the people who do spend the money to get a discrete gpu on a laptop/desktop have intention of using it in some form. If they don't I don't see why they would be shelling out the extra bucks to get it. If you are in the [h]ardforum making tech purchases and not knowing what a discrete gpu is for then shame on you.
 
Peteman100 said:
Unless you're running the newest beta, flash is still done entirely on the CPU. And even if you are, Intel's IGP will be supported as well in 10.1. I don't see flash as a compelling reason to get a GPU.
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You may not see it as a compelling reason, but others do... I'm not sure why you perceive this as some sort of mystery. There are plenty of people out there who'll opt for the discrete GPU either for gaming or for HD/Flash decoding, there's probably a few other people that intend to run some other type of GPU-accelerated stuff on their laptops but they're probably a smaller minority still (unfortunately for NVidia).

Personally I don't do any gaming on my laptops either (beyond very light stuff like World of Goo, etc.), but I'd totally shell out a couple extra bucks for better video or Flash decoding on a discrete GPU IF it doesn't come at the expense of battery life (switchable/hybrid setup)... Others would put that ahead of battery life. Everyone has their own priorities and needs, there'll never be a perfect laptop for everyone.
 
I have a dedicated graphics card in this 4 year old laptop. Thank god I opted to get it because I would be unable to watch movies full screen or just hulu full screen without lag. Not to mention I can run Left 4 Dead 2 perfectly fine :).

I am seriously considering getting a netbook but holding back right now, until I can at least play 2-3 year old games and full screen video without any shuttering. I am hearing the next gen netbooks will have a nice boost in graphics.

I hear the next gen Intel Pineview is going to be nice. I may settle on getting that when they come down in price toward the end of this year and start of next year. Nvidia is also coming out with a new gen of ion graphics... So I am patiently waiting to see which option has the best graphics performance. I can then hand down this older power hog laptop to my girl friend and enjoy; surfing the web, watching moves, playing games on a small light laptop. I have my desktop to fill in any other gaps.
 
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The thing is this: Some people do not like the thought of possibly rplacing their entire computer if they decide to use a certain app, thus they get something that can suck at it, but still do it.
 
Impulse said:
You may not see it as a compelling reason, but others do... I'm not sure why you perceive this as some sort of mystery. There are plenty of people out there who'll opt for the discrete GPU either for gaming or for HD/Flash decoding, there's probably a few other people that intend to run some other type of GPU-accelerated stuff on their laptops but they're probably a smaller minority still (unfortunately for NVidia).

Personally I don't do any gaming on my laptops either (beyond very light stuff like World of Goo, etc.), but I'd totally shell out a couple extra bucks for better video or Flash decoding on a discrete GPU IF it doesn't come at the expense of battery life (switchable/hybrid setup)... Others would put that ahead of battery life. Everyone has their own priorities and needs, there'll never be a perfect laptop for everyone.
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I don't think you understand what I said. A discrete GPU won't help decode flash or video any better than an IGP. Intel's new "HD" IGP will be able to accelerate both flash and full 1080P video without an issue. So for those two cases, you are paying more money for no improvement.

Which leads to my original question. What's the big deal? Seems like most high-end laptops come with one by default (examples including Sony Z, HP Envy 13, some Thinkpad T-series, 13" MBP). But none have a GPU which is actually powerful enough to play newer games. So why include them in the first place?
 
A discrete GPU WILL help you decode Flash (with 10.1) and HD video much better than Intel's existing IGPs... Intel's existing IGP (those married to netbooks particularly, and even some CULV laptops) are still not working nearly as well as other mobile GPUs in that regard.

Yeah, if you're getting a new Arrandale laptop than a discrete GPU doesn't make sense just for video viewing, but as I and others said, that's not the only reason out there for a discrete GPU either. Some people don't mind playing older games or playing at minimum settings, a lot just want their WoW fix (don't need a lot of GPU for that), etc.
 
because not everyone who plays via laptop intends to play the newest games out there.

I tried playing DotA on an intel IGP and it would lag during big fights. And that is a really old old game. So again, common sense should answer your question.
 
mustang_steve said:
The thing is this: Some people do not like the thought of possibly rplacing their entire computer if they decide to use a certain app, thus they get something that can suck at it, but still do it.
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You hit the head on the nail with what you said. This is the reason why I will stay away from any low power IGP notebook/netbook. When I purchase a notebook/netbook I expect at least 3-4 years of use from it. Not having a robust graphics processor is a big mistake; Movies, Youtube, Flash, Games, Apps, Windows 7, etc. all have various relied uses of the graphics processor.
 
Any Atom netbook = GMA950/GMA3150 (same things, except for faster clocks, and a minor OpenGL support bump).

Some CULV systems (none under 11") = MAY have X4500M... X4500MHD IF lucky.

The X4500M can accelerate Flash 10.1, but not very well.

The X4500MHD can accelerate H.264, VC1. (and flash 10.1)

The GMA950/3150 can display office tasks, and "Spider Solitare" and Halo 1.

That's it. The GMA950/3150 cannot do smack, and barely has any MPEG2 support (not that it's useful - even on an Atom system).
 
The future is looking good for small laptop/netbooks with ample graphics power for a good price. The new ASUS Eee PC 1201N can actually run some newer game titles with frame rates close to 30fps. There is also things like the ASUS UL80Vt-A1 which is a little step up in size (but big gain in power). I will be looking forward to a new laptop/netbook in the 11"-14" range.
 
I haven't had any trouble playing a myriad of MPEG2 stuff on my year old netbook... From 480p DVD rips, to 480i thru 720p and 1080i DVR recordings (TiVo, they wrap some DRM around what's essentially an MPEG2 file when you transfer recordings to your PC, it's very easy to strip).

I really like that ASUS UL80Vt, been recommending it to my sister as her next system... Personally I'd like something closer to 12" (13" tops)... The UL20 lacks HDMI out and doesn't have the same great 8-cell battery the rest of the UL series does IIRC tho. It's not available w/the great hybrid graphics setup of the UL80Vt either, AFAIK, altho it does come w/4500MHD. The UL30 looks great, tho a lil' pricey (costing almost the same as the UL80). Nice little systems, certainly not cheap tho (compared to netbooks anyway).`
 
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Impulse said:
I haven't had any trouble playing a myriad of MPEG2 stuff on my year old netbook... From 480p DVD rips, to 480i thru 720p and 1080i DVR recordings (TiVo, they wrap some DRM around what's essentially an MPEG2 file when you transfer recordings to your PC, it's very easy to strip).

I really like that ASUS UL80Vt, been recommending it to my sister as her next system... Personally I'd like something closer to 12" (13" tops)... The UL20 lacks HDMI out and doesn't have the same great 8-cell battery the rest of the UL series does IIRC tho. It's not available w/the great hybrid graphics setup of the UL80Vt either, AFAIK, altho it does come w/4500MHD. The UL30 looks great, tho a lil' pricey (costing almost the same as the UL80). Nice little systems, certainly not cheap tho (compared to netbooks anyway).`
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I am just waiting for the prices to drop now. Asus UL80, UL30, and even ASUS Eee PC 1201N are there for what I want already. I am sure toward the end of the year we will see a UL30 type laptop/netbook selling for $400-500 range.
 
Deluded said:
Sure, but my opinion is that most people are casual gamers, and they'd like to play games that at least play moderately okay on their laptops while on the go. WoW or the likes, so...

I know I would enjoy having a discrete IGP because I am a gamer myself. Even though I reserve the heavy games for the desktop, I would like to play some older games on my laptop, so...
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What he said. I don't watch much video on my laptop, so the decoding acceleration is unimportant. On the other hand, the intel GM965 in it struggles mightily with WoW on the lowest settings, and that has been quite annoying at times.

What I currently want is a thinkpad T400 with switchable graphics. Intel cheapness for decent battery life, radeon chip for some gaming (on wall power) when I'm not at home. Shame it's not available in the otherwise very attractive (but expensive) T400s. :)

edit: Hmm, the T410 was just released, with switchable graphics only in the T410s. Interesting reversal. Shame I can only find prices in dollars so far, but I'm afraid the price will be downright unpleasant when it makes it over here.
 
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