Why everybody bashed ATi?

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Cannibal Corpse

Cannibal Corpse

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Because its X800 runs DOOM3 less "impressive" than nVIDIA's latest offering?

And who says they won't incorporate PS 3.0 in their future VPUs?
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Because its X800 runs DOOM3 less "impressive" than nVIDIA's latest offering?

And who says they won't incorporate PS 3.0 in their future VPUs?
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Because they can.

less "impressive" is an understatement, more like "beats the shit out of"

and the argument of PS3.0 in the future is laughable, since they are having a hard time getting their flagship to market right now.
 
I don't think Ati is getting bashed any more or harder than Nvidia did with the FX...probably less. Anybody with a brain can see that the X800pro is a decent card but it's just in the wrong price bracket..it should be competeing with the 6800nu instead of the GT.
 
Because they said that the XT-PE should be out the 21 May, and no it is going to be Fall before we see it in most shops.
 
What's funny is everyone seems to forget just because ATi doesn't support PS 3, doesn't mean ATi isn't going to get the benefits of PS3 being turned on, because PS2b gets turned on too. So it's not like it just gets "smoked" and left behind.
 
"turned on"? to "turn on" PS3.0 in a video card takes an extra 60-some million transistors, which don't happen to be on the x800's.
 
and lets not forget how horrid there linux drivers are... as a linux gamer, this is what caused me to sell my 9800 pro and put back my ti4200 back in....
 
creedAMD said:
that test is just is just for hardware compatibility, it was never meant to be used as a symbol of performance, I thought this was widely known?
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hey you can call it what you want, i see a pretty bar graph with numbers and video cards. which is just like other pretty bar graphs with numbers and video cards that nvidia users embrace
 
milling_hordesman said:
"turned on"? to "turn on" PS3.0 in a video card takes an extra 60-some million transistors, which don't happen to be on the x800's.
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No i'm not talking about x800 cards having PS3 support
x800 cards have PS 2b support

When a game is programmed for PS3, PS2B also gets activated
 
Netrat33 said:
No i'm not talking about x800 cards having PS3 support
x800 cards have PS 2b support

When a game is programmed for PS3, PS2B also gets activated
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oh, right, sorry about the misunderstanding; i thought you had meant the card supporting it, not the game.
 
a lot of what the nv40 can do the r420 can do

take for example hardware vertex Instancing, here we thought only the NV40 could do it, but lo and behold, so can the R420 ;)

the R420 also has a facing register, just like the NV40 which is a PS 3.0 thing ;)

the ONLY example of anything we have seen that seperates them apart IQ wise is HDR using NV40's FP16 frame buffer blending, which is NOT, i repeat NOT a SM 3.0 feature, that has nothing to do with SM 3.0

the NV40 might have an advantage with dynamic looping and branching, (R420 has static branching), but we have yet to see any advantage of this in any game
 
You must have missed when this forum was bash-nvidia-central for almost 2 years. LOL
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Because its X800 runs DOOM3 less "impressive" than nVIDIA's latest offering?

And who says they won't incorporate PS 3.0 in their future VPUs?
Click to expand...


Its a general trend they will do it but how successful will they be, with the problems they are having now its going to be more previlent later with the increased die size. If they drop microns they have to go to .9 to use low k, there is alot to concider on ATi's part. nV they will do what they allways do, add a couple features here and there, and revamp thier architecture. What ati has been doing for the last 2 years...
 
Brent_Justice said:
a lot of what the nv40 can do the r420 can do

take for example hardware vertex Instancing, here we thought only the NV40 could do it, but lo and behold, so can the R420 ;)

the R420 also has a facing register, just like the NV40 which is a PS 3.0 thing ;)

the ONLY example of anything we have seen that seperates them apart IQ wise is HDR using NV40's FP16 frame buffer blending, which is NOT, i repeat NOT a SM 3.0 feature, that has nothing to do with SM 3.0

the NV40 might have an advantage with dynamic looping and branching, (R420 has static branching), but we have yet to see any advantage of this in any game
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Great response Brent. Clear and to the point. Too bad it will be ignored by most.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Great response Brent. Clear and to the point. Too bad it will be ignored by most.
Click to expand...

The next IQ change will be true displacment where ya need the texture look up in a vertex shader which is an SM 3.0 feature but we need 512 mb cards for that, should be seeing them in the next refresh.
 
I think ATi are doing very well. Their R420 is a fantastic performer and business seems good for them. I don't see much to bash really, even their OpenGL drivers aren't *that* bad. :)
 
coz said:
I think ATi are doing very well. Their R420 is a fantastic performer and business seems good for them. I don't see much to bash really, even their OpenGL drivers aren't *that* bad. :)
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Well compared to thier Dx drivers one could wish for more ;)
 
pxc said:
You must have missed when this forum was bash-nvidia-central for almost 2 years. LOL
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Lol...yeah, it got so bad that even die hard Nvidiots were turning their buttcheeks to their favorite company and jumping ship. I've seen a lot of fanATIcs turn to the 6800 GT/Ultra but that was simply because the X800XTPE was too hard to find and the next step down (X800pro) didn't offer a good price/performance ratio..

I have a GT but I still say that if Ati gets more XTPE's into retail and lowers the price of the X800pro to at least somewhere between the 6800nu and GT ($350ish?) they will have a strong competetive lineup. Concentrating on oem's with the pci-e is kind of alienating the enthusiast at the moment..
 
rancor said:
The next IQ change will be true displacment where ya need the texture look up in a vertex shader which is an SM 3.0 feature but we need 512 mb cards for that, should be seeing them in the next refresh.
Click to expand...

i dont think we will see any true displacement mapping in any games till at least 2006

even the demo of the Unreal Engine 3 shown was only using Parrallax Mapping
 
Brent_Justice said:
i dont think we will see any true displacement mapping in any games till at least 2006

even the demo of the Unreal Engine 3 shown was only using Parrallax Mapping
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Thats true but then again its just a shader, if the Unreal 3 engine works fine on the gf 6 this gen, It shouldn't have a problem in adding in tesselation for the revision cards.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Great response Brent. Clear and to the point. Too bad it will be ignored by most.
Click to expand...

I'm not ignoring it...I know that 2.0b has been shown to do the same things as 3.0 in farcry minus HDR...that isn't really the point...

ATi is getting bashed because they released the 12-pipe Pro at $400 which gets soundly beaten by the 6800GT...and then they released the XTPE, which looks to be the faster of the new cards...but they failed to get it to market...

The Pro is a nice card...but when you stack it up to the GT is has a hell of a lot less features (whether you consider them important or not) and it's just plain slower...

So people are upset with ATi because they haven't given anyone a good reason to buy thier cards this generation...the XTPE is MIA and the Pro is slower than the GT...so why would you buy ATi?

Basically, whether it was intentional or not, ATi launched the Pro to go against nvidia's new cards, and then the XTPE is thier fall refresh...
 
rancor said:
Thats true but then again its just a shader, if the Unreal 3 engine works fine on the gf 6 this gen, It shouldn't have a problem in adding in tesselation for the revision cards.
Click to expand...

and since a game using that engine won't be out till at least 2006, my post still stands, i don't think we'll see any games using it until at least 2006 ;)

nvidia and ati will have new generation cards by then
 
Brent_Justice said:
and since a game using that engine won't be out till at least 2006, my post still stands, i don't think we'll see any games using it until at least 2006 ;)

nvidia and ati will have new generation cards by then
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Thats true hehe, but we don't know what others are doing ;)
 
Brent_Justice said:
i dont think we will see any true displacement mapping in any games till at least 2006

even the demo of the Unreal Engine 3 shown was only using Parrallax Mapping
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you...a lot of the features in the 6800s won't be exposed until later...but since the GT is faster than the Pro without even using any of these new features, it doesn't really matter...you buy the GT and you get a faster card that has all kinds of features you might one day get some use out of...it's like a bonus...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I'm not ignoring it...I know that 2.0b has been shown to do the same things as 3.0 in farcry minus HDR...that isn't really the point...

ATi is getting bashed because they released the 12-pipe Pro at $400 which gets soundly beaten by the 6800GT...and then they released the XTPE, which looks to be the faster of the new cards...but they failed to get it to market...

The Pro is a nice card...but when you stack it up to the GT is has a hell of a lot less features (whether you consider them important or not) and it's just plain slower...

So people are upset with ATi because they haven't given anyone a good reason to buy thier cards this generation...the XTPE is MIA and the Pro is slower than the GT...so why would you buy ATi?

Basically, whether it was intentional or not, ATi launched the Pro to go against nvidia's new cards, and then the XTPE is thier fall refresh...
Click to expand...

funny, in my game testing i am not finding the 6800GT walking all over the X800Pro

in fact, games seem to be going back and forth as to which one is faster on

they are pretty neck and neck right now
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I totally agree with you...a lot of the features in the 6800s won't be exposed until later...but since the GT is faster than the Pro without even using any of these new features, it doesn't really matter...you buy the GT and you get a faster card that has all kinds of features you might one day get some use out of...it's like a bonus...
Click to expand...

i just don't agree with you, in some games the x800pro is faster, in some games the 6800gt is faster

but overall when you look at it they are very close in performance, both provide almost the same level of game quality settings to play smoothly at
 
If I was ATI and could start rolling out the XT's
I would make them 399 drop the Pro to 299...

It would be GG nvidia..YOU lose....
 
It's just a power shift...everyone turned on nVidia when ATi came out with the 9000 series, how it performed so much better in DX9 than nVidia's FX line...I respect both copmpanies, and have shifted from both when the other offered a superior product.

IMO, nVidia just outclassed ATi this round.
 
Brent_Justice said:
funny, in my game testing i am not finding the 6800GT walking all over the X800Pro

in fact, games seem to be going back and forth as to which one is faster on

they are pretty neck and neck right now
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Ok so let's assume they are neck and neck in all games, except Doom3 where the Pro gets beaten by a wide margin...so the GT is still the better deal...even if you want to look at it via the most conservative means possible...the GT is a better card than the Pro...maybe it's not light years beyond it...but it's still better, so given the option you'd buy the GT over the Pro right?
 
I hardly think ATI is getting bashed, no one is saying that the X800 series is a POS or anything like that (their drivers are something different though). What I do see is a small hand full of ATI "supporters" that take anything that could be construed as critical of ATI and start flaming the poster of anyone that disagrees.

The fact is both cards are great but ATI has some problems getting their XTPE out the door, I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't want to want for something that could be outdated by the time it hits shelves in real numbers.

The feature thing doesn't matter until devs start programing for it.

Anyone remember the FX series? :rolleyes: Quite crying over spilled milk.
 
theelviscerator said:
If I was ATI and could start rolling out the XT's
I would make them 399 drop the Pro to 299...

It would be GG nvidia..YOU lose....
Click to expand...

Too bad you're not ATi...at 399 I'd buy an XTPE in a heartbeat...
 
theelviscerator said:
If I was ATI and could start rolling out the XT's
I would make them 399 drop the Pro to 299...

It would be GG nvidia..YOU lose....
Click to expand...

That's probably what they are going to do (with respect to the x800 pro, they'll just introduce the x800 xt @ the $399 price point and keep the x800 xt PE at $499) when they introduce their fall refresher part which I think will be a higher clocked X800 XT with 512MB memory.
 
Brent_Justice said:
i just don't agree with you, in some games the x800pro is faster, in some games the 6800gt is faster

but overall when you look at it they are very close in performance, both provide almost the same level of game quality settings to play smoothly at
Click to expand...

I see the same things. Both of those cards seem pretty neck and neck in the races.
Yes yes we know, Doom 3 it does better. But overall not much in other games.
 
gordon151 said:
That's probably what they are going to do when they introduce their fall refresher part which I think will be a higher clocked X800 XT with 512MB memory.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine them eeking out much more speed than they currently are...they aren't moving to a new process right? Hell the thing is fast enough already, all they have to do is get it to market...

512MB might happen though...that would be pretty cool...probably overly expensive though...the card is already $500...double the memory and what then $700?
 
gordon151 said:
That's probably what they are going to do (with respect to the x800 pro, they'll just introduce the x800 xt @ the $399 price point and keep the x800 xt PE at $499) when they introduce their fall refresher part which I think will be a higher clocked X800 XT with 512MB memory.
Click to expand...


Good luck for ATi if they have this many problems with availablity, putting another card in there won't help. If so they would have done it right now.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I can't imagine them eeking out much more speed than they currently are...they aren't moving to a new process right? Hell the thing is fast enough already, all they have to do is get it to market...
Click to expand...
If they're upping the speed then they're shotting themselves in the foot since they can't even get them to market in descent numbers now.
 
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