Why isn't there a perfect 24 inch LCD?

C

CastorTroy

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Jul 29, 2005
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I am looking for a 24" lcd monitor and it seems like every one I look at has a significant flaw that stops me from buying it. A few examples are the Dell 2407WFP-HC (ghosting), BenQ FP241VW (overscan issue), Samsung 245T (ghosting and uneven backlight).

Surely these companies, especially Samsung, are capable of releasing something that has no major flaw, so why don't they? Also, why can't companies like BenQ release update firmware in North America to fix their products flaws when possible?

Will we be seeing a Dell 2408WFP any time soon that fixes the 2407WFP-HC's problems? Anyone have any other monitor suggestions?
 
I was just about to make a new posting asking for recommendations on a 24"-30" monitor. I have looked at all three that you mention here and ran into the exact same dilemma. The money is just too much to spend to make a poor decision. I am a gamer so ghosting will be an issue for me. I would also like one with multiple high end inputs, like a couple DVI or a DVI and HDMI would be fine. Don't these companies use their own products? You would think they would know what needed to go into a great monitor. What do you guys currently consider the best option in the 24" category and the 24"-30" category (can choose the same)?
 
I just got the Benq 241VW and it works perfectly so far.. I use it to connect with my laptop through DVI and Xbox360 through HDMI. Both work flawlessly. No overscan issue using HDMI no matter I choose Aspect or 1:1 under 1080P. One thing to complain is the menu buttons on the left panel, which are a little bit tricky to operate. But I think I can live with it.
 
The was a a previous post on this forum where someone noticed that the new 360's with HDMI work properly with the Benq. I believe the overscan issue is still there if you connect it through component.
 
Well, there really isn't a general purpose LCD. You've either got to trade speed for color accuracy or vice versa. Or it seems there will be some trade off...

Hopefully OLED, when it's finally here, will be the new champ. CRT would be an answer, but those are getting harder to find...

You could also check out NEC's LCD offerings. (More expensive though...)
 
screamace said:
I just got the Benq 241VW and it works perfectly so far.. I use it to connect with my laptop through DVI and Xbox360 through HDMI. Both work flawlessly. No overscan issue using HDMI no matter I choose Aspect or 1:1 under 1080P. One thing to complain is the menu buttons on the left panel, which are a little bit tricky to operate. But I think I can live with it.
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What's the Manufacture Date?
What country did you purchase your monitor from?
What's the lot # of your Xbox 360 Elite?
 
negitoro7 said:
What's the Manufacture Date?
What country did you purchase your monitor from?
What's the lot # of your Xbox 360 Elite?
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I purchased from NCIXUS.com while they were under promotion for $650+shipping&insurance+no dead pixel warranty=$720 and it took 2 weeks to arrive. The manufacture date is March, 2007. I don't have a 360 elite, mine is the new pro edition with hdmi. ;)
 
There is a perfect one... but it has the flaw that it is attached to the imac.
 
screamace said:
I purchased from NCIXUS.com while they were under promotion for $650+shipping&insurance+no dead pixel warranty=$720 and it took 2 weeks to arrive. The manufacture date is March, 2007. I don't have a 360 elite, mine is the new pro edition with hdmi. ;)
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Thanks, that alleviates my concern somewhat. Although your newer Xbox might have a "fix" that my old Elite doesn't.
 
I feel your pain....

Researching this sector is the pits. I have resigned myself to only using brick and mortar sources so that I can at least return the monitor if something is wrong.

What I really want is a a 27 inch monitor with a resolution above 1900x1200 ....

LED solves some of the equation... I'll probably hold out and then go through this BS around February.
 
Maybe you are simply looking at wrong price class of them. All the mentioned stuff is in the medium price category for 24".
Try for example Nec 2490 or some Eizos they should be much closer to perfection.
 
Michaelius said:
Maybe you are simply looking at wrong price class of them. All the mentioned stuff is in the medium price category for 24".
Try for example Nec 2490 or some Eizos they should be much closer to perfection.
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if they would sell that fuckin 2490 in EU eh... :(
 
Stubwub said:
I'm sorry, a TN panel is not considered "perfect"
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I have a Gateway FHD2400 ($550) sitting right next to my $2,400 EIZO CG241W, and the Gateway monitor is not embarrassed by the EIZO. Neither monitor is "perfect", but both are very good. The EIZO is "more good" than the Gateway, but not four times more "good".

I too thought I would never buy a TN panel until I saw the FHD2400.

BTW, the FHD2400 replaced the wonderful S-IPS NEC 20WMGX2. Does the NEC have a better image? Perhaps, but not by much. Would I want to go back to 20 inches? Never
 
OK I will have a look at the NEC, but does it have any problems with input lag?

I don't think I will be happy with a TN panel for a monitor this size since the viewable angle is so bad. I have never looked at the Gateway, but for some reason I doubt that it will have the same level of color accuracy as a *VA panel.

Basically what I am looking for is a monitor that looks great, even if you are looking at it from a bit of an angle, and has little input lag and ghosting.
 
It sounds like the NEC would be perfect for you, then. VA monitors typically have the worst input lag. TN's usually have very little, and IPS has a bit more than TN. This of course varies from monitor to monitor, so you should try to find a hardware review that measures input lag if you can.

For color accuracy and viewing angle concerns, IPS is the only way to go.
 
Scyles said:
It sounds like the NEC would be perfect for you, then. VA monitors typically have the worst input lag. TN's usually have very little, and IPS has a bit more than TN. This of course varies from monitor to monitor, so you should try to find a hardware review that measures input lag if you can.

For color accuracy and viewing angle concerns, IPS is the only way to go.
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If I am not mistaken, the Samsung 275T (27") uses S-IPS panel and BenQ FP241W/WZ/VW uses A-MVA panel. I have both 275T and FP241WZ. In terms of color fidelity and viewing angles, FP241WZ beats 275T hands down. 275T is just too reddish and I have trouble adjusting the color to match my NEC CRT monitor. Also viewing angles are simply not that good. When staring right at center and close to the monitor, I notice color changes on both sides.
 
The Samsung is an S-PVA. S-PVA's suck because of the dark spot in the center. I hear A-MVA's are pretty good, but I haven't had a chance to use one myself.
 
Scyles said:
The Samsung is an S-PVA. S-PVA's suck because of the dark spot in the center. I hear A-MVA's are pretty good, but I haven't had a chance to use one myself.
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So which monitor uses IPS panel?
 
NEC 20wmgx2, NEC 2490, NEC 2690
Dell 2007 (lottery), Dell 3007
There are others, but these are some of the popular ones that are still easy to find.
 
RB30 said:
If I am not mistaken, the Samsung 275T (27") uses S-IPS panel and BenQ FP241W/WZ/VW uses A-MVA panel. I have both 275T and FP241WZ. In terms of color fidelity and viewing angles, FP241WZ beats 275T hands down. 275T is just too reddish and I have trouble adjusting the color to match my NEC CRT monitor. Also viewing angles are simply not that good. When staring right at center and close to the monitor, I notice color changes on both sides.
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/agree. Love the BenQ FP241W, I think it's an AU Optronics panel. I only use the DVI input from my PC for 1920x1200, or if I can't inch out the the fps maybe only 1600x1200 pillboxed.
 
Menelmarar said:
/agree. Love the BenQ FP241W, I think it's an AU Optronics panel. I only use the DVI input from my PC for 1920x1200, or if I can't inch out the the fps maybe only 1600x1200 pillboxed.
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I agree too. Many people complaining about FP241 for its non-PC gaming consoles and DVD players not displaying properly. For crying aloud, FP241 is built as a PC monitor and not at a TV. As long as FP241 can perform as a PC monitor perfectly via DVI then it is a perfect PC monitor. If people want to gaming consoles to display properly, get a TV. Mind you though, I notice Samsung, Sharp and Sony LCD HDTV do overscan a bit as well. Even the Sharp gaming monitor is advertised for PC plus gaming usage is not doing a good job at displaying PC signal.. Likewise, TV should be used for gaming console and DVD player and not PC usage.
 
RB30 said:
I agree too. Many people complaining about FP241 for its non-PC gaming consoles and DVD players not displaying properly. For crying aloud, FP241 is built as a PC monitor and not at a TV. As long as FP241 can perform as a PC monitor perfectly via DVI then it is a perfect PC monitor. If people want to gaming consoles to display properly, get a TV. Mind you though, I notice Samsung, Sharp and Sony LCD HDTV do overscan a bit as well. Even the Sharp gaming monitor is advertised for PC plus gaming usage is not doing a good job at displaying PC signal.. Likewise, TV should be used for gaming console and DVD player and not PC usage.
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Then why do they advertise, emphasize all the inputs the monitor has. If it was just a PC monitor it wouldn't have anything more than VGA and DVI.

You are also paying for the inputs too...
 
A13X said:
Umm. there is

its called the Gateway FHD2400

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2213483,00.asp
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HAH was about to post the same thing. This monitor is simply amazing. Yes IPS monitor have better colors but terrible ghosting on most of them.

This is a very new model feautring the higher quality 92% color gamut panel.
Putting this side by side on my NEC 19" 90gx2 i can see a definate increase in black level quality and that monitor used to be a black level king @ 700:1 ratio (for a TN panel). While the 2400 is a tested true 1000:1.

If your gaming you want a TN panel period.
Some people can deal with the ghosting I cannot.

Only major noticeable difference i recall was seeing lower quality bit rate videos being noticeably worse on the TN panels, i mean its just bad. However the decently coded videos / dvds look the same to me at least.
Also when comparing using photoshop and editting colors especially when you zoom in to see pixels you can tell the color is all sorts of odd (levels of color just dont seem to be true to life) on the TN panel.
The difference in quality between these IPS models and TN panels are not THAT much. Its not as much as say watching a football game on a standard definition tv and seeing the same channel on a 1080p tv. (Amazing)

Its more like cleaning your screen and its a little clearer lol thats as good as i can explain it even tho doesnt have much do with clarity but just color really.
 
I just don't care for TN panels. I easily notice color inconsistencies due to dithering, 92% gamut does nothing to change this. The vertical contrast shift due to the poor viewing angle is also a bother. The S-IPS panels I've used don't have any noticeable ghosting, and none of TN's drawbacks. I do openly admit that I'm quite picky when it comes to display quality.
 
Scyles said:
I just don't care for TN panels. I easily notice color inconsistencies due to dithering, 92% gamut does nothing to change this. The vertical contrast shift due to the poor viewing angle is also a bother. The S-IPS panels I've used don't have any noticeable ghosting, and none of TN's drawbacks. I do openly admit that I'm quite picky when it comes to display quality.
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Cost is also an issue. Price per value is important to some people. Perhaps you should consider why some people are using the Gateway or why they are not using an IPS panel before you needlessly diss them.
 
reductant said:
...before you needlessly diss them.
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Come on now, I wasn't even trying to be a jerk that time. I felt that a few of Inu's comments were a little off.
Yes IPS monitor have better colors but terrible ghosting on most of them.
If your gaming you want a TN panel period.
The difference in quality between these IPS models and TN panels are not THAT much.
Its more like cleaning your screen and its a little clearer
Click to expand...

Its more convenient to make a snarky comment than to point out the stuff I don't agree with.
 
Who here has the NEC 24"? I heard NEC just switched to the same type of screen as the Dell 2407, so instead of NEC's quality screen and low input lag, it now has the plaguing problem of inverse ghosting like my 2407 :(

God, I just want a 1920x1200 monitor for any price, just to have great colors, decent viewing angle, two DVI inputs and no ghosting/lag :<
 
Furious Salesman said:
Then why do they advertise, emphasize all the inputs the monitor has. If it was just a PC monitor it wouldn't have anything more than VGA and DVI.

You are also paying for the inputs too...
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. I consider other inputs as bonus - freebees that we are not paying extra for them. Those inputs are just a competitive edges that draw consumers to them. As long as the primary input which is DVI (e.g. FP241WZ) can accept all types of signals (PC or consoles) without any problem then I am happy. There is always DVI or HDMI switch (they are cheap now BTW, quality ones under $80) that we can use for multiple devices. Also, I won't bother worrying about the quality of analog inputs (component, VGA, S-video, composite) because analog signals don't do work with LCD monitors anyway. In the digital age, only digital inputs matter.
 
I guess I am going to go with the BenQ FP241W since it uses a MVA panel and not PVA like the FP241VW. The overscan issue sucks, but I hear that the new XBOX360's don't cause it so it is not a very big deal.

I just wish that there was something that didn't have any flaws...other than those inherited from the type of panel is uses.
 
CastorTroy said:
I guess I am going to go with the BenQ FP241W since it uses a MVA panel and not PVA like the FP241VW. The overscan issue sucks, but I hear that the new XBOX360's don't cause it so it is not a very big deal.

I just wish that there was something that didn't have any flaws...other than those inherited from the type of panel is uses.
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Isn't FP241VW also use A-MVA panel? All FP241W/WZ/VW should use the same AUO's A-MVA panel. FP241VW is the top of line FP241 series so it shouldn't use anything lesser than the other 2 models.
 
I think the VW is A-MVA and the other two are P-MVA. I'm not positive on that. A-MVA an improvement over P-MVA, offering better contrast and less color shifting. I haven't seen an A-MVA in person, but it sounds like A-MVA would be the best alternative to S-IPS.
 
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