Windows 10 Is A Free Upgrade For All 7 And 8.1 Users

[msny]

With the software now being free however that helps remove that part of the cost, so that just leaves the cost of testing software, and time to actually do the upgrade.

...then you agree, it will have a cost...

just leaves the cost of testing software, and time to actually do the upgrade

So we have 2,000 users many with legacy win XP program that work now.

Are you suggesting we take the time to upgrade then test our mission
critical software, and hope it works?

That will never happen, unless MS can assure us all our programs are
compatible going forward.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[ktk]

...then you agree, it will have a cost...

just leaves the cost of testing software, and time to actually do the upgrade

So we have 2,000 users many with legacy win XP program that work now.

Are you suggesting we take the time to upgrade then test our mission
critical software, and hope it works?

That will never happen, unless MS can assure us all our programs are
compatible going forward.

Don't hold your breath.

SHHHH!!! making your competitor smarter isnt going to work for your competiveness!!

keep em in the dark!!

 

[heatlesssun]

THIS. Several partners at my firm use Surface Pro 2s and 3s. I use a Dell Venue 8 pro, and I know of 4 others that do as well.

It's easy to bash Microsoft for big thigs they get wrong but it's a lot harder to see the subtle sucesses. When Windows 8 launched in 2012, good, affordable tablet hardware simply didn't exist. That situation has vastly improved. Intel deserves probably most of the credit with finally getting Atoms right with Bay Trail. Many of these devices pack a wallop in terms of functionality.

I just got a 10" Encore 2 Write. Sweet device. It uses the new Wacom active digitizer and it's of of the best hardwrititng tablets I've ever used, on par if not a little better than even the Surface Pro 3 for that purpose. Has an HDMI out and when connected to a monitor, its has enough performance to run desktop Office and any number of mainstream desktop apps. Not for desktop gaming though. But its a lot of computer in a 1.2 lbs pacakge with 10 hours of mixed use battery life.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

...then you agree, it will have a cost...

just leaves the cost of testing software, and time to actually do the upgrade

So we have 2,000 users many with legacy win XP program that work now.

Are you suggesting we take the time to upgrade then test our mission
critical software, and hope it works?

That will never happen, unless MS can assure us all our programs are
compatible going forward.

Don't hold your breath.

...all those Y2K era web apps replacing old mainframes with non standards compliant web apps...

I blame the CIO's who put those garbage systems in place in the first place. If a proper requirements document were used and a requirement for these systems were that they are fully cross platform web standards compliant we wouldn't be in this mess we are in today.

Sure, there would still need to be some testing, but it would be cake in comparison to the current condition.

I mean, its better now, as most of the systems that worked on IE6 and IE6 ONLY are gone by now, but there are still many deployments in win7 that retain IE7 and 8 for similar reasons, leaving their corporate wide deployments wide open to many vulnerabilities...

Too many companies put off the Y2K upgrades for too long and then last minute rushed mission critical non-standards compliant garbage web apps...

 

[ktk]

...all those Y2K era web apps replacing old mainframes with non standards compliant web apps...

I blame the CIO's who put those garbage systems in place in the first place. If a proper requirements document were used and a requirement for these systems were that they are fully cross platform web standards compliant we wouldn't be in this mess we are in today.

Sure, there would still need to be some testing, but it would be cake in comparison to the current condition.

I mean, its better now, as most of the systems that worked on IE6 and IE6 ONLY are gone by now, but there are still many deployments in win7 that retain IE7 and 8 for similar reasons, leaving their corporate wide deployments wide open to many vulnerabilities...

Too many companies put off the Y2K upgrades for too long and then last minute rushed mission critical non-standards compliant garbage web apps...

Thats server side problems imho.

You dont run linux on servers , the company is technically garbage imho.

 

[ktk]

I just got a 10" Encore 2 Write. Sweet device.

Wacom grade input in a 349 USD computer/tablet is gonna be a killer machine for those who actually draw / illustrate but the specs... I doubt the cpu/ram is enough for smoothness for running drawing programs on win 8.1 or 10 .

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Thats server side problems imho.

You dont run linux on servers , the company is technically garbage imho.

Clients talk to servers.

If the servers are set up to serve non standards compliant web apps, then the clients have to maintain compatibility with non standards compliant browsers, which may only run on older OS:es, etc. etc.

Stupidity all around.

The state of CIO's and corporate IT departments was one of major incompetency in the late 90's when all this foolishness was put in place, and due to the time and expense of re-validating and replacing it all, it just sits there and causes problems, kicking the can down the road until organizations have no other option but to deal with it.

 

[Exavior]

...then you agree, it will have a cost...

just leaves the cost of testing software, and time to actually do the upgrade

So we have 2,000 users many with legacy win XP program that work now.

Are you suggesting we take the time to upgrade then test our mission
critical software, and hope it works?

That will never happen, unless MS can assure us all our programs are
compatible going forward.

Don't hold your breath.

In a small way yes. However you are already getting paid for being at work correct? So there is no new cost to the company, It doesn't matter if you are testing software or jerking off to porn you are on the clock and thus the company is already spending money for you to be there. So there is no actual cost for this, only cost in theory due to man hours being allocated to a task. But work done on the clock is work done on the clock, you are already being paid.

As far as your software, yes if you are running all windows xp machines given that they no longer support software upgrades I would suggest that at some point you try the software on something newer, don't care if it is only windows 7. At some point you would want to upgrade for security reasons alone. That said if you are all the way back on XP there is no free upgrade for you so that doesn't matter anyone as you aren't part of what is being talked about here anyway. If you are on windows 7 or 8.1 where you would be able to get the upgrade for free then you are only looking at whatever you need to test and do the upgrade.

 

[mope54]

In a small way yes. However you are already getting paid for being at work correct? So there is no new cost to the company, It doesn't matter if you are testing software or jerking off to porn you are on the clock and thus the company is already spending money for you to be there. So there is no actual cost for this, only cost in theory due to man hours being allocated to a task. But work done on the clock is work done on the clock, you are already being paid.

As far as your software, yes if you are running all windows xp machines given that they no longer support software upgrades I would suggest that at some point you try the software on something newer, don't care if it is only windows 7. At some point you would want to upgrade for security reasons alone. That said if you are all the way back on XP there is no free upgrade for you so that doesn't matter anyone as you aren't part of what is being talked about here anyway. If you are on windows 7 or 8.1 where you would be able to get the upgrade for free then you are only looking at whatever you need to test and do the upgrade.

if they have thousands of clients they should be on a volume license scheme so the version of windows being used is irrelevant in terms of cost

 

[Exavior]

if they have thousands of clients they should be on a volume license scheme so the version of windows being used is irrelevant in terms of cost

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they had to pay for something. That said, if they are still on xp I doubt they are paying for software assurance as that would be a waste to pay for the software and never actually take the upgrades.

Given that I was use to the realm of around 100, all we ever had was volume license where we got a discount but still would pay more for the cost of buying a boxed upgrade copy. Only reason we went with the volume copies were that we got a single key. However that still only covered the one version. We would have needed to pay for software assurance for us to get the new copies. That said maybe they do still have some type of program for over 1000 where you just pay $x per year and get unlimited copies of everything or something.

 

[nilepez]

Huh? Not following why a company "has to start going 10 next year", perhaps you've never worked in IT or believe companies are going to BestBuy and picking up their computers there, then just tolerating whatever version of Windows comes with it the way consumers have to. Most companies typically maintain a standard desktop image that is then deployed to new hardware. The company decides which version of Windows they'll remain standardized on, not Microsoft marketing.

Windows 7 will continue to get updates until 2020, and probably beyond once big companies put pressure on MS the way they did with XP. Most companies are in absolutely no rush to run anything newer than 7, there's no compelling business case to run 8 or 10.

I've been in tech for decades, I've never had my drive re-imaged to put a new OS on it and I've worked at companies as small has a 100 and as large as 100,000. The OS was always upgraded when the H/W changed (even though they used a custom image). When I changed Departments, my OS often changed, because the H/W was newer (or occasionally older).

 

[nilepez]

Thats server side problems imho.

You dont run linux on servers , the company is technically garbage imho.

Is that a type-o? I know we run linux on servers.

 

[nilepez]

As far as your software, yes if you are running all windows xp machines given that they no longer support software upgrades I would suggest that at some point you try the software on something newer, don't care if it is only windows 7. At some point you would want to upgrade for security reasons alone.

Couldn't you run XP in a VM and run the app in that (in most cases)? That seems like a safer way to work than just using XP. I still have an XP VM to vpn to work from my machine. When I close the VM, no changes are saved. I only saved them if I logged in to patch the VM...which is unnecessary now.

 

[Exavior]

Couldn't you run XP in a VM and run the app in that (in most cases)? That seems like a safer way to work than just using XP. I still have an XP VM to vpn to work from my machine. When I close the VM, no changes are saved. I only saved them if I logged in to patch the VM...which is unnecessary now.

If you are using windows 7, yes there is XP mode. if a program doesn't actually need access to the internet you can run a program from there and block the VM's ability to get online. Still leave a few security holes as you could get infected by something on windows 7 that is only able to do a small amount but then spreads to the XP machine and while it can't get online is able to infect more of the system and possibility give it more access to the domain.

That is scary though that you are using XP to connect to a VPN. Almost curious to know what software you guys are running that it wouldn't support a newer OS so that you can actually use a secure OS to connect to the company network.

 

[msny]

In a small way yes. However you are already getting paid for being at work correct? So there is no new cost to the company, It doesn't matter if you are testing software or jerking off to porn you are on the clock and thus the company is already spending money for you to be there. So there is no actual cost for this, only cost in theory due to man hours being allocated to a task. But work done on the clock is work done on the clock, you are already being paid.

As far as your software, yes if you are running all windows xp machines given that they no longer support software upgrades I would suggest that at some point you try the software on something newer, don't care if it is only windows 7. At some point you would want to upgrade for security reasons alone. That said if you are all the way back on XP there is no free upgrade for you so that doesn't matter anyone as you aren't part of what is being talked about here anyway. If you are on windows 7 or 8.1 where you would be able to get the upgrade for free then you are only looking at whatever you need to test and do the upgrade.

Your answer is a standard one for IT people.
We don't really produce product, were there only for support issues
and nothing else is relevant.

However that is not always the case. Since I'm a developer, I do produce
value added programs for our users. I can spend time doing mundane upgrades
or I can assist users in helping to interpret data they need on a daily basis.

If I can't help our users create better value added programs, then there is
an additional cost to the organization in the long term.

Years ago when we upgraded from Win 95 to Win XP we hired some
robot monkey kids and paid them $5 an hour to be robot installers.

Believe me, at my salary, they would never have me doing the same thing.

 

[nilepez]

If you are using windows 7, yes there is XP mode. if a program doesn't actually need access to the internet you can run a program from there and block the VM's ability to get online. Still leave a few security holes as you could get infected by something on windows 7 that is only able to do a small amount but then spreads to the XP machine and while it can't get online is able to infect more of the system and possibility give it more access to the domain.

That is scary though that you are using XP to connect to a VPN. Almost curious to know what software you guys are running that it wouldn't support a newer OS so that you can actually use a secure OS to connect to the company network.

I think it was juniper. I used it, because the VPN cut off my access to my network. A VM was my solution around it. It had access to the internet, but I used it exclusively to VPN to work and when I was done, I'd exit out without saving any changes. I guess it could make my 7 install vulnerable, but unless there was malware that bypassed the undo file and wrote directly to the VHD, I think I was safe.

I probably should have changed it to a 7VM, but I didn't feel like eating one of my licenses to do it and work wasn't offering me one.

 

[Exavior]

Your answer is a standard one for IT people.
We don't really produce product, were there only for support issues
and nothing else is relevant.

However that is not always the case. Since I'm a developer, I do produce
value added programs for our users. I can spend time doing mundane upgrades
or I can assist users in helping to interpret data they need on a daily basis.

If I can't help our users create better value added programs, then there is
an additional cost to the organization in the long term.

Years ago when we upgraded from Win 95 to Win XP we hired some
robot monkey kids and paid them $5 an hour to be robot installers.

Believe me, at my salary, they would never have me doing the same thing.

We are talking about the end user so yes that is all we care about. Sorry that we aren't taking into consideration that by us upgrading software or buying a new video card, or motherboard that means that somebody has to actually spend time and make software that will run on the new OS and will have to write new drivers for the new hardware.

But that is part of software development. If you really were creating value added services then you would be improving your software to work on new hardware and software and not forcing people to never update or upgrade a single piece of hardware or software that they have on / in their computer ever again. Locking somebody down to their current configuration till the end of time is not value added. That is limiting said user. Sorry, our software only supports windows 3.1 on a 100mhz cpu and 2Mb of ram. Don't ever upgrade your hardware or software because then we will be forced to actually spend time making a change to our software and that would be 100% unacceptable.

And in this case if you were actually on a more current version of windows, being able to upgrade from 7 or 8 through windows update actually saves you that $5 / hr for the kids and all you do is tell WSUS to push out the new update and the next morning you come in and all computers are at windows 10. so that requires no work for anyone other than the person that clicked the button to accept the update to be pushed through windows update or whatever is needed for the update to be pulled through that. Maybe you have to apply a single file to run on login through group policy. Regardless if people were able to upgrade from windows 7 through windows update for the tech preview, can't be anything that a competent person in charge of a network couldn't do in less than 3 minutes of prep.

At the same time, based on your reply it doesn't sound like you are in IT or in charge of supporting the computers in your company thus your reply is worthless from the start as you wouldn't be involved in any support to begin with any more than the CEO of the company would. So we might as well take their role and pay into consideration and try to explain why they throw off the view of upgrading anything.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Is that a type-o? I know we run linux on servers.

I'm with you.

Any server I run is Linux or BSD based.

Wouldn't let anything Microsoft anywhere near a server of mine. Its fine for clients, but...

 

[nilepez]

I'm with you.

Any server I run is Linux or BSD based.

Wouldn't let anything Microsoft anywhere near a server of mine. Its fine for clients, but...

AFAIK, if you're running Exchange, you're running Windows Server, but otherwise, everything at works is some form of *nix (mostly Linux). Of course there are plenty of MS shops out there. Truthfully, there is no finer IDE than Visual Studio. I've never used it for production work, but I'll take it over Eclipse anytime....if only it supported the languages we use.

 

[msny]

We are talking about the end user so yes that is all we care about. Sorry that we aren't taking into consideration that by us upgrading software or buying a new video card, or motherboard that means that somebody has to actually spend time and make software that will run on the new OS and will have to write new drivers for the new hardware.

But that is part of software development. If you really were creating value added services then you would be improving your software to work on new hardware and software and not forcing people to never update or upgrade a single piece of hardware or software that they have on / in their computer ever again. Locking somebody down to their current configuration till the end of time is not value added. That is limiting said user. Sorry, our software only supports windows 3.1 on a 100mhz cpu and 2Mb of ram. Don't ever upgrade your hardware or software because then we will be forced to actually spend time making a change to our software and that would be 100% unacceptable.

And in this case if you were actually on a more current version of windows, being able to upgrade from 7 or 8 through windows update actually saves you that $5 / hr for the kids and all you do is tell WSUS to push out the new update and the next morning you come in and all computers are at windows 10. so that requires no work for anyone other than the person that clicked the button to accept the update to be pushed through windows update or whatever is needed for the update to be pulled through that. Maybe you have to apply a single file to run on login through group policy. Regardless if people were able to upgrade from windows 7 through windows update for the tech preview, can't be anything that a competent person in charge of a network couldn't do in less than 3 minutes of prep.

At the same time, based on your reply it doesn't sound like you are in IT or in charge of supporting the computers in your company thus your reply is worthless from the start as you wouldn't be involved in any support to begin with any more than the CEO of the company would. So we might as well take their role and pay into consideration and try to explain why they throw off the view of upgrading anything.

You have no idea how an IT department really works then, that is apparent.
Everyone has a role to play, my role is very specific. I work on an IBM
mainframe, and create GUI applications at the PC level. We do have a lower level
PC Maintenance person that does daily computer tasks for our users.
We also have a lot of packaged software from many vendors. It would cost
a lot to upgrade them all just to satisfy the OS. We do this incrementally
when financially feasible, and different departments sign off.

Since you don't seem to understand how our organization works, which is
a very close to the rest of the industry, what you saying is irrelevant to the
discussion.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

AFAIK, if you're running Exchange, you're running Windows Server, but otherwise, everything at works is some form of *nix (mostly Linux).

I know, the prevalence of Exchange is a disappointment...

Truthfully, there is no finer IDE than Visual Studio. I've never used it for production work, but I'll take it over Eclipse anytime....if only it supported the languages we use.

I don't program at all, so I have no personal experience, a good friend of mine who develops software professionally would have burst out laughing at even calling Visual Studio "Good" let alone the best.

He tends to consider it absolute garbage, and I trust his judgment on these matters

I guess different people have different requirements and preferences

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't program at all, so I have no personal experience, a good friend of mine who develops software professionally would have burst out laughing at even calling Visual Studio "Good" let alone the best.

I'd say that overall VS is very well regarded. Microsoft has done a very good job on integrating a lot of features into it and it's very extensible. Modern IDEs are extraordinarily complex, very few developers will ever use or even be aware of everything they can do.

 

[msny]

I'd say that overall VS is very well regarded. Microsoft has done a very good job on integrating a lot of features into it and it's very extensible. Modern IDEs are extraordinarily complex, very few developers will ever use or even be aware of everything they can do.

VB 6 was garbage for sure, however since VS2005 and the intro of the
.NET Framework, VS has evolved into a great developers tool.

I'd say VS 2012 was a turning point.

 

[Deleted member 80813]

Will this be available on disk? I know a lot of people will not be able to do a download of several GB because of bandwidth caps and slow connections.

 

[Modred189]

Will this be available on disk? I know a lot of people will not be able to do a download of several GB because of bandwidth caps and slow connections.

I'm sorry, but that's horsecrap. First, OSX has been download only or mostly download for years. Second, caps are measured in the hundreds (usually around 250gb), even if you downloaded the OS unpacked and uncompressed, you're only talking 30gb or less.

 

[blackacidevil]

I'm sorry, but that's horsecrap. First, OSX has been download only or mostly download for years. Second, caps are measured in the hundreds (usually around 250gb), even if you downloaded the OS unpacked and uncompressed, you're only talking 30gb or less.

'
you're assuming that he and/or his friends are on some high speed internet plan. what about people living in rural areas that only have lower-tier internet options? For example, satellite internet is available in Ontario for those without access to broadband, and they charge $50 a month for 5mbps download with 25GB monthly data. DLing Windows would take a very long time, and eat all their bandwidth, plus some.

 

[Modred189]

I suspect that the kind of person doing an OS upgrade does not have that kind of internet. Besides, it will likely take more than a month to download, lol, no cap threatened.

 

[Deleted member 80813]

I have high speed and no cap. So big downloads are no problem for me. I am just reflecting back to the WTF outburst when Blizzard released a nice 10+GB 'update' for DiabloIII last spring.

 

[nilepez]

Will this be available on disk? I know a lot of people will not be able to do a download of several GB because of bandwidth caps and slow connections.

I don't know if they offer it now or not, but MS has offered Disks for 10-15 bucks in the past. Don't think I've bought one since Vista.

If you don't have High speed internet, I'd suggest asking a relative (or someone you trust) that does to download the ISO from MS, and burn it to a DVD (or whatever media is required) and ship it to you.

But honestly, it's a long way off. We're not even at Beta 1 yet, AFAICT.

 

[heatlesssun]

But honestly, it's a long way off. We're not even at Beta 1 yet, AFAICT.

Not that far off according to many rumors that are saying a June to July timeframe. That seems ambitious but I don't see this going much past that.

 

[Parmenides]

VB 6 was garbage for sure, however since VS2005 and the intro of the
.NET Framework, VS has evolved into a great developers tool.

I'd say VS 2012 was a turning point.

really? I thought 2010 was pretty solid in it's day too.

 

[nilepez]

Not that far off according to many rumors that are saying a June to July timeframe. That seems ambitious but I don't see this going much past that.

June-July for Beta 1 or for a 10 release?

 

[Unklave]

I will get Windows 10 as an Upgrade for Windows 7. Hope it goes a good way.

 

[Ryokurin]

But honestly, it's a long way off. We're not even at Beta 1 yet, AFAICT.

While they have talked about a consumer and developer preview in the past, it's looking more and more like they will continue to periodically release builds and the previews will just be periods where they will discuss their strategy towards the two groups.

Unless they are expecting OEMs to prepare with specific builds, history shows that they would have to be finished by at least early August to make a late fall launch date.

 

[nilepez]

While they have talked about a consumer and developer preview in the past, it's looking more and more like they will continue to periodically release builds and the previews will just be periods where they will discuss their strategy towards the two groups.

Unless they are expecting OEMs to prepare with specific builds, history shows that they would have to be finished by at least early August to make a late fall launch date.

Not sure what's necessary, but 8 was 8/2, which I think was on the late side. 7 was sometime in July, as I recall.

I guess if they're not doing actual consumer previews (beta) and release previews (RC), then this year is doable. I'd like to see an actual RC. I generally avoid the Betas (had issues with dual booting 7 and Vista, though I guess I could do a VM).